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Well yea, that's the whole point of the scroll to give you 10% seeds back, dead or alive. It'a actually more interesting with normal trees because you get seeds back for cutting down the tree, which means magic trees with hydra are an extra 250k an hour.

Heres an idea.. bank your effigies and use then when you have the skills to do so. This way you will not lose out on the great xp they give. Oh, you are impatient? well i guess crying about it on the forums clearly helps. More on what you said, people didn't get 99s because they wanted to assist people on effigies, it's just a minor addition to the game to encourage people training combat to also get more well rounded. Having all the effigies done by those who already have the levels but don't get them themselves defeats this purpose. Just a funny quote. Effigies are a part of runescape, not the other way around. Atm i'm getting a feeling as though you think jagex created effigies to give xp away to those that already have alot, where as judging by the level requirements it leads me to think otherwise. The fact that people can assist you on effigies doesn't mean you have to have them assisted. That's 90k xp you are giving away. Increasing the limit would make the actual training of those harder skills pointless(with 100k limit it's around 2 months for free 99 rc, where as it's a balanced 6 months atm).

60s with onyx? Lol. Good one. Try 45's max. Javelins are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO inaccurate you have no idea. ( the spec ) A maxed mage doesn't get in close combat with a meleer, that is what ice barrage is for. 45 max? i hit 45s with diamond, onyx bolt spec hits 60s easily, they are just rarely used. Javelins may be inaccurate on melee armor but they will easily tear trough lesser armor(as you can see on the first video you posted). Ice barrage can be countered by karils which stops most attacks and doesn't hurt melee combat ability, mage doesn't have that luxury. Also, are you really naive enough to believe mage has the highest dps in pvp? i mean really, have you ever maged? magic attacks are much slower than either range or melee and have much lesser max hits, which adds to the ability of not being able to KO people. Magic may be very accurate, but magic alone will just waste food with an easy solution(range armor) to counter it.

Muggi has always been a defender of magic... Also, according to him, zuriels > dragon bolts, but, should we at all be comparing zuriels to dragon bolts? If we want any kind of a fair fight the ranger should at least be using onyx bolts and morrigan javelins/throwaxes and what not. Also i'm in serious doubt if a zuriels mage can cast much on a spectral/armadyl ranger while getting blasted by javelin damage, poison and 60s from onyx, even at half speed. Do remember that a maxed ranger has good defence against all other combat classes while a mage would get blasted by melee in close combat and ranged at any combat.

So what you are actually saying is that 100m risk,super clicking ability and magic+ranged combo is overpowered... Dam, they must nerf that right now.

Thanks for the answer! if it's not too much to be asked, what prayer bonus was that with? I'm not quite sure what it was. I think it is SW Cape+Fury+Proselyte Chestplate and Platelegs, What ever that comes out too. Thanks. I guess this answers my question and propably means i won't be using it too much with bandos and super prays, but surely with proselyte.

Since pvm is much different than pvp I would say that I don't really have an figures tbh. <_< Says a guy who posted hybrid videos of how overpowered magic is...yeah. Those figures roughly respond to the respectful combat classes combat ability(against the class that is weak to them, mind) minus the special spell effects for magic.

Well atleast now you have some figures on how useful magic with SOL+ABN(not too hard to figure out i hope) can be. Assuming i'd have used ice barrage and not gotten the 2x damage increase it'd be around 22k vs. 35k DPS for the respectful classes. Unusable pots add about an equal amount of combat power over what would be used in pvp.

This thread is about pvp. <_< Oh sorry, I obviously forgot DPS doesn't matter in pvp.

Bringing some science(well, sort of) into the mix, mage slaying vs. melee slaying- CR with extremes/turmoil achieves 35k slayer xp an hour at kurdal dungeon, with a max hit of ~640 while magic(fire blast) with ovl/leech mage achieves 40k slayer xp an hour on ice strykewyrms with a max hit of 1106. Do remember that it's 2X + 40 damage with magic for that and + 40 damage for melee. Doesn't seem too overpoweed in terms of dps with that.

Thanks for the answer! if it's not too much to be asked, what prayer bonus was that with?

The easiest way is propably the best elemental spell you can use, SOL(or elemental for lower spells) and -65 magic attack on monsters that can't hit much on you(like level 3 rats). Just have autocast on and it will attack them until the monster dies...or not. BTW, you HAVE to stay at your computer if you do this...you HAVE to! Cost and speed is balanced by what spell you use, but chaos spells are proply quite good atm.

Lep, as far as i can tell, the video says nothing at all... cr is clearly getting owned and getting a lucky ko... Also isn't the rapier guy maxed? because he couldn't hit at all. That mush have been the unluckyest streak of nonhits....

Sold my divine for 4 arcane and 3a melee legs, which at the time was a great trade, only to have arcane crash 10 hours later. Pure cash wise it's propably on top of the list for now.

Wouldn't really say SS is the best weapon you can use there.... Overload every game, use soul split/turmoil, chaotic rapier,bandos, fire cape,berserker(i), specs with claws with spec restores, kill monsters more so than portals on good pc clans. Vls would propably be better for specs but that's a bit extreme. Well you did as for the best....

Well i do know that it's conveient to use and drains slow as i've been using it since i stopped using overloads for slayer, but i'm not too sure it's worth using if you factor in all the costs. At my repotting rate, it makes stats last ~40,5 seconds more every potting turn, with minimal combat ability increase.

I'm interested in if anyone has any information on the drain rate of bersrker prayer(possibly with turmoil factored in). Would it be efficent and or what is the prayer bonus at which it would become efficent/inefficent to use it while training with the costs factored in? I know it's quite a hard question to answer but it'd be nice if anyone had done the tests for this. Almost forgot, as it might be relevant, i'm repotting at 119.

I said that vls > cr, as in a weapon against another. With claws added in, then yeah, cr would be better unless you have unlimited spec rests, in which case vls is better than anything, 1 spec per 23 or so seconds....

Just learn to use the ge. Don't make rash desisions on buying items and don't sell your items all the time, manipulation clans actually make it much easier to buy raw materials and items cheap or make money off of them if you know what you are doing.

I'd say that soul split without turmoil isn't too useful, you are losing alot in having to use the inferior att/str/def prayers.

Watched the first video and well, looking at the constant good loot, he propably dies quite a bit. As for magic being overpowered, he never purely maged and hybriding really makes sense if you can switch that fast. As for magic being overpowered, i don't think a max mage can easily defeat a max ranger so propably not, though the new max hit of 50+ is scary.

Vls is still the best weapon in game(mostly beacuse of special), so no, fastest isn't always the best. Also vesta spear is best for corp, which is long speed aswell.

I can voulenteer to help, can complete any effigie and private chat always on, though i don't know if this would work well because any player can only assist another in a total of 2 stages.

There is a G rapier in game but i'm in serious doubt of it's usefulness at TD's.

Yea, svs, you are clearly wrong. Now that 99% of the bugs from dungeoneering have been fixed a maxed player will be able to open any door in any dungeon(barring dungeons with no herb patch).