ArtemisCatal

Personal attacks much? That was really rude and had nothing to do with her work... and way to judge someone on what, a 5 min video where they are probably really nervous on anyway. Cut them a little slack, they could just be appathetic and not care at all, just punching a time card. If they are not updates you like, doesn't mean that no one like them. edit: "you" are not "we" so stop projecting what "you" want and saying it is what "we" want

Maybe we can be like the suite life and get teh 99 sailing skill or get 99 mage in waverly place lulz (my siblings watch too much tv -.-) No, it could be worse, so much worse... two words... product placement: Hannah: look screechy girl friend and bowl headed boy who is my friend, I found this really cool game to play online. Screechy girl: oh, this really is cool! *squeals* *twirls hair* Bowl headed boy: This is the funnest thing Ive ever seen on the entire net. >Hannahs brother walks in Hannahs brother: Yeap, Runescape Is An Awesome Game! -------------------------------------- entire tween audience runs to nearest computer and Runescape collapses into a heap of tween rubbish... No one is spared R.I.P Runescape.

I dont understand why everyone is so convinced that soul is next in elemental workshop. It seems like to me that cosmic pants should be next, followed by gloves/gauntlets of nature, boots of law bringing, a sword of death and a cape of soul to top it all out. Just from a personal perspective, that seems much more complete, seeing as the series started out with ELEMENTAL. If it hadnt started out with elemental Id see heart, body, mind, and soul, etc, in some order, but it didnt. Anyway, there are a lot of arguments for the soul alter being in several different places (I especially like the idea that it is the ritual alter), but Im going to vote with it being the source of power of aprosandra/goo that is forming the poison wastes. Im going to say that the poison wastes are spilled soul goo, just because I can. Icky, nasty soul goo. Seems like that would be good stuff to convert nice, normal dwarves into evil chaos dwarves with.

I mean, its just ridiculous the lengths that people go to. Take dungeoneering for example. People are like "These shields arent any good...with all the time it takes to get the dungeoneering level..." Its just ridiculous. Back when slayer came out, nobody was like "Sure it would be cool to get whips, but think of all the TIME i spent training the skill! Is it even worth it?? I could make more money by merchanting for the same ammount of hours it takes to get 85 slayer!" Unfortunatly, I think that would be the exact response of a lot of people if slayer was released now. I just shake my head, look at my inside out house, and keep playing the game for fun. I advise you do build an inside out building for yourself and do the same. oh, and :P to anyone who gets the reference. (welcome to the asylum)

thing is, even if the looks of our characters are changed, that won't change turn-based combat where you hit the opponent in the exact same way over and over again. No graphics can change that, unless a massive amount of new animations are created, and adapt to hits being blocked, strikes to different body parts etc. etc. It'll look terrible, even if we have photographic realism, due to the non-direct combat of runescape (no asdw controlling, no strike area or type control). a game engine, or gameserver update is very necessary for reducing lag, not for better graphics. The is a lot more to this game than combat, so I don't see how totally un-runescaping runescape combat with asdw control, strike areas, type control, etc would make the game look any better. If what you want in a game is fancy combat controls, you should find some other game to get your fix of that. I've always thought runescape combat was just fine. I like it plain, simple, and straight forward the way it is. Personally, every runescape item could be replaced with a brown paper sack, and I would be fine with it. I play for how it plays, not what it looks like. But one thing I'm emphatic about is to leave in a low graphics option for people who don't have the internet or the computer to play a "fancy" game. As long as they leave a safe mode and I can still play it on my thrown together peice of junk computer, I'm down with what ever it looks lilke.

Well, I more see it as the "look what money got me" staff, but yeah, this soured this for me more than anything else. Thanks Jagex for putting an item in game that remindes me every time I see it what RL money will get you. I really thought you were commited to not allowing that. I don't begrudge anyone going, or all the cool stuff they are getting at runefest, but I do feel bitter over this in game item.

I thought Dream Mentor was very hard. Probably my own fail at the time I did it, but it seemed much harder than I thought it should have been. It just to bad that we can't go back and fight quest bosses again to reavaluate what the best technique on them are. With such a variaty of levels people complete different quests, it's really hard to compare one persons experence with another person's.

Why is it that simply being excited about something runescape related it hype? We generally like quests, we've liked what this developer has done in the past, this dev blog made it sound interesting, and we inticapate that we will like it and hope it comes out soon. I think a reasonable responce if the above mentioned is true is to be excited. Do we have to be pessimistic about ever udate?

Well, I was just thinking the other day that they missed a great oppurtunity. They made those law and nat staffs, which are sorta useful/not useful at all depending on who exactly you talk to. But they could have made an Astal staff! That would have been awsome for people who are perpetually on lunars. I think it would have more uses at least than the law/nat staffs.

I voted woodcutting, but I thing it would be better to have a "wood arts" guild, incorperating woodcutting, fletching, firemaking and Construction. Maybe even include farming, seeing as you can grow trees. It might be a cool thing to get to start, you have to plant the trees in the guild, build a fence of logs around the guild, build buildings of wood in the guild etc. Could be a quest, or minigame, or something. edit to Aeil below: Never played it. I've just always thought that these skills naturally clustered together and would form a good guild, and it's within a players skills to build it.

Why is it ridiculous? You're engaging in enough hand-waving here to propel a sailboat. An item that can only be obtained with money gives an advantage to those with money. It is Jagex themselves that said they didn't want money to be a factor in who owns what. So why get pissed off at people who hold them to their word? The argument that it's okay for Jagex to do something that's unfair to poor players because life is already unfair to poor players is nonsensical. It's hardly an advantage when said item doesn't do anything. And I don't think Jagex thought people would like it so much. I don't think anyone would be paying 75 pounds only for a banner. it fills up one space in my treasure box. voila, you now have a use for the item. Not that the use matters.... because the argument is not about what the item is, but the very exsistance of the item and how it is aquired.

Not only is this utterly beside the point, it's not even necessarily accurate. Are you a lawyer? Somehow, I doubt it. That analogy is too asinine to even bother responding to. The heart of the matter is that Jagex is supposed to be doing this to thank all of their customers. Deliberately doing something so petty and divisive is not justifiable using the "life's not fair" canard. Actually, I have indeed studied business law and will be studying it further. If you feel Jagex wronged you, you could try to sue, but their terms clearly have them covered. For one, when you purchase the ticket, to my knowledge it doesn't state that you are also purchasing a redemption code for an item. Secondly, Jagex clearly retains possession of all Runescape accounts, and therefore all items on them, so they can change them on a whim as they desire. They aren't selling you an item. Even if you have to buy something else to get the "free" item, the item isn't legally sold. And how is the analogy asinine? The point isn't that "life isn't fair". Don't put words in my mouth. The point is that calling this flag a "real world advantage" is utterly ridiculous. And even more so when you consider that real life undeniably conveys several real advantages. The flag is only a real world advantage in the loosest sense of the term... like picking up a dropped dollar bill and keeping it is only stealing in the loosest sense of the term. This has nothing to do with law and everything to do with ethics. If the financial meltdown was not enough to show you that the law is deficient to make companies do the right thing, then nothing will. It comes down to yes, Jagex can do what ever the hell they want with our accounts, but that they should keep the promises they made. Tomorrow, for you stanch defense of the Jagex company line, they could add to your account 100 godswords. But seriously, should they? Is that in keeping with the game philosophy? Is that build fun and goodwill in the game? Does it make the game better? Or does it just ruin the game for some people without any benifit to the game as a whole? These are the essential questions of balancing the game.

In how far you progress in the game, time is the great equilizer, you can always one day hope that you will catch up. edit to qeltar: trying to make the world more fair, or at least trying to keep it for getting less unfair, is a battle I've been losing for pages now, and not even just on this thread. edit: Jagex owns our acounts, we just lease them. They can edit any of our items they choice. That doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it legitimate with the contract/social contract we have entered into with them.

Why do people keep trying to make value judgment on other peoples items! I cross stitch a bunch, and have a whole collection of cross stitching books. I'm sure you wouldn't care a flip about them, but I love them. And the argument is not about staff, it's about the real world money being used to get in game items. It's about them saying one thing and doing another. It's about breaking the wall between real life and game life. The item itself is of no consequence. And five dollars and you leisure time may not be serious business to you, but my money and my leisure time are limited, and as such, I try to get the most out of them I can. And I agree with qeltar, the arguments saying it's not money for in game items are just playing semantic games You completely missed my point, yet gave it more validity. I'll spell it out for you: It is an item. A useless status symbol of an item, much like an expensive care that gets less Mpg or Kmpg. People will gawk at you, and you will smile, but at the end of the day, all you have is something that will be replaced with the "next big thing" in a few years. It is worthless and nothing to get worked up over. As for the "real world money for items" bit: you are a moron. In case you can not tell for whatever reason, I'm being blunt. It is a reward for buying a ticket, which would make Jagex assume that you are going to attend the event. A mistake on their part? Yes. Them offering items for cash? No. They are simply making assumptions that, if someone buys a ticket to an event, they will go to it. (SHOCKER!) The transaction is for the ticket. The item is meant for attendance. Jagex will learn from this and give out any future items via event booths at said event. It is their first convention, so mistakes are bound to happen. tl;dr You cannot judge the stance of an issue held by a company by 1 occurrence. As I said, Mountain out of a Mole hill. Now, to solve your immanent post, filled with emotion unfounded: It will boil down to, "Your opinion is different then mine, so it's wrong! *unjust moral examples* *personal attack* *more false examples* *up-up-down-down-left-right-left-right-b-a-fireball motion into your Super for finisher*" So, here is my response: You need to calm down, take a cookie, and eat it. While eating it, you need to examine your priorities and why you are wasting your precious, limited time expressing an emotional opinion about something that will not matter next year because Jagex will hold another event and that event will give out another item. Only time will tell if Jagex learns from this mistake. Oh, and don't respond to me. If the above failed to capture your attention and show you just how much you are exaggerating the situation, (Making a mountain out of a mole hill) then a further post will also fail to do so, even if I spend more then 5 minutes on it next time. No arguing with the illogical and irrational. To anyone wondering why I care to make this post: The last 10 pages. Well, if I miss the point you miss the point too. If you don't get that it is about having the benefits of real world money shoved in to ones escape from the problems of real world money, then you are not going to get it. They said they weren't going to do this, now they have. I'm not happy. Did it ever occur to you that I find this debate fun? You are very ready to tell me how to spend my time, and how to value my life. And if I have made some personal attack somewhere, it was unintentional. Im discussing and dissecting an issue hoping to give some road map to resolving the diverseness it has caused. So please, stop telling me what to do, that I am wasting my life, and get on with yours. edit: You pay for the ticket, and all the things that go along with the ticket. It's like saying that you pay the ticket price to go into disney world and all the attractions inside to see are free additions. You don't pay to get in the door, you pay to see all the sights, opportunities to ride the rides. The items you get are some of the items bundled with the ticket.

No, they don't. But you know what? Jagex didn't *need* to make it impossible for these people to get that flag either. They didn't *need* to put something so obviously stupidly thought out into the game at all. You're using a form of argument that basically boils down to "life sucks, so it's okay if people make it suck more". Rather spurious. This was supposed to be an event to *thank* customers, wasn't it? Since the flag and the event must be purchased together and cannot be obtained in any other way, the flag and the event are collectively $120. Any attempt to separate them is silly game-playing. If you aren't familiar with the custom of giving gifts as a present to those who attend an event, then there's reason arguing this with you, but anyone with any understanding of social customs should know that rewarding attendees with an additional commemorative bonus is NOT the same as selling the bonus for the entry fee. Also, legally, Jagex could easily change their mind about the flag. They can not do so about the ticket. A purchase is a legal contract, and in this case, it is your money for a ticket to their event. It is not for the flag. If they were to change their mind about the flag and remove it, it is well within their legal rights. Because they aren't agreeing to sell you a flag, they're only agreeing to sell you a ticket. Gift versus purchase. There's a huge difference. dictionary.com gift: Property, money or asset that one person transfers to another while receiving nothing in return. The exchange of money preclude it truly being a gift. A memento of showing up, an token of appriciation, what every you like, but it isn't a gift. Anyway, the issue so much isn't with that they are giving people stuff, it is what they are giving out (namely the ingame item).

oh, I hope they are lurking, and taking notes. Some really good stuff is being said on this thread (and I'm not just talking about my self-important jibber-jabber). And yes, implementation is the problem <--- Jagex read this. :thumbup:

Chances are, a statement from Jagex doesn't help much. I mean, you've seen the picture of Jagex making their statement that it's not RWT/microtransaction from a few post earlier, and that doesn't stop this us from discussing either. :thumbup: I would keep mum on this matter as well, if I were Jagex. It works great, honestly. When's the last time you saw someone posting about wintumber trees being unfair before this Runefest discussion? Not on tip.it general chat, almost rare on RSOF. So, we should all just wrap ourselves in Orwellian-type ignorance and just be happy with things. Sorry, I just don't roll that way. edit @ ravian: If you don't admit something as a mistake you don't learn from it. You keep making the same stupid choices over and over again. Unanimous support that it was a mistake is not necessary. The person/people making the mistake just have to realize it. Maybe this was what they intended. Maybe it isn't a mistake. I think it's a mistake and express my opinion in hope they will relize it is a mistake.

I can be agreeable to that. Ill even be willing to try not to be pessimistic about the chances of it actually happening, because I would really like to see that happen. But someone around here has the quote that those who refuse to admit their mistakes are too proud of them. This whole debacle is disappointing from start to finish. Peoples given up apathy toward trying to do anything to change the unfairness of life disappoints me. Every time some accepts the unfairness of life and give up trying to change it in what every way they can, then life gets a little more unfair. And yes, I do keep allowing myself to be dragged back into it. I can't seem to leave well enough alone. I'll admit to that being my failure (one of many, I can asure).

Why do people keep trying to make value judgment on other peoples items! I cross stitch a bunch, and have a whole collection of cross stitching books. I'm sure you wouldn't care a flip about them, but I love them. And the argument is not about staff, it's about the real world money being used to get in game items. It's about them saying one thing and doing another. It's about breaking the wall between real life and game life. The item itself is of no consequence. And five dollars and you leisure time may not be serious business to you, but my money and my leisure time are limited, and as such, I try to get the most out of them I can. And I agree with qeltar, the arguments saying it's not money for in game items are just playing semantic games

I have always held that if you fight fire with fire everyone just gets burned. This is my polite, well thought out responses. And I know they read these forum. I know they are lurking here somewhere. RSOF are a mess, some (maybe a lot) of the Runescape community is a mess. But they are tossing gasoline on the fire, and I just can't help saying "are you sure thats a good idea?" They are being obtuse. And there are plenty of times what everyone wants is not what is best for them or what is right. Jagex, I fear, in an atempt to be "closer to the people" has lost perspective. They see a lot of opinions but can't see the bigger picture. And I've said my peace so unless something I specifically want to answer comes out, I'm not going to add any more to this deafening roar. I appriciate everyone who has taken the time to read my posts. Good luck Jagex. I'm not gone, but I can't say I'm happy. Atleast the game is still fun. Edit (don't know why I thought I wouldn't think of somthing else): Beating a dead horse is pointless, but I still think this one has vital signs, so I'm going to continue to try to feed it warm gruel and water (isn't that what you do for sick horse?)

So, how to save face? Now that you've gone and stepped in it....might as well go all the way. Just give the flags to everybody. They will regard them as useless, a stupid gesture to trick them, or perhaps just too little too late, but nobody will be able to say that you didn't try. Perhaps being a bit more open with your plans would have made things smoother, but you are reluctant to share your ideas after your country has become very cynical since they lost their original most popular sport. Aw... and in my insomnia induced craziness I had just hot glued candles to my head just for you. But the analogy is both subtle and app, and I agree with it. They do need to do something about this. But not just to save face, but to save something more intangible, maybe goodwill, or philosophical coherence, or something (I’ll keep trying to figure out exactly what I want to express). But it is more than face, at least is seem so to me. But I agree, they have put themselves in a very bad position with this. And I would also say that being open with comunications will mollify the people who can be mollified, and the rest couldn’t have been mollified anyway, and so shouldn’t be allowed to dictate policy anyway. At some point you have to just ignore the people who can't see the forest for the trees. edit to timmmmmm post: I would say to the jmod: just because you are allowed to doesn't make it a good idea. And there is always the everyone jumping off the cliff example that was the hallmark of my childhood. I know they can do whatever they want (though it give me unpleasant flashbacks of arguments with my mother). But they had given us some self-limiting princlples they had decided to live by, and I had thought I could trust those. Excuse my Naïveté of actually trusting what I'm told. I guess I will just have to find a new game if I don't want to have to see what real life money can gain you when I'm immersed in fantasy trying to escape all that.

The free stuff they get for attending the event is not the point. The real world cash = in game item is the point. The total 180 in philosophy with out any reason, or any statement, or anything is the reason people are upset. Real life items are fine, great, give people mountains of stuff. But they didn’t have to put an item in game. Let other games that have not made a philosophical commitment to there players put in game items for real world cash, other games are not my concern and what they have done has no bearing on this at all. There is a difference between real world stuff and Runescape stuff. This is basically breaking the fourth wall between real life and Runescape life. And do you really expect a jmod to come out against this, publicly on RSOF at least? They work to produce a wall of solidarity that is almost ludicrous sometimes.

The car lease analogy falls apart. Sure we lease our runescape charactor from Jagex. Part of our contract with them has to do with updates, etc. But when we take our car to have its oil change (a la, jagex update), we don't expect them to do a total 180 on previously stated service policy (in this analogy, not to paint our car) and suddenly paint our car yellow. That is what they are doing with this money for in game item, which most people understood them promising not to do. edit to below: no, it just means you have virtually no meaningful control over you life if you happen to live in the United States. Litterly the day before your 18th birthday, you could be arrested and forcably returned to your parents home for trying to board a plane and fly to England without your parrents permission. Most police departments probably wouldn't do it, but your parents have no legal ramifications from doing what is nessasary to restrain you from going beyond what would count as assualt, which when its parent 'disciple', is pretty liniant statute. And there is nothing protecting you from your parent confinscating all of your money at any time because basically you can't own property till you turn 18 (though there is some protection for money you actually make yourself, but you still legally don't have discression how to spend that money till you are 18) I'm not saying other places don't have it better, I just know this is the reality of the situation where I live, should your parents chose that.

So what do we think of this new policy? It's the first time they admitted doing more regular no-update weeks, since they cancelled BTS's. Well, I think it might have been a bad idea to tell people this. Some of us understand that this is just a target that they try to meet, but other people are just going to take it as the verbatim word of the way Runescape will be, and will just complain when things don't happen when they perseive that this new schedual has promised. Though, I guess people rant when there are no updates, rant about updates when we have them, so it doesn't really matter. I think people are reading it wrong. I think Mod Ajd is simply saying we've had 3 weeks of updates, we are now having 1 off. Not saying we are now doing 3 weeks update 1 week off pattern forever more. To bad it doesn't matter what was meant, only what other people are going to read into it. I didn't read it as hard and fast time table, but other people have already , and will continue to. Hence the bad phrasing/wording/idea. edit: this just confirms my idea that twitter give you just enough charactors to hang yourself (missunderstanding wise) and not enough to make sure you say what you mean.

So what do we think of this new policy? It's the first time they admitted doing more regular no-update weeks, since they cancelled BTS's. Well, I think it might have been a bad idea to tell people this. Some of us understand that this is just a target that they try to meet, but other people are just going to take it as the verbatim word of the way Runescape will be, and will just complain when things don't happen when they perseive that this new schedual has promised. Though, I guess people rant when there are no updates, rant about updates when we have them, so it doesn't really matter.