Range Wilderness Debate

[Conorscool]

Hello, I hope you enjoy this debate as I seem to enjoy these alot. I would like YOUR point of view, not just the way the debate swings point of view, this would benifit everyone, kind of anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well anyway this is my opinion on the matter...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Karils

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well I'm sure that everyone find that agility really helps them in combat situations. No seriously if someone can find a serious use for this effect I will actually eat my own hat, I see no use for this effect other than for getting cakes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The coif is well, pathetic to put it one way. It claims to be a coif and facemask, trust me it doesn't work in the smokey well. Anyway the range attack bonus on it is quite pathetic, only +3, to put that into perspective you could wear half an archer helm to get the same attack bonus, and it would require lower levels aswell.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The armour is okay but i believe it gives 35 bonus less than black dragonhide, this includes the attack bonuses. Although I'm sure it is useful against jellies and abberant spectres I don't see much use in the whole set myself. Really this needs completly re-working, there isn't a way around it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Magic Shortbow

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well being perfectly honest this is more about the lack of ko power than just the magic shortbow special. The bow itself was in need of nerfing, it probably still would be if it had two specials now, but if a new bow were made that required something like a quest requiring 55 herblore with two specials would that be overpowered? In my opinon it wouldn't as pures would find it very hard to get hold of. It would be even better if the bow was high level aswell.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well as of now I believe range is lacking in ko ability, there is the msb special, which is quite hard to time right and that's about it for specials with ko. All that is needed is a level 70 bow requiring a quest or a defence level, and it has two specials that can ko.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Crossbows

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well these were great... for the first minute. The actual chance of hitting a 50 is the same as getting a d chain from dust devils, this has been tested. At one special every 30 shots as an average and the speed of a battleaxe the crossbow is hardly a weapon of choice. It averages at one special every 90 seconds I believe, thats one and a half minutes, and most fights last around that time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Basically the thing I see wrong with these is the speed, i'm fine with the special effects and everything apart from the speed, I don't even mind the inaccuracy. The speed as i see it needs only to be sped up to match or be a tiny bit worse than the other crossbows, not the metal ones.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Updates

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well most of these were cruel mockeries, I believe crossbows were the only actual effort made by jagex to sort something out last year, after that I think they just churned out the range updates every now and then to slow the flow of range rants on the official forums.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway not alot to say here. They just need to give out some nice updates once in a while, like the warriors guild, whip and ancients, to name a few.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Range Guild

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This...This Thing is a mess, it doesn't deserve to be called a guild. Seriously it is pathetic, the only thing worth getting in there is the rune throwing axe is you're going to the DKs. It could really do with a nice dungeon requiring 60 range to enter, and a nice level 70 bow could be included to it, after doing a rather tedious mini-game of course.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Longbows

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are well, obsolite, they can't shoot as far as composite bows, they don't have as much accuracy as composite bows, they do the same damage and shoot at the same speed i believe, they even have the same special!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well really longbows should shoot further and be more powerful than the composite bows and a tiny bit slower, not much really to say about this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In conclusion

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

• Range guild is in need of a dungeon
   
   
   
  Karils needs a new effect and a better coif
   
   
   
  Crossbows need to be sped up
   
   
   
  Range needs more useful updates and less worthless updates
   
   
   
  Range needs a bow that can ko better than the msb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So my verdict it: Range - Neglected, not underpowered.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To back it up i decided to add the following.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://[scam site]/lang/en/aff/runescape/id/-7567305540989682370/vote.cgi?pollid=124

[Fat_Slug]

you forgot to mention the crystal bow, which some people have said they feel is overpowered

[Conorscool]

Wow, I never knew that, personally I haven't used it for pking, i might give it a try, thanks :

[armadillo48]

Cbows bad for pking as it's too slow although it does hit nice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like karils the way it is as i never use full barrows sets so much and crossbows are slow but have effects, so i think are ok atm.

[killer4hire1]

I agree that the ranged attack bonus of Karil's Coif need to be fixed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are currently 9 ranged helms (7 P2P, 2 F2P) and the only ones with a lower ranged attack bonus are the 2 F2p helms, thats just sad.

[lordkrohn1626]

Well I am far from the authority on range, as I have always hated it, it would still be 40 if I wasn't tired of getting smack about it being so low for my level. Never understood the fascination with it...2-3 mins plucking a bow, or I can just smash you with 1-3 hits of melee...same kill :XD:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

anywho...I used darts and knives as they give sick exp rate per hour when I trained it to 75 or so....and now I use one of my 7 crystal bows for whenever I fall on my head and want to work on my slacking level a bit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so i guess i prefer crystal. good speed and damage, cheap to

[Evil_Sabre]

totally agree with karils this effect is so pointless i swear it could only be worse if it lowered your own range level, its pathetic. The range bonus is the same as d hide which is what 50k at the most? and i agree with just about every other point you have made on this topic

[Einsteven]

I know this is not completely related to the topic, and that I've posted this else where, but here's my 2 cents, gp or what ever on the situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rangers in F2P's are in my opinion the worst set of combat skills compared to melee and magic. In comparison, F2P rangers are completely disadvantaged by the lack of ability to train the skill up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Melee armour and weapons (all of them) can be made by F2P players, severely reducing the cost of these things. As well, they are more of a one shot/lump sum spending, where you spend 200k and you buy a set of full runes, and don't have to buy them again. In terms of food and strength pots, which are the melee player's consumable equipments, one can make them as well as a F2P's or, in the case of strength pots, made for 5gp and 2 relatively easy to obtain raw material.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mages are at a slight disadvantage compared to melee fighters, since they have no advanced armours that F2P's can obtain. However, compared to rangers, they can make the most elementary runes easily for training, and therefore, they can train for free. As well, since melee combating is the most popular form of combat in the wilderness, mages are also at the advantage in the wilderness in terms of easy "bind" "death rune attack" "kill" "reap in loot" cycle that allows them to earn money, in comparison, at ease, and therefore, not worry about lacking money to buy more supplies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now focusing on archers, we see that it costs immensely to train. At early stages, one can use the crossbow at a cost of 1gp per bolt, but that only does so much. If people were to use more advanced arrows to train, the prices rapidly increase, with bronze arrows at a cost of 6gp each, and iron at 20 - 40gp each. Compare that cost with the free fire strikes. As well, rangers are a tough combat type to pk with. They have lower defence then melee combat, and they are only strong against mages and other rangers. But in comparison, there lacks a high amount of mages in the wilderness, resulting in less successful pking trips. Needless to mention, rangers lack the actual ranging as they almost always fight in close combat, resulting in their heavy need for food (lower defence means more food consumption as well). Also, seeing as how mages normally don't carry a great deal of runes while pking (a 100 death and nats at most?), the rewards aren't great. Finally, in pointing out the obvious, rangers in comparison with mages and melee's, are seriously under powered. Adament arrows, which might I add are hell expensive and breakable, do not do as much damage at say level 70, as a fire blast at level 59 (12 damage and 16 damage respectively, no prayers). A level 70 combat with 50+ strength level can do 15 minimum with a rune battle axe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In conclusion, what is my point? Well, you wanted opinions on rangers. I find that they are under "funded" by Jagex, and this lack of attention leads to an unbalance in the F2P world. It is almost impossible to start of as a ranger, since one almost MUST have a few friends around that are either members and can fletch arrows for a lower price, good melee fighters to protect them in the wildy, and have a constant flow of cash. I suggest, to balance this, F2P's should be allowed to craft the most primary (bronze, iron) arrows, OR offered a wider variety of weapons (more then just the bronze crossbow) and/or armour, OR be given a place to train for a lower cost. Notice i emphasize "OR". I have no intention of making this a "should F2P's have updates" debate, i simply state some possibilities of making rangers a more appealing class to pk as.

[Conorscool]

Yep i just noticed something, rangers have to train 7 skills to get all of their weapons armour and ammo, yet they have the least variety of weapons, the number of skills needed is over double what melee needs. :?

[Kiriyama]

Seercull bow spec is too underpowered. Oh wow it reduces mage level, where does that help? Cwars, fight pits, anywhere else? Honestly the only thing that could make that spec worse is if it gave your target a few mage levels.

[Huta]

... As well, since melee combating is the most popular form of combat in the wilderness, mages are also at the advantage in the wilderness in terms of easy "bind" "death rune attack" "kill" "reap in loot" cycle that allows them to earn money, in comparison, at ease, and therefore, not worry about lacking money to buy more supplies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, I'm going to have to stop you here. I used to be f2p, and pking as a mage SUCKS. A 5 second bind is not useful for anything but stopping runners and escaping. The traditional snare 'n' attack used by traditional mages is a joke with bind. A mage has no choice but to fight up front, and with a pathetic 16 max (16? I can punch that.) and no armor, you won't last long doing that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now focusing on archers, we see that it costs immensely to train. At early stages, one can use the crossbow at a cost of 1gp per bolt, but that only does so much. If people were to use more advanced arrows to train, the prices rapidly increase, with bronze arrows at a cost of 6gp each, and iron at 20 - 40gp each. Compare that cost with the free fire strikes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Free fire strike? Are you kidding? Not only is that the worst way to train magic, the only way it could be "free" is to runecraft, and the amount of time it takes to get those supplies is crazy. If you seriously believe mages get easy training through runecrafting firestrikes, you shouldn't be complaining. Thinking that way, you're in ranger heaven ranging minotaurs. Done right, you'll never run out of arrows there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Also, seeing as how mages normally don't carry a great deal of runes while pking (a 100 death and nats at most?), the rewards aren't great. Finally, in pointing out the obvious, rangers in comparison with mages and melee's, are seriously under powered. Adament arrows, which might I add are hell expensive and breakable, do not do as much damage at say level 70, as a fire blast at level 59 (12 damage and 16 damage respectively, no prayers). A level 70 combat with 50+ strength level can do 15 minimum with a rune battle axe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not going to say much here, other than the fact that a ranger on rapid hits twice as fast as a mage. And pking with a rune baxe is just stupid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Second, 100 deaths hovers around 30k, and 100 natures about the same. That's 60k in your inventory, and you won't keep any of that if you die. A ranger wears greenhides (15k for set? And you can protect that, unlike stackable runes.), a worthless maple bow, and maybe a power ammy. If he's brave. A meleer takes 240k+ out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't get me started about how "expensive" addy arrows are. At leat you get to reuse them. When was the last time you saw a mage reusing their 400gp plus blasts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In conclusion, what is my point? Well, you wanted opinions on rangers. I find that they are under "funded" by Jagex, and this lack of attention leads to an unbalance in the F2P world. It is almost impossible to start of as a ranger, since one almost MUST have a few friends around that are either members and can fletch arrows for a lower price, good melee fighters to protect them in the wildy, and have a constant flow of cash. I suggest, to balance this, F2P's should be allowed to craft the most primary (bronze, iron) arrows, OR offered a wider variety of weapons (more then just the bronze crossbow) and/or armour, OR be given a place to train for a lower cost. Notice i emphasize "OR". I have no intention of making this a "should F2P's have updates" debate, i simply state some possibilities of making rangers a more appealing class to pk as.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One; get members.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Two; mages have the same problem in f2p, unless they like pking with firestrike.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Three; you do have places to train for cheap. Just find them. (I know I did when I was f2p)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and four; Ranged is more balanced in f2p than p2p. You think its bad there? Just wait. F2p is currently the peak of ranged.

[GrimHams]

I agree, i've been ranging since there was the double spec, i have to admit that range was overpowered compared to the melee/mage stuff that existed at the time. But as melee has become more powerful lately as well as mage a double msb spec wouldn't overpower rangers too much. In a perfect world i'd like a new bow to replace the msb, i'd be happy to fork out a couple mill for it if i could have a new bow to play with, also white dragonhide would be good.

[Danqazmlp]

karils armour is the BEST magic defence in the game, the range attack bonus is the same as black dhide, so against mages there is nothing better, and that's what range is supposed to be used for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my oppinion karils is fine the way it is, the x-bow is incredibly good, although slightly expensive to use.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think people are fogetting what rang is supposed to be used for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Range>mage>melee>range

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Range isn't supposed to be used against melee'rs, so using its abilities against them isnt a good idea to get an evaluation on the equiptment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Test it out versus mages and almost all the range items you have mentioned are great.

[mr_nub_nub]

Hey dont forget with the karils spec, if your fighting eith a full set chances are u fighting some1 hows not a pure, low agil means lower energy restore, ect., meaning its harder for them to run.

[zubeedoo]

I know this is not completely related to the topic, and that I've posted this else where, but here's my 2 cents, gp or what ever on the situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rangers in F2P's are in my opinion the worst set of combat skills compared to melee and magic. In comparison, F2P rangers are completely disadvantaged by the lack of ability to train the skill up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pure f2per here, and one with 80 range (my only higher lvl is mining at 86) So as I have a bit of experience with range, I feel the need to point out a few flaws in what you're saying

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Melee armour and weapons (all of them) can be made by F2P players, severely reducing the cost of these things. As well, they are more of a one shot/lump sum spending, where you spend 200k and you buy a set of full runes, and don't have to buy them again. In terms of food and strength pots, which are the melee player's consumable equipments, one can make them as well as a F2P's or, in the case of strength pots, made for 5gp and 2 relatively easy to obtain raw material.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all:

 

 

 

How many f2pers do you know that can make full rune? I myself no one (and then only because he was one of my bulk suppliers when I was merchanting the stuff), it's not very common. The only reason rune prices have dropped is because of the sheer number of members who get them from monsters. (well there may be others, but that's the main one)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next: Though it is true that most comsumable items used by melee and mage can be made or gathered in f2p, the real question here is is it efficient to do so? Typically speaking it makes more sense to do whatever you do to earn money and just buy the stuff. Hmmm...how do I explain this...

 

 

 

Ok, let's say you can mine coal and sell it at a rate of 100k an hour. You need lobsters. You could go and fish it yourself, but as you're not as good a fisher as you are a miner you'd only be gathering 50k worth of lobs an hour. Plus you wouldn't enjoy it as much. Because of this most people stick with what they're good at, and just sell and buy till they have all they need. Arrows aren't as expensive as you seem to think (30gp is about where steel sits in price ranges, iron is closer to 15-20)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When I began training my mage I'd just got my range to 80, my mage was like 50 at the time and I was shocked at just how much it was going to cost me to get to lvl 67 (it was something to the tune of 3mil with fire blast [which is what I used], and like a mil and a half for lower end runes). It was going to cost me more then I'd spent getting my range from 70-80 (I spent a mil at the most on arrows). The ONLY dissadvantage range has in terms of training is the time. Training range is very, very slow, but very, very much worth it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mages are at a slight disadvantage compared to melee fighters, since they have no advanced armours that F2P's can obtain. However, compared to rangers, they can make the most elementary runes easily for training, and therefore, they can train for free. As well, since melee combating is the most popular form of combat in the wilderness, mages are also at the advantage in the wilderness in terms of easy "bind" "death rune attack" "kill" "reap in loot" cycle that allows them to earn money, in comparison, at ease, and therefore, not worry about lacking money to buy more supplies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm guessing that you've never been introduced to the concept of time=money. If you spend 2 hours gathering ess and making runes (which btw will not last you very long, mining ess and rcing is a long boreing process in f2p) and I spend 2 hours merchanting and then buying runes, who do you think will have more runes? Let's say I made 250k an hour merchanting (which is about what I DID make), that's going to give me half a mil to spend on runes (time bought runes won't be counted as I merchant in W1 not a full screen away from the people merchanting runes). Now even at my mining level I couldn't come anywhere CLOSE to that amount in rune ess.

 

 

 

let's say I need 2 airs and 1 mind per spell.

 

 

 

15gp+20gp+20gp= 55gp (and that's if I'm generous or desperate for runes, it's usually a bit less)

 

 

 

That's about 9000 spells I can now cast, doing something that requires no levels at all (just one set of full rune and some typing)

 

 

 

Do you think you could mine and craft enough runes to do that in a couple hours? at 86/40something mining/rcing, I know I couldn't...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now focusing on archers, we see that it costs immensely to train. At early stages, one can use the crossbow at a cost of 1gp per bolt, but that only does so much. If people were to use more advanced arrows to train, the prices rapidly increase, with bronze arrows at a cost of 6gp each, and iron at 20 - 40gp each. Compare that cost with the free fire strikes.

 

 

 

Again, they're not free, you just choose to spend your time rather then your money getting them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As well, rangers are a tough combat type to pk with. They have lower defence then melee combat, and they are only strong against mages and other rangers. But in comparison, there lacks a high amount of mages in the wilderness, resulting in less successful pking trips. Needless to mention, rangers lack the actual ranging as they almost always fight in close combat, resulting in their heavy need for food (lower defence means more food consumption as well).

 

 

 

I've pked with range before, don't knock it till you try it. Mages go down like nothing, and contrary to popular belief meleers don't have this unbeatable advantage over range. If your opponent is a pvp enthusiast (high str low def) you should be able to win. I've beaten plenty of people my level with range vs melee, so it is doable. It's the meleers with high defence that you need to worry about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, seeing as how mages normally don't carry a great deal of runes while pking (a 100 death and nats at most?), the rewards aren't great. Finally, in pointing out the obvious, rangers in comparison with mages and melee's, are seriously under powered. Adament arrows, which might I add are hell expensive and breakable, do not do as much damage at say level 70, as a fire blast at level 59 (12 damage and 16 damage respectively, no prayers). A level 70 combat with 50+ strength level can do 15 minimum with a rune battle axe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) The same could be said for range: How many arrows do you bother brinign into the wildy? Low risk for low reward.

 

 

 

2)You seem to forget an important fact: Mage hits very slowly, about half as fast as range (maybe less). If I can hit 2 12's in the time it takes you to hit 1 16, who's really hitting more?

 

 

 

Same can be said for melee, but I can say without the slightest doubt in my mind that defence/armor aside, range hits higher then any other attack type in f2p. Also, you neglect to mention PvE in this "range sucks" rant. At 80 range I beat anyone combat 110 or lower to kills (assuming we're in a multi-zone, otherwise I'd be beating everyone who's not ranging :P ) Range>Everything else in PvE (for f2p anyway)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In conclusion, what is my point? Well, you wanted opinions on rangers. I find that they are under "funded" by Jagex, and this lack of attention leads to an unbalance in the F2P world. It is almost impossible to start of as a ranger, since one almost MUST have a few friends around that are either members and can fletch arrows for a lower price, good melee fighters to protect them in the wildy, and have a constant flow of cash. I suggest, to balance this, F2P's should be allowed to craft the most primary (bronze, iron) arrows, OR offered a wider variety of weapons (more then just the bronze crossbow) and/or armour, OR be given a place to train for a lower cost. Notice i emphasize "OR". I have no intention of making this a "should F2P's have updates" debate, i simply state some possibilities of making rangers a more appealing class to pk as.

 

 

 

I will partially agree here. IMO f2p rangers should get rune arrows+yew bows and the ability to make up to iron arrows. I also think that f2pers should get the second bind spell (snare I think it's called, I always forget which is which)

 

 

 

Not so much because I feel they have any massive need for it, but because the wildy is VERY boring with people fighting each other in full rune ith scimmies. Takes like 10 minutes to finish a damn fight. So few people use mage and even fewer use range when pking, so IMO jagex needs to do something to make them more appealing.

[dead_socks]

ON THE RANGING GUILD:

 

 

 

I have seen more people die there than go up levels. It's not really valid as a meeting place, a ranging supply shop or a training spot. The target-shooting game appears to depend purely on chance, and the tickets do not contribute towards rare or even useful items. As the arrows used are bronze, you'd probably get faster exp throwing rotten tomatoes in the duel arena.

 

 

 

The game upstairs doesn't provide any system of arrow return, simply a fast death for those who neglect their defense level. I'm not made of ammo, the cost of ranging is always on my mind. (I couldn't shoot an onyx bolt. I'd make it a little tuxedo and store it in a safety deposit box...)

 

 

 

Compare this to any other guild (I'd give a specific example if I wasn't a noob unable to enter half of them :P) and the facilities they provide...

[Stewie_Griffen]

I agree about Karils, and instead of another level 70 bow, why not a level 60 bow that needs a complicated quest? The requirements could be Lunar Diplomacy and Fairy Tale pt2. There goes most the people who would abuse it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Crossbows all need to be increased to the speed of the Hunter Crossbow. I saw it in Pest Control and it had a reasonable rate of fire. The range guild should just be deleted and replaced with a new one. Besides the axes, it's only used to lure people under the archers and kill them.

[Vindetta]

Here's my outlook on everything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Only bow worth using is mage short or crystal. Crystal is one of the most expensive weapons in the game, considering you need 900k to charge the first time, and you must keep charging. Also the only designated training area for rang is that lame lathes place where you can shoot ogres. Where as you can go to the mage arena and receive free runes, and good xp, or the warriors guild and also get "free" xp, and aditional armor/wep (whatever you want to cosider the defender).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Ever thought about how low the max hit of rang is IF you were to acomplish 99 rang? Not high (I beleive its possible to hit 38) where as mages can hit 30's on 16 enimies with one cast... not only that it but the openant is now stuck for 20 seconds. And acording to tipit's calculator it is possible under the correct circumstances (with str ammy and rune def and right armor) to hit a 79, at lvl 99 strength.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Weaponry is sssssad. sad. Rang has 4 bows with a special. And these specails don't really efect much. Compaired to the dds's 2 hit attack that drains only 20% of special i think we should be asking if its to powerful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. Well, i'm not going to rant about this one, guild just stinks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My conclusion is Rang is outdated and left behind. Magic can now teleport you places, a friend can heal you or restore your energy with magic. You can freeze, lower stats, and poisen others with it. Melee, constantly getting new weapons with greater power, new things to give it bonuses and reciving the best guilds/training areas. Being equiped with the fastest weapon, or the most punishing axes is making it easy for someone with a dds to run up and kill you. Rang? Whens the last time it got a quest? Or an update or new armor or a weapon worth talking about.

[Conorscool]

I agree about Karils, and instead of another level 70 bow, why not a level 60 bow that needs a complicated quest? The requirements could be Lunar Diplomacy and Fairy Tale pt2. There goes most the people who would abuse it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Crossbows all need to be increased to the speed of the Hunter Crossbow. I saw it in Pest Control and it had a reasonable rate of fire. The range guild should just be deleted and replaced with a new one. Besides the axes, it's only used to lure people under the archers and kill them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well i've actually made a suggestion, it does require alot and im pretty sure will prevent most of those players using it, click the link in my signature for the return of zaros, it did take a while to sort out aswell.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeh since the nerfing of it's special it's becoming less used for DKs :-k

[pulli23]

you forgot to add the recently hunter items..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

chinchompas and salamanders..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

about chinchompas I've heard they're very great for training.. and about salamanders I heard they hit pretty decent (though I don't hear anything about these anymore).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But I don't have very much experience with using ranging in combat situations. (only in f2p where it's overpowered in fact, but that shouldn't be discussed here).

[Wachtwoord]

First; you should change the title to: "range wildy debate".

 

 

 

I really wonder, why do all the "total" range debats go about the widly? As far as my experience goes, range totally owns mages in castle wars (not to mention the seercul special on someone who just very proudly got 94 mage), karils armour has the best mage defence bonus in the whole game, crystal bow totally owns all npc's (ex. it's the most cost/time efficient to use on blue dragons, it rips through ahrims at barrows, etc.), I hit pretty decent with just steel arrows at all my slayer tasks, do I need to go on?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But because you want this debate to be about pvp only and my experience about that is not deeper then just quite a lot of castle wars games, I can't add any constructive anymore.

[Vindetta]

you forgot to add the recently hunter items..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

chinchompas and salamanders..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

about chinchompas I've heard they're very great for training.. and about salamanders I heard they hit pretty decent (though I don't hear anything about these anymore).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

chinchomas pretty much stink, they hit low and are slow. Salamanders are even worse for xp/speed.