ArtemisCatal

I agree, you should never hold on to a principle so tightly that is strangles you. But, you should at least have a logical, well thought out reason for the change. Having your hat on fire is a good reason to take it off. If someone can tell me why this in game item for Runefest was need, why it over comes the previously held policy, then I will crawl my moral indignation back into the hole from whince it came. But all of this could have been done with out this. It just feels like they have thrown away a principle that some of us took very seriously, for very, very little gain. Not only that, but like they did it with out even thinking, with out even realizing what it looks like. Or maybe better said how some of their players would FEEL about it. I supported the RWT updates for this reason: Jagex had two principles: they were aginst RWT and for free trade. Then it happened that because of credit card fraud, that they had to do something about RWT, something more, something permanent. So they abanded their principle of free trade to keep the game alive. They knew we'd not like it, they knew we'd be upset, but they gave us the reasons, and you either excepted that this was the new order of things to keep the game alive, or you didn't. I respected that, i respected the hard choice it was, and I respected that they were open and honest about the change in the way of the RS world. And someday, if it comes to it, and the only way to keep runescape alive, is to inact some type of micro-transactions, and they do it with openness and honesty like the RWT updates, then I'd probably stick with them through that too. Oh, and no matter what the holiday event item, I always love them. Alot of thought and time and work goes in to them, and I was taught growing up that you value and apreciate a gift, if not for the gift itself, for the thought behind it. In short: Prove to me the hat's on fire edit: oh, and I know why I'm doing this. I have insomnia. I read the new books from the library already. This is an issue I care about. I actually care what other people have to say about it too. Maybe shake some people out of apathy. Talking about it makes me feel better also. (when of course the flame throwers aren't out, I like my hat)

I like change, but you are implying that change should mean totally abandoning principles that you previously made promises to hold to, then i think that is wrong. The day it is items for cash, no matter how silly or stupid or pointless the items, it is a change in philosophy that not only do I not agree with, it is aginst what was previously expressed as their stance. And it doesn't matter what the item is, it is an item that we will never have, for what ever use we chose to put it to. Just because it has no value to you, doesn't mean it has no worth. I'll try not to put worth judgements on your items, if you wont put worth judgements on mine. Whether pixils or real life, all items only have the worth someone is willing to invest in them/ pay for them. But really, I have no problem with them having this event (edit: actually, I'm glad they are having this event, just wish they were pulling it off better.). I have no problem with it being out of my reach. In my opionion the price is a little high, but it is their event, and I don't have a complant about them pricing it as they choice/must. I'm perfectlly fine with people getting a mountain of free stuff from the event. I'm not ok with it bleeding over to a permenate in game item that was purchased with money. p.s. and my comment about reading back was just about my post, not the whole thread. In said previous post I had elaborated on some other arguments previously used in the thread, and why I felt they were not valid. It was not an meant to sound as if it applied to the whole thread.

Uh, Members costs 6 bucks a month. There goes your argument. You might try reading my first post a few pages back about how memebership is a totally different thing. To summerize (though do go back and reading it please): having or not having the money for membership at any point in time does not change your ability to get an item. If you were f2p when godswords came out, you are not out of luck, you can always hope/save for enough real life money to get members and have your godsword. Membership confers the same items no matter when you have it. Member's items are perpetually avalible. This isn't.

The money for items in game period is my issue. I expect that people in real life that have money to have andvantages. The people who go will probably get goodies that I would love to have. I don't have an issue with these things. But I can just walk outside and watch the nicer cars go by or go to the store and see things I can't afford. You can't go anywhere in life without seeing the advantages that money brings you. I come to Runescape to spend my leisure time escaping from the real world. This item, whether someone walking around, or seeing the hole in my POH box reminds me of Real Life now, the thing I was spending a little time having fun on Runescape trying to forget. I really thought that the developers held a philosophy that would keep my escape from Life truly an escape. I guess I was wrong. edit: the reason I think some of us feel emotional about this, or at least the reason I'm so sad/upset/dissillusioned is that this is a crack between our Runescape life and our real life. All things being equal, we would love to go. But all things aren't equal, and we can't escape that even in game. It will, at one time or another, be shoved in our faces. It would be like building a vacation house to escape the crime in the city, then come to it one weekend and find it robbed. It would never be the same after that. The safety would just never be the same. I can't aford a vacation home, so I make do with Runescape.

This is real life money equaling an in game item and I am extremely disillusioned with all of this. And to the people calling us selfish and childish: You need to get a grip. This world of ours is unfair, horribly, wretchedly, so much of the time. But we all start out Runescape exactly the same. Sure, real life issues affect how much leisure time a person has, but still, our Runescape character is our chance to escape the things going on the big bad unfair world out there and have a little fun in a world where we have far more control over what goes on than we do in real life, and where real life economics doesn’t affect our standing in game. This is a stab in the gut to some of us who thought that Runescape would be the one place we could truly escape our real life situations, a place where our real life situations would never bleed over. If we didn’t move up the ranks as fast as others, at least we weren’t’ missing out on things that could never be gotten again. Instead, now we get to see people walking around with something that they got because of real life money. And holiday items are not in the least the same. Not playing RS at the time is totally different than lacking the money. And just remember, that each time someone says that life isn’t fair, and stops trying to work toward a more fair life, the world does get a little more unfair. And one more thing, membership is different. At anytime in the future a person can get membership, and get the exact same items any member account has to day (except for the wintubertree *shakes fist*). If I win the lottery the day after runefest, I still won’t be able to get a Runefest banner. Not because I didn’t play the game at the time, but because I didn’t have the money at the time. One who can’t afford membership now, can always hope they can afford it latter. If I was f2p when godswords were released, I can still buy membership today and get a godsword. It's not a time sensitive. edit: sorry if this does not make my usual sense, I'm actually quite upset. edit2: in fairness I should mention that unless I win the lottery (and I don't gamble) I couldn't afford the $100+ for this item, let along the several thousand it would probably cost to actually attend. Though not for lack of wanting to. If anyone has a winning lottery ticket they aren't using...

bilrach isnt a demon, first of all there are 5 generals, and i am under the impression that kalgerion is the leader of them all maybe i misinterpreted, but yeah bilrach isnt a demon No way is Bilrach still a human. Check out the dates, this guy is more than a hundred years old and still going strong. Bilrach is a Mahjarrat. He is mentioned in Zemouregal's notes on Mahjarrat. (the set of notes that end with- Zemouregal: This is me. I am awsome) That seriously cracked me up, which is why I remember it so well. Edit: I'm pretty sure the notes are from the Curse of Arrav quest. edit2: Looked at the quest walk through. It is Curse of Arrav.

I still say that if you guys are starting to run out of food on bosses and dying its time for you to start farming potatos and mushrooms. Salve eel and edicap potatos heal 320, and thats only lvl 80 something cooking. So there is still a lot of room for bosses that hit constantly and need a good supply of food. Sure it takes time, but there is better food in the dungeons than you guys are talking about. It just takes time to make and gather. Those potatoes have already saved me from that stupid ice fiend ice attack that like sucks all of my lp every attack. Spam eating fancy potatos can be your friend. It would not suprise me to find out that upper lvl dungeons will force "fancy potatos" upon people just to keep up with the long battles with constent hits.

Isn't it more like: We don't have any thing more planned but the things we already have planned, which we may or may not actually have planned. After what we may or may not have planned, we may or may not have more things planned, but post any ideas here, and we may or may not think about the things you think we should have had plans about (like, you know, other dungeons!!). Also, we may or may not be discussing the possibility of giving you a straight answer in an undisclosed location. Also, we have our heads so far up our new skill that even we are suprised that we can still use a computer. (even I had to read it twice to keep why I said straight)

I'm sure jagex put him somewhere nice and inconvinent. Or at least as inconvienent as they could seeing as its an fairly small spit of land. Jagex wouldn't give us anything that was TOO good, what are you thinking, thinking it would be right there by the dock! I figure he's getting a good drink in the pub, or warming he's feet by the volcano, or maybe wandering in the jungle trying to figure out the language of monkeys, and could be anywhere! Look up a tree?

I've done that plenty of times and i've never gotten that title. unless praying doesn't count. I would have thought for the title David, praying would pretty much be required.

The point he is trying to make, which is a valid one, is that a lot of people play this game because they can't keep up with the specs of other games, havent been able to for a long time, and they know it. You guys are totally underestimating how many people out there are playing Runescape because they simply cannot play anything else. I'm totally an example of this, and doubt my exprience is at all unique. Just because you think very little of a couple hundred dollars for a new computer, for a lot of people, that couple hundred dollars is going hungry, losing their home, putting gas in their car, etc, I can play RS for a month for less money than I can spend an hour at the theater watching a movie. Rs is a cheap way to spend your entertainment dollar. Given the fact that you don't even have to own a computer and/or an internet conection (library, work, computer cafe, neighbors open wireless conection, etc) to play the game. They are leaving people behind with these updates. Should the people they are leaving behind NOT complain/ try to get some remedy?

Just a special random found only in Zanaris. No need to be alarmed. You don't have to do anything. The insanity of the fairy realm passes on its own Edit: You might to be interested to know that this is one of several Zanaris only randoms, which also include a frog and a choir following you around. I never skill in Zanaris for this very reason. These special randoms are more frequent in Zanaris than randoms are any where else. oh and below :P insomnia has to be good for something

Is it physical graph paper or some sort of program, out of curiosity? Physical graph paper when I'm not on my wide screen lap top (which is most of the time seeing as this laptop has... issues with... well being on) But on the wide screen I have the game on fixed or resizable, then I have the other half of the screen with an excel spread sheet that I have made the columns and row have the same size so they are square. Then I set the grid lines to off and the make gridline button on the tool bar to thick outside lines. Then each room I make a 4 by 4 grid outlined by thick grids, with each room one row/column separated. For a door way I make a 2x1 connections square. I can put information like key needed, etc in that space. Then I can use the 4x4 grid in the room to map where resources are. Basically the only difference when I'm doing it on graph paper is that I’m making the marks with pens. Same grid pattern (I'm using like 4 squares to the inch graph paper that I had left over) Ok, so I realize describing this is sounds very obsessive well, I'm very detail oriented, and this is my obsessive keeping track of everything. I might be able post one of my spread sheets to see my map if you would like. Let me see if this stupid computer will stay on that long. edit: ok, lets see how badly I can mess this up these are three dungeons I have done. red color means I used up the resource. The last one was glitched, and had some rooms off the right side that I couldn't get into the because I couldn't find the key, despite having two other keys in my inventory. Go figure.

I've only been soloing, so I don't know about the max moster you can get. But I do know that with my 86 cooking I can make salve eel and edicap mushroom potatoes that heal 320. So, I would assume that if you put the better fish that you would get something healing more (with 99 cooking you can make a moray and edicap potato, so I would say that would be it. I would love to know what it heals). So, with such high healing food, it would seem very possible that some very big... suprises await the first lvl 130+ team as they make their way closer to the bottom.

Well, either I'm getting more complex dungeons with harder monsters, or have a sieve for a brain. Seeing as I can really only get on runescape late at night, I'm voting on the sieve for a brain. Ah well, maybe my method will help someone. It has made it easier/more enjoyable for me at least.

Skill area icons on the minimap would be a very, very welcome change. I suggested a dynamic map on hover over of "?" it says what key is needed which yes would be a welcome change I'm I the only person who is making maps of the dungeon, listing each resource? Like I draw the rooms on graph paper/excel (if i'm on my widescreen laptop) then I add in like f8, for a tier8 fishing spot, or m7, for a tier 7 minning spot, w10 for tier ten wood cutting, c9 for a tier 9 fiber spot, etc. I also mark the farming spots, rune crafting altars, prayer altars, ranges, etc. Maybe I just have a bad memory, but I realized within only a few dungeoneering lvls (and a few of the larger/more complicated dungeons with bossesIi needed food/armor for) that I needed this help. I just can't remember where the things I need are. Unless jagex makes a very good map that includes all of these features (tier lvl of the resource being of upmost importance), I will just continue to map the dungeons on my own. I can also just mark out the resource once I use it up. Once you develop a system that works for you the time you spend making the map will be more than made up for by the time you save being able to go directly to the resouce you need.

Master Chef I make fish and mushroom potatoes nearly ever time, and I always get this one. Half the time, I think it's mocking my supper over food preparation. But the salve eel and Edicap mushroom potatoes heal 320! I've survived several battles I wouldn't have lived through (looks at ice fiend thing that has that ice attack) without spam eating these.

LOL ^^ I had a room I couldn't find a key for, and I saw someone else post the same problem. (for me it was only a bonus room, so I didn't think to much of it but the other person couIdn't make it to the boss) I guess next time I'll have to look in the walls!

I had a room for which I could not find a key. Luckily for me, it was not a critical room. You're either having bad luck, or we've both missed something.

Has anyone else notices that the combat triangle seems highly inforced in this new skill? I'm still only lvl 15, but it seems like everytime I fight magers with range, and rangers with melee, and melee with magic the battles.... go better.

I quite like the fact you get xp in the dungeon. I don't see it as a way to train the skill, more as a bonus to train Dungeoneering. This skill doesn't require you to get tons of combat XP to train it, you get the combat XP while training it, and if you don't want to get the combat XP you can also just not fight and work as the skiller of a team. That would work except the combat lvl of the monsters is based on the combat lvl of the team. If you are high lvl, you are going to move up the average combat lvl of your team, increasing the difficulty of the monsters, so if you don't help fight, the whole team is going to have much more trouble with the monsters.

I almost hate to say this, but we all know about Jagex and their crazy rounding problems (see exp weekend). Could the differences be acounted for by some compounding rounding error? Just throwing that out there.

Not true, I'm 100% pure f2p and I've got a herblore door before while soloing. Wow, not even I had gotten herblore door, lol. At any rate, what level was it? Perhaps it saw your level 1 and gave you like level 3-5 thinking you can potion it. If he has one herblore, how could he make a pot to boost it, seeing as the lowest pot is lvl 3, and doesn't even boost stats?

Lorewise, they could break up the area behind the door into 4 camps , for each of the sides, that you get to chose from. Then, instead of running through the kill count to get the the boss, you now go into the "underground, fortifided, carved out of ice, "true" stronghold of the side. After getting the through the dungeon with the peons normally fought to get kill count, you then face the boss, enhanced or not, with a more generous drop table. Whether you have to make do with stuff in the dungeon, or if you get to bring in armor would be up to jagex. Basically, going through the dungen would be the equivilent of getting kill count, then you would fight the boss at the end.

I wasn't even on durring the time of the glitch, but I still have fictitious stuff on my adventure log. I wonder when it is all going to up date. It's missing the dungeneering lvls I just got a couple of hours ago, but It does say I killed the king black dragon three times!! I always knew my charactor was running around doing things when i wasn't on, and now I know!!! I wish she'd do something worthwild, and bring me back hilts and claws and sigils. I could do with some of that kind of help, lol. edit: Oh My!! I just refreshed my log, and while I was fishing monks, I went on a pking rampage and killed 10 or more people. I hope she got some good drops. Edit2: oh no, I refreshed again, and iI just lvl to 1300 total lvl via lvl up to 23 farming. This is an entertainment all its own (btw, i'm 78 farming and 2084 total). Its like Adventure log roulette.