Ts_Stormrage

90% of the clan I founded (Tal Shiar ;)) was from a rival clan... We split off from some annoying *bleeps* to form our own niche of coolness...

I would recommend using Pay By Cash using a debit card... There might be hidden bank fees, but the advantage is that it is only per transaction... meaning if you buy a whoel yars worth, its only added once (instead of 12 times if you buy monthly)... That's exactly what I do, I use my debit card I got as soon as I could get a proper bank account, credit cards you do rack up fees but debit cards are great because you can only use what's in there. I have about £4 atm :P Debit cards are ALWAYS a better option then Credit cards... The difference is; debit cards are cards that you spend your money with, and with credit cards you basicly borrow money to spend and pay it back later... As for Australian and Canadian RuneScape, Wallie or other voucher cards, I know for Wallie that it is a long term ambition to be available there too... The U.S. however is a different story as they have laws that a foreign financial institution (like a bank) doing business in the U.S. most re-invest at least half its profits in the U.S. (usually the housing market and mortgages)... But there you have RuneScape cards sold (indirectly) by Jagex itself... Considering there are now RS servers in Brazil (in portugese), India and Singapore, the population in RS is obviously growing and if not that, it is at least diversifying... I hope the payment methods can keep up ;)

Not without getting a fat check from Jagex first... But tbh, WoW has become "mainstream" through lots of celebrity endorsements liek Mr. T, Ozzie, and some others previously mentioned here... We too can make RuneScape mainstream... The total playerbase of RuneScape is at least three times that of WoW (this includes all F2P people), so if anyone is up to make RS also a mainstream thing, its up to us to talk about it at school and parties and work and what not... Word of mouth is a powerful thing, and the internet roots are already there... Kind of makes you wonder why people are shy to talk about it... And if people ask "What is runescape?"... Just refer them to those celeb endorsed WoW commercials "but then more diverse, more popular, costs less, and generally better"... I might consider doing an editorial about RS as mainstream later this year ;)

these forums are the history tbh...

Yes, please do... Not only new topics to write about, but new angles on old topics are welcome too :)

Thats ok, I knew from the get-go that this article would relate to MAYBE half the readers, I still thought that it should be written and published :)... Eww.. I just wrote a lengthy reply and then closed it after previewing.. :wall: Summary: Hidden charges = credit card fees. Here, it's included in the price of subscription. Security issue is not with jagex having your details, it's the transmission. Malicious software can steal your details, and more machines are infected than most people realise. (google botnet statistics, for example) There's no guarantee you'll get your money back. Banks might not their reputation tarnished, but they're equally reluctant to just let go of money. It's actually 2 pounds a year - Credit card = 3.5 per month -> 42 per year. Wallie = 4.5 per month -> 54 per year OR 39.99 per year outright. Absolutely correct (although in my calculations I used Euro's, and just wait, one day the brits will switch)... Buying with a whole year with Wallie instead of 12 seperate months costs you 12 pounds less then credit card (which can only be bought monthly)

The problem is... I spotted this problem occuring early April already, and so far not much of a dent has been made... PVP is still a net money generator...

So the new update has everyone all up in a tissy about how it ruined PK-ing... Lets analyse the effect on the one thing that THIS thread made it big with; inflation... First of all, its nice to see that the world of choice is used :) and while we all know riotting doesnt get us anything, its ncie to gather everyone in one place to discuss and scream about it... So lets get on with the analysis... Automatically becoming skulled and not being able to use protection prayers; I suppose its effect is 2 sided. On one end you could have the people who risk the more expensive items (the kind of stuff you need to have lvl 70+ to wear) seeing that lost, so not many people will use those items anymore. This means prices of items like godswords, bandos gear, d claws and even whips will drop. And on the other hand prices of "welfare" items (black dhide, dds, rune armor) will not crash, but may infact continue to climb... Dying means you lose everything, so there will be less 1-iteming people, meaning that around the banks on bounty and pvp worlds, it will become a helluva lot quieter... Upping the minimum risked coins from 25k to 75k; Knowing that people cannot risk their one valuable item which they use to get EP% with, trickers are obviously looking at new ways to risk 75k and it is still up in the air wether or not they will be more at risk (they risk more coins, but there are a lot les people using 'super'-weapons now, meaning its easier to escape)... What this does for the PVP drops; nothing... Hard working pk-ers who risk all their stuff to kill random other people, they got what they wanted, because for them the risk and reward balance has been equalized... The pile jumpers, the rushers, they got shafted (and rightly so), but the trickers havent been hampered too much... I still feel that the drops given should be a factor of what the person was risking (no more then 150% of what he dropped) instead of randomly determined and only influenced by how long a person has been loitering in a certain spot... But this gives us an opportunity; Honor-PK is back, and that means you can grab a DDS, some Black D'hide armor, a Strength Amulet, a Ring of Life and whatever else you may need to survive (but isnt too expensive) and know that in relative safety (since there are only very few super weapons used) you can go out and hunt down the trickers yourself (or with a group, make sure someone brings teleblock)... Remember the witchhunts of abyss-PKers? Theyre back baby...

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=800483 make a statement man :)

to the fremennik and lunar lands list; add keldagrim entrance

So... sell it the day before somewhere in the news it says that they will 'balance' PVP drops better? ok, you may put that pic in the next reply now ;)

[hide=quote wall] I am not sure you can say that. Manipulators add instability to the market by putting upward pressure on prices, then selling at peak. Prices then crash. I think they do it just for the gp, NOT to buy 100k green hides or something like that. They're still not creating money, so inflation isn't happening. In FACT, if these clans end up hoarding their cashpiles, this actually REMOVES gp from circulation, thus causing deflation. Without a huge input of currency in the system, inflation is rare. Said another way, inflation doesn't really occur without currency injection. That's my point. [/hide] When reading that, and asuming that indeed a lot of GP dissapears into the pockets of merchant clans... How much excess GP is currently flowing into the economy then... People mention dozens of things that are removing GP from the game, but with rates increasing like this, how much more then already 'too much' is flowing in...

Articifial demand -> price rise of certain items... not only that; Richer merchanters who can afford to pay more -> more GP available to pay for 'common' items Its still inflation...

Not only destroy all that work, but considering that all that cash removal (which is obviously neccisary over a prolonged period of time), has been nullified in a matter of weeks... If indeed sailin comes out (bring on the flames), I hope its an even more costly skill then construction ever was... At least to start it, so some of the 26k-trick damage can be undone... I have yet to see how this new minigame (Camping with your Armies) and its blatent attempt at junk removal will impact the inflation we're currently in... So far it has started to buy out some parts and some sources of junk, but far from all, and the hype seems to die down already (different scenario's to incite new hypes?)... None of the junk removal so far has had much impact on overall prices...

Yuriqiu is right on the money... We have never been on the deflation system, but before PVP became such an easy moneymaker, prices have been relativly stable with only small increases that even a lazy RS player could easily catch up to, as long as he had the levels for it... What we see now is that PVP (and especially tricking) makes everything else obsolete... In a game as varied and diverse as RuneScape; singling out one thing that is clearly a 'better way' to go about your business than all the others, pretty much ruins the rest of the game...

Spanish and Portugese worlds would pretty much cater to everyone south of texas... If only UNASUR would cooperate a little bit better on the field of improving internet penetration...

You described exactly what I said here

It used to be, but not anymore... RWT is dead, my f®iend

I've not talked about the supply, I have talked about the lack thereof... But would you please care to comment how you can manufacture 1.6m worth of alchable stuff, the natures needed AND alch it all in under 3 hours? So far you keep avoiding the one thing that proves that tricking is by far the better and more reliable money maker... But you're all up about demand, lets have at it then; When magic logs continue to rise in price because there is a massive lack of supply due to everyone tricking instead of woodcutting; who in their right mind would BUY magic logs when their eventual product alchs at a massive loss for you? Demand goes down too! Not only does supply go down because tricking is a better money maker... Supply goes down simply because trickign is also a more RELIABLE money maker... When magic logs hit 2k, noone is going to buy them... And therefor, noone is going to WC for them because it is unsure if they will ever be sold...

People seem to miss the point I tried to make earlier... Ofcourse you can be very mathmatical and have figured out that, before the PVP rewards update, GWD was the best money-maker out there... Trouble with it was, that since it is both drop-rate and team-mate dependant, you we're not 100% sure about the amount of cash you would get per hour... Fishing Lobsters and cooking them (especially above certain levels) is at the other end of the spectrum; very reliable source of money considering you can fish them at a steady pace, cook them pretty much without burning, and they sell pretty well too... Problem with this is that it was not much money... So at one end you have un-reliable but huge amounts of cash, and at the other you have steady reliable but small amounts of cash... The 26k (or 76k) trick is not in this spectrum... IF I had to compare it to certain other known methods of money making, I would compare it to slaying Hellhounds, but with a 1/10 droprate of a LVL 3 clue scroll... It is BECAUSE of this unbalance that in my previous examples, players from each section of the economy are abandoning their old methods and start "making money from nothing" (I will explain later why this is bad)... This unbalance is like the scale not only tipping over, but one side already hitting the floor... And we have no idea how heavy the weight on it is yet, untill we start counterbalancing it... Now, Why this is bad and untrue for several reasons... 1st, your method of calculating 1.6m alchage in 3 hours; 1k Magic Longbows alch for 1.5m... If you an cut 1k Magic Logs, pick 1k Flax, string it into Bowstrings, and fletch it all together to make 1k Magic Longbows, mine or GOP 1k Pure Essence and craft it into Nature Runes AND alch it all in under 3 hours, I would be extremely impressed... If you do this, then yes, you have created 1.6m out of nothing in 3 hours... If however (as I suspect you do) you decide to buy the Magic Longbow (u), Nature Runes and Strings, and then alch it, you have not created 1.6m from scratch... About 1.4m has then dissapeared to the people who actually did the work... So congratulations, you got 1.6m, but it cost you 1.4m, meaning you made 200k cash out of thin air, the rest already existed in value as those raw materials... Now - PLEASE STOP ACTING LIKE YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERRENCE - (yes you, n64jive) 2nd; why is there a difference between creating a pile of cash from thin air, or creating items from thin air which you then sell for the same amount of cash? For you there is not, but for the economy as a whole there is... I guess the logic of my earlier example is lost on you (as I suspected)... I painted a picture of how people more and more would switch from their original jobs to doing the 26k trick... The reason this is bad is that supply stops... People still wish to play the game, so to use your examples of green dragons; to level prayer and crafting, people need Dragon Bones and Green Dhide... They will also resort to tricking because their normal methods of aquiring money for these items seems no longer sustainable, causing further inflation which continues to spiral out of control... I can name some real life examples of why it is bad for people that when a supply of an item stops while people still have plenty of money to actually pay for it... Any food or medicine scarcity comes to mind... Even if people have the money to buy food or medicine, but there simply is not any supply left, bad things WILL happen... They are not directly able to be translated to RuneScape mechanics but what it comes down to is this simple fact; Inflation spiraling out of control due to there being too much money and not enough supply is not somethign that seeks its own equilibrium... The economy will not correct itself, and as prices ever increase with only 1 viable method of making enough cash to keep up, the root of the problem continues to be fueled... Eventually, a handful of people will start to return to skilling when they can get 10k for a Shark, and 2k for a Yew Log, but only a bare minimum of people will do this... Infact, only just enough people will do this to meet the bare minimum demand... What this creates is an ecomomy where rich and poor couldnt be further apart, and considering the situation, making the jump would require a LOT of patience and levelling, unless they too resort to tricking... Unfortunately this means that new players coming to the game see a world where they will never be able to keep up (remember the days when barrows armor seemed unatainable?)... And once again this means even further inflation as less people play the game with more money flowing into it... And eventually even that problem spirals out of control... I'm all for teachign the new people some patience, it makes getting that wanted item all the more of an achievement to them... But of this continues; they either become part of the problem, quit wanting that item, or quit altogether... We all know where the bulk of new people fit in...

Here's a little play by play why this kind of inflation is bad: - Player 1 decided he wants to buy a DragonFire Shield - Player 1 realises he is a couple of million short - Player 1 is normally a skiller who cuts wood for cash - Player 1 now realises doing the 26k thing is actually better profit then cutting wood is, even with bloated prices - Player 1 is now no longer bringing Yew Logs in the market but instead is tricking - Player 2 also wants a DFS and needs money - Player 2 is normally a Fletcher, buying yew logs and making his own Yew Longbows to alch - Player 2 soon too realises doing the 26k thing is actually better profit then alching - Player 2 no longer demands Yew Logs, prices dont inflate as much with the rest due to lower demand (and voila, more Players 1) - Player 3 is a stern Visage hunter and has done this for a living - Player 3 also has realised that tricking is a much better way to get millions of cash, and also a lot more reliable - Player 3 also stops what he is doing and starts tricking, decreasing the supply of the DFS - Player 4 as part of a merchant clan has decided that the DFS is a popular item - Player 4 as part of a merchant clan has his clan buy out as many DFS as possible to increase the demand even further - Players 1 and 2 have to do more tricking to get the required money - Player 4 as part of a merchant clan sells the DFS at a super inflated price, but due to popularity of the DFS and decreased supply, - Players 1 and 2 cannot see the difference and buy the DFS at this super inflated price, thinking it is the normal current price - Player 5 realises his money is worth ever less and less, he too decides to buy an item on the rise - Player 5 then moves to buy a DFS as well because that has a lot of upward momentum on it You can see that there is no clear blame to place other then the rediculous PVP rewards as well as the Merchant clans adding just that little bit extra... Its an endless cycle of more and more people focussing ever more on a single thing to make money, just to keep up... To some extend this was happening when the GWD came out as that was the only source of any REAL money. But that at least required a bunch of moderate quests and some actual decent levels... People could live with that... Now any noob can come into millions without any real skill or levels... Thats an added thing; since so many people can do something so easy to get money, the sheer amount of gp flowing into the system is enormous...

Macro detection system and goldfarmer ban would actually be a factor that limited the amount of GP coming into the economy... This too is completely offset by the current main factors of inflation; 26k trick combined with ridiculous PVP rewards, and Price Manipulators... How can an economy get stronger if nothing new is being put into it under than millions of gp invested into items ultimately raising their price to a new high? People realise that this "26k'ing" is more profitable than things like Gwd, so they're doing it! That means, a slight decrease of the supply of items from there that is also contributing to their sky-rocketing prices. I've friends in a channel commited to Gwd saying "We won't be doing Gwd until Pvp is fixed", basicly translates to "Lets make the most amount before it's nerfed", which everyone knows is coming. It's a sad sad time. Someone alching Magic longbows all day would bring in over 26.5m, which has been around over 5 years, and that takes 55magic is all. Also, when I get a good pvp drop, only about half of it is from statues..the other half is ussually something like dragonstone bolts or onyx bolts+other items. Yet all of sudden you start worrying about? Please! Please trust us who have been here a while, the game is not going to end from inflation. However, 26king does need to be fixed, I just pray that jagex doesn't legit pvp drops. That is where you are utterly wrong n64jive.. Someone alching those magic Longbows would have mined the Essence, crafted it into the Nature runes, picked or MTK-ed the flax, and stpun it, Cut and sliced the Magic logs, put it all together himself AS WELL AS training all neccisary skills before that... If you add in all that production time, no way you can make 26.5m a day with this... Unless he bought some of the items... AND THAT is what the economy is about... Your cash basicly buys you the time so you do not have to do all the other things... Jagex just made it a whole lot easier for people to make money (using not yet outlawed methods) and this creates an unfair balance in the system... Some, infact a LOT of people skill for their money (crafting, fletching etc), and now they cannot buy the raw materials because their purchase power keeps dropping, far faster then alching can make up... You said this in the form of lvl 60's now being able to make the same cash/hour that high levels can make... I agree n64jive comes up with items that aren't rising in price. Sorry, but an obby shield hardly matters. It has no high value, is not a wanted item, and is not traded by the millions (like raw materials would)... Coal has historically been extremely stable and has jumped 25gp up in the last week... Thats a much much bigger sign then the Obby shield halving in value over half a year... ... But, if you need an absolute true and true indicator of there being WAY WAY WAY too much money in circulation (and there being ever more of it), here it is; The Maple Logs have never hiccuped even slightly away from its firm bottom price of 36 gp since they plummeted from 38 gp on Febuari 7th this year... Not even rising one gp... Since June 3rd, they have risen to 39 (even instantly selling at 40 for a while), and since then NEVER EVEN TOUCHED the bottom limit again... We're talking about an item that gets dumped in the GE by the millions upon millions, only used in cheap firemaking and raw materials for junktrading... Right now it sits stable on 38... If people (on average) are willing to pay 'too much' for such an over-supplied item, then yes, there is WAY too much gp generated in RuneScape...

Assuming jagex deals with it properly. They have been aware of the problem for a while now, and have done nothing to slow it down, which makes me believe that Jagex want's inflation to continue. Uhm, thats stupid... why would they want it... It makes everything a lot harder for the newest of players...

Merchant Clans... 26k Tricking... Ginormous cash rewards on PVP... It is all causing the artificial inflation of which I have a few nice examples here: Armadyl Chestplate: Today: +255.4k - 30 Day: 1,611,498gp [+14.8%] - now 12.5m after a steady 9m for months Abyssal Whip: Today: +24.7k - 30 Day: 470,948gp [+30.8%] - now 2m after months of stability on 1.5m Dragon Claws: Today: +428.4k - 30 Day: 5,077,080gp [+17.8%] Bandos Chestplate: Today: +330.6k - 30 Day: 2,232,391gp [+16.7%] Dragonfire Shield: Today: +433.2k - 30 Day: 2,662,661gp [+16.5%] - almost back at the value it was released at Barrows - Guthan's Set: Today: +97.8k - 30 Day: 490,909gp [+14.4%] Mage's Book: Today: +130.3k - 30 Day: 1,374,338gp [+96.4%] - biggest price jump yet But you'd think that this was due to those drops being removed from PVP... Nope... Shark: Today: -10gp - 30 Day: 375gp [+40.1%] Clean Ranarr: Today: -128gp - 30 Day: 2,109gp [+26.9%] - 90 Day: 3,636gp [+57.6%] Coal: Today: +3gp - 30 Day: 19gp [+10.8%] - after months of steadyness on 175 Magic Logs: Today: +10gp - 30 Day: 81gp [+6.2%] - 90 Day: 116gp [+9.1%] - used to be 1k, now hardly worth alching Yew Logs: Today: -8gp - 30 Day: 40gp [+8.7%] - 90 Day: 55gp [+12.5%] - used to be 300 Dragon Bones: Today: +36gp - 30 Day: 333gp [+14.1%] Big Bones: Today: +7gp - 30 Day: 46gp [+13.2%] Ok, the trend is obvious, and there are absolutely NO signs of this stopping any time soon... Enormous amounts of GP are flowing into the economy, and they are coming largely from PVP (and the tricking there) and are driven up further by the Merchant clans... PVP should be turned back into a money sink rather then stay a method of quick cash for thousands of people, many of which are abusing the system in place... The exact same thing goes for manipulative merchant clans... And so far, not a single official statement by Jagex, just a mere acknowledgement by one J-mod... This cannot continue... So if you agree, help spread the word: This: [url=http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=800483][img=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/glassdiamond/TSA/GESig.gif][/url] Will give this: As for the new and most indicative data: Check my latest post on this thread And here is all the factors causes and effects explained; Feel free to post questions, but quote the play by play if you do And this is a nice graph of the Common Trade Index that pretty much says it all; Thanks to Wiki and swampjedi Here I have analysed what the July 15th update did for the massive inlfation; Feel free to discuss

Isnt there something to say for the current masses of inflation? Inflation is basicly what the Merchant Clans take advantage of, and with the update of dropping millions upon millions at a time on PVP worlds... PVP, in my opinion, should be brought back down to something that costs money to do (on average), rather then earns you money... It, especially since the replacement of boss and minigame drops, has been the biggest catalyst for inflation...