Jebrim

That came later.

In spoiler: pic from finnish rs forum post where SUOMI is asking for people donation him money, in 2009. He had done that for long time before that also, mainly asking from his friend list. Being one of his friends in ~2008 lead to situation where he was just asking for money (please max trade donation!!!), and eventually removing me because I didnt donate, lol. For that attitude he was hated. He had two types of people on his list, genuine friends and people that were only added because they were repeat (or potentially repeat) donators. Due to the number of people donating, he had to delete people frequently and prioritize who he had added. There's no reason to hate just because you weren't a close friend of his. Someone has to get deleted after all to make room for new people.

He was getting slow skills first so it made people believe that he is really going to get 200m all. Not only that, but he was doing it faster than anyone had before (or ever did afterwards). Momentum and consistency are very important and he uniquely excelled at both.

I said 2.4m-2.5m/week. I did a larger week last week so this week being smaller is okay. Atm I'm only aiming to just beat the record and not doing any more than I need to to get that. Edit: Actually just did some math and at my present slower pace I'll still be passing it by 200k-400k. The range varies depending on if I stay up all night and into the next day on the final day.

I was getting upset in my posts a couple days ago for the lack of competition because I wanted competition. I want to see people do well. That's why I encourage certain types of gameplay. I'll certainly try my best if I'm given good competition, but I have a really low opinion in the capabilities of many players. That's why when certain people over the years have clearly surpassed me, I've given them huge amounts of respect and my full support. They're able to do what I cannot. It's why I've supported Suomi and Drumgun since late 2008. I've given donations and my own free time in assisting them because I recognized how unique and exceptional they were compared to other top players, myself included. Neither were maxed yet their heavy nolifing would obviously place them as rank 1 eventually. Drumgun was supposed to get it in the medium-term and Suomi eventually in the long-term. Part of that prediction came true. Drumgun chose to do some very inefficient things which really hurt him but he never slowed down. He's now the player with the most adventurer log days (which I also expected to occur) and rank 3-4 Overall. It's looking like he'll be the second player to all 200m's. I placed my bets with them when they were relatively unknown and other people dominated like Kingduffy, Allar, Yogosun, and Gertjaars. Being a long-term consistent nolifer that doesn't back down from non-afkables or slow skills is what wins. It's a very rare feature. The main point of all this is to say that if I have reason to believe you to be really good, I won't hesitate to say so or back you up. I've been judging top players for many years now and have a pretty good track record imo in judging who'll be successful. Foot and Jabberwoky and Razzeh were all decent competition that at least gave me pause for worry, enough so that I'd actually have to work for it if I wanted to win. All 3 are gone which left a vacuum because nobody else has come forward with any indication that they're capable of providing decent competition. And now it's too late since I'm not far from maxing. So just to be clear, I'm not getting upset from you stating that people will have to work hard to beat me. I'm upset that it's already beyond that point and that I won't actually get any decent competition up until the very end. I want competition, it brings out the best in me. And my competition to them brings out the best in them too, forcing them to become really good if they wanna win. Seeing how rare really good players are these days, more is better. I encourage people to become the best they can be. I run a clan for this very purpose.

A misunderstanding of what exactly? That post was directly talking about the competition for the top spot, nothing more. No need to be so defensive. You said: "But I don't blame anyone who chooses not to play with such an anal attention to detail at such long periods of time, or who would even want to." I've never encouraged constantly paying high attention to detail for long periods of time. I've never said anyone has to do this nor have I said that any player in the game even does this. Your post had nothing to do with competition for top spot... You don't encourage it directly but you certainly like to make a point of praising people who do it. It's a debatable difference sure, but it's pretty clear you think less of 'casual' players. It's a comment directed at all the top players, not just you. You might have a substantial lead on everyone else, but you're not the only top player in the picture. If it sounded like it was an attack on your playstyle, then I apologize because it was clearly not. That said, I'm not sure how saying if people have a negative attitude about closing the gap with the top player is not a direct statement on the top players themselves, but this might've been another misunderstanding. I fail to see how anything less than attentive, prolonged hours of game time could catch up to where you're at currently, but hey, maybe I'm wrong. "nor have I said that any player in the game even does this" It's like neither of you even read that yet you assumed there were people that do. People naturally go into a trance state while skilling even if their focus is not misdirected towards other content on their screens. Nobody maintains complete focus the entire time all day long every day. So frankly I don't understand how you can even refer to such people as existing. I don't do it nor does anyone else. That's not to say we can't maintain fast or perfect speeds the entire time of course. It just doesn't require the constant focus you assume. "You might have a substantial lead on everyone else, but you're not the only top player in the picture." "I fail to see how anything less than attentive, prolonged hours of game time could catch up to where you're at currently, but hey, maybe I'm wrong." There's not enough real life time available in the world for anyone to catch up. At the pace I've been setting since 07 started, I'm set to max in 2 months. If you take a look at the TTM page, the next closest to me is User and he's about a month away and gaining further distance at his current pace, which also happens to be his best pace yet since it's summer and he's got full free time. Even if he magically became more efficient and became the best nolifer in RS history, he still couldn't max before me. There's not enough real life time available to do that anymore. It's just the facts on the state of things right now. http://crystalmathlabs.com/tracker/virtualhiscores.php?page=timetomax

A misunderstanding of what exactly? That post was directly talking about the competition for the top spot, nothing more. No need to be so defensive. You said: "But I don't blame anyone who chooses not to play with such an anal attention to detail at such long periods of time, or who would even want to." I've never encouraged constantly paying high attention to detail for long periods of time. I've never said anyone has to do this nor have I said that any player in the game even does this. Your post had nothing to do with competition for top spot...

Is there a screenie or a post someone can link me confirming the new skill will be slow?

With that kind of attitude he will be. But I don't blame anyone who chooses not to play with such an anal attention to detail at such long periods of time, or who would even want to. This is a serious misunderstanding of what I'm saying :/. You spend whatever amount of time it takes to figure out how to do a method most efficiently and then you're done paying attention to detail. The vast majority of things are simple and can be figured out within an hour or so. Most people skip this step though lol. I try to educate people to think a bit on small things they can do to improve their speed. There's many obvious things that just tends to get overlooked.

Every method currently available is the "best" until more research is published on how to increase those gains. I see no point in stating the obvious. There's always means of improving, but typically those improvements are weighed against the time needed to figure out the best and the theoretical increases a person would receive from mastering those things. Then the question of sustainability comes into play, and we come back to the same discussion. It might be great if say, someone like yourself can achieve perfection (which is a bit skeptical) for the actions that offer small increases to exp/hr, but the majority probably cannot maintain those rates. Rather than being lazy like some would assume, they might just be incapable for other reasons. There's no point in lauding the absolute best method that less than 5% of players (top or otherwise) can do. So my response to you is I don't think we should be arrogant enough to assume that these ridiculously high APM methods are viable for the general population that even the top players are lumped in. (Consistency and playtime can go a lot farther than nearly automated APM rates on their own.) Oh I can still post. Anyways I think you overestimate the difficulty of what I'm talking about. I'm not referring to maintaining max speed while training prayer without error. That's crazy and intense. But you can still easily do barb fishing and once every 30 or so seconds start a series of dropping where you drop 3-5 fish in a row, click fishing spot and get a new fish, then repeat for each column. It's not much clicking and fairly relaxed and you still get better xp/hr than the more commonly used method which is to fill your inventory and then drop your whole inventory at once instead of spreading it over a few more seconds. The first method costs you no xp and the second costs you xp. The first isn't anymore difficult, it's just smarter. It's only a few seconds less afk when you need to drop and then you still get that long piece of afk anyways. And you get the flexibility to pick when to not pay attention again instead of being limited to filling up your inventory first. You still have your afkable whether or not you do the smarter drop method lol. And if you want to Runecraft and watch movies, that's perfectly possible. I managed it, Foot managed it, Alkan managed it. You might go a tad bit slower but that's alright. My main point has been that it's better to spend some time when you're just getting started with a new skilling method figuring it out and learning how to do it fast and conveniently before you rush into multitasking. I am actually not an advocate of high APM skilling. I just don't think skills should require clicking only once every 30-180 seconds though. 5-20 is more ideal imo. It won't give you carpal tunnel and it's still quite relaxing.

Because I don't worship efficiency. :P I'm not interested in necessarily saving time doing Agility, which is why I did Brimhaven in the past and didn't do the pit at barb. It's also why I moved 200m Xp of my 1b Agility goal over to 07. Slower/harder is much more impressive than faster/easier and in the end the work put in matters much more than the final Xp. That's why 200m Cooking is less impressive than 200m Slayer. In the end it doesn't matter if I save time or not because using slower methods just makes my achievement worth more. This is why I distinguish macro-efficiency from micro-efficiency. With micro-efficiency, it's all about going as fast as possible in whatever method you use, regardless of if it is the most efficienct on a macro level. I don't go as fast as possible at a course or arena to necessarily save time. I do it because it requires, to one degree or another, some level of skill and it helps me practice and I find it rather fun. Even if I were interested in focusing purely on saving time to meet my goals, if my only goal is 1b Agility and nothing else (which it was until I decided to max overall in 07) it'd actually still be efficient to get it now instead of later. If I want to finish my goal within a certain real life timeframe, it's best to make as much progress towards that as possible, at whatever course is available. Stopping all training whatsoever for a year or two to wait for some mediocre Xp rate increase won't actually make me finish any sooner in real life time. I could be making progress along the way and still be able to take advantage of that increase after the update. Stopping would be silly.

This isn't a question for you and as such isn't for PM. Also I think it's worth posting in the thread for others to see anyway. Nobody bother being critical of anyone here, only being nice to asses is allowed. Please leave all stupid bragging alone so no one can see there are people who reject Jebrim's points of view. In fact since all efficient methods are known (not likely to change) and no one is likely to challenge Jebrim, there's no point in posting here at all. Gf. EDIT: To be clear, you can present a massively skewed perspective of life and how smart you are and be untouchable since any criticism will be removed. It's not like the moderators coddle me anyways. :) (5 warning points) I would challenge the idea that all efficient methods are known. Perhaps on a macro-level, do this method or that method to 99, but surely not at a micro-level, use this technique or that technique to maximise your xp rate there. There's also a difference between common knowledge and knowledge only held by a few individuals. I also think early levels people typically get the most efficient method wrong as well. Some things off the top of my head that aren't really common knowledge and/or are new insights: Chaeldar is faster than Duradel after 85 Slayer. Using the cannon properly to take advantage of double hits. Abberant spectres are not worth skipping. Northwest corner at bloodvelds in high pop world is best as you can lure only two squares over to be standing right next to the other one as it spawns, thereby saving time. Going as fast as possible while Runecrafting, lots of little tricks there. Going as fast as possible while doing Agility and knowing what level to switch to Dorgesh-Kaan at. Hunter prior to level 80. Who ever gets that exactly right in the most efficiency? Hunting chins techniques. Elvis99 can get better Xp rates than most top overall imo. Apparently almost nobody, top fishing and wcing ranks included, actually does those two skills properly in a way that doesn't lose potential fish/logs. They're not dropping between fish/logs but instead they're dropping full inventories at a time. That's xp waste right there. I question how much better blackjacking is over pyramid plunder at certain levels due to various downtimes that occur when blackjacking. I also know of a convenient way to 3-tick fish without using the tree like Woox does. It was a method created by a friend and only shared with a couple people. I don't use it or advertise it because I consider 3-tick fishing bug abuse. I think we shouldn't be arrogant enough to think that we know how to get the best xp rates in everything and that there's not potential increases that could possibly be made.

That was his final reason yes, but he had been complaining about updates for awhile before that.

Rc xp that was already gained through effigies though lol. Don't pretend you don't hate ZMI or Agility training and can barely stand doing it. You've said before that if Agility isn't 200k Xp/hr and afk you were going to buy spins for it because you couldn't handle doing it yourself as it is now. How is anyone supposed to respect your final 5b+ Xp when you think like that?

Um, I think you got that backwards. I enjoy the process, the others enjoy the outcome. To me how you do it is much more important than the final Xp number you have. To others it's just the final Xp you have that matters, it doesn't matter if you did it a more challenging way or not.

Bad comparison because Suomi did slow stuff first and was perfectly ready and capable to do conventional runecrafting until effigies and runespan came into the picture. Top Overall players today would refuse to ever train rc prior to those updates. A much better comparison is Phoenix Odin vs Dragonseance.

What do you mean if it is worth waiting? Of course it is worth waiting, providing that one's goal is 200m in all and one has other skills than agility left. If I recall right, even Jagex mentioned somehting about an update to agility, so I wouldn't be that skeptical :P. 200m-in-all wise it is worth waiting for an update to agility, because it will mostl ikely make agi easier, and therefore one will achieve 200m agi faster. Easier isn't always better nor does easier necessarily mean it'll be faster. It could be slower but more afk and therefore easier. Anyways, the entire point in any goal is for the achievement. Taking easier routes just devalues your achievements. I respect Suomi far more for doing many skills while they were difficult than I respect players who are just trying to take the easy road out for everything and not actually pushing themselves. The donations Suomi took are minor compared to the hard work he put into his skilling. He'll always be better than any future people who max all skills except perhaps Drumgun. I also give huge respect to the players than completed 200m Runecrafting prior to runespan. Those players do not regret doing it while it was still tough. Doing it while it's still challenging will be much more fulfilling to yourself and you can actually feel some real pride in doing something few could do. ehem zarfot?>.> Zarfot's strategy was never to play with the intent of waiting for updates to make skills easier. In fact he quit because Jagex kept making things easier. He spent roughly an equal amount of time in each skill. He didn't ignore slow skills until last like this generation does with the idea of slow skills becoming faster to save more time than faster skills becoming faster. Furthermore, he wasn't an afk prod like this generation that seems to worship him. He put effort into skilling. He never camped at ivy even when he had real life stuff to do.

What do you mean if it is worth waiting? Of course it is worth waiting, providing that one's goal is 200m in all and one has other skills than agility left. If I recall right, even Jagex mentioned somehting about an update to agility, so I wouldn't be that skeptical :P. 200m-in-all wise it is worth waiting for an update to agility, because it will mostl ikely make agi easier, and therefore one will achieve 200m agi faster. Easier isn't always better nor does easier necessarily mean it'll be faster. It could be slower but more afk and therefore easier. Anyways, the entire point in any goal is for the achievement. Taking easier routes just devalues your achievements. I respect Suomi far more for doing many skills while they were difficult than I respect players who are just trying to take the easy road out for everything and not actually pushing themselves. The donations Suomi took are minor compared to the hard work he put into his skilling. He'll always be better than any future people who max all skills except perhaps Drumgun. I also give huge respect to the players than completed 200m Runecrafting prior to runespan. Those players do not regret doing it while it was still tough. Doing it while it's still challenging will be much more fulfilling to yourself and you can actually feel some real pride in doing something few could do.

Video showing the accuracy of the program: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H08crO11xVY Download link: http://www.mediafire... Calculator.zip People have been hyping up a new afk Agility method for over a year now. It still hasn't come and I'm quite skeptical that it's even on its way. If you have to wait another year, was it really worth waiting 2 years? And what if it turns out not to be as afk or as fast as you expected?

Yeah. But you're wrong, another person in clan was hit for the same offence. Takes time for the names to come off HS. No. Only permanent bans are removed from the hiscores, not temporary ones.

This argument some make that I would go around bragging about something that was relatively easy to me annoys me. I've been a top player for 5 years and am quite used to being at the top. Only newcomers to being a top player may actually feel immense pride for being a top player. Veterans are already used to it and frankly come to expect it. That's not to say I don't have any pride, but it isn't really directed into anything I've done recently. Most of the pride that I have is in my nolifing records that I've set and my unique Xp/hr capabilities at some Agility places. Those things were tough. Maxing first is not tough and therefore not worthy of much pride. I don't actually have that much pride for my total Agility Xp even, yet I do recognize how exceptional it is when compared to other people's stats. Only a few players have multiple slow non-afk'd 200m's and it's really quite sad to see. Most top players can't seem to stand what I find relatively easy. That makes me sad to see the quality of these other players, not prideful in me being much better than them. Anyways more on topic, my recent posts were not a complaint about people not nolifing, they were a complaint about top players quitting RuneScape altogether instead of just continuing to make slow but steady progress. You say "some" but I'm talking about "all". All my competition quit, not just some. And for your final statement, I didn't realize 99 Fishing was equivalent to all 99's. Who is Zezima???

There is an update to Agility coming sometime soon, but not Agilityspan. Mod Dean specifically referenced Runespan and how it was not going to be similar. The thing is, they actually had a good new Agility update but smashed it themselves. It is still decent, but only in very specific circumstances. I think Jebby knows what I am talking about... Not sure what you mean by very specific circumstances lol. It's still the best Agility Xp in the game and it isn't dependent on luck to get that good speed. Nobody wants to put in the effort to learn the place though. Concerning the large Agility gains today, it was indeed through spins. At 6k Xp per spin average, people were able to spend about $200 to make over 4m Agility Xp in about an hour. It's quite sad tbh. Three did that and one other spent double what they did. Rwting at it's finest. >.> I mean as in you gotta be like the only one playing the game and know how to play it correctly and stuff.. To be honest I would like to learn it, it's just I have only 4m exp left till 99 and I would get 99 by the time I have learnt it =X It's so unused that having a world to yourself is a fairly common occurrence. 1-2 other people wouldn't absolutely destroy your Xp rates to the point of being worse than barb. As for learning it by 99, you'd certainly learn some sure, but even with the proper education I doubt it can all be learnt by 99 lol. Without that education, there's little chance of figuring it out on your own. People generally just grind endlessly with figuring out an obvious technique or two. It's impossible to figure out all the stuff that I do without having a deep understanding of the tick differences between different routes and obstacles. Otherwise you're just running blind and guessing. You'd have to take my tick map calculator program and do a really in-depth analysis of various routes and obstacles and jot down this information somewhere and look for particular patterns and rules to memorize. The main purpose of the program is to represent all the relevant ticks into an accurate (this part is key) and easily calculable map without having to actually try figuring out the ticks for everything yourself through testing. To attempt to do that yourself will almost definitely cause you to be erroneous in the tick times for various things. There are quite a few obscure technicalities that make it extremely difficult to get the times accurate, particularly at this place. It took a lot of testing and tweaking and thought to make my calculator accurate and in the process it gave me a deeper understanding of the place. So I highly recommend doing all tests using the calculator and not trying to actually time ticks yourself.

There is an update to Agility coming sometime soon, but not Agilityspan. Mod Dean specifically referenced Runespan and how it was not going to be similar. The thing is, they actually had a good new Agility update but smashed it themselves. It is still decent, but only in very specific circumstances. I think Jebby knows what I am talking about... Not sure what you mean by very specific circumstances lol. It's still the best Agility Xp in the game and it isn't dependent on luck to get that good speed. Nobody wants to put in the effort to learn the place though. Concerning the large Agility gains today, it was indeed through spins. At 6k Xp per spin average, people were able to spend about $200 to make over 4m Agility Xp in about an hour. It's quite sad tbh. Three did that and one other spent double what they did. Rwting at it's finest. >.>

You're still missing the point. Except for a few individuals, nobody is skilling for the goal of rank 1 (or 2). The vast vast majority of skillers are doing it just to continue to make progress on their account. Take the rank goal aside and there's still reason to skill, otherwise there wouldn't be any skillers whatsoever. It's just weird and disappointing that these specific skillers quit gaining even any Xp, nevermind rank 2.

Are you talking to me? I'd make consistent gains. Not being rank 1 does not automatically remove any reason whatsoever to skill, otherwise nobody would skill in RuneScape. Just continue your goal at a slower pace and aim for whatever rank you can get, that's all. All these people stopped completely which wasn't really necessary.