nightzero

but if you were member, would your answer be the same?

Well, then that's Jagex's decision to make from a business perspective. Regardless, the people who are getting the free game are owed nothing, deserve nothing, and have no right to complain about anything. Remember that they *could* make it a time-limited demo like most other games are. Ads actually do pay money, let me give you an example. Google is one of the most succesful companies in the world. Their entire revenue is from ads. Also if rs f2p was a limited time demo, i know many people including me would have never become members. And its not like f2p have so much to do anyway, compared to members its not even close. and dont bash me on being a "freeloader" just check my stats. Obviously hd will be f2p because if it wasnt that would be a horrible move on jagex's part.

Not sure about the rest of you, but this little line here raises a few red flags for me... Isnt doing things for others the definition of good or some likewise nonsense? I dont remember runescape being the pinacle of kindnass and comradery, but if the point of raising skills to 99 in the end benifits the community more than yourself, isnt that a good thing all around? selflessness and valour and.. whatever else Ghandi was knocking on about back in the day. I mean yeah, great if you want some perks for yourself, but you do have access to.. everything? whats so horrible about that, if you have 99 in a refining skill, chances are you have 99 in the prerequisite skill too, meaning you can be self sufficient, or just make ridiculous amounts of money with the latter (being the prerequisite skill) and do what you need to with the former (the refining skill). All in all, dont be greedy, we have more than enough of that. PS- im not flaming you for saying this, so dont be offended, im just stating some socialogical fact-ish things. so is having a spottier cape being greedy? how about a fire cape? rune defender? slayer helmet? maybe he didnt word it right, he means to have some benefits that only the person with the high level can have.

lol cool maybe a new quest for ftp? or maybe an amazing sequel similar to cook assistant-rfd.

First of all coal and iron add up to 450-500. Also smelting is like i mentioned before, an in between from mining to smithing. notice that the skill is called smithing not smelting. therefore smelting is still half a primary, half a secondary skill. Yes well self-accomplishment is something so thats individual opinion. fletching does not make you self-sufficient as do you really plan on using the 10k yew bows thay fletched? prolly not even one, since most ppl started using rune cbows anyway. d hide is profit for tanners but the profit has lessened. the crafters however ALWAYS lose money. please dont talk if you dont know. btw they dont sell d hide tops, they alch them. Sure all skills are important but thats not the point of the thread, the point is that these skills arent rewarding enough. althought your last paragraph did bring tears to me eyes :P such beautiful words :thumbsup:

You have a rather valid point here, some of these skills would be way too fast and easy if you made a profit. but the main point of my topic was not about the loss you make leveling it but how the only thing you have to look forward is more loss... Look at summoning where sure you spend millions of seconds and shards...but you get amazing things in return. For example spirit terrorbird allows me to carry more food for slaying, so instead of monkfish ill use tuna since i can carry more. Monkfish is about 5x more expensive than tuna. so in the long run summoning is very useful. in the long run the skills i mentioned are very costly. sorry for double posting but i had to quote this because there is huge flaw here. We don't need to make some kind of armor/weapon that disappears after awhile to lessen the amount of items in economy because items are being passed on and disappear daily. Take for example the rune 2h. There are 2 ways this keeps cycling through economy and it is not becoming filled with too many rune 2hes. 1. New players. Rs gets new players everyday and someday they all will be able to buy rune 2h new buyers = possible market. 2. these weapons do disappear without needing to break/ enchanting destruction/ etc. It's called death. People die from a multitude of reasons and after they die they're weapons are gone or taken by someone else (bounty hunter). So do you know what this person has to do now? buy another rune scimmy/ rune 2h/ etc!. We DO NOT need to make something like your enchantment idea because these items are being constantly bought and lost everyday. this post wasnt very great. 1.Sure there are new players, but for every 100 people that get to level 40, 1000 rune 2h's have been gotten from drops, treasure trails and smithing. 2.And the guy that got the rune 2h? guess what, he sells that 2h, possible back to the guy he pked it from... We definetely need something like enchantment because the only reason some rune items arent 5k is because of their alch value. As for your next post, please think before you reply.

Yea, exactly my point smithing is in need of a huge makeover as it's one of the few skills that has something new you get at 99....unfortunately its one of the worst 99s to achieve.

Lol it made rs looks pretty bad@ss. I feel better playing this game now tho, it looks way better in hd.

I respect that you wanna gather your own materials. but im rather not waste my time doing things i deem boring..

and one day after the update, you'll see a bunch of pures rioting over their lost weapons. :wall: Why do you have to loose the item? maybe it'll be damaged so you have to pay money to repair it? Also I agree with you on the fact that you loose loads of money to gain nothing but more ways to loose money #-o Breaking armor = more demand for armor = actual point in smiths making thousands of sets of armor. Yea, the armour would have to break, really the only reason rune armour is still worth ANYTHING is because of high alch. btw green, do you want me to put a link to your suggestions thread in my first post?

Bolrog was already there, no one (except maybe me and a few other hundered people) noticed him until they gave him the pouch trade-in. I never said it was :lol: . But they realized that there was going to be too many pouches and needed a way to get them out of the economy. Well I noticed him, since hes right next to a summoning obelisk. im pretty sure more than a few hundred knew about him since most people tried most if not all obelisks to see which one was fastest.

I edited my original post to include wool. Sapphire:297 Gold Bar:181>>>>>734 Nature Rune:256 Saphire bracelet alchs for--690 harralander:926 swamp tar: 206*15=3090+harralander=4016 Harralander tar:235*15=3525 Obviously harralander tar is very costly to make. however sapphire bracelets are a decent option..but only at a low level, at higher levels its much too slow and in the long run has a big loss. Sorry saifz, but i think i win \

Wait, so making potions dont take time? Why is it 0 seconds for buying and making? And in your situation you forgot to add just buying the finished product. That would cost you "0 gp" and 0 seconds. The reason I saw 0 gp is because 558 is the money difference, what about the 6k or so for the prayer pot itself? So according to your examples, buying is better than both of the examples you showed. [/hide] I see my mistake, I seemed to have forgot that only the potion is made in one of those methods. If we assume that on average it takes 10 seconds to make 1 prayer potion, then 360 can be made per hour. This means that within that hour you have lost 200,880gp. To collect the items to make the same amount would take 6 hours (numbers are way off :lol: ). This leaves you with 5 hours "fee time". So if you make over 40.1k/h, it is better to buy the product and then make. Also note I have assumed the buying/selling of the necessary items through the ge to be instantaneous. Just as I have assumed the transportation between the different areas you use to gain the items yourself (not the actual collecting though). I mean by that, swapping to lunar magic and using waterbirth island teleport to collect the snape grass to be 0 seconds, even though it isn't. As for simply buying the product, I didn't calculate that I admit. Though I thought the discussion was about the difference in collecting and buying/making. Buying the finished product would not cost "0gp" as you say, it is the full price of 6,689gp at 0 seconds of time (assume GE instantaneous). You gain no experience, use no time, and end up with the finished product. First i'll compare this to collecting yourself to buying outright. This means if you can make over 435k/h on average, it is better off buying the item rather then collecting. Also when compared to buying the needed items and making the potion. The time taken can be assumed to be 10 seconds (time to make potion). This means in an hour you could make 360 of them (numbers are not exact remember ;) ) This means that this should only occur if you make over 2.2m/h. Keeping in mind you gain experience, and that has a value, making it over 2.2m. This number believe it or not, is actually very low. You could even assume that each prayer potion bought takes 1 second to buy through GE. Meaning to buy the same amount of prayer potions (360) would take 6 minutes leaving you with 54 minutes free. to make up for the loss in money over 2.45m/h needs to be made as you have less time to make up for the loss in money. If 9 seconds each to be bought through GE, 22m/h needs to be made on average (for the remaining 6 minutes). So that shows another reason why I assume GE to be instantaneous. I hope I answered everything there and sorry if it was messy and hard to understand : . But as you can see, the best thing to do is to buy the items, and make yourself. P.S If i made any mistakes, let me know #-o I will try to respond to each paragraph independently. 1.Obviously your numbers are way off as it is rather hard to determine how fast you collect ranarrs, whether it is farming or chaos druids or whatever. However, I will stick with your far-fetched numbers. And well your intention was correct but you made a huge mistake in your comparison, you assumed that 360 prayer pots cost 200k.....they cost 2.2mil. So if you make under 440k an hour, you should collect the materials. Or if you collected the materials, then sold materials on ge, then bought 360 prayer pots you essentially make 520k an hour. So anyone who can make over 520k+ an hour should make/buy, unfortunately not alot of people fall into the 520+ an hour category. 2.The switching to waterbirth etc can be integrated into the 5 hour time that you gave. 3.You are correct on mostly everything there. 4.Agh..this paragraph is full of errors. Aright let me start. First of all let me make your entire argument collapse. Whenever you calculated the costs for buying/making you never calculated the amount of cash it takes to actually buy raw materials, only the difference. Before I go on, let me say that the amount of time you calculated for each item to be bought through ge is ridicolous, no one buys items 1 at a time. I'd say that you can buy all 360 in less than 10 seconds. Since that paragraph is rather messy ill try to show you a comparison to show where you went wrong Buying/Making(360 p pots) Time-1 hour Money Lost-near 2.6mil Buying Time:less than a minute Money lost-near 2.2mil So unless your caluculation of exp is Exp of 360 prayer pots=400k + 1 hour time. I dont know about you but buying is obviously the better option me. :wall:

I stand corrected ;) but its a tiny detail :P

If I need help because I spend money buying herbs and seconds and making them into potions for a loss because I like to see that shiny 57/57 by the picture of the herb instead of 1/1, then you need help because you spend money buying "cool armour" because you like to see the shiny colors on your avatar. Really, it's all just pixels and bytes. None of it is worth dirt. We play for fun. If you're not having fun putting snape grass into potions, find something else to put them in. but guess what, that armour makes me stronger and lets me own more monsters,etc,etc. while that shiny 57 doesnt do anything >.> and why are you quoting my unedited post, i agreed that it was kinda harsh and bigoted. the point of my thread was that secondary skills are unrewarding, need a makeover/uptade and that there isnt much of a point in doing these skills as refined materials arent needed in bulk(other than pots).

I personally like to craft air battle staffs(i have 67 crafting)..obviosuly d hide is faster albeit more expensive..and at your lvl u would have to start with green.

Yea thats what ive been trying to explain. I like your word usage, "oppurtunity cost" sounds better than time=money :D

Exactly my point :wall:

But smelting isnt the main part of the skill, thats proven by the exp ratio from smelting to smithing. Smelting is an in-between for smithing and mining, it is still slow exp and well its not the bulk of the skill.

Man that was the worst post I've seen in a while. First of all, your first sentence made no sense whatsoever. Secondly its not smithing iron and steel bars and its SMELTING. Smelting is not a complete refining skill its more like a in-between. The main part of the skill smithing is....you guessed it..SMITHING! Also of course you dont get to 99 prayer to make money, you get to 99 prayer cause you can own, prayer pots costs less, you can do barrows trip w/o needing prayer pots...the list goes on and on. So you think it's a great idea to get 99 cooking just because you can talk to people? Well how about 99 fishing or 99 woodcutting? I can talk to people while im fishing or woodcutting and get experience and even..guess what...make MONEY! I'm trying to say secondary skills arent rewarding, not whether or not you talk to people while you are cooking :wall: .

Well, I like going the calculated way because I feel like ive saved time/money, then i waste that time/money going crazy in castle wars, fight pits, etc. But for most skills I do try to do the best method, because otherwise i feel like im wasting time.

I already commented on how most of those skills USED to be profitable...guess what now full rune is 150k.

Nice and they are delaying BTS to next week, maybe cause a big uptade like achievement diary?

i love the graphics. as for walking and running..its kinda lame hopefully theyll change it. and lag should die out in 1 or 2 days.

QFt, this is beta :wall: