stormveritas

Most of my mistakes were nooby. I sold a ton of stuff back to the general store. When I got started, before I started cruising forums, I didn't realize people would pay 20 gp per log. I sold about 2000 logs to the shop, for the great deal I was getting... 2000 GP. That money would have gone a loooooong way when I was teh uber noob!

Firemaking. Almost completely useless, although that's another thread. Experience towards FM just has the feel of being a total waste.

I like to make cannonballs... but there really is just about no market for it right now. I need to get my character stronger so I can do Shilo Village and craft nats, but I'll use them myself and try to pimp out rings of dueling. Emeralds for 1000, gold for 500, already made my own cosmics... Those will get me 4k each in my sleep, and at least 2k will be profit. ::drools::

I had an epiphany last night thinking about this thread, and wanted to share it. The appeal of smithing reflects not just the appeal of one skill, but rather the APPEAL OF THE WHOLE GAME! A few people said it perfectly; it was fun, or relaxing, or they enjoyed it. That's it. That's all that matters, I suppose. Whether you are leveling smithing, combat, whatever, you are trying to get to certain milestones, or chasing down goals that you set for yourself. When you reach that, you want a new skill. It doesn't matter if you are a low level, a mid level, or a high level. It doesn't matter if you're a killer or a skiller. The fun in this game lies in the milestones. It rests in the "Rate This" category, where people spew forth about the things that they have accomplished. Think about the feeling you get when you reach goals. I'll state some of my goals or achievements, and I'm a pretty crappy character, so bear with the mediocrity of these achievements: [*:3qd2pdek]Reaching level 44 runecrafting, so I can craft nats[*:3qd2pdek]Reaching level 59/60 mining as an F2Per, opening up the mining guild to me.[*:3qd2pdek]Reaching 60 woodcutting, and the ability to hack away at yews.[*:3qd2pdek]Reaching 900 total levels (I know, it stinks) and seeing the progress I've made.[*:3qd2pdek]Wielding a full rune set.[*:3qd2pdek]Defeating the Demon tree and getting into the Lost City of Zanaris... These are the best memories of the game. These are the things I've worked for. My goals may differ from some other people here, as others are at different stages of the game, but it is that feeling of accomplishment that we seek. That actualization of meeting the hard-fought goal you set for yourself, and by doing so opening up other opportunities. So simple, but so indisputably true. I don't know how I overlooked it, to be honest, but it's clear to me now. Finances are a goal of some in the game, but a low priority to others... they are a means to reach most goals more quickly, but if they do not aid your goal, then they are useless. The game is about satisfaction. Those goals are the payoff. [/long-winded, stupid diatribe]

OK, we're getting somewhere now, just as I have to leave... These two comments are the breadth of the whole shebang. Now, "equal" xp vs. cash is where it comes into argument. What amount of cash is worth 1000 XP? As we said, you can get 1000 XP and MAKE money by smelting, but how much is it worth to someone to get that added boost to XP and pay up for it? If you can separate that the isolated process of Smithing does indeed lose money, then you see where I'm coming from, even though you look at mining, smithing, and alching as an all-inclusive process (which would net a modest gold profit and good experience, as opposed to maximum gold).

Probably an hour a day. It would be more if I could access from work, but then my job would suffer.

Your logic only stands if you ignore the fact that mining and smithing are mutually exclusive, and the fact that there is indeed a worth to goods in your inventory other than gold. The iron and coal ore that you mine increases your net worth as you bank it, since it immediately becomes an item with some resale value. When you stop mining, it's net value then adds your inventory's total value, and the amount of money (not just gold, but total tangible assets) that you have. Smelting generally increases this net worth. When you turn around and smith, however, you are spending some of your newly acquired assets. Your net worth DECREASES THROUGH SMITHING, (unless you're doing CBalls, which are boring and horrible), as the gold yielded via high-alching is far less than you could have earned had you sold the ores or bars. The difference between your net value before and after smithing translates into the DIRECT COST TO YOU that you are paying in exchange for smithing experience. So in other words, NO, this type of smithing is by no means "pure profit". This economics lesson has been brought to you by Stormveritas

That method does work, but smithing to get maximum experience (that means armor / arrowtips / nails / NOT CANNONBALLS) will never get a good return on the dollar. Smelting is a business that will earn money, you are correct. At the same time, it is a very slow, very work-intensive process, as opposed to other methods of "earning" (such as woodcutting or mining) that earn money FAST. Your explanation is sound, but Paw stopped listening a long time ago. He didn't read any of the last set of posts, evidently, because he did nothing to counter my evidence (that you supported) that mining is exponentially more profitable than smithing. Basically, mining earns the money, and then you "pay" for smithing experience because your return goes way down. Smelting, conversely, actually can make you a few bucks, but is a slower process.

Ah ha! Being only about 3 months into playing (and being a very unspectacular player at that), I'm still a long way from party hat status, but didn't know that there was as much volume available as there is. With that type of volume, then traditional and typical economic indices can apply to the situation. Your studies are correct in that they can serve as sort of the "tech stock" high risk heavy fluctuating trade item that can be gloriously predictable, as opposed to the blue-chip always slowly rising prices of commodity items such as feedstocks (coal, logs, etc.).

Well, I think the topic post was well thought out and crafted, but my ignorance here spurns a few questions as to the legitimacy of accurate price tracking. How many P-hats does one person see get sold a night? 2? 3? Or is it a giant number when you stick around a market all night? And how do you know what the selling price was? Unless you are involved, there is no way to know for sure what the final negotiated price was. Analysis of the annual trend is easy, and can be monitored successfully, but to say there was a "crash" at night that rebounded seems a little short-sighted. Couldn't there just have been a lull in general activity amongst RS's richest? If there IS a really high volume of P-Hat trade (30 + / hour in one spot), then I would have to stand corrected.

Don't give me that flaming crap, because I've done a good deal of smithing from scratch. Smithing plates is NOT very profitable, it merely nets you a little pittance to go along with your experience. But the smithing part costs you a lot of money there. Assuming you get a great rate for the plate (1200), you used 10 coal and 5 iron to get there. -Each steel bar would sell for 600 (a total of 3000, or 1800 loss) -Each coal would go for 150, and 100 per iron (2000, or 800 loss) So by using your own resources to smith, you are forfeiting the opportunity to make a LOT more money. If you have an educated rebuttal for that (aside from the sophomoric flaming you've already exhibited), then I'm all ears.

No, they aren't. Remember that bars and ores and nats aren't free. Cannonballs are a huge nuisance to make too. Dead wrong. Going rate is 200 each, but I've been trying to sell 2000 cannonballs for weeks and have barely gotten a sniff. Even when I dropped the price to 190, I still got no replies. They do alch pretty well, that makes some sense to me. But rune really *ISN'T* that profitable, considering that you have to sell them individually, and they require an enormous investment, and the ores themselves are very, very difficult to get.

This has been something that has confused me since about two weeks after I started playing. Smithing, for whatever reason, has enchanted Runescape, and I have to admit I am one of those that enjoys it. The question remaining - WHY? [*:2kfxshqd]Compared to other skills, smithing is NOT profitable, and en masse usually leads to a loss.[*:2kfxshqd]With rare exception, the primary focused materials created (armors and weapons) are extremely common and easily found. [*:2kfxshqd]In order to MAKE a rune suit, it is nearly impossible to even get to the rocks necessary to mine rune without having something of comparable power to rune already. So you aren't unlocking neat new things.[*:2kfxshqd]Melee characters in general are out of vogue compared to mages and rangers. And yet, with all this known, I still have worked smithing nearly as hard as any other skill. I look for ways to turn the narrowest profit so I can do it more? What is it that makes smithing so enticing? What is it about smithing that should be carried over to other skills that would make them more appetizing? Is there a way to take what we've learned from smithing's enormous success and apply it to other skills?

Been playing a bit over two months. Maybe closer to three. 0 Drill Sargents 1 Freaky Forester (was maging, got the liederhosen hat) 2 Frogs (both mining, 1 token still, 1 hat) 1 Mime (was questing, got a face)

Great thread! I'm a noob because I mine much more quickly than some others with higher combat levels. And I'm a noob because I don't want to buy your absolute crap. And I'm a noob because I refuse to pay 50 per essence when I can get it for 25 at F2P. I'm a noob because I run from Edgeville to body altar via level 1 wilderness, but don't want to stop and fight in my clothes and body tiara. I'm a noob because I bother walking around with a low combat level. I'm a noob because I have to coexist in a game with immature 12 year olds.

I'm admittedly too lazy to read through the whole thread, so bear with me, but I think it would be faster to put the tinderbox LAST in your inventory. Doesn't the inventory automatically resort, taking the FIRST log from the inventory, and leaving the first spot open? So if you clicked on the last log, the second hole from the right (which would be right next to your tinder) would always be filled with a log. Not that it matters, really; there is a longer delay in FM for the actual lighting process, so you can't just rapid-click like we all do for fletching. Nicely written guide.

Very interesting, although you are not accounting for the time to set up the strings and bows as such. What is the fastest way to get the strings, other than buying them? The Gnome Stronghold? Seer Village? Inquiring minds want to know! :D

"Congratulations, you can now enter the legendary Mining Guild". teh w00t! When you finish a really long and difficult task (like a smithing project).

Really well done; a nice, complete guide that gives you all the info you need. Bravo. I think mining essence is kind of simple, but you definitely made a science out of it. I suppose cutting those seconds off the time make a big difference.

Sweet mother of raspberry Christmas! How the hell do you kids play for that long? If I can get 45 minutes from my day to sneak in a little gaming, I feel blessed! It is revelations like this that make me realize I will never be considered a non-Newbie in the eyes of most people here. Granted I've been playing for two days, but it probably wouldn't matter if it were six months, based on some of the things I read.