hohto

Stalin: http://markhumphrys.com/soviet.html http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_peop ... talin_kill http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/stalin.html There's starting range from 20m and ending to a lot higher numbers depending how you count it. Hitler: If you count all the victims of WW2 to his toll, he wins. However a world war can never be started by one lunatic, so counting them to his kills is false. We can as well blame Stalin (giving west parts of Poland to Hitler), UK leaders, French leaders, Japanese leaders, Mussolini and so on. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_peop ... orld_War_2

We got written laws, we got moral norms and we got loopholes in laws. Now, we're once again in a situation where we can talk what's right and what's wrong. Mr. X was born in Libanon but gotten the citizenship of one country that belongs to the European Union. A forgein intelligency agency kidnapped him, tortured for months and later released without any charges. What kind of a country can send their agents to kidnap a citizen of an European Union party country? How can they just release him after torturing for months and not get punished for mistakes? In January 2007 the jury of this European country ordered 13 agents to be arrested. I'll later reveal the countries and names in this case, but now I'd like to get some comments. What would be a right thing to do to this country that sent those agents? Is it right to send agents to kidnap a citizen of a foreign country, torture him for monts and then release after realising the mistake?

24.6.2007 At the moment it looks like I won't take 2.1k total same time. Just haven't had any real motivation to train my weaker skills, not even if I have had all the materials to level them. To 99 farm I currently need only 560k xp more. For fletching I'm doing well. Around 370k to level now while writing things. With prayer I can't say I would have started real training yet, but I got an ace in pocket there ;) After these levels I don't exactly know what to do. Wouldn't be too far from all skils 90+, but rc or agility don't sound too great. 99 WC, fishing or slayer wouldn't be even that bad, but don't really know do I want them. Slay would take some time, but at least it wouldn't be as repetitive as the other skills. 90 Crafting or 9x smith wouldn't be that bad either. Oh well lets look at the future after few weeks...

With that logic everyone should be at least jailed as we OCULD be terrorists, rapists, pedos, massmurderers, communist espionages or Saddam Hussein clones. At least our laws say that you're innocent until proven guilty and I assume the same logic is in every other democratic western country too.

Red flag isn't banned even at these forums, even tho under that flag has been killed many millions more than under the swastika. We got usernames here with Stalin at them and communist images at avatars. Would you allow them? Same time I was told to remove swastikas from my signature which weren't even in 45' ankle like the nazi swastika is: I wasn't allowed to use the sign of our air forces just because it could be seen my some as a nazi symbol. Banning a symbol is ridicilous in my eyes. You don't get rid of an ideology by banning it's symbol. That just gives it more mysterious and attractive image. Banning it wouldn't stop its use at underground pressings, internet or during vandal attacks. However would that mean that many historical pictures (even in school books), movies, buildings and so on would become illegal? I personally laugh every time someone claims that we got freedom of speech in western worlds. No, we don't. We have larger scale of accepted things, but there still are many things we can't think of, accept or protect. Is it freedom of speech when you can (and some have been) get jailed for denying holocaust while you can deny whole WW2 without any concenquines? How can we talk about freedom of speech and same time put same time protect or ban some historical events with laws? That isn't freedom of speech.

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=480329

You mean piece? :P

56th pick: AKIM ALIU Interesting pick as he was born in Nigeria. However he played in North America, but still. However even if he ever played in NHL, he wouldn't be the first nigerian born player: we had Rumun N'dur. Has a nigerian dad, ukrainian mother and learnt to skate at the age of 10. 115th pick: Niklas Lucenius First drafted finnish player this year. Went 1-2 rounds later than thought and was a suprise to see Aliu, one dane, one swiss, 2 germans and around 10 goalies go before first finn. Oh well it was known that this generation wasn't too good from us and that our junior program should get updated as soon as possible.

Germany was in so bad condition during 1920s and 1930s mainly because of WW1 and its peace treaty, that if it hadn't been NSDAP, some other radical party would have taken the power. It could have been some other right wing party, it could have been the communists or it could have been anything. And talking about the starting of WW2, it could have been the Soviet Union. After all they went against Poland just few weeks after Germany. If they had striken first, could it have been UK&France against them?

Like I predicted, a lot of trades were done before drafts, Backlund and Eller got drafted at the first round, no Finns were drafted and who will be the first 3. Not like you should have been a new Nostradamus for that, but still. The most interesting names from 1st round are Esposito, Sutter and Eller in my eyes. Last year everyone were sure that Esposito would be the next number 1 draft. He had made a lot of points and played really well, but his last season was a total failure and he dropped a lot. Sutter is part of the best hockey family ever, so of course his on everyone's lips. Some say his skills didn't get him his draft, his name played a big role too. Eller is probably the first Dane ever to be drafted on 1st round and in Denmark people are putting a lot of hopes on him. The next rounds will start in around 1ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâý hours and if anything special happens, I'll report it here. I also try to give some details about drafted finns. edit: Cherepanov's draft number doesn't really have anything to do with his skills. If NHL and Russia had gottne a good deal about players moving from Russia to NHL (Case Malkin) or Cherepanov hadn't made a deal with Omsk, he would have been drafted earlier. At the moment it's uncertain will he ever even play in NHL, even tho he'd have all the skills to do it.

624,334 xp to go :ohnoes:

Think these facts could go to this thread. Hope they make even someone to think again their views on WW2 war criminals... * After the failure at Stalingrad and During the Soviet Union's operation Bagratio (spelling might be a little different in other languages because of translittering) they captured in total around 650,000 soldiers, 300k in Stalingrad and 350k during Bagratio. Not too many survived. You can google for more info what happened. * We hear every week about death camps and zyklon-b. Many seem to forget diseases and starvation which we partly can "blame" the other side of the war. Even jewish people admit this http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... story.html * Germany did not create concentration camps. They had been used by USA and Britain before AND after the WW2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... ed_Kingdom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... ted_States * According to some sources, USA lost no civilians and UK lost under 100k civilians during WW2. Germany lost 780k and Japan 953k. The Soviet Union lost the most, but mainly because of their own acts. http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/wwii.html * In certain western worlds this holocaust-hocus-pocus has gotten ridicilous. You can deny whole ww2 but you aren't allowed to deny holocaust. Here's some list copypasted from Wikipedia. That law is also watched at least some how, you can ask Irving for example about it. Country Minimum Maximum Austria 6 months 20 years Belgium Fine 1 year Czech Republic 6 months 3 years France Fine or 1 month 2 years Germany Fine or 1 month 5 years Israel 1 year 5 years Italy (law against racial discrimination) 3 years 4 years Lithuania Fine or 2 years 10 years Poland Fine or 3 months 3 years Romania 6 months 3-5 years Slovakia Fine or 1 month 3 years Switzerland Fine or 1 year 15 months http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4733820.stm Ridicilous if you ask me. That many western worlds don't even allow historians like Irving to get "false" answers. Note: I didn't deny it, I'm just pointing how western world works in some cases. Also reading http://www.scripturesforamerica.org/html2/jm0053.htm could open your mind. Remember that every coin has 2 sides and winners write the history.

Eugenics isn't anything that rare in western world actually. Just use google to find out that even our democractic goddess USA has been doing some of that stuff. Second, even after WW2 they kept doing some researches with living human beings, mainly blacks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study For the Scapegoat thing, it's not that black and white situation. Of course he did take "few" steps too much, but almost everyone everytime seem to forget the fact that the jews declared a war on Germany and drove them even deeper chaos after the ridicilous ww1 peace threaty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea_Decl ... on_Germany He was nothing compared to the war criminals who bombed Nagasaki and Hiroshima with Nukes or the ones who made Dresden into a fire hell. In my eyes those were a lot worse than what Hitler did to UK civilians for example.

All major political parties had their own "private armies" and at worst times it was almost like a civil war at the streets of Germany. Second, do you judge leaders by the amount of votes they got or what they did? With that logic Saddam would have been one helluva good leader. Weak in which way? Their army wasn't that superior in 1939 and they used a strategy which was perfect for their equipment and suprised the enemy. In my eyes it was one of the best strategies in whole world history. Britain and France had promised to defend Poland's intependency and got into war that way. "Evilness" had nothing to do with it.

To me it is that simple, I don't care if the guy split the atom he was a piece of trash. What's your opinion on American president(s) and generals who planned the camps for Japan-related people during ww2 and who ordered nukes to be dropped to civil places? What about those who turned Dresden in a flaming hell? What do you think about Stalin and his policies?

43,9 % In the last elections. In my eyes that's a good achievment in multiparty elections, no matter what. It gets even better if you look how divided world and Germany were. Blitzkrieg was a super tactic for certain countries and using it wa a great idea. No matter how you see it, look how quickly their first enemies fell. For political murders, they were far more common in the Soviet Union. I don't get your last line "llies went to war with Germany because of the evils of Nazism." Please explain that.

Getting closer, only 4 small levels to go :thumbsup:

Graz on 93 :) Pst, little tip: I use nature amulet on calquats

Yea I know my sense of fashion, I've been told it many times :o

Nor it helps the countless others who have been in same situation or even worse. We open our minds and donate thousands when one of "us" gets kidnapped and probably murdered after abusing her/him, but not when the same happens in Africa or Asia.

More like Saddam*10. Just compare Saddam's trial to what happened in NÃÆÃâÃâürnberg.

That was one way to employ people, however. Without that Germany would have suffered from sick hyperinflation, he at least gave some job. Second, should current countries stop their researches on certain things and take down their armies? After all they are there for one certain thing: war.

Suicide was probably the best thing in that case. If he had been caught by the allies, his death would most likely been cruel an humiliating plus if he had stood tall in the "trial", he would now be a martyr. Many a lot lower ranked NSDAP members got senteced to death or really long jail senteces, what would have been done to him? The winners write history and judge the ones who lost. In my eyes the ones who dropped nukes and ordered them to be dropped to Hiroshima and Nagasaki wer a lot bigger criminals than Julius Streicher for example. Streicher got sentenced to death, the other ones are now war heroes. If you don't know who's Streicher, here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Streicher

704,686 xp to go :boohoo:

Wouldn't really affect to the army of Sweden :XD: