compfreak847

only when your opponent is eating.Since this rant came out, so has PVP worlds, giving the AGS a real use - but before that, PVP with eating was ONLY in bounty hunter, where virtually no one actually fought a fight to the death with a godsword. The other 90% of PVP with a GS was without using food, making the SGS better. So no, the statment that AGS is better for pvp is totally off. You kill them before you give them a chance to eat...? Get them to ~60 hp, ags spec. Edit: If nobody fought to the death in Bounty hunter, it would be impossible to get a kill with AGS. Although eating in Pits will usually get you piled too... I meant, as in '1 v 1, no one runs, either your going to die or I'm going to'; virtually all AGS use centers around 'spec twice, run out of crater, pick up drops'. And for every other PVP minigame besides castle wars (which, I do admit, is fun with AGS), SGS is better, due to to food not being used.

192k, actually. Me and Inushkant did the calcs; it's buried in a thread I'd rather not remember. Consider them forgotten in the sands of time, but Inushkant can verify - they are accurate. This argument boils down very simply. You believe the the AVERAGE melee XP from slayer is over 90k per hour, making slayer better; I do not, making slayer worse. That is the bottom line. I've already proven, with summoning factored in, and with AVANSIES, a decent moneymaker (If I had used GWD, as would have been available to a 'maxed' player, it would have been much higher). Range XP from a cannon is minimal; I also did not include the cost of that in my calculations, as I believe that cannon is rarely used and very inefficient. Using a cannon on cannonball tasks makes the 'profit' from them drop far into the negatives; as a cannon is roughly 1/2 as efficient as chinchompas, I think I can safely say that the impact would not be significant if cost were factored in. As I've explained before, we are arguing about the efficiency of slayer XP, so the actual XP from slayer is not factored in. My series of calculations, all very basic and easy to understand, proved that slayer is less efficient if you are receiving less then 90k melee experience per hour. It's as simple as that. You can try and skirt around it with comments about dust devils, but the simple fact is: if your getting less then 90k melee XP per hour training slayer, your waisting your time. And I believe me '45k' numbers - I have not done specific testing, due to the sheer impossibility of completing a task that enourmous accurately, I have taken my own observations and extrapolated them, coming out with a broad '45k melee XP per hour, for the average high level player training slayer'. At that rate, 99 slayer will 'cost' you 266.2 million GP in time lost; if we use your figure of an average of '65k', which you do not seem to be sticking by, we get a cost of 133.1 million in time lost. Unless your getting more then 90k melee XP per hour with slayer, it is INEFFICIENT.

What ? The SGS minimum heal is 10 hp. Therefore the SGS spec isn't 'always' better than the AGS for one. And put it this way: two maxed melee people are fighting (99 hp). The first hit for both weapons deals 50 damage, leaving 49 hp each, both then spec, let's say the SGS hits first, giving the wielder an extra 25 hp (total 74) for a hit of 50. The AGS could then spec the 74 remaining HP of the SGSer and KO him, negating the positive effect of the SGS spec. What? The AGS would spec a 63 (50 *1.25), leaving the AGS owner with 49 HP, and the SGS owner with 62. If the AGS owner specced *just* high enough to hit a 62, it would require a regular hit of 50 - higher then his HP, and whoever hit first loses. If the hit is less then that regular 50, which is unlikely, the SGS user will again have the advantage - to the tune of TWICE the advantage. One SGS spec is the equivilant of 2 AGS specs in terms of damage on hits over 20, and increasing superior on lower hits, up to 20x as good on a regular 1.

What? 45 seconds to a minute = 60\75 runs per hour. My best time is 87.2, but I've heard of people getting down to 82-83. When I'm not paying attention it's closer to 92-93, and when I'm REALLY not paying attention (IMing, reading other sites, etc.) it's around 95-98. Eh, must've been thinking about ZMI or Astrals. 75 seconds then. 40+ runs/hour all the same. I'm going to say that 75 seconds is physically impossible - I've NEVER heard of anyone getting under 82, including Zarfot. And that's an absolute best, never failing, knowing which square to click on and using the doubling back glitch. 40 runs an hour is 90 seconds per, which is unlikely for an entire hour - with randoms and failing, that would be very difficult to achieve.

No one has the slightest clue, especailly in this early stage of the game. Unless a J mod posts here, anything will be total shots in the dark. Hey, I can do that myself. Needless to say, I completely made all those numbers up. I've only been to a PVP world once, for about 30 seconds. But mine are about as likely as someone who has been there since the update. Prove me wrong. See what I mean? :wall:

Highest I've hit is a 46 at 95 range on Accurate; Highest possible is 48-48 at 99. Without void the max is 43-43. Rune and addy arrows are garbage, you hit FAR too many 5s. Not worth speccing with; use a MSB.

That's odd, I only had one of my tourneys close, and a different one was starting in a minute or two, so I hopped on that one.

^ They aren't impossible to understand, Zarfot's cannon figures come from cannonable tasks, I already explained that slayer XP should not be included in efficiency experiments, and I wasn't including HP XP in any of mine - the results would be the same if we both did or didn't use them, and I chose not to. Therefore neither can you for a fair comparison. But like I said, I believe my XP rates, you believe yours.

I tried out dual tournaments for the first time, and was impressed. I went with some unicorn pouches and vengance, and entered the tournament with summoning on and food off, paying the entry fee of 9k. I killed some level 100 fairly quickly, losing only a few HP. I then sat out for two rounds, then fought some level 112 who ags specced me for 12 and was killed by the 4 veng (Redbarred, apparntly), and won the tournament. Total time: ~3 minutes. Total reward (GP): 288k. My other duels went much the same way; easily won, thanks to being the only one able to heal with unicorn, and 30 minutes later I walked out of the room with 588k cash in my invo. Total cost: ~25 healing aura scrolls for 7.5k, armor repair costs on barrows (~1k?), and the entrance fees for the tourneys (5-15k per). No risk, no nothing... If it always goes like that, I could have some fun there :shock: My point is, there was only one world, and frequently some of the registers were closed - why don't more people appreciate this? It's fun, with little risk or cost, and a nice reward if you win.

Debating is one of my favorite activities. But why would Jagex nerf slayer because of this thread? It should make them improve it, which would be fine with me - I like it too, but I can't stand wasting 266.2M (:lol:) just to have 'fun' training slayer instead of zombies; I'd rather train at zombies and then spend the money barraging etc, which is exactly what I'm doing.

You killed 18 dust devils in X amount of time and you call that a test? That's MEANINGLESS. Until you give real results, by which i mean HUNDREDS of kills, not 18, you can't make ANY sweeping assumptions. 65k XP an hour on Iron Dragon tasks? 105k XP on Dust Devils? Slayer over 90k melee XP an hour, not including the XP on the skill itself? Your numbers are so unbelievable that it does not good to argue with you. You completely misunderstood my final calculations, which you either chose to ignore or did not understand (which is forgivable; I made them rather confusing and hard to follow). I'm done; I have my XP rates, you have yours. I'll leave my final statement at 'if you get less then 90k melee XP per hour doing slayer tasks, slayer is not a good way to train combat'.

Seems pretty clear to me...

From what I have seen and heard, that the charms from Slayer will get you into the 90s. That the Summoning to Slayer ratio is about 0.7:1 up to 0.8:1. This results in 7.7-8.8m Summoning experience. That is about level 94-95. Now using your times of 900 hours of slaying for 99 Slayer, this means on average you will also gain 8.6-9.8k Summoning experience per hour which is about 27 or so Crimsons worth per hour. Using what I believe can be averaged, 20-25k Slayer xp/h and i'll say 65k of melee xp/h (though it can be higher). You could get up to 20k Summoning experience per hour. However, say it is about 17.5k. That means on average per hour you gain around 22.5k Slayer, 65k Melee, (not sure how much experience you get per damage with cannon, I think it is 2x) so 12.5k Range, 17.5k Summoning experience per hour. In total that is 117.5k experience per hour (without Hitpoints), or 140k experience per hour (with Hitpoints. Zombie Monkies gains about 100k Melee xp/h and 10k extra from a familiar. That is about 143k experience per hour with Hitpoints. As you see, the exprience difference is minimal, but Slayer makes money compared to the Monkies loss. With Slayer, as you say, making 50k per hour, Monkies losing 40k per hour, you would need to be able to make approximately 4.32Mil per hour, for it to be more efficient. Even with Slayer making only 10k per hour, you need to be able to make 2.88Mil per hour on average. For the Difference to brought down to 1Mil, you would have to lose 20k per hour during Slayer. Even still, the average player can't. Even at Slayer losing 30k per hour a player would need to make 500k/h. The thing is, even if someone Slayer lost 20k per hour (which isn't really possible ;) ), and someone could make just over 1mil per hour on average, I still would say it isn't worth doing. Mathematically shown, that yes Zombie Monkies can be more efficient. However, since no-one can make that much continuously every hour. From this, I would say Slayer is still better. There is reasons for killing them outside of Slayer other than fun. Some people simply cannot make alot of money per hour. It is easier for them to train on say Spiritual Mages, getting maybe 60-80k xp/h (or whatever it is when you camp there), while gaining 450k profit per hour. If I made any mistakes, feel free to point them out. Hate to think I did all that and forgot to move a decimal or something : . Good job on not saying 'rofl ur an idiot i get 130 crimson an hour at dust devils so ill get 99 summoning so slayers better haha, like I was expecting :thumbsup: However, you are sadly mistake with your 27 crimson per hour. Gold charms get 68.4 XP per pouch at level 52+ for the most efficient pouch, Spirit Terrorbird. That's a far cry from crimson's 325.6 XP - meaning you'd have to get over 38 gold an hour while slaying just to get the equivalent of 8 crimson. I'm not sure where you dug up your '99 slayer gets your summoning in the mid 90s' argument - I'm not even sure that anyone's trained from 1-99 slayer since summoning came out. Even worse, you didn't use your 8.6-9.8k summoning figure for your caluclations; you randomly stated the summoning experience as 17.5k per hour, 53 crimsons, or 252 gold charms per hour! Next you included a cannon in ALL your summoning calculations - my figures did not include cannon use, which is NOT worth it - it costs nearly twice what chinchompas do; unless you value slayer XP VERY highly, it is not worth it. Then you used your slayer XP figure and included the omniscient cannon XP for 22.5k XP an hour, or 90k combat XP - again, far from true. We can go with your 65k melee XP figure, although I will indeed state that that figure is higher then what most players will see, but that doesn't mean you can count on a cannon to get XP - My figures don't even include the cost cannon usage, and given the rarity of cannonable tasks, the idea that 20k of your hourly XP comes from a cannon is absurd! Furthermore, we are leaving slayer XP out of the situation - we are arguing about the most efficient way of training combat, and comparing apples to oranges is worthless. Needless to say, hitpoints XP is left out of the equation everywhere. Once those inaccurate factors are stripped out, we are left with the 65k melee XP per hour, plus the 8 crimson charms for 2.6k Summoning XP, leaving me back with my original equation - 65k melee XP is far smaller then 90k melee XP, and slayer falls far short in terms of efficiency. Even with the 16.25k slayer XP, you would have to value your slayer XP twice as valuable as combat, meaning 55k XP per hour at 20k loss from 1-99, half of Monkies, meaning redemption in the form of Avansies would grant 237 hours X 400k = 94.8 MILLION GP, plus 4.8m from 'training' at 'monkies' = 99.6 MILLION, the COST of 99 slayer. If we factor in the XP from Avansies, you would end up wasting considerably more, totaling 1/2 of our numbers below (details also below), or 33.5M - making 99 slayer cost 133.1 Million. The numbers multiply even more quickly if we use a lower XP rate; at my figures of 45k XP an hour + 11.25k slayer XP = 56.25k XP total per hour, 90k - 56.25k = 33.75k slayer XP that has to be made up, or 1/4th the total XP lost from training, meaning - 22.5k XP per hour at 10k loss from 1-99, half of zombies - meaning the 'cost' of slayer would be 199.2 MILLION GP. Again, add the XP from avansies - approx. 16.6m XP, factor in that XP from chinchompas, the best method of training, would cost 69 hours and 30 million, plus the 69 hours from avansies giving another 27 million GP lost, plus the XP of 2.4m, meaning another 10 hours of chinchompas and 4.5m cost, making for another 4.5m and 4m from opportunity costs lost, and so on in an infinity decreasing loop, ending with about 67m extra cost tacked on. The final cost: 266.2m GP LOST for 99 slayer, based on time, XP, summoning XP, and drops. I know that last part was probably VERY hard to follow, but basically I took what XP you were sacrificing by training slayer, and comparing that to the slayer XP you were getting - then calculated how much time you were wasting to achieve that, based on the melee XP rates of slayer. I tried to simplify it, but well... I'm tired, don't expect a response to your response until tomorrow. As for your other comment, anyone who has 83 slayer and kills spiritual mages PROBABLY has access to avansies, and spirit mages aint no 80k XP and 450k profit no more.

Get 70 range on Yaks or Experments, then do Avansies.

Four higher Strength may allow you to hit one damge more, far from significant. You have brought this up many time, but i've not even asked yet... how did you arrive at only 50k xp/h while doing Slayer? You can't say you have proven anything without actually explaining how you even managed to come up with that experience rate. My idea is that it is indeed higher than your stated rate easily. I would say it is possible to average at or slightly below 70k, it may even be higher. I don't mean anything bad by this, but Inuashakent's rate doesn't mean it is the average either. By seeing his guide on Slayer he says that he skips some tasks that have high Slayer xp/h rates (reason doesn't matter). I'm not saying he should have to do these tasks, but if done they would increase the average xp/h. They may not be the best way to make money, but getting boots results in about 450k per hour and getting whips is about 300k I think. It is still ok money and provides experience. Think about it this way, if everyone had your point of view on Slayer and nearly no-one raised it. By that simple fact alone more people would train it because the drops would be worth more. Regardless of what you think, Slayer is and always will be good experience. Now I have a question, answer with what you believe is as close to correct as you can. If you started at say 80 Slayer and 52 summoning, went for 99 Slayer, by the time you get there, what level do you think the charms would get you to? I'll explain why after you respond. I will freely admit that I don't have a clue. A very rough guess, using 8 crimson per hour, with 900 hours from 80-99, would put it at 7.2k crimsons. Obviously it would be only that worth of crimsons, so to estimate the value I will use the XP from a common pouch, Granite Lobster, assuming that your average XP per crimson will be close to that. At 325.6 XP per charm, that is 2.4m XP (Numbers are, obviously, very rough). Assuming you started from the mid XP from 52-53 summoning, or 143,733, plus the 2,400,000 XP from the charms would be 2,543,733 XP, between level 82 and 83. My numbers are VERY rough, and like I said, could be off by a significant amount. That's one point I'm willing to compromise on. The money and XP, combined, is worse then that of Avansies and Zombie monkies, combined. Therefore there is no point to killing slayer monsters outside of tasks, EXCEPT FOR FUN.

What? 45 seconds to a minute = 60\75 runs per hour. My best time is 87.2, but I've heard of people getting down to 82-83. When I'm not paying attention it's closer to 92-93, and when I'm REALLY not paying attention (IMing, reading other sites, etc.) it's around 95-98.

Very true for duals, but doing something like that in the fight pits is asking to get piled. You do have a point, though, but that would get old fast in duels. It probably is the 'best' weapon for them though :ohnoes:

Thanks for lightening the moment. :lol: Your very right; in the very low levels, slayer dart and broad bolts are worth unlocking (although I prefer MSB over broad bolts, and COG over slayer dart). But beyond that slayer doesn't have much to offer; Abby Demons, Mages, and Dark Beasts are all outdated and inefficient methods of making money, useless unless you are training slayer. So unless its for fun or total levels, slayer really doesn't have a point. There is simply too many people who train it, either for fun or because they are misinformed and think it is good XP, to make it really profitable.

I don't see how you have "much" better stats than me. You have 1 better in Attack, 4 in Strength, 3 in Defence (makes no difference at Zombie Monkies), 5 in Range, which doesn't change anything, and mage and hp are the same. You also have 1 high in Summoning, which gains nothing new and doesn't have much affect on this, and finally 9 better in Prayer. Simply longer lasting prayer, but that doesn't influence how good the task goes. Better equipment? Do you even know what I use? You think my stating illogical statements that it makes your point more valid? Better Prayers... I use either superhuman strength of Piety on all tasks. More pots... as you said somewhere earlier that potting every 5 levels under max compared to 10 isn't going to have a significant difference. Zombie Monkies are necessarily better, and they aren't 100% efficient. So no you can't state truthfully. I have read all the posts in this rant. Again you prove that you do not read what I am saying either. When did I say it averages over 90k per hour? I have stated several times it doesn't, but that it is alot higher than what you have been stating. 4 higher strength is the main factor in XP at lower level monsters, and the XP rate differences between 94 and 98 strength are significant. I stated that other methods were more efficient if slayer was less then 90k per hour, through a series of very simple equations. You continued to say that slayer was more efficient. Slayer is around 50k XP per hour, if you pay attention, making my methods almost twice as efficient as slayer, and proving my point. Pray, tell me, what is YOUR idea of the XP of slayer? Even inushkant, with almost 90 slayer and a big fan of the skill, admits that it is less then 70k per hour. Unless it's over 90k XP per hour, slayer is not the best way to train combat, which is the point of my entire thread.

I was basing mine on simply crimsons, and they are far from better than Rock Lobsters. I get approximately 180-190 crimsons per hour at Rock Lobsters (that is only crimsons). Add to that approximately 90-95 gold, 45 or so green and around 4-6 blue. Yes it is true, it is possible to pick up drops whilst losing no attack time. Click to pick up just as you attack, and then click attack again. Amazingly that accomplishes picking up th drop and no lose in attack time. You don't use guthans on Dust Devils, so that doesn't matter. This was with no familiar also remember. I am sure someone can bring food with them, and plenty spare in a BOB such as a spirit terrorbird at only 52 Summoning. Guthans can be replaced with so many more healing methods as it is. I have it, but I don't use as in nearly every task I have more than enough methods to stay at high Hitpoints. It is more efficient to use a whip compared to the warpsear also, hence why food is more efficient if you don't need to bank. Who mentioned picking up "every" drop either? Inventory space, with 2 super sets and 4 prayer potions, a teleport and other items, you still have half of your inventory spare. More than enoguh food to last the task and more than enough space for drops. Why do you even mention if you don't aclh cash drops alot? Are you not able to read anything I post? I have said many times now, that you don't alch there. You pick up the drops, bank them, and alch them later. You are still alching them.I have arguments against all of those, but since you have a tendancy to ignore my main points and bring up the smaller things, I won't. You won't recieve 105k melee XP per hour at dust devils without a summon. I don't get that at Zombies, with better equipment, much better prayers, potting far more often, and losing no time whatsoever banking, picking up drops, eating, or running to monsters. You can't get anywhere close to that at dust devils. 80k XP per hour is good at dust devils, not 105k XP. How am I a "misinformed idiot" when I back up everything I have said with exmaples and shown that others have done this as well. Try it yourself, so far you have done nothing but contradict what I have shown by simply saying "But I can't get that! So no-one else can! End of discussion!". Instead of attempting to disregard it for no logical reason, why not perform a test? Keep in mind it is even possible to get up to 112k per hour with piety and without a familiar still. See previous argument. I have much better stats then you, I'm using better equipment, better prayers, more pots, on a better monster, one that is always at 100% efficiency, even without paying attention. In that case, yes, I can state that I think the idea that you are getting significantly better XP then me is wrong. #2 We have not been using piety in the slayer calculations. All of mine were of superhuman strength which uses up a very minimal amount of prayer. #4 You haven't disproved anything but come up with fake numbers and called them facts. Everything you have said is so contradictory. You specifically say that your rates were for the average player at 50k xp/h. Now you are saying that it is for higher level players bordering on level 90 stats. A person with level 90 stats is not going to be getting such a low rate as you suggest. That's the average player I am addressing in my posts. It would do you good to go back and read the other posts in this rant. It all boils down to this. You are trying to say that slayer earns more then 90k XP per hour, making it more efficient then my methods. And it doesn't. Simple as that.

#1 and if you want to train range xp the most 'efficient' way is zombie monkeys basically an attempt to turn your own argument against you that in order for the average player to train range efficeintly they'd need a sufficient cash base which most don't. #4 the average player are low leveled, around the 70s. according to you the most efficient method for getting charms would be what? i'm guessing kent would say water fiends or bursting rock crabs. most players would have water fiends tearing them apart so whats a better way to get charms while they gain levels to kill water fiends? slayer as to faster training melee it is faster yes but the lower leveled players would have to spend alot more on p pots then higher level players meaning htey have to spend more time making money and reduce the amount of xp they do get an hr 7# what i was trying to get at is most of us like those monster because we can afk, we are not stuck staring at a screen all day and they don't become borring and we can do other things. lower level players can't or risk dieing and losing amounts of cash that would be huge to them but small to us. over all what i'm getting at is slayer is better for lower level players because it provides a means of making cash and getting levels while they train to get to the higher monsters that we find efficient #1. :wall: I never said ANYTHING about chinchompas at zombie monkies; I specifically said that they were a method of training MELEE using a WHIP, and not involving chinhompas in any way, shape, or form. Oh, and it costs around 40k an hour, which doesn't really require oodles of cash. #4. Hence why I said players with mid 80-90s stats. 91 happens to be the 'middle' XP for leveling, and at level 70 you can level quite quickly. Frankly, the best option for them would be to train at dust devils a few days for 100 combat, then start doing methods like zombie monkies and avansies. #7. Again, what? Just because you are lower level doesn't mean you cant afford the TINY (smaller then with slayer) risk of losing ~100k. They can still do avansies, and even at 70 range a 200-300k profit is attainable, making the 'cost' of dying at zombie monkies with fairly cheap gear take about 20 mintues to earn. Again, my arguments are for 'higher level' players, but other arguments hold up just as well for low levels - training at Zombie monkies would work for anyone with 43+ prayer, and places like bandits work for even lower levels while still offering far better experience, cash, GP, and charms then slayer.

There's a very simple solution. It requires a few items: some blood, death, and water runes, a set of Ahrims, a Dragonfire shield, and a set of Veracs. When you get the 'nerd' or 'noob' word, switch to ahrims top and bottom, and click 'cast ice barrage on (insert name nere)'. Step back and repeat. When your opponent turns prayer on, ,put on your veracs set and pray melee, then attack them and quickly step away so that you do not get hit. When they are unfrozen, fight them a couple seconds so that they switch to protect from melee prayer, then put on ahrims and repeat. Very satisfying. Higher stats does help, though. If one opponent is being particularly annoying, the use of blood barrage is highly advised - I frequently heal several hundred hitpoints in a single round of Clan Wars. It's very satisfying to actually act like a 'noob' when called one. Try it sometime and see. That and the ignore lists are you two best 'namecaller fighting' tools.

Oh kai, I'll make a list of your agruments so that you can correct me if I'm getting the wrong idea. #1, the average player cannot afford to use chinchompas at zombie monkies #2, the average player does not have high enough prayer to do zombie monkies without spending millions #3, the average player cannot go to GWD and make millions #4, the average player finds slayer more efficent because it combines all the skills #5, the average player can make money from slayer drops which are better because they can't make money at GWD #6, the average player cannot make up the money lost training any way besides slayer #7, the average player cannot afk 'at monster that you can' And my argument #1. I shall attempt to refrain from sarcasm. Zombie monkies consists of whacking 2 monkies over the head with a whip until they are dead. It does not involve chinchompas in any way, shape, or form. If it did, it wouldn't matter, because I included all costs and profits in my calculations #2. We are assuming the average player is fairly high leveled, with stats in the mid 80s-low 90s. Even if we didn't, the fact that we use Piety for our slayer calculations (By far worth the cost, but with an argument that is beyond the scope of this post) means that the same 'average player' would be spending just as much extra on slayer #3. Fair enough, that's why I use Avansies in my comparisons #4. Terrible argument, I already disproved it - slayer is roughly half as fast at training Summoning, Melee, and GP together as doing them separately #5. The average player has far more ways of making money besides slayer drops, such as Avansies (which can be done with a range level of 70; easily attainable in a few days by almost any player. Obviously the profit will be lower, but we are assuming that a player with that low of a range level is going to have lower melee stats, and be getting less profit and XP from slayer. #6. Already addressed in previous arguments; there are plenty of ways to make money besides slayer, all of which are better #7. I'm not sure what you mean by this, but anyone with a prayer level of 43 or higher will find Zombie monkies quite easy to AFK.

Actually, totaling up the XP of all the other charms brings a 'crimson charm drop' rate from waterfiends to roughly 91%, making for 151 crimson charms per hour from waterfiends. Puh-lease, that's faster charms then bursting. Picking up drops does not slow down your attack rate at all? Not. :roll: . Healing takes an extremely little amount of time? Both guthans and BTP take a considerable amount of time to use. If you don't alch your cash rate goes down dramatically, unless you pick up each drop which is impossible considering the potions and other items taking up inventory space, and the fact that dust devils are assigned in rather large numbers. Sir, if you continue to argue that Dust Devils are 105k melee XP an hour (+12k, making for 117k XP an hour with a summon), I will have to regard you as a misinformed idiot. Dust devils are nowhere close to that. Dust devils are nowhere close to even 90k XP an hour, the turning point for zombies being better then slayer. Meaning that even if you continuously slayed dust devils, it would be better to train at zombies. And slayer is STILL around 50k XP\hour for the average player, regardless of how fast you think dust devils are.

No, they don't. Did you read the entire thing? My quote is taken from that post. When Mod Benny is talking about your 'opponents drop value', he means that as long as your opponent loses over 25k, you will get better drops. But the values are MINIMUM BOUNDARIES.