Huta

Agility or farming, RC aint bad.

Well, you might be dispirited to find out what others have said about Sara in History and Lore (check my summary at the first page). Saradomin did make pact with Zammy to overthrow Zaro and planned to double-cross him afterward, but Zammy soon found out about his plan and decided to double-cross first. How is that for the God of Goodness to eat up his deal? Again, Saradomin claimed to have created the world of Runescape, but, as we all know, Guthix and other elder gods had created the world long before Sara even existed. How is that for the God of Goodness to claim credit that he did not deserve? I double-cross my allies in Risk all the time. I know, I'm a [bleep]ing black sheep. At least the people that like Sara don't say "becaaaause he's blak and dark & evel" as their reason. ;)

I really need to upload some screenshots I got woodcutting at Barb Assault. "OMG i own ur woodcutting, i have 93 wc, nub" I mean, sure, Jagex gets money from these [developmentally delayed]ed idiots, but they shouldn't be welcome. Like 95% of RS is skiller based, how dare Jagex appeal to people like that? Ban woodcutting imo. They shouldn't let people like that in.

You are kidding...right?

lol... you do know that dharok helm is better than dragon full helm because of mithril dragons right? point= invalid. cacmypants= bandos boots and bandos pool have nothing to do with each other. at all. not even relevant. not even close. not even in the same ballpark. or country. I don't know wtf you're on about, but this comment invalidates your opinions completely. They have everything to do with each other. You were [bleep]ing about bandos boot's price, when the entire reason they are worth something (along with the sara and zammy bracers) is because people wear them when doing the GWD to protect themselves from that god's minions. I have a pair myself, even though I hate the look, for slayering in the Bandos encampment. He was mentioning that he doesn't wear the boots because he uses the Bandos pool instead, but a lot of people including myself prefer to just use the boots because it doesn't wear off in one hour and doesn't force you to travel halfway around the map. Nobody is so deluded to think that Bandos boots are better than dragon, they wear them for one reason and one alone; for use in the GWD. If it were not for the GWD, I could easily see the price on those boots dropping to the 400k range. Not to mention your comment that bandos armor is just not useful is about as far fetched as it comes. Bandos plate is the perfect combination between defense and strength bonus for training in most cases, and honestly, when training, the +6 strength you are losing by wearing dh will affect you much more than the 30ish defense. On a max strength player, that's an xp increase on average of around 2-3k more xp per hour at the cost of nothing you will miss. Honestly, the impression I'm getting from your thread is of somebody who is jealous that he can't afford the latest status armor and so is dissing everybody else that can.

I was talking about dominating anywhere, facing fully armored players, not edgeville pvp with rune and zerkers. Don't ask me to explain it because I can't, but I've seen it happen enough to know the mindless balanced builds blow at pvp. You have to focus on one or two stats, and the best two combos are usually defense and strength, or attack and strength.

Lol...you do know the entire reason bandos boots have value is because of the GWD, right? Drama queen. Look up zammy or sara bracers sometime, they're inferior to barrows gloves and barely noticable when worn, but they still have value for the same reason. There's a reason the sara and zammy bracers are at 270k and 370k ea when guthix sell for 11.5..

Never said it was for everybody. It's a toy for people that can afford it. If it breaks your bank, don't buy it, it's definitely not an essential, but if you can good for you.

Preparation that is totally optional. Remember, money is no object. The extra +10 def or whatever it is is completely useless when training. Look at it this way; Marginal strength bonus (why not?) Asthetics (Bandos plate with DH legs...no thanks) No hassle No reason not to use it.

10 seconds of your time every 10 minutes isn't bad either, but that doesn't make me love Niles or the Sandwich lady.

True. But a balanced played is at a disadvantage against say, someone with 90 90 70 stats, or some mix in that area. Balanced players are pretty weak all in all, just pures are weaker and simply own because people are too stupid or too cheap to wear what's required to beat them. Well... actually, I used the combat calculator on this site, and a 90, 90, 70 pure is equivilant to a 85, 85, 85 balanced, doesn't seem like much of a disadvantage to me... (I'm excludeing prayer on both sides and they are both combat level 97) Yeah, the 85-85-85 will win by far. As you scale up even higher, that 99-99-45 pure that seems like such a great idea will meet a nasty death at the hands of an 87-87-87 player in torag's dd++. Been there, done that. DD++ won't hit that much on 87 defence + torags, but 45 defence and rune = 2-3 specced. I didn't show a rune pure, I showed a barrows pure. By the time you hit 70 defence, your hardly a pure, and you've lost all that 'cheap armor' advantage. Now it's just 99-99-70 vs. 99-90-85 - the extra 10 strength levels won't make up for the 15 defence levels (assuming the 2nd player only has 95 HP), as defence is more important then strength at that level unless your using veracs. A high level whip tank vs. whip tank fight goes something like 0-0-0-0-0-0-23-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-70-0-0-0-0-0-29-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-41 making attack and defence MUCH more important then strength, as you are hitting\being hit much less then 50% of the time. And that 85 defence will still help against dd++ specs that will do nasty things to 70 defence with 99 attack. You can't crunch numbers like that on pvp. I was a barrows pure for ages, and it did destroy balanced builds. My kills to deaths, no matter where I went, were around 3-1 easily on people my combat. One of the things you're forgetting are that prayers raise skills by a percentage, which benefits people with one or two high skills over people with balanced stats.

True. But a balanced played is at a disadvantage against say, someone with 90 90 70 stats, or some mix in that area. Balanced players are pretty weak all in all, just pures are weaker and simply own because people are too stupid or too cheap to wear what's required to beat them. Well... actually, I used the combat calculator on this site, and a 90, 90, 70 pure is equivilant to a 85, 85, 85 balanced, doesn't seem like much of a disadvantage to me... (I'm excludeing prayer on both sides and they are both combat level 97) Yeah, the 85-85-85 will win by far. As you scale up even higher, that 99-99-45 pure that seems like such a great idea will meet a nasty death at the hands of an 87-87-87 player in torag's dd++. Been there, done that. DD++ won't hit that much on 87 defence + torags, but 45 defence and rune = 2-3 specced. I didn't show a rune pure, I showed a barrows pure.

It's not the money, it's the hassle. Believe me, I've been using barrows since the day it came out. I've repaired my set of guthans probably 50 times. Sure, it only takes a couple minutes to repair, but after too many repairs it gets just plain annoying, like a bad random event. Hell, before the GWD I would train in rune or dragon at times to save the repairs. Bandos is a solid piece of armor with more than sufficient defense stats, a tiny str bonus, and it's completely no hassle. A full set of bandos looks better than a generic set of barrows and it requires no annoying trips to the POH for repairs. Not everything has to be based off pure logic, you know.

You couldn't be more wrong. There is absolutely NO reason whatsoever behind firemaking, none. Even if the runecrafter stopped at 13m xp, the odds are much more in favor of the firemaker than the RCer. One of the reasons I enjoy slayer is because of its challenge factor. That's one of the reasons I enjoy RC, as well, though I'm nowhere near a cape in that skill. A person might just train to 13m xp because they enjoyed the challenge of the skill. And because the difficulty and the amount of determination it takes to get that cape, I'm willing to give them more benefit of doubt than I would someone wearing an untrimmed fletching. It's not a skill that you can just pick up on a whim and have maxed in 3 weeks. Why do I single out those three skills? Batting average. I'm not going to change my view on a group because it might not apply to 1% of its population.

DEEP down in the EVIL cave of DEMONIC DOOM! That quest made me love bones to peaches long time.

Arguing what does or doesn't deserve to be at what price doesn't accomplish anything. Tassets cost what they do because that's what people value them at, balance between demand and supply. Sure, you may not think they're worth the 8m, but apparently enough other people do. And speaking from personal experience, there's no reason why I shouldn't buy them, the price is nothing to me and I'm getting a solid piece of non-degradable, no maintenance armor with strength bonus and good stats. Why shouldn't I buy them?

Fine. You bash cooking, but if your criterion is how much it's worth your time, why would you respect fishing more than cooking? Why would you respect thieving more than cooking? Why would you respect agility more than cooking? Why would you respect mining more than cooking? What makes those other skills worth it that cooking doesn't have? Depends on the reason you trained it. Like I said, 99% of the people with fletching or cooking capes, and probably 100% of the people with firemaking capes, got it for no other reason than for the sake of having a cape in hopes of getting esteem in other player's eyes. If somebody tells me they trained to 99 runecrafting just for the cape, just so people will go "omg, RC cape", I'll put them in that same category as the random nub with untrimmed fletching in a heartbeat. At least, though, the person with the RC cape has the benefit of the doubt, and the odds are they trained it simply because they enjoyed a challenging skill and to earn money. When you see those harder capes, like slayer, combat, farming...odds are, they were gotten by people that simply enjoyed challenges or even just enjoyed the skill. You don't usually see level 80s buying 2m essence so they can get a skillcape, you know? While there may still be the rare person that truly enjoys firemaking, that's an exceptionally rare case. The easy skills have this nasty tendency to attract low leveled glory hunters, and that's why they lose the respect that the more difficult skillcapes get. I enjoy slayer. If I start playing RS regularly again, I may end up getting a cape in it. I train it because it's the only way I enjoy combat training, and honestly, it's the only thing that still mildly interests me in RS. I couldn't care less about e-rep, my personal life definitely isn't anywhere near sad enough for me to stoop to carving willows so strangers might think I'm cool. That's more than most fletchers can say.

Champion's challenge isn't that hard, I spent two days farming them and got both the hobgoblin and the ghoul scrolls.

Friend of mine, around 4 years ago now, got permabanned for using mousekeys when powermining. Not sure if things have changed since then, but I know that one for sure.

Thats the whole point, I'm GLAD I havent wasted so much time just to have a 99. If i'd laugh with you but I have one myself, that'd be lame, moreso than not having 99 fletching. It's a waste of time to get 99 in a skill...so you'd laugh just as hard if not harder at people who get 99 runecrafting, or slayer, or farming, or agility, or fishing, or mining, or construction? Those are even bigger wastes of time, since they take longer to get, right? So in a way, fletching is much less n00by than those skills? At least you aren't wasting money in a desperate attempt for some e-fame when you earn a farming or RC cape. I have 96 fletching. Around a year and a half ago, I decided it was time to finish my age old 99 magic goal, so I bought a crapton of mages, yews, bs, and unstrungs. Most I traded for the finished products, but just fletching the few I couldn't get rid of raised my fletching from 80 something to almost cape. Been a year and a half since I touched my fletching. Guess what? I couldn't care less about that cape, because I'm not desperate for skillcapes. I trained magic because I could use it, and because I enjoyed it. (IIRC, I'm up to 14m+ magic xp atm, just from use.) I only trained fletching out of necessity. When you see these level 80s with 1400 total level and like 30 farming and 56 ranged buying yews by the bucketload to fletch, you can't help but think how pathetic it must be if they're that desperate to waste their time (and their pixels) to get a completely useless cape. And don't give that [cabbage] about how "some people like fletching", because you know as well as I do that the vast majority of the noobs running around in untrimmed fletching capes with their gold infinity and mith gloves trained that skill for one reason and one alone - because they wanted some precious self fulfillment, an "achievement", and maybe have those people they run into ingame to look up to them as an added bonus. But, as we all know, nobody gives a [cabbage] about a fletching cape, or a firemaking or a cooking one, and as a result there are like 3 of these threads at any given moment on any given fansite where somebody is crying that their cape isn't getting them the praise they wanted.

Different stats do different things. If you have low attack, you'll still do fine against someone with low defence. But if you tried to use that low attack on someone in high defence with GOOD armor, you would fail miserably. Tell me, how does that relate to what I said? I said: - In no armour fights, strength comes out on top, no comparison - In full (rune) armour fights, strength STILL comes out on top, even against someone with a high attack. Maybe you didn't understand my example. I fought Y Guy, both using full rune and an inventory of tuna. I ran his food supply out and killed him with around 7-8 food still left. I KNOW this is only just one example but its not as if I only just beat him, there was a very clear margin. In f2p, with the horribly low accuracy on rune weapons, attack is weaker than def. If he had low attack and str, with high defense, you would probably have lost. True. But a balanced played is at a disadvantage against say, someone with 90 90 70 stats, or some mix in that area. Balanced players are pretty weak all in all, just pures are weaker and simply own because people are too stupid or too cheap to wear what's required to beat them.

So the mage gets the tank ability of a ranger. Woop de do, we have a clone with 30% less damage, horrible accuracy and no ko. The miasmic spells are a soft of offensive armor, which is something if expanded on and controlled could fix mages. A mage shouldn't be a tank, it should be a debuffer. Not to mention, if the new ancient spells were made more available, a mage would actually have a use in monster hunting, instead of just range and melee.

Yes, they are built to, but no to the degree they do. I was just proving a point. Honestly, I would say if they increased the accuracy of ancient magic a bit, and made the new spells readily available instead of tieing the new spells to a perma-degrading 10m staff that lasts one hour (while putting some controls on it to prevent hybriding with the new spells), ancient magic might be able to stand on its own. It would still need a ko, but that would be a lot better off than it is now. Instead of copying the other classes and simply increasing damage, mages would be effective at reducing the other person's damage output. As it stands now, though, that spell is almost never seen ingame. You might see one mage using it in high stakes pvp world clan battles, or once a year in BH by a hybrid which then switches to melee or range, but with pvp the way it is now, and the loss of staking, pvp doesn't give good enough of rewards to be worth risking a staff like that, nice as its effects are. And right now, magic needs something. If instead of that, they release a new spellbook, I'd go 10 second max binds, with single target spells that can hit up to 40, and a simple dds-style ko on the staff. Accuracy would have to be high enough to hit rangers enough to give them a run for their money, while melee would still have a chance (though still disadvantaged) if the mage misses one bind, messes up his timing, or during the 4 second immunity after the bind wears off. The mage has high enough damage to be competitive, plus the ko option they need. Either of these would work. Honestly, I believe a new spellbook (or an expansion on modern elemental magic) would be the better choice, but I'd be happy with slightly better accuracy and ready availability on the Miasmic spells.

The only thing magic has over the other classes is ice/entangle and tb. That's all. A couple utility spells that do nothing to balance the class out. Sure, if you're pking with your friends you'll want a mage with you. But when it comes to being its own class, it's ineffective. Sure, hybrids dominate. But the deal is a warrior, fighting just as a warrior, can still be effective. A ranger, fighting just as a ranger, can still be effective. A mage, fighting just as a mage, is a free kill. A mage may not be supposed to have the edge on a ranger, but they should at least stand a chance, the same way a ranger has a solid chance of beating melee if geared properly. If any mage thinks they're up to it, I'll deathmatch you in the duel arena, melee on magic. Let's see if you can succeed where 15 other 99 mages have failed. Which makes it good as a sidearm or to have a mage friend if you're pking in a group. That doesn't change anything. My last duel with a mage, we fought for a freakin' 15 minutes non stop, the mage splashing around 70% of the time and the other half hitting for an average of around 16 damage. (Without prayer). Who won? I did. All it took was a lucky pair of 40+ hits. And bottom line, wearing people out DOESN'T get kills. Ko's do. Until magic gets its own KO, it's going to be subpar as its own class and is going to continue in its oldschool RSC role. Once again, utility. Utility doesn't mean balance. It's a nice thing to have, essential to a group, but it just still isn't balanced. Your tank ranger stats are ok, but not enough to talk about. A solid tank ranger with max stats does surprising well against melee. Melee holds the edge, like it should, but they're definitely not a pushover. That part of the triangle is balanced. Magic vs range, tho, is absolutely no contest. And please, don't try the "I know more about pvp than you do kthxbai" line, because you really don't want to get shot down that bad. "Now that is just plain wrong" was referring to my previous comment about tank rangers, not you. Sorry, but that's right. The range/melee hybrid has more damage, no weaknesses, and will absolutely school a melee or range and magic hybrid. While that range/melee hybrid is froze down, the other hybrid (sitting in probably 150 or less range def) is getting turned into a pincushion. The mage hybrid can always try to close in for melee, but once again, he's in inferior armor. No matter what he fights with, he's at a major disadvantage. Ice is nice, but KOs and damage win fights. A good dbow, ags, or dds spec or even a lucky hit with a dstone bolt could end the fight as fast as it started, and the chances of one of those going off are much higher when you're fighting someone wearing a skimpy armor with ahrim parts in it. Magic is nothing more than a class that works well in a group but is inferior everywhere else. What magic needs is a new spellbook. Single target, high damage, high accuracy, completely with a special attack on the staff. Something that brings mages back into play on the 1v1 scale. It leaves Ancient magic where it is now, a group and utility spellbook, while giving mages an effective spellbook that increases their chances against both melee and range when pking by themselves.

blah blah blah, mage hits hard cuz it killed me I say mage melee and range are indeed even That right there is so ridiculous it's almost not worth addressing. Magic and Ranged are nowhere near even. Just plain counting the dps possible - 30 max at slow speed for magic, vs. ko abilities and massive damage with special effects with crossbows. Heck, the other day I hit a 28 with unenchanted rune bolts with my measly 79 ranged - that's almost max what I can hit with my mage cape. I can easily out eat a mage. No sweat, even without prayer. While it's true damage isn't everything, when you add in all the other negative factors magic is on the very bottom. It's inaccurate, low damage, with no ko, weak armor, and for an extra little kick in the nuts it has an extremely high cost of use. You may have never fought a decent tank ranger, but I have. They can get whiplike accuracy while stacking around +300 slash def, high damage, with effective ko options and a nice set of special effects. A tank ranger has a slight disadvantage against melee, but they're fully capable at killing a meleer. A mage doesn't have a [bleep]ing chance against a ranger, it's almost ludicrous to watch how fast they go down. And as I've proved time and time again, a tank ranger almost always has a better chance of killing a fully armored meleer than a mage has of killing an effective meleer. Now that is just plain wrong. lord_troyus, a meleer in hides is not a hybrid. Hybrid doesn't refer to armor, it refers to using multiple forms of attack. A warrior in black hides is still a warrior. And honestly, even in the hybrids game, other than the utility in teleblock or ice, a hybrid that uses magic alongside another class is weaker than say, a range/melee hybrid. Magic just doesn't pull its own weight, it's the weak link in the triangle.