compfreak847

That how much your opponent loses in PVP has NOTHING to do with the drops you get? I see people saying 'dood, i killed some guy skulled with full veracs and got 20k then i killed a 1 itemer with wip and got 1m'. As long as your opponent loses 75k or more, your drops have nothing to do with what you get - it all has to do with your time in a hot spot etc, NOT what your opponent loses!

... :shock: ...... =P~ =P~ 16 ram slots...and its $450...Gentlemen, I believe I need new pants. That's nothing, they've got servers over at some high end graphics places that'll beat the crap out of any of those. I was looking at screenshots, think 64 core processers and 2 terabytes (Yes, terabytes) of ram. I don't even remember how many petabites the hard drives were. Anyway, vista will run fine on any of them, probably faster then XP would anyway.

What do you need it for?

All of my numbers do not contain HP XP, as I have told him, so I'm guessing they don't. That's one dust devil every 13.8 seconds. Given the time it takes to heal, alch, and pick up drops, I find it rather hard to believe.

Now I am utterly confused. You say they are the 3rd best crimson charm dropped in the game, yet you say you can only get 8 per hour!? You honestly believe that in killing these for an hour results in only 8 crimsons per hour? And that is when you're lucky? Well... it seems I could conclude that you either ignore anything that opposes what you say (when it is right too) and that you are very misinformed. You do not need to use piety, with only superhuman strength you can get up to 26.2k Slayer xp/h. I only keep bring it up due to your unwillingness to see that you are wrong. You said yourself that you still need to get 90k melee xp/h from Slayer to balance it out.... I have shown you that you get over 100k. This goes past balancing and makes it better. Add on to that the approximately 35 crimsons per task and you are well past. I am unsure at how often each task is assigned, but Duradel assigns 24 different monsters. Blocking 4 leaves you with only 20. However, I believe that not each task has the same chance of being assigned. Even still, I get Dust Devils more often than 1:50, although I will concur that some people may not. Also on Zarfot's guide, out of 318 tasks he received Dust Devils 16 times, which is about 5% or 1/20. So far I have given you three examples of different tasks, all of which are around 100k melee xp/h without a combat familiar. The following tasks without piety, but instead superhuman strength are above 80k melee xp/h: Abyssal Demons - 84k (no familiar) Black Demons - 94.2k (no familiar) (Baby) Black Dragons - 83.2k (no familiar) Dust Devils - 104.8k (no familiar) Gargoyles - 92k (unsure, pretty sure it was without) Nechryaels - 88k (With I think) Spiritual Mages - 90k (unsure) Waterfiends - 84k (no familiar) Eight out of the 20 tasks have over 80k xp/h, many more tasks have even higher rats of Slayer xp/h, but they involve the cannon so I do not know the ratio of ranged:melee experience. Also, these tasks were among the more commonly assigned except for Nechryaels. Your numbers are terrible. Waterfiends 84k XP an hour? That alone proves how far off you are. That would be 166 waterfiends per hour, roughly 150 charms. with piety and the absolute best equipment, I can get around 95. Piety would be, if anything, a bit better then slayer helm + superhuman strength. Feel free to ask Inushkant, but I never quite managed 150 crimsons per hour at waterfiends. Dust devils 105k? THere is no possible way you are getting that XP. I get significantly less then that at zombie monkies with better equipment and far more combat time. Same for all of your tasks, abyssal demons 84k per hour? What a joke. Those numbers are NOWHERE close, and EVEN if you assume them to be true, the average slayer XP is far off of 90k per hour.

I was agreeing that veracs was better then godsword (as is whip + defender), but testing it reliably would be next to impossible.

Still, using them as the figures for slayer 'xp' and 'charms' per hour is horribly off. They are the best slayer task I can think of.

Since when was Slayer determined to be useless? Slayer has never been or will be useless. You still disagree with what I said about Dust Devils, I even gave picture proof from Zarfot's guide that they are faster. Up to 28.3k Slayer xp/h only melee, no combat familiar. Not only is that 113.2k Melee xp/h, that is the full 37.7k Hitpoints xp/h, rather than the 33.3k from Zombie Monkies. Why are you using the assumption of a combat familiar, I specifically mentioned many times this is without one. You could use a Unicorn, that alleviates the need for the time taken to heal. Personally, I don't alch drops, as when I slay I am on the Lunar Mage book, I pick up what I can, bank it, alch later. Also, you seem to say that the 5% difference in the Mask/Ammy is such a big difference. That is an extra 4.95 levels, so 4 when rounded down. you may hit 1 damage higher and a little more accurately. You would also wear say a Helm of Neitiznot, increased damage by maybe 1 more. Slayer mask and Fury will have a +8 str bonus and still 15% to levels, hitting approximately 2 higher, and it has +10 to the attack style being used. They are practically the same and the 5% difference isn't alot. I do not use piety on every task, but I do on most tasks. 30% less experience.... I doubt. If you think that you really need to do some tests or read Zarfot's rates as you claim you believe to be true. I use the 10% strength prayer as a minimum on every Slayer task I do. Want an exmaple of why it isn't 30% slower? Black Demons, no combat familiar using Superhuman Strength is up to 22k Slayer xp/h, With Piety it is up to 24.3k Slayer xp/h. That is a 9% drop, far off 30%. And look, that is 97.2k Melee xp/h, with no familiar, and that task will last over an hour anyway. Another example; Gargoyles, 23k Slayer xp per hour with Superhuman Strength. 25k with Piety. That is an 8% decrease, and you can gain up to 100k melee xp/h. You are even now saying Slayer is less than 50k melee xp/h, I have provided alot of evidence to the contary, you have provided none on the amount of Slayer xp/h. I never said it averaged faster, but on some tasks you can get over 96k melee xp/h. Again, I never mentioned averaging over that during Slayer, but that it is possible on some tasks. The time to finish a task, receive a new one, bank and get to the next place takes less than 3 minutes easily enough. You also get more than 8 crimsons per hour at Dust Devils. A task of about 150 will get you about 35 crimsons and takes well under an hour to complete. At 4.5k each crimson when bursting, that is a saving of 157.5k. You will even expect maybe 10 gold, 5 green and a couple blue. How can you honestly think 8 crimsons is high also? As for not picking up charms.... i'm sure the average player would. Unless you also want to tell me you think Summoning experience is valued at 0 also. Would you PLEASE shut up about dust devils? Yes, they are the 3rd best crimson dropper in the game; SO WHAT? I've had 1 dust devil task in the last 50. Averages matter. A single, tiny variable does NOT. 8 crimson per hour is LUCKY; and at that rate you need 90k XP per hour from slayer to balance out. Most player probably will not see HALF of that; most of the do not even use piety. At that rate, slayer is less then HALF the XP as other methods. Can you get dust devils, one tiny task out of all the slayer monsters, out of your head? :roll:

Raptor Jesus Christ that would be awesome. The whole "chop my tree and I'll chop you" doesn't really apply to pvp worlds because you run a high risk doing that. I'd love a world where the rule is "Be polite or the people you annoy send you to lumbridge for a time out". Bin. Go. That is possibly the best idea I have ever heard. I would LOVE if there were a couple of safe PVP worlds, with PK anywhere. That would be AWSOME :o Seriously, I have never heard that good of an idea in a long time.

It's really all about how immersed you are in the game and yes, back when I did massive amounts of grinding I liked watching something at the same time. It was like "wow, I'm watching [insert show that I wanted to watch but never got around to watching] AND gaining exp, AWESOME!". It doesn't matter if there is no immersion, it's just grinding. All that matters is getting that next level and eventually reaching that goal. I'm still playing the game, I'm just trying to make the ride more enjoyable. And when you think about this that's generally what people do. Either people chat on IRC or in game while they grind to make it more fun, well I decide to watch movies (and IRC in some cases). Now, once that goal is reached, once I'm doing stuff that doesn't involve crazy amounts of 5-step repetition (like quests or monster hunting) then I'll pause the videos and stick with the game so I can get all the immersion. I really don't care what experience you get from the game while doing something else and my original gripe with whoever posted was that he claimed that one method for training was some how lesser because it was afk-able, to which I explained that all skills (especially slayer) are afk-able. Heck, if he likes AFK training, he could just sit there and click attack for the monkeys - he'll slow down his XP somewhat, but it will be like slayer and he won't be AFKing. I see it as a plus, not a minus -.-

Why do you insist on saying that he is the only person that can get high Slayer xp/h. He is not the only player who uses piety. Piety is also not a 25% boost to experience necessarily, and not every task you use piety on either, and example is Kalphites, no point using piety here. Regardless of maxed combat, you are seeming to be biased. A played with 80 attack/strength/defence is not going to get that high a Slayer right. I never said anyone would and you don't need to keep saying that. However, a player with those stats is also not likely to get anywhere close to that rate at Zombie Monkies either. At that level they are also unlikely to have a decent combat familiar, further reducing experience. I only mentioned one task, and without the aid of a combat familiar it can be faster than Zombie Monkies. I know it is unlikely that you will get a string of these tasks. You say Slayer experience shoudln't be counted.... why not? It is a skill like the rest and experience shouldn't just be discounted. Because we are arguing against training slayer; therefore, considering slayer XP when slayer has been determine to be a useless skill is a bad idea. The value of slayer XP is arguable; some would value it absolutely zero, like me, others would value it enough to receive much lower XP in other skills. And dust devils are NOT faster then zombie monkies, in any way, shape, or form. You are in constant combat with monkies; at dust devils, you are constantly picking up drops, alching drops, and healing with guthans\BTP (because we are making the assumption that you are using a combat familiar), plus only a +15% bonus from slayer mask vs. 20% from salve ammy. But I'm done arguing about a single task. You forgot Hitpoints I assume? 100k melee xp is 33,333.33 Hitpoints xp, on top of the 10k experience from the familiar that is 143k Overall. When I said Slayer can get over that, I was referring to Overall experience, which is completely possible. Look at this: Maxed stats and piety yes. However as he said at 80 could get up to 3/4 rate (maybe a bit lower even). The average person who is willing to train Slayer to raise it, isn't going to be doing for just a little while. Only 1 of those tasks is below your 12.5k Slayer xp/h rate and that is Mithril Dragons, uncommon but short task. Even Steel Dragons are faster and that is simply melee only. Getting approximately those rates is 26-30k Slayer xp/h. Even at you illogical 30% reduction that is 18.2-21k Slayer xp/h, greater than what you say. Illogical? Tell me, do YOU pray piety on every single melee slayer task? Otherwise your already down 30% XP. Is the average player trying to decide if they should train combat or slayer going to be all 99s? Are they going to pay anywhere close to that amount of attention? Again, no. For the average player, slayer is less then 50k melee experience per hour. Zombie monkies = 110k XP, -40k GP Slayer = X XP, +50k GP (If your not using piety... With piety, ~10k GP) Avansies = 40k XP, +400k GP 10 hours of slayer = 10X XP, +500k GP 8 hours of Monkies + 2 hours of Avansies = 960k XP, +480K GP 10X = 960k XP X = 96k XP per hour. You can't argue that slayer, WITHOUT using piety, gives 96k XP per hour. We'll try again, with piety. Zombie monkies = 110k XP, -40k GP Slayer = X XP, +50k GP (If your not using piety... With piety, ~10k GP) Avansies = 40k XP, +400k GP 10 hours of slayer = 10X XP, +100k GP 9 hours Monkies + 1 hour of Avansies = 990k XP, +100k GP 10X = 990k XP X = 99k XP per hour. Considering that I can't even get that at monkies, I highly doubt you are going to average that doing slayer with all the time spent banking, going between tasks, and the average XP of most slayer tasks. Even with your fabled dust devils, you still aren't beating that. And dust devils are around 80k XP, not 99. If charms are factored, the numbers become VERY slightly better - at most, your getting an average of ~8 crimson per hour of charms. With each crimson costing 4.5k per burst, that's 36k profit, making for 1 hour of avansies over 10 hours of slayer, and reducing XP of zombies vs. slayer to about 90k XP vs. X - slayer is NOWHERE close to 90k xp per hour, and 8 crimsons is high! Not to mention that many people don't even pick up the charms :roll: If you find slayer enjoyable, go ahead and train it. But you ARE wasting enormous amounts of XP, time, and money.

Actually i did a test with my friend who has 99 def, where he tanked boss while i damaged her. He's good friend so it's easy to trust him. The test : had some bad things where i forgot to wear verac gear (i wore god items for KC) to kill, and i forgot to record GS after i paused first kill :wall: :wall: But i will do another video as soon as i can: this time it will be way better. See, you'd have to have too big of a test range though - obviously you'd be in regular gear praying piety etc, but you'd have to have 100s of kills before you got real, clear data.

I mentioned that he was maxed combat already, but I do also use the fast methods for training Slayer. Runecrafting, while not really anything to do with this, (I admit i'm not the best) but using the abyss (before Summoning), I could average 2.5k essence per hour making natures, some of the time exceeding this. However, just because you can't get as much per hour at Runecrafting, why does that mean sSlayer should instantly be 30% lower, that makes no sense. And you continue to misunderstand me. AS YOU WILL NOTICE, I said he could get more XP, as he was maxed combat and slayer, using the absolute fastest methods possible, with piety pray. Piety alone is at least a 25% boost to XP, which would roughly make up for the 30% difference already. Continuing on, if you would actually think about my post, you would notice that I have been emphazizing that Zarfot plays at a level of intensity far above that of the average player - I pride myself on nearly perfect efficiency, yet Zarfot achieves considerably more. When I am not paying attention, my XP rates drop by 20-25%, making for a perfectly valid point. You continue to misunderstand me. I'm not saying that this is the average and that Slayer will always be like this. I am pointing out 1 example where the experience possible per hour is greater than that of Zombie Monkies. As for getting Steel Dragons, if you really are going for fast Slayer experience, those should be blocked anyway, Iron Dragons and Skeletal Wyverns are about equal in xp/h, but I choose the Wyverns as I prefer the charms dropped, and hence I have blocked Iron Dragons. While Mithril Dragon are slow experience, the numbers are extremely small and they are rarely assigned. Have you, yet, noticed that the XP from the tasks you mentioned is still nowhere close to zombies? You would be doing VERY well to get 80k XP\hour, and I doubt you can get much more then that. Even with slayer XP, which shouldn't even be counted in this debate, you are still getting slower XP then Zombie monkies on a SINGLE task. And as I've said before, ONE task is ENTIRELY meaningless. The average is ALL that matters. I hit two 40s in a row on zombie monkies in 5 seconds - does that mean zombie monkies are anywhere close to 230k XP an hour? Does that have ANY relevance to the XP rate at zombie monkies? No. Slayer isn't a matter of "clicking at that level", this is far different from Runecrafting where the clicking is vital to fast speed. Sure, someone in the 80s won't get that much xp/h for Slayer, but they won't get that much for Zombie Monkies either. As for the mistake with 120k, I don't know where I got that from :-# sorry about that then. So far from what I have seen is you trust Zarfot's rates and that they are accurate. However, you then say (put simply) that Zarfot is good at this game, that the xp rates should be reduced by 30%. As in fact he admits that he can average about 30k Slayer xp/h, take off 30% that is still 21k is it not? Assuming you get 100k melee xp per hour and 10k from your familiar. That works out to approximately 143.3k Overall xp/h. Even averaging at only 20k Slayer xp hour, you are getting 126.6k Overall xp/h, but if you include Summoning in that it would about equal the Zombie Monkies. They are equal in xp/h, and if you do train fast Slayer is faster. The only difference is that the experience is split over many skills. Also unlike Zombie Monkies, you don't lose money, the specific amount made can't really be calculated. I don't really get this post, the point where you added 100 and 10 and got 143.3 kind of lost me. I think your trying to say that slayer is over 143k XP per hour, but with a profit, which is horribly off. Slayer is 50k XP per hour, tops, for the average high level player paying the usual amount of attention. The idea that slayer can get over 143k XP per hour is completely ludicrous.

only when your opponent is eating.Since this rant came out, so has PVP worlds, giving the AGS a real use - but before that, PVP with eating was ONLY in bounty hunter, where virtually no one actually fought a fight to the death with a godsword. The other 90% of PVP with a GS was without using food, making the SGS better. So no, the statment that AGS is better for pvp is totally off.

MSB is better then crossbow on low defence monsters in members, but better on high defence\PVP.

Doing a real test at Sara would be bordering on impossible - there is no way you could isolate enough variables, unless you recorded each hit then used the timing for calculations of average damage. But the godswords speed means that you miss out on fewer hits when running or eating, your stats and prayer would vary wildly, if you soloed you would die quickly, and with a team your numbers would probably go off - Testing at rock crabs doesn't prove a whole lot either; who's to say that Zilly relys more on her defence (which verac's doesn't affect) instead of 'armor' bonus, whereas rock crabs rely on their 'armor' (hard shell) instead of defence (This would seem to be true; defence is 3/5ths the factor in deciding if magic spells hit, and although it is very simple to hit rock crabs with even a very low magic bonus, Zilly is very hard to hit even with max mage bonus). Frankly, I think whip would outhit godsword and possibly veracs, but there's really no way to test.

Yeah, although he's saying that for himself, at 99 slayer and maxed melee, using piety and whatnot for the absolute fastest. Obviously someone with melee stats in the 80s-90s who wasn't praying (Not using piety alone would account for the drop in XP) wouldn't get anywhere near that - especially when very few players can 'click' at that 'level'. I've found him fairly reliable with numbers (although I generally can't go as fast as he does, courtesy of my bad internet connection). But I think the average XP of 50k is, if anything, a little high - bandits is around 60k, and that doesn't count banking\getting tasks. And to a poster who said that if I barely get 100k at zombie monkies then it isn't as good as the '120k' I am claiming, I'd like to bring up these two points: #1, my summon gets roughly 9-13k XP per hour for me by itself; I've gotten 113k XP in an hour with it. #2, I said 110k, not 120k, which is almost exactly what I get there, give or take 3k.

I apologise about where you mentioned the salve ammy (e). In the context of where you said it, I had thought you were referring to Dust Devils still. Yet you say this was of the Zombie Monkies.... then you admit to have based your results on wrong rates. You said with all those bonuses, you don't get 100k melee xp/h at Monkies, yet all of your calculations and assumptions where based upon a 120k xp/h rate. I read through the entire guide again yesterday to make sure of what I was saying, I read through it again today. Nowhere did I see him say that the average play will only get 12.5k Slayer xp/h. I do however see that he says using these strategies you can average over 20k Slayer xp/h, I also came across this: I am not maxed combat, but I do know what I am doing and I get more than "slightly" higher than 12.5k Slayer xp/h on average. That is based over a variety of tasks also, from Black Dragons, Skeletal Wyverns (among the slowest) up to Scabarites (2nd fastest task in game). The reason why you can get this much experience at Dust Devils is due to their low defence and reasonably high hitpoints. This is especially apparent when you use the Slayer Helmet. Zarfot even claims that with a Geyser Titan he was able to get a bit over 30k Slayer Xp per hour. Without he said he was able to get up to 28.3k xp/h from solely meleeing. Yes; notice that I said that he could get more XP, as he was maxed combat and slayer, using the absolulte fastest methods possible, with piety pray and some seriously scary clicking (Ever seen his timings for runecrafting? I can't get within 6 seconds of his average runs, and I pride myself on being efficient and good at clicking); meaning that the average XP for the average player on his way to 99 would be significantly (i.e. 30%) lower. Now while tasks do not have enough assigned to last an hour, that is still the experience rate during the task. It is even possible to get say 134+ Dust Devils twice in a row. These 2 tasks combine last about an hour and will get you 28.3k Slayer xp/h equalling 113.2k melee xp/h. So yes, it is possible. Personally, I believe the "best" way to train is not necessarily the fastest way, but most efficient. We have been through this before; Slayer is nowhere near the most efficient, and you cannot pick one task and say anything about it. It's been at least 40 tasks since I last got dust devils; my last 3 tasks were 60 steel dragons, (Forgot how many) iron dragons, 7 mithril dragons. From an XP rate, my hours of slaying were terrible - but that cannot hold true across all of it.

You obviously misread my post then. My numbers are from personal experience, and they are not far off at all. I admit my stats are not 99 99 99, but they are close at 94 94 94. I use superhuman strength prayer on every slayer task except a few, and on those few I use piety. If you're use a salve ammy (e) for them, that is your first problem. Super setting every 5 minutes is too excessive also, and while it would increase experience per hour, it isn't quite worth it at that rate. Simply saying your averages are correct, doesn't make it so either. What is even more hypocritical is you saying that you respect and agree for Zarfot's numbers. His numbers are higher than yours also at 70k+ melee xp/h on average. Again you misread my post: "Picking out one particularly good task as the 'average slayer XP' is a terrible idea, and completely invalidates your argument." I never said that was the average experience. I never expect to get 100k melee xp/h on every Slayer task, it would be foolish to think so, or for you to say I do. As for the last tiny bit, that is so stupid. Seeing as you misinterpretted what I said (purposely or accidentally, doesn't matter), and because you misunderstood, everything else I said is immediately wrong? Not everything I posted about was specifically the melee xp/h rate. Could you actually read all of my post first before you disregard the rest because you misunderstood? I'm not going to argue the validity of my XP and profit values; I am quite confident they are correct. Your entire argument against mine was completely based on those two values; if they are what I claim, I am correct; if they are what you claim, you are correct. You will notice that, according to Zarfot, the average player will earn 12.5k slayer XP per hour, equivocating to 50k melee XP. Sure, if you are maxed combat and know what you are doing, you may be able to get slightly higher then that, but not much over a long period of time. I'm not sure what you meant about the salve ammy (e); perhaps you could suggest a better amulet to use at Zombies? I was also using the super setting every 5 minutes etc. to emphasize that I was doing everything possible to maximize my melee experience, which leads me to greatly question your claim of 'over 100k XP per hour at dust devils', when I could not get that much with better equipment, prayers, stats, pots, and direct combat over a period of several hours.

Thank you for repeating a significant portion of my posts in a condensed form. I already covered this; if you find it fun, then it is the best way for YOU. But not necessarily for everyone else; in fact, by most people definition, the 'best' way to train combat is the fastest. I personally think that fighting in PVP is the 'best' way to train combat, but you won't find many people agreeing with me.

So you can use them outside of PvP worlds? Another reason for me to avoid castle wars... Yes, you can. There's a video of someone at (ironically) castle wars, barraging away with the new spell. I'd us it in fight pits - switch to staff for 1 barrage, go to veracs and fight.. It might splash a lot on boss monsters, though.

Your information is correct, but your logic is not. Longsword special isn't as good as it is thought - it frequently hits zeros, and usually hits low. DD++ is a far better alternative - its easy to switch and spec without wasting any time. And, obviously, d scimmy delivers more damage and XP in every situation.

That about sums things up, but most of them are general monster weaknesses, not specific to the corporal beast. I'm still wondering if there's a catch to that new barrage spell, though - it seems too good to be true :shock: . I can't wait to try it out at pits...

Not another thread... gold: 2k gp green: 7k gp blue: 40k gp crimson: 12k gp It's what I pay in time\cost for them when bursting\doing waterfiends; I'd get 99 summoning right now if they ever came out priced like that.

Staying out of the flaming, I must admit I agree - I'm finding out that the godsword aint all it's cracked up to be. It is easily beaten in PVP by veracs, OR whip + defender\DFS. I would guess it would be superior at sara as well - that range defence, or lack thereof, really isn't that big (Verac's brassy instead of torag's plate). It's why I sold my SGS, and I haven't looked back yet. I might pick it up again someday if it ever falls below 20m; the special is quite handy, but its not useful otherwise.