Jake_Corsair

Justified? Maybe not, but it's no different than things in real life. Such as a car. Is a better radio, company name, etc. worth the price jumps in them? If you have the money, then yes, it's worth it. Items in game are no different. Functionality has little to do with the prices, supply and demand are more of a factor. 1. Dragon woodcutting axe - I also own one, I got lucky and happened to buy mine 1 week before the update at 1.5 million. Now having achieved 99 woodcutting, I sometimes think of selling it. But something always makes me stop. Because of the fact that the only way to get a new one would be to buy it from another player again or go to the Dag Kings. One way is easier than the other, as such, it's gonna cost more to get it that way. Is it worth risking 9-10 million in items to get a 3 million gp item? 2. Robin hood - This one is a bit more rare, because you have to be lucky 2 times. Once to get a level 3 clue scroll and then to actually get it in the clue. So while the danger factor of getting it is considerably less than a dragon wc axe, you will probably spend more time at trying to get it. Which makes it again easier to buy from other players, but it's going to cost you for "their" (meaning whoever originally got the hat not neccessarily the seller) time. 3. Fury - This one I would probably agree with, being that it's also arguably the easiest one to obtain. I have one, and it's from doing the "chaos runes to tokkul" way. In my training, I've hardly ever used the spells that use up chaos runes. So all of mine have come from drops and such. At some point, I noticed I had collected over 45k chaos runes. It took no time at all (relatively speaking) to sell them to the store and buy a onyx. But the price does reflect the amount of money you would put into chaos runes to buy (or the amount you would have gotten if you sold for gp). So while easiest to obtain, the price is actually set by jagex and the players. By players in that chaos have a "set" street price, and by Jagex for the price in tokkul for an onyx in store (which is the only way to get one at the moment). All because of supply and demand rather than paying for the bonus any item gives. And like most things in game, in the future if there comes a different way to obtain these items, the prices will drop. Maybe not to a reasonable ratio between other similar type of items, but somewhat closer. But back on the subject of the dragon wcing axe, the real question would be. Before they updated it, was it really worth spending 1.5 million on an item equal to a rune wcing axe?

And some websites function totally on ads alone. YouTube (which has been mentioned in previous threads similar to this), works solely on ads and was bought by Yahoo for an extremely large amount of money. While ads may not cover the majority of expenses, it obviously covers a great deal or else they wouldn't continue to offer it.

What he means is that most updates are just scripted to be limited to members servers (i.e. "Members Item" on f2p servers). But anything that has been updated in f2p in the past has also been included for p2p. So the argument that it would take time away from p2p updates isn't really valid. But on the same note it's not really a valid argument to create a team to work on f2p updates, as they would be p2p updates anyway. Also the "p2p makes you better than f2p" comment, gonna have to say that I don't agree with that, and that it's kind of snobbish and egotistical to think that.

go back to the bar in the grand tree and talk to Daero, he'll take you back to the secret hanger.

If you've done Throne of Miscellania and Royal Trouble you can use them to gather herbs as a resource. Along with something like collecting maples (and nests) you can make most if not all your money back. Also train up agility a bit and go after Salarin the Twisted. http://tip.it/runescape/?page=agility_dungeon.htm

6/10

If I remember the quest and a help topic about this a while back. That "long winded" speech is actually a list of choices. Make sure you aren't just choosing the "never mind" option of a dialogue box.

Being one of those "lone adventurers", I'll give you my side of things. As tefda said, this is somewhat of a logical evolution of D&D type of gaming. But my experience when I was younger with that, was that some of my friends liked to play and others didn't. Trying to get a group together, get a good amount of time to play, get set up, etc. was more of a chore than made the game fun. Now with MMORPG's, you have a game set up. And if none of your friends (online or not) are on then you still have plenty to do. There is no dependency on other people. Another aspect is different styles of playing. All of my close friends now, we all play MMORPG's. But the thing is none of us play the same one as another. Why? Because we've tried it before, and we don't actually end up playing much because we're trying to do everything together. One person may want to train combat while another wants to train something else. Or we'd have a plan to do something but would have to wait on someone else or something. Also once we're all doing something together, one person acting alone can mess up the whole group. The fact that I'm not in total control of my character and am relying on other people to do what they are supposed too, is enough to keep me solo also. This is probably why most people complain about team content. (low levels at PC, flag holders at CW, someone not doing their job in BA, etc.) But as far as MMORPG's go, their first goal is to gain players. And since most players don't join as a group of friends, then primarily solo content has to be the main focus. Once you've got a community going, then team based activities can be added to encourage more actual multi-playing.

That may be true, the only thing I've ever trained in the wild was agility. And I took a few cakes with me. In hopes of getting to stay there a while (that's funny, I couldn't even type that out with a straight face).

True, but taking into account that there are around 900,000 members accounts at 5 dollars per. That's 4.5 million a month. And that's "guranteed" income. While a f2p player may have something come up and can't play for some time, thus not generating any income, the member that can't play for some reason has still given their money for that month. Also, their intent isn't to keep f2p players, but to get them to join members. Being a free game to start with, there is never going to be a shortage of free players. And as such the economy and community won't suffer either. As I've said in another post in this thread, I have no problems with f2p getting updates. But the attitude that f2p "should/deserves/is owed" updates, is what irks me. For players that choose (meaning they can get members but don't) not to get members, demanding updates, sounds a bit "greedy" (since we were throwing that word around earlier). And for those that can't (but would if they could) get members, it's an unfortunate aspect of business in that you only get what a company deems appropriate. Just because I use a company's product (and it works the way they say it will), doesn't entitle me to anything more. When HDTV becomes the standard in a few years, I'm certain that Best Buy (electronics store) won't just give me a new tv to upgrade me. But they will be more than happy to sell me one.

So you would rather gimp the entire wildernes just so that the mean pures can't get kills as easily? The chances of a pure hitting a GOOD number through a good deffense rating is not high. However, the chance of you hitting well (as a ballanced player) through their low deffense is much better. Because of a cooldown on healing it would give those that are ballanced an edge too because right now they have no way of "KO'ing" an enemy player. If food was reduced to a 3 second cooldown everytime you ate it would give said player more of a chance to KO, because chances are the damage a ballanced player takes will not be much. From a pkers point of view, I'd have to agree with you, Nadril. That makes perfect sense. But from a skillers point of view, that's even more incentive not to go into the wild. Which a good number of suggestions here have been people wanting more resources out there to lure more skillers to the wild. Introducing something to give pkers an advantage against someone that isn't looking to fight would reduce the number of skillers out there already. Unfortunately, there's no way to balance it for pkers and skillers. Is the wild just another place to train skills with an option to pk or is it a place to pk with a few extra places to skill?

You're gonna hate me Buckeye *g*. Your figures look a little better, but I'm thinking the number is less. Some more facts to twist around in your head #-o 70 f2p worlds with a max of 2000 people at 30 days is 4.2 million spots available. With 2.5 millon active accounts would be about 40 hours per month each account would be on (average about 1.3 hours a day per account). But the worlds average only about half the max pop. on them at any given time. Which comes to 2.1 million spots used each month. 2.5 million accounts would average less than an hour a day in game then. I think we can all agree the average player plays more than an average of an hour a day. Taking that into account, along with the fact that the worlds are hardly ever full at the same time. Personally I think the number of active f2p accounts might be closet to 1 million (maybe a little higher depending on what the avg. number of hours a person plays a day). At 1 million players (active) using the formula in my third paragraph would average players at just over 2 hours a day (which sounds a bit closer to me).

But like Nadril pointed out (and I had to edit to mention in a following post). There are 9 million free accounts, but this only means that 9 million were created, not that they are played (thus not seeing or clicking on links). A more accurate number would be to look at the worlds list on a busy time (such as the weekend) when the most people are logged in at any given time. Then total up the amount of players in f2p and p2p and then plug those numbers into your equation. Unless Jagex has some way of collecting individual accounts logging in (and shares that data), there is no way to actually know how many f2p accounts are actually used.

Or with the approval rating at least go back every 3-5 days and get it back up. You won't lose too much for letting it slide for a few days (in case you can't get on every day). But maples and flax (100% and 50% respectivly) are the best money makers from it. The flax sells well, and the bird nest bonus' from the maples make it even better. And like Sjakie said, make sure you keep a minimum of 750k each day in there so that you can get the make amount of resources collected. Although I hate to mention this (and I hope that Tip.It can make one themselves soon), there is a calculator on RuneHQ that can help estimate the amounts you will get from Miscellania.

Well I didn't wear a ring of wealth and it took nearly 5 hours total to get 2 of them. The first one I didn't get until after 2 hours down there. Must just be all about luck, while down there there were people that would get them quick and others (like me) that spent hours down there before anything.

Not sure how accurate it is, but according to the Jagex entry on Wikipedia in 2006 they reached 9,000,000 free players and 850,000 paying subscribers. EDIT: of course you have to factor in the fact that there are a good number of extra accounts people create. For whatever reasons (ruined a pure, wanted a different/better name, etc.) Obviously there aren't 9 million people playing on free servers. Nadril beat me to my edit lol

But they do update every once and a while. There have been three updates for f2p in the last 6-7 months. And while advertising does bring in some money for Jagex. Think about it this way. If Jagex charges $5 a month for members (USD), then viewing ads can't be more than that a month, otherwise they'd be cutting their own profits by offering members less than they'd get for them viewing ads. This is per person basis. As a whole with the number of f2p versus p2p players, advertising brings in a good amount. But at least with members, they know they have the $5 for that month. A player in f2p isn't a guranteed constant source of income, as they may not be able to play much that month or they may use something to block the ads.

Nadril isn't harsh, he just doesn't pull any punches when responding and is fairly blunt. I keep seeing how, the more updates f2p gets, the more players might be willing to go to members (or something along that line of thought). What could Jagex possibly add to f2p, that would make people want to switch to members? As Nadril said, there is plenty to do in f2p. And if after having done all that, someone still doesn't get members, there's probably nothing Jagex could do to change their minds. As far as community goes, there are other games out there without a free version that have communities just as good (if not better) than RS. It would dfinately affect the community and economy if f2p didn't exist, but I'm fairly certain the game would still go on. As far as Jagex "owes" f2p updates for their basis of the community/economy. They've already paid you by providing an unlimited time, free game. If at some point you become bored with that, you have the option to upgrade. What option do you have if your a member and become bored? What do you upgrade to then? Nothing. That's why most updates have to be geared towards members. A small team working on f2p updates may not affect the overall balance, but it counteracts the entire purpose of f2p. Which is to make you want more than you are already given. Some players would see 1 update a month as satisfactory, and never consider members. As I asked in my second paragraph, to those that choose not to become a member, I'm curious why not and what would it take for Jagex to make you jump at the chance to subscribe?

It's an amulet you get from the Enhraka's Lament quest. It has 4 teleport charges and teleports you to the temple right enderneath the granite mining spot in the desert. It's recharged by using it in a bucket of camel dung.

depends on what you're looking for. An occassional lvl 1 clue drop might bring you some of the "rare/newer" items for a good bit of money. But if you're thinking of doing them solely as your income, then it isn't as fast as other ways.

hehehe all those "scamming" items now untradeable. Guess some scammers are going to have to "work" for their money now. And the minigame sounds like it will be fairly fun. In the description of it, it says the temple is so big it's never been mapped, nor will it probably ever be. Wonder if it's a random map each time or something.

Another point, is that on the jagex corporate site, under company history, they state, that their original goals were twofold. The first to make a game that was commercially viable through online advertising, THEN to create a premium subscription game. So, the game being free in the beginning has little bearing on things. As it seems it's was always their intent to make a members version. The question "Should F2P get updates?". The answer is that they do. Maybe not as many as they'd like or not the update they want (a teaching tool for account security). But an update is an update. If Jagex truly didn't care about F2P, then there wouldn't have been any updates at all to the free game at all once members was introduced. The free game is self supporting in that there is nothing in it that "makes" anyone have to buy members to continue playing. It's all choice. As such, if you choose not to pay, then you accept that most updates will be for the premium version of the game. And no, being a member doesn't entitle you to updates. But with the number of other MMORPG's out there (especially ones that have better graphics and gameplay options), Jagex has to do something to keep members playing(and yes, paying). So what they can't do with graphics and gameplay options, they decided to do with almost weekly content updates. Name one game that the demo is more fun than the actual game? And word of mouth is not the only way, Jagex advertises at a number of sites (which is why there are so many complaints about miniclip, etc). And how is f2p a piece of "fatty steak"? All skills available in f2p can be trained to their max, their is no time limit and most of the content from members is also found in free worlds. So they are giving a "filet mignon". Because members is just like that, but a whole lot more of it. Earlier today when I logged in there were over 200k people playing at that time (my homeworld was actually full for the first time since construction came out, that I've seen). I think Jagex is well aware of attracting players to the game.

Stronghold of Security (as you mentioned) which included 4 new monsters to train on and a new way for f2p to teleport to barbarian village. A new bank in lumby and new prayers also. All three updates within the last 6-7 months. I'm all for updates for f2p (especially bank space), but I get tired of hearing how Jagex never gives f2p anything. I understand, not everyone can get members if they choose too. But that's a part of life, sometimes you just have to accept it and take what you can get. Actually Jagex doesn't owe any of us updates (certainly not weekly updates), past the month we are currently playing. At the end of the month, my $5 doesn't entitle me to any future consideration. All paying (or viewing ads) entitles any of us to, is the current time we are playing. Updates are produced as quickly for members, in order to entice people to continue paying $5 a month or(to a good extent) start paying $5 a month. If updates came more often for f2p, some people would wonder why bother with members then. They are a business, and there goal is to make as much profit as possible. Not to just make enough money to cover expenses and a little extra. Anything they can do to help increase those profits will always be a priority for them.

Or, just take your pickaxe and camulet. Mine till you die (as you're not wanting to keep the granite anyway). tele back with camulet and repeat.

My brother told me to get memebers straight away. The training for skills was a lot easier with more resources and such.