ArtemisCatal

The long awaited Dragon pick is out, that's pretty exciting! So, whats the next dragon weapon item that's going to come out? Kiteshield, shortsword? I can't wait to see some testing on how good the d-pick really is. (I have 99 wc, I so I hope it is as much better as the d-hatchet is, at least.)

Ah yes, Runescape's nickname which is predominantly used by the flock of complete utter morons that continuously fill the rants forum on the RSOF with the most [developmentally delayed] crap that humanity is capable to produce. 1. I'm not sure some of them are human. I think they are proto-humans that have not yet exited their maturation chambers (sadly, some of them are also going to die in their maturation chambers, never to have exit out into the world) 2. Don't insult crap. OT: I think Jagex will subtly manipulate things themselves. They will do something. But I don't think that should or will publicize it. If was them, I would get set some of my workers up with some regular accounts, infiltrate some of the clans as regular players, find of the main acounts and watch their actions. When it showed they were close to selling/selling, immediatly chop the price down to lower than the old price and watch everyone rip everyone else apart as they acuse everyone else of bailing early (oh, where's the popcorn). Not only would it kill the merchants, it would also take money out of the economy, curbing inflation. But then again, I have an evil streak, and think that subterfuge sometimes has its place. And this is one of those places. :twisted: .

Oh no, I use it daily. When I click on it instead of my inventory tab that I was aiming for. :wall:

Is no one else dreading what this could mean? I'm pretty happy the way summoning is (though granted, I'm kinda bummed they took away the tab, but I'll have to get used to it. I've survived the other interface changes, so I think I'll get over it). But what are they going to do to mess up summoning, something, that granted a few annoying bits, is working fine! My bunyip heals me, and comes when I call him. People can craft nats. People can carry stuff around in BoBs, and restore run... Edit: My main annoying bit is that combat familiars don't attack fast enough. And that even familiars that give range or magic exp WONT ATTACK WHEN YOU ARE RANGER OR MAGING AT A DISTANCE EVEN WHEN THERE IS NOTHING IN THE WAY (a la when you are ranging mutated bloodvelds ) :evil: What the Hell are they going to do, and how the Hell are they going to mess up summoning doing it!! :wall: :cry: :shock: :evil: :wall: :!: :ohnoes: -.-

I know exactly what you are talking about. No one believes that adults play on RS either (at least not creepy ones). That makes me one of the rare adult female RS player. To bad even if the adults and the girls all band together, we would still be over-run by the immature 13 year old boys (not to say all 13 year old boys are immature, just the vast majority ). Heck, you could add all the mature teens on the game and we'd still be over run, unfortunatly :cry: . My advice, just keep your head down, play your game, and be honest if anyone asks, and if someone gets out of hand, ignore them. You'll meet up with people that are ok to game with eventually.

I was only really familiar with the Norton, so if the other one is free, then I appologize the error. But, if you are still playing on a computer thats 10 years old (and I still have computers in my house that came with windows 98 installed (one is a 333mhz that I uses to actually be able to play rs on, haven't tried since before hd update)) then things really do crawl to a halt (more like halt altogether). Anyway, I take the crazy women's aproch to security. Got a firewall (both physical on router and software), got a virus scanner, and clonezilla my computer periodically with day to day data stored on flash drives, linux server storage and external hardrives. A computer starts acting up, I just load up my last good comfiguration off my last clone. Time intensive, can be. Effective... has been so far. But my newest computer is also over 3 years old and all my others are frankenstiens of other people "no longer working computers" that I've cobled together into linux desktops or servers. You would be suprised how many people will throw out a computer just because the hard drive fails, or the video card burns up, or ram fails. You can take all the other bits of those computers, put them together, and actually have a computer that works, if you have a little know-how. Cutting edge computers, they aren't, but I can surf the internet, read forums, blog, and play rs. Without these cobled together pieces of junk, I could barely play at all. Don't discount those of us truly on dinosours of computers. And those computers are security holes because you can't use the latest and greatest on them. But I get by. Linux is probably what saves me most of the time. edit: as such, I am interested in how this all plays out. This thing might be neat, might be a hassle.

You could always use Norton Internet Security or McAfree Site Advisor (or both, as I do) to do the background search for you.... Norton and Mcafree are both actively scanning web pages for virus's as a preventative measure to try to stop computers from being infected in the first place. Whenever you do a google search Norton Internet Security and McAfree Site Advisor both insert icons next to the hyperlinks to tell you the security of the website; green tick for virus free, yellow for potential threats and red for sites where threats have been detected. In each case you can hover your mouse over the icon to get a break down of what the potential threats are including viruses in the page code, virus infected downloads available on site, or links to sites with known threats. Furthermore Norton Internet security will often block virus containing web pages that you accidently click on or if you typed in the URL. Just some software you might like to look into for a basic level of security... Both of which cost more than $20. edit: and if you play on a not ever so modern computer (and lots of 'scapers do), both slow your computer to a crawl... you don't have to worry about virus, etc, cause you never go anywhere!

Oh Jagex! Why, oh why, oh why. Admittedly, some of the action you could take together would require 4 hands to complete, but this is a fantasy game. Oh well, it was so awesome while it lasted. I hope they give a couple of them back though, like bone burying. Oh well, que sera, sera. I guess I will get over it... eventually

Bones also bury much faster durring combat, as does cleaning herbs. (I was seeing if chaos druids dropped the new herb, as of last night, they don't, or at least so rarely as to be never)

I'm pretty sure that it's always been like that...bone burrying at least. No, if you were good and buried at the exact right time it wouldn't mess up the cycle, but most of the time (especially with a fast weapon like skimmy), it would interupt the combat cycle so that you would basically miss a chance to attack while the monster was still atacking. Trust me, there is a difference. (I've gotten most of my prayer levels burying normal bones because I hate looking at them littering the floor, both mine and other peoples)

Oh people, you missed the best part of this update (well, besides the chicken, moving the chicken is epic, especially epic if we knew where it was ;) ) You can bury bones, and clean herbs, and who knows what else durring combat without it interupting you!! I was killing chaos druids to try to get a look at this new herb (two inventories and I still haven't gotten one btw) and I noticed that it didn't interupt. Oh, if they take it out now... :evil:

The insider information I am talking about is the information that they will all by buying up x item, and dumping x item. They know that item x will go up, because they are buying up item x, and this information is insider information. It doesnt need to be parsed through an actually rise in demand, when they are creating a rise in demand. Without the insider information on what item they are manipulating, and when, none of this works. It is this inside of the clan knowledge that allows them to corner the market. This gives them a monopoly in said market item, allowing them to drive up the price using the G.E. system. Then they get the information to dump said item. The insider information is all in the timing, in the conspiracy part of the operation. The fact that there is a conspiracy and what the conspiracy is doing causes the insider information. But in real life, all kinds of laws would be crashing down about their heads. Ok all that is really convoluted, I admit, Ill try again Insider information: clan leadership says item x is going to go up This is a separate crime from the cornering the market to make the item go up. Maybe that just made it even more confusing. I know what Im saying, and it really is just a picayune point. edit: (I should have known I could never escape) Being a collusion doesnt stop it from being insider information too. Just like if clan member y told non-clan member z that the clan was merchenting item x and non-clan member z road on the coat tales of the clan without being part of the collusion, that would be insider trading because non-clan member z got insider information of what was going on in the clan, which is, in and of itself a middle man, like a warehouse company for items. By the same token, clan member y comunication to clan member q that item x is going to rise, and that he should by bying it up is insider information too, as being part of the collusion. The clan can be seen as just a warehouse for items, in which they control the items comming in to the warehouse and the items comming out of the warehouse. The problem is, they are manipulating things by lying about what is in the warehouse! The ponzi sceme part comes into play when all the clan leaders bail early, leaving the other clan members with unsold product under the value the bought it. If I was one of these leaders, I would set in my buy orders, then tell everyone else to buy, so that I bought mine first, then Id only have my members buy as it went up and up, then I would dump first, making sure I bought and mine at min, sold at max, while everyone else sold between the two extremes. I mean, if Im going to be a greedy, soul sucking leach on the underbelly of the Runescape economy, I might as well be heartless and cruel too. And I'm going to bed. This is my last musings into the mind of evil for the night. Any more and I will give myself nightmares.

in a ponzi scheme there are no investments actually being made. there is no product. it's just somebody robbing guys to pay back the guys they robbed earlier. it really has nothing to do with the market itself, because the money never touches anything. in clans they are actually do make investments to purchase something. It still has some ponzi scheme like element to it, with the rich preying on those who want to be richer. Just like it has elements of being insider trading, and cornering the market, and a monopoly, and probably half a dozen other illegal crimes that are on the books. None of them quite fit just right, because runescape economy isnt run by the same rules as the real economy. But either way, I think most of us can, through looking at real life parallels, see that in real life this particular game play would be frowned upon as unethical, and likely land you in legal trouble. edit: I disagree. It is true that the insider information is generated by the clan itself, but that doesn't preclude it from being insider information. It would be just like if a company knew it had a big product coming out that was going to wow everyone, so they bought up stock knowing it was going to rise. That is not allowed. And just like in real life, the product doesn't always wow everyone, the stock doesn't always go up, and the people who bought limproots get their comeuppance.

All it has to be for insider trading if for them to have information not available outside of the company. I think that this very well applies. They make trades based on information known within the clan. Sure, people know about the public merch clans, but there are several others, I'm sure, that play it far closer to the belt. And they will be even more secretive now that jagex has stuck its nose in. It's not insider trading in the same vein as in the real world, but I think it would still fall under that law, and possible monopoly/anti-trust laws also.

It's not about what they can do, it's about what they can't do, which is buy limps at a supply/demand driven, unmanipulated price.

And I think some people in this are reflecting their own insecurities onto other people, but i digress... First of all, price cap keep items for skyrocketing up as fast as the merch clans would want. They dont help the clans, they just make them have to work on an item for a week or more, rather than days. Price caps have nothing to do with merch clans. They only stop an item from rising and falling as fast as a merch clan could want. I've never heard of people being cracked down upon by Jagex for solo buying (though, feel free to enlighten me). With the bulk of goods being traded on the G.E., I can't see how any person could, over the long or short term control items, except for a very limited number of items infrequently sold. I think the proof that people couldn't do it on their own is the very fact we have merch clans. Do you think these greedy people would share the cash if they could make it without their syndicate? A natural price rise would be defined as a price rise caused by an actual increase in demand. If I decide to get 99 rc tomorrow, and buy rune ess for it, the rise in price that might be caused by this increase in demand would be natural, because I plan to use and consume what I am buying. If I and ten of my friends did this to get 99 rc together, that's still a naturally increase. Just like if I mind a billion rune ess and sold them to the G.E. Supply went up because I was selling. The same thing would happen if it turned out tomorrow that you could get 5k exp for crafting silk into some new hat. The price of silk would naturally go through the roof, as the demand when up. Its the people who are in a cooperative to buy something up just to sell it back that are mucking up the works. I think the G.E. would work much better than people give it credit for if everyone would just use it as it was meant to be used, and stop driving knives into its supposed flaws.

Yes, and none of them wreck the economy or make honest people trying to buy things cry. Yeah i agree that clan manipulating is annoying but people really have to start realizing that Runescape doesn't take any skill. People make clan manipulating out to be something only a stupid and lazy person would consider doing. Oh, I don't thing they are necessarily stupid or lazy, just ethically challenged. Or at least myopic and self-centered.

Yes, and none of them wreck the economy or make honest people trying to buy things cry.

Exactly! This is what I have been arguing all along.

Oh, I totally agree, Jagexs pvp lose vs gain drop table is totally unbalanced. I never meant to imply that it wasnt. But it doesnt help that people arent pking the way they are meant too. Before this who pvp quantification, people just put on gear and went pk. Now they figure out exactly what 26k worth of gear is. But this is not even the topic of this tread just an aside. Real pking would risk more than 26k. The G.E. isnt perfect, but that does not excuse people manipulating it. Thats like saying, well, the server of this bank has a flaw in it, so Im going to hack in and steal millions, because its their flaw so its not illegal. You just go try to get out jail with that one. Just because something is flawed does not mean you get to abuse it with impunity!!!

This is the Runescape equivalent of organized crime, and they are killing the economy. The 26k trick has caused deflation that has ran the market for slayers and people doing mage training arena, and gdw and how many other legitimate money making opportunities into the ground!! And the merch clans are causing rapid inflation/deflation cycles around items unpredictably. It's one thing when real market forces are at work and people us them. Pking supply prices tanked after pk was removed. When pk returned, the demand was back should re-energizer the market. More demand-prices should go up. If Jagex puts in a new way to train, prices should change to accommodate the items new value. Limproots did not change in real value. They were artificially caused to inflate by a monopoly controlling supply. Then, when they are dropped by these merchants, the supply is artificially increased, causing the price to crash again and deflate. The longer this economic craziness goes on, the more and more people are going to find that the only way to make any real money will be merch clans, because you can't make are reliable income off of slayer or skilling, or tt or anything. I hope this is a sign Jagex is finally realizing this and is going to take some measures to stop it. Now, if we could just get some of the "valuable"/"worthless" junk thing sorted out we could have a real economy. Edit: the merch clans need not skill: they are not following market trends, they are MAKING market trends. Any commonly traded item without a low price cap will do. They are not examining trends and demand like a solo merchant (which I have no problem with). It is the organizing together to make artificial market trends that is the problem.

Very few of them were banned. Jagex was too afraid to undo all the work they've done towards improving the opinions of PKers. Hence rules without teeth. Jagex is too afraid to do the massive bans on gray issues to ever put a meaningful end to it. Only banning a few people will only up the adrenaline rush of risk taking for the rest. The money is too good.

Bug abusers *spits up on screen* you mean all the people using beast of burden in f2p pvp were banned and I missed it?

It will never matter what Jagex says unless they show proff that they are going to back it up with some kind of punishment. I don't think they will. I think it will be one more rule that everyone (who wants to) will ignore for having no teeth.

You are still misidentifying what this really is; it is insider trading. It is unfair. And dont say life isnt fair, because the more people who say it and except it, the more unfair life becomes. These monopolies are destroying the economy for all the people dont or wont or cant join their little crime syndicates. One person using their items to move the economy is one thing. It is the Organized Conspiracy to manipulate the economy and that is insider trading. Its a monopoly that is using its power to bring sections of the Runescape economy under its thumb. That said, I dont see a way of ending it. I dont think mass bans are appropriate. I dont think it can be stopped, and I dont think it will be stopped. RWT had to be stopped because of real world credit card fraud. Unless some ramification of these in game activities filter over into the real world, I dont think Jagex will risk the lose of consumers that the mass bans over what is essentially a gray(ish) moral issue in game will cause. But I think Jagex undermining the clans by manipulating the prices is just turn about being fair play. Regardless, I never bought anything in the old RS economy because I didnt want to support gold farmers, and I buy very little in the New RS economy because I pretty much got in the habit of being self-sufficient. So the economy can go to merry hell for all Im invested in it.