Punitive_D

I think mining's more fun the way it is. I also like variety, and on that basis I would be against making mining more like woodcutting. I like things in runescape to be different, not the same.

I confirmed this the hard way -- I sold a couple santas and put in a min offer for 3A helm. Got it instantly. For those who have been wanting 3A mele, the coming days may be a chance to get it relatively cheap.

Sorry to flame, but we rarely see posts this stupid on TIF, especially from someone who claims to be a high-level player. The game is what it is, but the game is not static. The game will change in the future, and it can either change for the better for for the worse. Most who like the game would like it to be the best possible game. So criticism of the game isn't just "complaining," it's suggestion for improvement.

What makes melee "seem" on the verge of collapse? I've seen no sign of that. This post seems like disinformation.

Before the GE, I frequently sold four-dosers for 15k.

In a way, this is a good point -- I was doing a routine garg assignment the other day and got a maul drop. Put it in GE figuring to get the usual 40k or so and was shocked to see that they're going for about 300k. On the other hand, that's only profitability in the absolute sense -- the 26k trick doesn't make monster hunting relatively more profitable because the 300k I got was inflated coins with less buying power. Also, if you figure in the opportunity cost of forgoing tricking, monster hunting (along with everything else) probably is less profitable than it was before.

Sure, it seems that the 26k trick is an unmitigated disaster for the game, but I've learned over time that very few things in life are all bad and no good. So I started thinking, is there any way in which the 26k trick has made the game better? And I thought of one. Before the 26k trick, anytime I wore any kind of expensive gear, newbs flooded up to me asking how they could make money fast. They don't do that anymore -- now every newb in the game knows how to make fast, easy money. So newbs don't bug me anymore. That's positive. Perhaps there are other silver linings to the 26k cloud?

You're not a big enough newb yet. Try tricking 24/7 -- you'll get your big drop.

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to second this excellent, clearly stated point and add that what makes this form of moneymaking even worse is that it is not an intended form of play. If Jagex had added some great new moneymaker that was loads of fun, everyone could switch to it and things would be ok. (Of course, balance still would be better.) But now Jagex has created a Hobson's choice -- players must either engage in a boring, sucky form of gameplay or be at a competitive disadvantage in the game. Nobody tricks for its own sake -- they tolerate it for the reward. Setting up a system that pressures people to do something that isn't inherently fun is a sure way to kill the game.

You would need to show a couple years of history to make this meaningful -- how do we know this isn't the usual summer inflation?

Last I saw, 3A range had crashed but 3A mele had not. EDIT: Confirmed -- just tested it by putting 3A mele helm in GE for max, and it sold instantly. (Used proceeds to buy a couple santas at mid.)

How about this: No drop from killing anyone who's ever been on your friend's list or anyone whom you've pm'ed?

My theory is that we are seeing the commoditization of partyhats. People don't really wear them much anymore. If you're not going to wear it, you don't care what color it is. I think that more and more, partyhats are becoming partyhats, without regard to color. I haven't charted it, but I'll bet over the last year or so, the lower valued partyhats have risen relative to the others with the higher valued hats going in the opposite direction. Eventually, I would guess that all partyhats would have a comparable value.

In the teeth of the confirmed things we've been hearing from Jagex, this sounds like wishful thinking to me.

Not what me and my friends have been seeing around RSOF/w2. Right, it was still bought out as of this morning, but not now.

FWIW, I just sold a few santas, all above mid, so that "crash" appears to be over. 3A mele helm still bought out.

You make some good points. Of course you're right that the sytem is broken -- that is beyond dispute. And of course pkers would like to profit, and it seems right that good pkers should profit. I agree with you also that, ideally, pk losses would approximate pk gains. But I'm not as pessimistic as you that this can't be done. Your earlier post mentioned pooling. Why would it not be possible for Jagex to track pk losses and just tweak the system so that drops (overall) roughly approximate losses? Massive rewards could be reserved for killing your target. This would give true pkers the ability to profit but would cut out tricking. Everyone who kills other than his target gets nerfed drops. What would be wrong with that? Also, I think that Jagex could tweak their drop forumulas to blunt some of the present perverse incentives.

This is so beautiful in its simplicity. Seems to me to solve so much. 26k trick would be gone. There would be no inflation because money in would never exceed items out. I must be missing some reason that this needs to be more complicated than this. I've known a lot of true pkers, and they pk for the kill. Real players will not quit if reward is nerfed. The newbs who are tricking now would go back to constantly asking me "Hey, Pun, how u make money?"

Divide that number by about 1M, and you'll be closer to the truth. "Good riddance," I say.

This point might mitigate the harm that the trick might cause, but don't mistake that for a justification of the trick. Slayer is an intended part of the game. It is designed to be (and is) fun in its own right. People will (and do) pursue slayer even if it is not all that "profitable." The trick is not like this. The trick is an accident -- a mistake. It was never intended. It has no intrinsic merit as part of the game. It is pursued only for the reward by those who seek to gain an advantage in the game, never for its own sake. If the reward is removed, the trick will disappear. (For philosophy buffs, the difference between slayer and the trick is the difference between a "natural" good and a merely "instrumental" good.) Anyway, even if you are right that the trick might eventually inflate itself to irrelevance, that does not make it a good thing, it simply would mean that the trick carries the seeds of its own destruction. But you should not compare slayer to the trick -- there is no comparison.

Yep.

So you tested something out for "a bit," and tell us that we're overhyping? Exactly -- I'm going to take the word of those who have spent hours and hours tricking. They wouldn't do it if there weren't a huge payoff. As I've said before, the trick is not the kind of thing that is inherently fun. If there weren't a big payoff, nobody would do it.

Didn't your momma ever teach you that two wrongs do not equal a right? It may well be that pking is messed up. The problem with the 26k trick (along with the new cash drops) is that it threatens to mess up the whole game, not just pking. I don't blame you for taking advantage of the 26k loophole in the system -- that's what people will do. It's up to Jagex to close the loophole. I'm sure they will. I just hope that things don't get out of hand before that happens. I don't think things will get out of hand. One good point that you've made (although I'm not sure that you know that you've made it) is that there is a built in governor on the inflation rate. Once inflation drives the price of legitimate drops so high that real players can make more money farming legitimate drops, people will turn away from the 26k trick. The key is the price of the statuettes -- once inflation makes the price of statuettes seem relatively small, then the 26k trick will be like picking flax -- you can make some money at it, but only newbs will do it.

The only rational basis for this position is that you hope to gain (relative to other players who don't trick) by keeping up with inflation by tricking yourself. I can understand why you would take that position, but most here are speaking from the perspective of the greater good of the game, not from narrow personal interest.

I sold all of my dstones into that mess and bought a santa -- ftw!