deep_pain

http://kubr.net/popgraph Link was originally posted by mam. the site has individual servers so you can look at members servers, but not a global for members only servers, maybe if someone asked the owner or pointed them this way they might be able to provide the info.

Dead and dying are very different things, yes it has been shrinking ever since RSC, I was mainly a f2p PK'er but also PK'ed on a different char on members. Of course through boredom you would, especially on f2p have to goto the lower levels occasionally to get a fight. But as a solo PK'er on F2p I spent about 50% of my time above level 20 wild, and no I didn't need a clan to do this. 6 (4 on rs2) years of experience helped, but I wish the average player had known that above level 20 wild was a place in the wild completely different to that of people hanging around in level 1-20. The sad thing is most people see the people hanging around low level wild and think that's it, they're too scared to go further. If they would have walked deeper they would have met a dying breed of PK'ers. Even with deep wild being the home of clans, a profit could be made, a fair fight could be found, Of course occasionally a clan would appear, but 7/10 times they are not good enough to get a kill even many v 1, if you have the knowledge to escape (never run & log). If anything in some ways deep wild is safer than low lvl wild. Only at the most quiet times of night would I have to go to low level wild. Yes I'd get more kills in low level wild. But it was never the same experience as deeper. We were dying but not dead, a few of us still remained. I don't expect Jagex to cater for the few of us that survived, but the 10/dec was the nail in the coffin. Before that we still existed. Either way, what you or I may think of as solo pking is gone, love or hate the low level wild PK'ers they were the new form of solo PKing and at least there you had a chance of a kill, in fact on f2p at castle I would average 4-5 in about 2 hours if I had to go there. Not great I know but better than the option now. It would make me laugh as I ventured north sometimes someone I was talking to might follow me, asking where I was going, then when I reached lvl 20 they would stop and say ohhh I don't go above 20.. or "do you have a team?" Occasionally a lvl 120+ would see me walking where I could be attacked, often they'd break off as soon as you went 2 or 3 levels above the castle. Some may call them teletubbies, PJ'ers, taggers, runners, noobs w/e, but whatever your feelings about PK'ers in low levels, they fought mostly 1on1 and didnt need a clan to kill one person and everytime they stepped into the wild put their items of value on the line. A lot of low level wild PK'ers actually had a lot of honour and respect. Now you need a clan to survive.

I can't really answer this question. Most of my friends list is PK'ers, usually at any on time there are at least 15-30 people on my list who I met in the wild. usually at this time around 15.. right now I have 1 person online. But most of my list as I say were PKers, as PK'ers were most effected (so far obviously everyone will be soon). it will not be representative.

Yah I agree, high change doesn't look to have change by much more than a few thousand.

Great post, I'm still hanging on the thread that some changes may be made, A lot of J-mods were around outside BH on release, they were supposedly taking notes about what people were unhappy about, there is a post on the Runescape forums with 40k replies and numerous posts with between them what must be 100k replies, yet not a single word has come from them about their customers concerns. Am I wrong in thinking that the forums are still members only? that those 10's of thousands of complaints are all from paying subscribers? It seems wrong, if they were any other form of company it wouldn't be acceptable to not even acknowledge those complaints. All I have seen from Jagex is silence. I might be wrong I have certainly been wrong in the past, I was the first to tell merchants to stop crying when the G.E came out, because I personally made a lot of profit out of G.E. and could see very profitable ways of merchanting. I thought they lacked the vision to make money from the exchange if they couldn't see the people desperate for money selling much cheaper than the exchange, standing right outside the exchange, I thought they must have vision problems, but with a 3k either way limit on all trades outside of the exchange in future, I couldn't have been more wrong. I was also the first to dismiss posts saying that PKing would die, before the update was made, I didn't in my wildest dreams think Jagex would end solo PKing outright with their latest update. Again I was wrong. I was also the first to dismiss people complaining about the duel arena changes, thinking well surely any good staker can still make a profit of millions per day PKing. Again I was wrong. Lots of people agreed with me, and I may have made stunning points and have made people believe I was right, but when the updates rolled out, how wrong I was. I apologise to all those people, because now I find myself after 6 years looking for a reason to keep playing. You're post is extremely well written and hard to argue with. I hope maybe that some of the people who do not see the downsides of the latest and future updates will read this post, because it says in clear terms what other people with simular feelings may not be able to put into words so well.

You should not use the 3-Day graph because RuneScape traffic is always more significant during weekends (kids not in school). Here's the 30 day to show you the difference. As you see here, there do exist a dip in player count (~10k), especially during night time. Since bots operate either at night or 24/7, it's a good guess that a majority of the drop came from bots leaving the game rather than actual players. I'd say much more like 20k+ at low which is 1/3rd+ drop in of players at low point.. look at all previous nights not including weekends the minimum player is 60k+ (top line) apart from the day i marked in red which is still above by 15k+ there hasn't been a time that it has dropped below 60k. Last 2 nights have seen a 1/3rd drop. if you look at individual servers the drop is universal, p2p and f2p servers and there were far more bots on f2p servers so I doubt it can all be attributed to bots. But yes it must be a percentage.

41k again tonight. 21K+ below the normal lows on a monday and tuesday night. could it all be bots? I havent been on a f2p to check. But the kubr graphs show 62/3k is the average minimum and as far as I can see it hasn't dropped below 60k in the last 30 days. So that's nearly 30% fewer players at the low point. High point seems almost exatly the same as any other monday/tuesday. If that's just PK'ers it's crazy, because as mentioned b4 PK'ers are a minority. What will it look like when they do the 3k trade and drop limits.

i agree fully with this. (not in the rs example though or bush) One problem with politics these days is that people expect their leaders to do what THEY want, not what the leader wants. The point of a republic is to elect leaders that do what they want, not what the people want at that moment. The populus is easily swayed by attack ads for instance. The hope is that the leader will not be so easily swayed. At least that is how America's founders designed our government to reflect... yes of course because what the people want shouldn't be taken into account at all. Of course being a republic means that leaders should ignore the populace. I mean if you did what the people wanted that would make you a democracy, who wants to be a democracy eh?

Current Poll: Quit now. I'm not waiting to try the new trade system. 6% (385 votes) Quit now. Merchanting or pking is completely changed. 14% (868 votes) Wait it out. I'll decide once things settle down. 33% (2073 votes) I don't plan on quitting. 23% (1482 votes) Why quit? This is great! 24% (1489 votes) Of course this is only representetive of tip.it users not runescape in general. But only 47% think they are definately staying. 53% are quitting or are not sure they will keep playing. This is the current poll, others are based before the update. It is also more representative of peoples views on runescape rather than Jagex as a company. But I fail to see how 47% is a majority.

if using a free virus scanner it might be worth downloading a program specifically for spyware / malware. Most payed virus scanners have a good one built in, the free ones rarely do. Spybot is good, a lot of people use adaware, or sarch for others. I would get spybot, but personally I turn off the protection services, they just slow the computer down, in my view it's better to clean every so often than have something on that permanantly takes up memory and processor bandwith.

Numbers seem pretty normal right now, as mam mentioned it really needs a few days or weeks to see if there is any difference I guess. To be honest right now only PK'ers are affected, and I'm the first to admit due to changes that have been happening ever since RSC, PK'ers have been dwindling and are now a small minority. Probably get a better idea of if there is any real traffic difference when the bigger 3k limit update comes out. Not that I believe this will have any effect on the updates, Jagex were aware people would be unhappy, and aware a certain percentage would quit, but like the move from RSC to RS2, they believe that targetting a new market will make up for any short term losses.

You should feel very proud for such a well written, well thought out, literate and intelligent post, I really feel the depth of your knowledge on the subject is truely immense. Thankyou for such an enlightening and informative post. Please do not hesitate in sharing your kind words with us again. I am in awe.

It is hard to notice on the 7 day graph, but the low last week was definately over 60k something like 63-65k ish ... now 41k today

You'd need to show the 7 day really, saturday and sunday is always a peak over monday. Basically last monday the low was about 65000 maybe a bit more, so far this monday 42000... 23k difference... 1 months and 3 month show the same but u need a big monitor really to see the scale. It is at least 20k down on the average monday.. right now, but... at points it's been at least 40k off of what i'd have expected.

probably hit bottom now

Click the link mam posted, it will be clearer in a few hours when the the numbers for now arn't right on the edge. (nm didnt see that you had) put a piece of str8 paper or ruler to the bottom of far right hand corner, we're at least 15k down to any day except the server crashes and the [bleep]es on updates. It is a very clear change I wish I had your confidence that they would make a single combat area in bounty hunter, it does after all seem the obvious thing to do, that's what most PK'ers are annoyed about. But I don't think it's going to happen. This isn't like the assist update, I have a funny feeling that this is more like the rsc to rs2 update, such a large and major change that they might make a few edits... but do you think they havent realised that this basically ended solo pking? As you say they expected this backlash.. It was obvious just reading the update that if bounty was multi combat it was going to kill PKing, I didn't need to go there to know if I went in and it was multi combat I was going to be attacked by clans and be unable to get a 1v1..you think with 300 staff no one thought about that? Of course I did go in and got teamed str8 away. as did everyone who I knew that went. They knew and we have to suck it up. Because this is the new runescape, the duelling the Pking the exchange the no dropping more than 3k, it's all interlinked, if they make changes to one they will have to make changes to all. As with RS2 a lot of RSC'ers quit, the begining of RS2 Jagex lost a lot of subscribers, they took the hit knowing they would make more money in future. This isn't just about RWT, it's about making a child friendly game where you dont lose your stuff if you die, nothing is dangerous, nobody can be scammed, nobody can be lured, nobody can kill anybody else, nobody can try and make a profit other than with their skills, it's RS3 in all but name, lots will quit, but they knew that already. I wouldn't hold out too much hope for changes. I hope, that the user loss is a lot higher than expected.. it is the only chance of any big changes being made. In my belief.

You mean like that almost anywhere on runescape it's impossible to die now? You die? Just go and get ur stuff back from gravestone, as you're the only one who can pick up your items..

You should definately look at the link Mam posted, apart from update [bleep]es clearly the lowest amount of people online in 3 months. EDIT 45k...

47k.. 1k people gone since i edited my post 2 mins ago.

I dont usually watch numbers this much, but this is usually a busy little period for PK'ers, some late night people on in U.S. evening people in Asia / Australia, and Europe b4 work and school would have started coming on an hour ago. EDIT now 48K it doesnt seem to be stopping... I don't understand how it still isn't stopping. I expected it to be low, but it has to stop dropping at some point surely.

It is slowing down a bit, but usually they'd alredy have been going back up for a little while now as European players come on.

I think that server has been off about 12+ hours now?

:shock:

buy willows like crazy? they are extremely cheap, but prices will go up like crazy soon.

you "can". but if you should well, that's ur moral decsion to make. it is against rs rules. ------- Sorry OP, it's not a matter of trusting you or not, it's just common sense, 1st post, no way of knowing if you are trustable. Enough knowledge to know just having A/V doesnt protect from virii, so don't just click any old link. Didn't mean to infer you have posted a virus, more meant to infer that I would never click a link on here from someone wih 1 post.