idunedain

I needed to find and read your other post that got locked to understand what you were talking about. Please post a link to it in your original post if you want others to understand what you mean by "that post that got locked". Anyway, you are not wrong in your hypotheses, but in your conclusion. Let me explain this: 1. A huge amount of maple logs enters the game each day from MTK and Jagex is aware of it. 2. A huge amount of maple logs sits in the GE at the lowest price and noone buys. 3. Jagex has set a minimum price for all items in GE, their price floor. Currently maples have reached this floor, but noone buys them still - simply because there is no demand for them, lowering their price further will not increase the demand. 4. Raising the maples price floor in the GE will not solve anything GE-related, you won't be able to sell them for a higher price as (still) noone wants them. --- 5. But there is an option to sell them to shops. Unfortunately, the price a shop will buy for an item is related to its GE price. So selling maples to a shop while they are at their floor in the GE is quite a bad idea. 6. Jagex stated (and you were right about this) that THEY WILL INCREASE THE PRICE FLOOR OF SOME ITEMS, including maples. Again, this will not make them easier to sell in the GE, but you could sell them for a better price to a shop. That's all there is to it. From this, you have deducted that you will be able to sell maples for 85 ea to a shop in the near future!?! :roll: I don't know where you got that price from, but it's really funny... why 85? Anyway, your idea to "invest" in maple logs is.. ok. You could buy lots in the GE at their current price floor. And you could sell them to the shop once this floor is increased. But don't expect huge amounts of profit, probably the new floor will be less than their MTK value, it doesn't make sense to be higher. And after 10 maples sold you'll get even less money from the shop. There are better items to invest in at GE, in my oppinion.

I completely agree and I feel the exact way that you do. It's a very well written article and it makes a very good point: Jagex is not treating its customers with respect, it is constantly misinforming and "lying" to them. I don't know how things happen exactly at Jagex Towers, but I imagine there have been a lot of stress in the past months. I think they were more or less forced to introduce poorly designed and tested features in order to remove RWT. So the updates were rushed, tweaks were made in the last minutes, etc. I really have the impression Jagex has left their "carefully planned" way of doing things (you know, designing an update for months, testing it for several months, etc.) and entered a "release it now, we'll patch it later" way. Unfortunately, it ressembles too much to what a lot of IT companies do :( Anyway, I disgress. Qeltar, both you and I agreed that Jagex QA does a very poor job and that the players are actually beta-testing the game. And, sooner or later, the player feedback is taken into account. But now it's something different, and I think we agree again: it's not only the QA that doesn't do its job, its the "communication departement" (marketing if you want) too. Or maybe it does it job too well? Jagex news announcements and KB articles have stopped being funny, have stopped being true to the game. They are marketing-written articles, oriented to sell an update to the players, often misleading them. Some things are left unspoken to be discovered by then angry players while some things are simply wrong, black-on-white lies. I'll give you two very recent examples from the last two content updates, the Christmas Event and the Scarabas Quest: - the KB originally wrote that fighting (not pelting) other players with snowballs will be available in minigames such as Clan Wars, Duel Arena, Bounty Hunter. It wasn't and the KB article was changed cowardly, without announcement, to remove the corresponding phrases. - the KB originally wrote that a new slayer monster will be available after the quest. It wasn't and the KB was changed after a few hours without announcement. I can provide proof of this, as I saved the original announcements, if anyone doubts it. Note how the articles never "forget" to mention something appealing for the users. Instead they mention that doesn't exist or they forget to mention the non-appealing things. Well, anyway, my point is not that mistakes have occurred in the KB articles. It happens. What I don't like is that they modify the articles without announcement. Not even a post on RSOF to say: we were wrong, snowball fights are not possible, stop trying for several hours in all the areas we mentioned. Not even answering a customer support query sent*. Nothing. Instead, "let's pretend we have never said it and hope they'll not notice it". No wonder players have lost their trust in Jagex' policies... *I sent a complaint (400 chars long :) ) about the changed KB article telling them I'm dissappointed and I wanted to let them know and that I don't want a reply to it. Well, I did get a reply. The same automatic one everyone got ("holiday season, unable to personalize messages, take this load of crap"). THAT annoyed me the most! Eh... to resume a longer post than I intended... I agree with the author of this article, Jagex is treating us worse and worse. And again, we are not talking about the updates, but the communication with their customers. It used to be different...

I may be wrong, but aren't Disciples located at the very end of the underground pass? How on earth does that equal a 5min trip??? You can enter from the other side, from the Elves' land. Lletya tele with a crystal is not far from the entrance...

If you get disconnected frequently, there are many aspects of the game you cannot enjoy. Like monster hunting, some team minigames, etc. Of course, you could still try to do them, but they'll be either risky or just annoying for others due to your disconnections. Lending items it will be just one of these aspects...

You forgot the KNOW-IT-ALL ones... I'm too lazy to search for examples, but you've seen them a lot with the recent updates. "Jagex should have done like this, it's better, they didn't think", "you are all wrong, this is what is going to happen", "let me explain to you why Jagex did this", etc. Oh, and does your post belong to one of the categories? :wink: Or is there a category like ... POSTS ABOUT POSTS ... or something :D

I am sorry for your loss, but what did you expect exactly? I have smelt several thousands of addy bars too, right before the GE. My cost was a little lower, as I used the huge amounts of coal from my kingdom. But I tried really hard to finish smelting them all before the GE came out, I sold them at their old price with a nice profit. I mean, it was obvious the prices will get lower due to the GE! When I think of all the posts commenting on the GE before it came out, everyone was announcing how they will sell stuff! Moreover, more and more people train at avianses and more and more addy bars are brougth into the game. When I realized this too, I stopped buying addy ores to smelt them... I'm sorry to tell you this, but all you have to do is to "read the economy" from time to time. If not, better stop playing "money games" :wink: It's an ever changing world and those who believe their money-maker method will never change are in for a surprise, sooner or later

Of course, excellent idea! I have an even better one actually! Why don't make posts after posts in all threads discussing the recent updates? And criticize the updates using the same arguments all over again. And again. And never stop, after all, what's the purpose of whining if you're not heard. By everyone. Several times. Or maybe they will change your mind? It's a possibility, even if I know it didn't cross your mind... I have yet to see you saying "I was wrong, you were right, I changed my mind"... Or maybe it simply happens that you're always right? :lol: ah, if you could only see yourself the way others see you... :lol: -- On topic: Whining or simply complaining, I do agree with you, it's a lot of it. But people don't like changes. With every update made, the game changes. There will ALWAYS be some who'll complain about it. Even if nothing changes, there are some who complain that nothing changes. That's the way it is.... and I'm sorry but you (or anyone else) will never manage to get your point through. Anyway, I'm glad you tried, I'm just more of a pesimistic nature

Nah, in this topic he'll talk AGAIN about Jagex' price manipulation and how they lied about the reasons of the 3k limit. Although don't expect anything from him soon, he's busy replying in 10 other threads explaining these same old rants of him. Back on topic, yes, the month was pretty impressive. It will be difficult to not feel disappointed when the December BTS will be out...

Qeltar, I think you have made your point with this article. YOU believe Jagex wants control and power over their game. YOU believe the GE is not a free market because the prices are controlled by Jagex. YOU believe this is bad, as well as other control-oriented updates by Jagex (e.g., Duel Arena). As seen from the replies you have received in this thread, there are some who agree with you and there are some who disagree. You try to argue your oppinion, they do the same with theirs. It is a good discussion and I congratulate you for starting it up. But I don't understand something. Yes, you made your point. Yes, you are trying to argue with those who disagree. But for how long? You can't possibly expect everyone agrees with you, can you? What is even worse, in my oppinion, why do you feel the need to state your point over and over again on all the related threads? (e.g., http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=719636). And heck, there are a lot of these threads! My point is, give it a rest, man! I understand your frustration and disappointment related to some of the recent updates. So I understand your desire to let it out via all these posts and critics. But calm down, breathe, enjoy the game you say you like. You have made your point, several times, maybe it's time to let it go (until the next update)? Unless of course you have an obscure reason to keep going and going and going at Jagex... Anyway, this is my personal oppinion, this is what I resent when reading the threads on the recent update. You are carrying civilized conversations in all these threads and most likely you will carry similar ones in the future. But for me, I'm bored and tired to see you stating over and over this point of view of yours. Feels more like a propaganda than a desire to sparkle intelligent arguments.

Here is what I think of the system and what will happen next. 1. Right now there are a lot more sellers than buyers in GE. If you don't believe, put an item - let's say black mystic bottom* for sale at the lowest price and you will see it's not selling. Make a buy offer for the same item at the lowest price and you'll buy it in 2 seconds. 2. Normally, when offer is bigger than demand, the price decreases. However, due to Jagex' limitation of 5%, players cannot try to sell their items for a smaller price. The best they can do is the lowest allowed price and this is not enough - all sellers try to sell at the same price. 3. Jagex stated that "market prices in GE" will be computed daily. This means that the price will finally decrease (as the market demands it), but very slowly and in daily steps. Due to this not-so-well-thought system, the market will evolve as it is supposed to, but very slowly. 4. What I'm trying to say is that you don't need to worry, the market will evolve freely, prices will get down, than back up, an equilibrium will be found and everyone will be happy. But it will take a lot of time, as the market cannot evolve in real-time, but only once per day. 5. I believe this update has a huge potential and it will be very benefic for my needs. I only need to be patient during this transitional period until the market equilibrium will be reached. Yes, it will take a while, but it's not like I can't play RS during this time... * black mystic bottom is just an example from personal experience, it's the same for most of the items, very few are in demand but not supplied at all. --------- I was expecting this update to get rid of some Treasure Trail items in bank, like a rune kite (g), enchanted top and bottom, etc. When I saw it's very difficult to sell, I decided to buy. I completed a lot of sets based on what I had in bank and stored them in my Costume Room. I thus achieved my goal of more bank space ;-) I strongly suggest to try to use the GE to buy items (assuming you need anything) for a little while. It's more efficient than to sell, for now. In a few days, while the rush is over, it will be great for selling too

Basically it says the Jagex staff could intervene if the market goes into a direction they don't like...

You are correct, there is no browsing possible. You can place a sell offer or you can place a buy offer. And the system will match the offers and make the transaction. This is going to be a big problem.. at least at first and perhaps beyond that. Suppose I offer to sell a widget at 10k and someone else offers to buy at 9k. We might both be willing to compromise at 9.5k but right now neither of us can find out that the other even exists. Yes, it won't be easy for low-supply items. Theoretically the most common items will even out as there will be many traders. But it won't be easy for the rare ones, you will need a lot of patience, multiple tries or use of a more traditional method (RSOF, world 2, etc.) I don't know the time-out period for an offer. The KB says your offer will not be completed if noone buys/sells, but how long will it stay valid? Forever? 1 day? 1 week? There are many gray zones in the KB article and I wonder why... For example, what are the tradeable items that cannot be exchanged in the GE?

You are correct, there is no browsing possible. You can place a sell offer or you can place a buy offer. And the system will match the offers and make the transaction. I think they implemented it this way to reduce the stress on the servers. The matching is done on server side on the dedicated DB and that's it. Otherwise, they would have to allow each client to the access the list of all items for sale and I can imagine the traffic it will generate. The only drawback I can see to this is that you need to know your price. When you sell, but also when you buy.

Not only that, but you cannot buy/sell the same item again immediately, you need to wait a small period. It doesn't say how long though... Seems pretty well thought, but let's wait and see...

It is impossible for them to please everyone. At least they recognize some valid points they didn't think of. Which is what is worrying, why don't they think of them? Are these points so subtle? I don't think so...

Well written article, as usual! In my oppinion even better than others you've written before, you know what I mean :wink: I agree with your point of view, I like the suggestions you made too. I haven't played the tournaments yet so I can't make any. I hope at least some of these suggestions will be addressed, maybe post them in the appropriate forum on RSOF as well? I share the same view as you on Jagex' QA department. I think their main job is to find bugs before realeasing the new feature and usually they do ok - of course some bugs will always go through, but that cannot be avoided. I'm not sure if it's the QA or another team in charge with validating the problems you identified. Regardless of the team in charge, I agree they definitely need to be more in contact with the game and the players. You spoke of the problems with the duel tournaments, but remember the assist system? It was released with assisting for woodcutting, mining, fishing too, then these features were removed as suggested by many players. Good example of Jagex listening to the players, their will to improve the game based on suggestions.. but also good example of a release not well thought. I mean, it was obvious for us, who play the game daily, from the first moment... it was not obvious for anyone at Jagex in the entire several months that passed from the start of the idea till its release? Jagex' staff really needs to be more in touch with the players and the game (maybe even play it?!?). And, who knows, maybe they will in the future. Until then, what we can do is exactly what Qeltar did: praise the good parts, identify the bad, suggest improvements. In other words, we'll act as beta-testers for Jagex...

I get the same impression as well.... I don't know what Queltar's real intentions are, so I won't say anything more about this, but I'd like to point out something. His guides put aside, everything that Queltar writes consists of critics made to Jagex. Constructive criticism is good and I'm rejoiced everytime I see someone arguing their point of view and providing potential solutions instead of the huge quantity of usual rants. But... Queltar, you should know that critics are much better received when they are accompanied by positive feedback too. If your aim is to make the guys at Jagex read your essais and really take into account your suggestions, you should add some praises in there as well. Surely they do good things from time to time, don't they? I like the points raised by your posts a lot (even if sometimes I don't agree with your point of view). But now, when I see a new essai written by you, I already know you'll criticize them. It gets boring after a while and you're starting to lose a faithful reader. That's not good if you're trying to get your messages to pass through all the way to Jagex... I'm quite curious about what his explanation will be as well... I hope he'll not ignore this question

+1 I totally agree with you, Adamfostas. Yes, Qeltar's idea is good in theory, police the internet, police runescape, make them a safe environment for our children. But in practice not everyone plays buy the rules. No matter how hard you try, there will always be some trying to abuse the system, to go around the rules, for whatever ends they have in mind. The solution? Be able to react appropriately to them. Or in the case of parents, prepare your children for this. No matter how hard you try to protect your children, sooner or later they will still need to face "bad" situations by themselves. I'll give another analogy as well. I have recently had my driving licence and I remember a "lesson" learned during my driving classes. When I had green light I was passing through intersections without too much bother, knowing the others have red light. Till one day when one came from my left with high speed after having crossed a red light. Nothing bad happened, but my instructor calmly explained me that when driving you have to be careful at what the others do too, not only to you. You cannot assume everyone will drive by the book, be sure "bad situations" will occur sooner or later. That's how life goes... going on a crusade against rule-breakers and abusers might help from time to time, I won't deny it. But it is seldom enough. Anyway, my 2 cents worth...

Congratulations, a very well written article! First of all, let me just say that, regardless of me agreeing with your oppinions or not, I simply love your articles. Well thought of, well written, they always push the reader to think about things (s)he's usually ignoring. Well done again and keep up the good work, I look forward to your posts/articles. Back to the topic, while I generally agree with the points you made, there is a point I'm going to underline. It is similar to what Duke Freedom was saying concerning the "lemmings": Good real-world economists are also pshychologist or sociologists. While the economics could do wonders by predicting behaviours using "incentives", a little (mass) psychology is needed too. I really think everything will happen like you said, but after a small transitional period. Some people will be afraid - the same lemmings that cry out loud the economy crashes - and they will not act very rationally, at least for a while. Behind every character there is a human being and I *know* how responsive the humans are to a crowd effect, how a feeling (usually of panic, fear) can spread out even not grounded on physical facts. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that, for a few days, maybe one week, there will be a little chaos, but then things will get back to normal. Some people will find the new normal better, some worse, like you analysed it. Some will try to take advantage of the transitional period and some will succeed and others will fail... But that's how life *goes*. After all, I consider myself lucky: unlike real life, in this game I have been warned of a significant change that will happen in my "world". If I consider myself a rational person, it will be my fault and only mine if I fail to adapt to this change. Nothing stays the same for ever...

To better explain how I see things, I'll use an example. I have level 84 herblore, which, as you can imagine, means I have made lots and lots of potions. Regardless of how I obtained the herbs for them (mostly by farming), I had to sell these potions. Now, I have for example 700 super restores (3) for sale. I can post on the official forums I'm selling them at 8.5k or 9k each. If I do this I'll find buyers, but usually in quantities of 50 each - it's a good deal for someone who needs these pots so they'll take it. However, I can also post to sell them at 8k ea if they are bought all at once. And, trust me on this one, I sell them almost instantly. The person who buys them is probably a merchant - (s)he'll try to sell them at 8.5k-10k each later but in smaller quantities. Now, I prefer to sell the end result of my skills at a lower than normal price especially to appeal to merchants. This means I can sell faster and I don't "waste my time" trying to find buyers. IF the Exchange system will work as we imagine, then I won't need to do this. I can put my stuff for sale at the normal price (say 9k each) and forget about it. It will sell in bulks of 5 or 50, not all at once, but it will sell in the end... and during this I can do whatever I want with my time. In my view, this Exchange system replaces the merchants, or at least some of them. Their existence was motivated by the time spent finding buyers/sellers... you were ready to pay more to buy in bulk, for example. If you don't spend any time finding buyers/sellers, you don't need to trade with them. That is to say, of course inventive players will find means to take advantage of the new system :D We'll just have to wait and see...

[X] Became a Member Quests [X] Barrows Gloves [X] Ancient Spells Unlocked [X] Lunar Spells unlocked [X] Been inside the Death Altar before [X] 100+ Tears in Tears of Guthix [X] All Quests Completed Champion Challenges [ ] Obtained a Champion Challenge Scroll [imp] [ ] Obtained a Champion Challenge Scroll [Goblins] [ ] Obtained a Champion Challenge Scroll [skeletons] [ ] Obtained a Champion Challenge Scroll [Zombies] [ ] Obtained a Champion Challenge Scroll [Giants] [ ] Obtained a Champion Challenge Scroll [Hobgoblins] [ ] Obtained a Champion Challenge Scroll [Ghouls] [ ] Obtained a Champion Challenge Scroll [Earth Warriors] [ ] Obtained a Champion Challenge Scroll [Jogres] [ ] Obtained a Champion Challenge Scroll [Demons] [ ] Defeated The Champion of Champions Mini-Games [ ] Pharoahs Sceptre from Pyramid Plunder [ ] Guthan Spear from Barrows Minigame [ ] Phasmatys Flag from Trouble Brewing [ ] Fight Caves Completed [ ] 4000 Chompy kills [ ] Finished the Rogues Den Maze [ ] Any Void Knight Piece of Clothing/Guthix Mace [ ] Gold Castle Wars Armor Piece [ ] Robin Hood Hat from Treasure Trails [ ] Manta Ray from Trawler [ ] Sea Turtle from Trawler [ ] Maximum Mage Training Arena Points [Orangish Hat] [X] Completed Stronghold of Security [ ] Won a game of Fight Pits with 20+ people [X] Bones to Peaches Unlocked [X] Completed Mage Arena with at least one god spell Guilds [X] Mining Guild Access [X] Legends Guild Access [X] Fishing Guild Access [X] Champions Guild Access [X] Warriors Guild Access [X] Heroes Guild Access [X] Rangers Guild Access [X] Magic Guild Access [X] Cooking Guild Access [X] Crafting Guild Access [X] Prayer Guild Access [X] Rune Defender [ ] Perfect Score in Rangers Guild Minigame Monster Drops [X] Dragon Chain from Kalphite Queen/Dust Devils [ ] D2H from Chaos Elemental [ ] Dragon Axe from Dagganoth Kings [ ] Warrior Ring from Dagganoth Rex [ ] Beserker Ring from Dagganoth Rex [ ] Mud staff from Dagganoth Prime [ ] Seers Ring from Dagganoth Prime [ ] Seercull from Dagganoth Supreme [ ] Archers Ring from Dagganoth Supreme [ ] Dragon Shield Left Half Drop [ ] Abyssal Whip Drop from Abyssal Demons [X] Dragon Legs/Skirt from Metal Dragons Games Room [ ] 1500+ Rating in Runelink [ ] 1500+ Rating in Draughts [ ] 1500+ Rating in Runeversi [ ] 1500+ Rating in Runesquares Player-Owned Houses [ ] Sat on a demonic throne [ ] Got trapped in a Greater Magic Cage [ ] Used a Scrying Pool [X] Mounted Fish from fishing [X] Mounted Head from any monster Moderators [ ] Seen a Jagex Mod [ ] Became A Player Moderator [ ] Been muted by a player mod Random Events [ ] Full Mime [X] Full Camo [X] Full Zombie [X] Full Lederhosen [X] Spirit Seed [X] Any Bird Egg Skill Related [ ] Top 10k in every skill [ ] 100+ Combat [ ] 126 Combat [ ] 200m xp in a skill [ ] 99 in one skill Seasonal Items, Retired or not [ ] Own/Owned a Party Hat [ ] Own a Scythe [ ] Own a Rubber Chicken [ ] Own a Yo-yo Miscellanious [X] Unlocked Dragonstone Chest in Taverly [X] 180k Crystal Bows [ ] Burned a Fiyr Shade [X] Obtained a Wiley/Lazy Cat [X ] Finished the Lava Maze [ ] White Knight Master [1600 kills] [ ] Obtained Skull Sceptre [ ] Own a pair of bunny ears [X] Every Monkey Greegree [ ] 2.1B cash [X] Own all three completed prayer books [ ] All Musics Unlocked [X] All Emotes Unlocked 38/99

Maybe a underwater treasure-hunt minigame in the "distant" future?

Bonus wc exp with any equipped, more for full set. No defensive bonuses and it can be stored in the costume room (according to the KB)

Any tips for such a short time? Running all the time and using super energy pots? I think it was taking me more to do a trip when I was runecrafting... Otherwise, good guide, I hope it helps the scared rcrafters out there ;)

Try to alch in the house of a friend who's training prayer on his/her altar. If you stay in the house (alching) while (s)he's banking, the house interface loads fast - thus improving his/her xp per hour. ;)