compfreak847

That was short, only 3 paragraphs. But I was right :P

People tend to read the last page and not bother with all the other replys. I would like to change a slight typo in your title, though - change the 'un' to 'over', any skill that gives you a 3-1 advantage against another fighter should be respected. As it stands, magic is fixed firmly atop the combat triangle :P

Ok, I'll just leave my argument as this so there's no miscommunication: A mage, wearing magic armor and wielding a magic staff, will lose to a meleer wearing range armor and wielding a meleer weapon. Unfortunately, I have NEVER heard of anyone trying this, and in ANY other situation magic caries the day, being FAR more powerful then melee, and with a simple armor change easily beating rangers - the ultimate PVP machine.

I believe that magic, as it is now, has plenty of power. The game is fairly well balanced right now IMO. But since Jagex has been increasingly turning their attention to rangers, the time may come when magic needs an update. Until then, I can continue hitting 60+ with magic combos, rarely splashing, freezing my opponents + halving their attack speed in a single shot.

They care enough to stop someone from killing themselves.... although come to think of it, if they killed themselves, that'd mean a canceled subscription... and possibly around 2-400 moneys.... : I suppose angry parents could possibly make a case out of people forcing their son to commit suicide through an online game, or at least cause a hassle for Jagex. I'm sure it's much easier to waste the .002 seconds of server time to auto-send a message :P Yeah, thats true. I guess its over sensitive. And either its auto-monitoring all chat for suicide, or someone was stupid and reported me, I dont know. But I dont think I was reported. I don't know, it could have been some random passer-by. I don't think they'd go for gamewide chat screening. I'll say it and find out.

What? Trapped for 10 seconds is a big deal when you can immedatly freeze within 2 seconds of them being unfrozen. I can cast for 10 seconds, then run for 2, turn around, and barrage you again without ever being touched. I didn't see how many hours you use it in PVP, nor what your levels are. Since you were so insistant, I tested it. For the record, protect from anythning reduces damage\effeects by 40%, not 50%. Another 'mistake' on your part. So I went to clan wars with my stopwatch, and the end results were this: Without protect from magic, 20 seconds. With protect from magic, 12 seconds. Any other questions? As for the whole class argument, I can maintain this: A pure mager will beat a pure meleer. Armor is just as much a part of a class as weapons; magic and range have the ADVANTAGE of having armors with large bonuses so that they can effectively fight in several different ways. Switching to range armor is just as much 'class switching' as switching to a whip; but in the case of range armor, the 'meleer' still has a HUGE deficiency from the earlier spells and lower defence - this is the reason the mage has the advantage.

[hide=] Exactly. I can wear ahrims and a whip, have runes in my inventory and cast magic. I can use melee and magic simultaneously. I don't need a staff to cast magic. Right!!!! So all you have proved is if you are hybirding, magic is extremely powerful. On its own it still is weak compared to range and melee!!!! Rebalance magic so it isn't a support skill! You've completely turned around my argument towards a point without admitting that my point is correct. Magic is still able to attack even though I am wearing a whip. If you guys want a logical syllogism, here it is: All melee is short ranged. All Magic is long ranged. All long ranged is greater than short range. Therefore, all magic is greater than melee. think of magic vs melee with dhdie as two meleers in rune armor with dragon weapons. The catch is, if player A lands a hit once every ~25 seconds, player B can't attack for 20 seconds. That's what it's like when lvls are equal. Who do you think will win? [/hide] Make that 20 seconds 10 seconds because of prayer, and make those 10 second in game seconds which are hardly equivalent to real life 10 seconds. But I'm not sure I understand the second part about the two meleers in rune armor with dragon weapons. O_o You can pray meleer just as easily. Not that it matters, a decently skilled mage can easily dodge the meleer and never get hit. I was slightly curious about your 'game vs. real life' seconds, so I decided to test it out. I used a stopwatch to time the exact amount of time it took between the freezing of a guard and the time it started to move towards me. Results: 19.8 seconds the first time, 19.9 the second, 19.9 the third. I didn't feel it was necessary to time more. Sounds like another of your 'facts', like +15% magic prayer boosting your damage. Out of curiosity, how much have YOU used magic in PVP? As a rough guess, I have maged around 300 hours in PVP. Yep, and that +20 will do almost nothing to a magers accuracy. Mages are VERY accurate, even at 100+ magic defence; far more so then a meleer can hit with the 300+ armor defence of other meleer armor. The highest I have EVER seen a seercull hit is 7. Virtually every time is a 0, and a complete waste of the meleer's special bar. I have close to 160 range defence in my magic armor, and almost no one brings one to PVP. As for you 'pure' accounts, a pure mage will STILL take down a pure meleer, and I can rehash again: the mage's spells will result in him winning the fight, no matter WHAT. His 3 to 1 advantage in hitting means that the mager with a whip (yes, you can cast spells without a staff! Shocking, I know) can EASILY defeat a meleer.

I agree with most of your post, but not so much with the quoting problem. It really helps for people that come in late, so to speak. It lets you see where the conversation has been going. It would be helpful if people would hide their posts, though.

Yes, they should. Magic is designed to be versatile and flexible, and giving it power to be used with any armor would upset the balance. Magers can eat meleers for breakfast; therefore, they should be equally trounced by rangers, something that wouldn't happen if melee armor didn't give huge negative bonuses. Magic still hits well on d hide.

They care enough to stop someone from killing themselves.... although come to think of it, if they killed themselves, that'd mean a canceled subscription... and possibly around 2-400 moneys.... : I suppose angry parents could possibly make a case out of people forcing their son to commit suicide through an online game, or at least cause a hassle for Jagex. I'm sure it's much easier to waste the .002 seconds of server time to auto-send a message :P

I still haven't seen where you argue against anything. I can repeat my last post if you would like. A pure magic player will beat a pure melee player. If the melee player uses range armor, the mage player can use a melee or range weapon and, thanks to his spells, will have a 3 to 1 advantage over the meleer, resulting in the meleer doing very little to no damage while the mager has a field day in his stronger magic robes. Ah yes, I am the big bad guy who is insulting you. I knew that somewhere, somehow someone who demanded political correctness would be 'offended' by it. Hence why I hid it in hide tags, I'm afraid it's rather your fault for looking at it in the first place. I found it rather humorous. It said nothing personal about you, only that I believed you didn't understand what I was trying to say. Let's drag up a few remarks of yours from one of the posts on the first page, shall we? I do not think that a humorous depiction of my belief that you misunderstood my post does not fall under 'pointless harassment'. However, if you wish to make a large issue out of that, I will willingly take it down if you want me to do so.

Here we go again. Jagex customer support is GREAT. I have NEVER had an in game problem that was not either #A: A bug, easily reported by their report bug system #B: An in game question, specifically tailored to my account, that I received an answer within 10 minutes on the forums that was FAR more helpful then any generic report could EVER be #C: An unfair ban or mute, which was appealed and lifted in a matter of minutes Jagex doesn't care about players, though. They are a COMPANY. They are interested in MAKING MONEY. As EVERY other company is. Why is this constantly parroted? Thankfully, good customer support is in line with making a profit, so we get a very nice system.

[hide=Don't read this, as you may find it offensive][/hide] It's amazing. I haven't seen a SINGLE argument against ANY of my points. I have effectively nullified and proved wrong every single one of yours, backing up mine with facts and large amounts of real world experience. I suppose you just can't lower your standards to argue with me? It might help me to understand why melee owns magic so badly, because so far from what you and I have said, my magic will completely destroy your melee. Also, it isn't your 'responsibility' to argue against me, especially since you seem to be so handily stepping around it, nor is it your responsibility to tell people to 'get off your thread'. I could go the same route and tell you not to post until you can actually counter my points, but I suppose you can continue to candidly ignore my posts and respond only to those that are incorrect. [hide=] [/hide] Meleer who fights a mager without switching armor will get completely owned. Any sensible mage can switch to a whip after using magic for a 3 to 1 advantage over his opponent, using it to keep him stuck with inferior armor, lower attack, poison damage, half the attack speed, and already 100+ damage points behind. Fortunately most meleers are too stupid to switch to range armor, and are forced to run for cover or die. Those that do are already frozen, poisoned, and have slowed attacks, so I can sidestep and take them out in everything but eating fights without being touched. For eating fights, see above; he doesn't stand the slightest chance, thanks to my spells.

If I specced 40s four times in a row, my face would probably look weird too. Not sure what the dark bow vs. drag dagger price thing is about, I can earn that much money in less then an hour, whereas 99 range\attack\strength\defence takes around 1,400 hours.

Hah. I suppose they can count it as some sort of 'appreciate the customer' gesture. Or it's an automatic response to any report involving the world 'suicide' so they can avoid any legal blame.

you obviously want to dismay the claw owners into believing your testimony, but it won't work! claws minimal damage is 1 (2 splashes with a 1 and 0) and the maximum damage is anything thats your highest hit with claws and half of that with two 25% of your highest hit which makes 4 splashes. Dismay? I call it helping out those who don't have a clue. I mean Jagex even threw out a bone on this one with the starting price. Obviously they just made it for completeness, not that it was unique or anything. As for facts, minimum damage is 0. I mean if they spec you and you still have 99 hps what else could it be? Alot of the owners of this junk are 130+, so they have 99 attack and more than likely pot. I don't pot in cw so take it for what it is, and that is a weapon for spec'ing the defenseless. Of course be my guest if you want to break your bank to buy one that is no more effective than a 45K dagger that poisons and only needs one hand. I mean Runescape players are into fads and always overlook quality. They cry about the dragonplate stats yet junk and bh trade for a 3rd age plate that has worse stats. Anyhow, its all good for Jagex seeing how they run things over the past year. He's mentioning the fact that what you described is impossible. You will NEVER hit 0, you have obviously not tried them. They have both dd++ and armadyl godsword beat by far, therefore making them worth the extra cost.

Can't use void on slayer tasks. The +12 attack\strength from barrows gloves, +3 strength from nezinot helm and much greater defence and prayer bonus from proslyte top\verac skirt would be much more useful then void. Void with a godsword is boosting your bonuses by 10%, or around +15 attack, +15 strength. That means you'll have +5 attack more then my setup, but MUCH lower defence and 0 prayer bonus. Void works OK at waterfiends, but a SGS is a bad idea. Use a zammy spear or sara sword; a godsword is far too slow at waterfiends Overall, a godsword just isn't good for training. Even a d scimmy + defender will get you better XP. The best would be shared with whip, but if you need strength XP a sara sword\salve ammy (e) which DOES NOT stack with void, along with my previously mentioned outfit at Zombie Monkies.

*sigh* i meant compared to what your combat level would be with 99 magic :P As for the staff, that's one of the quirks of magic - the armor is what provides the majority of the bonuses, not the staffs. +20 mage with master wand is actually the best staff, though.

Oh puh-lease Here's our arguments: You: I remember 2 years ago RS had more people playing on average! Me: Alexa traffic rank has been climbing... I don't think that it's 'guessed numbers', except for YOUR argument. No need to buy Alexa to prove it, they conveniently offer a website with which you can view data.

They all hit at the same time, with no delay for eating. And the total damage is 120, higher then the maximum possible HP. So surving one is completely luck. From two 'weak' combat styles. That you can use at 51 combat. So yeah, a level 51 that can easily, and OFTEN, hit over 120 in a SINGLE hit. And they say melee is good at KOing.

Psst. 3 D claws specs (friend with energy transfer), or even 2, will take you down 9 times out of 10. Jagex fixed the 3 round system by providng KO weapons that require more skill then "hit 3 times and hope you hit high".

Very true. OP, take notice. Yes, in a hypothetical world where you are only allowed to switch armor instead of weapons, magic will do poorly against range armor. In the real RS world, magic will provide a HUGE advantage, allowing you to take down a meleer virtually untouched.

Combos, of course. It isn't some sort of black magic, I can pull off a successful one 19 times out of 20 (thanks to plenty of practice). Splashes ARE rare on melee armor. Hitting 50 ACCURATELY is a very big bonus to magic - unlike dd++, where 4 specs in a row frequently don't land anything, you will hit the combo the majority of the time. As I've stated before, in FTP mage doesn't do as well against higher leveled meleers. I've PVPed close to 1,000 hours with each combat style, so please don't speak of experience. I'm proud to say that I've spent over 70,000,000 on runes for Castle Wars\Clan Wars\Fight Pits. I already mentioned that the cost is just a balancing factor for the advantages the skill provides. You won't need to do any great changing. If a meleer puts on karil's top and bottom, you put on whip. If he puts on melee armor, switch to a staff and keep casting. Very simple. Yes, my avatar is a dd++ and ice blitz combo.

The funny thing is that your maze reward was probably far more then the d spear. The sad thing is that they really are annoying.. Turning off randoms in GWD was a great idea by Jagex, although I wouldn't mind if they limited it to boss rooms. Anything to combat macros...

Because 4+ str bonus is better than 40-60+ defense bonus, duh. Yeah, everyone knows that! And obviously at the places where you don't need defence, that +4 strength really owns the +7 prayer you can get from other plates that don't take 10 hours to get. There's a few reasons I don't own a torso. Then again, I recently bought bandos, so I really can't talk. It hurt, but I'm having fun cranking out epic combos. Except a new sig soon, I missed the 75-22. I need a fire cape -.-