Rebdragon

And your the one talking about contradictions... The definition of free will is being able to make a choice of one's own accord. You say that the choice was predestined (which I don't believe it was) and even if it was that doesn't mean that you didn't choose it. By making a choice you are proving free will. I think the problem we have here is that you are saying something is predestined and therefore we don't have free will. I am saying that no choice is predestined, but rather it is known by God based upon our personality and circumstances what choice we will make. I have had this discussion with many people in the past and generally it just degenerates from a genuine intellectual conversation to "No it isn't!" "Yes it is!" so in this instance I will make the choice to believe that our best course of action is to agree to have our differing viewpoints. Nope, I'm too stubborn to stop one post in. Bolded point #1: God knows what choice we're going to make (and theoretically, though a chain of cause and effect from the beginning of the universe, could possibly control it). Therefore, it appears that we have free will through our choices, but our choices are already predestined and controlled. Bolded point #2: If (if) God is omniscient, then He knows at any time what we are going to do at any time in our lives. It is already known what we will do, what choices we will make, before we make them. They are predestined.

Darn, I got good hair, but I've got some frikking gross toes... nails are fine, but mine are pretty long, and the knuckles are huge :lol: . And there you go, your bad image for the day :P .

I can't know whether we have free will or not only God would know. However my experiences points towards free will. Your beliefs are contradictory. That means at least one part of your beliefs (God is omniscient or free will exists) is wrong. Stop asserting that you don't know what God knows. No one does. That has nothing to do with the discussion. I think your position is actually the wrong one. God IS omniscient and humans DO have free will. Just because God knows everything that ever is/was/will be doesn't mean that we didn't choose these things. Look at it this way. When you wake up in the morning you choose to either get out of bed or sleep for another five minutes. That is most definitely your choice. This proves human free will. However God knew weather you would get out of bed or sleep some more. Does this mean he decided for you? No! It merely means he had prior knowledge of which CHOICE you would make. I can't prove God's omniscience by any means other than things like Jesus' prior knowledge of his death, but this even more proves human free will. Seeing as Jesus was both 100% human and 100% divine he is the only example to prove both human free will and God's omniscience. He choose to be crucified for our sins. That was his humanness, but he also knew that Simon Peter would deny him 3 times which is proof enough of his omniscience and hence his divinity. I don't know what it is, but I both love and hate explaining this: Let me put it this way. Let's say that you have two choices, them being X and Y. If that God of yours is omniscient, does he not know what choice you make? Thus, you technically have the choice to make choice X or Y, but if God knows you're going to choose choice X, if he is omniscient you're going to choose choice X, and there's no way of getting around that. You are destined to make choice X no matter what you do if there really is an omniscient God. If you don't make choice X then you are denying the fact that that God is omniscient. So, it appears that we have a choice to make X or Y because we don't come in contact with God, but in reality we're guna make choice X whether we like it or not, unless of course there isn't an omniscient God. Get it? Again, if you didn't get it, we make a choice, that doesn't mean we have free will.

I can't know whether we have free will or not only God would know. However my experiences points towards free will. Your beliefs are contradictory. That means at least one part of your beliefs (God is omniscient or free will exists) is wrong. Stop asserting that you don't know what God knows. No one does. That has nothing to do with the discussion.

Yes. Okay, there we go. You believe God is omniscient, and you believe in free will. Contradiction party \ .

That's what we call evading. For three posts in a row. Let's try this: do you believe God is omniscient? Yes or no will suffice. Isn't it pretty obvious what I think? Sorry...YES. Question #2: From God's perspective, do you believe we have the power to shape who we are and choose the good or bad path, to become worthy of entering heaven of our own accord through our personal decisions? I can't answer from anyone elses but my own perspective. I think we can't become worthy of entering the heaven on our own. Only Jesus can give us a ticket to heaven. Ugh, more evading. Okay, I'll rephrase the question. Do you believe we have free will?

That's what we call evading. For three posts in a row. Let's try this: do you believe God is omniscient? Yes or no will suffice. Isn't it pretty obvious what I think? Sorry...YES. Question #2: From God's perspective, do you believe we have the power to shape who we are and choose the good or bad path, to become worthy of entering heaven of our own accord through our personal decisions?

Thats not the point, the point is God has predetermined who will and who will not [bleep]. What is the point of creating people who are predetermined to [bleep]? Are we supposed to be thankful for that supposed free will and live the rest of our life burning and being tourtured? It's like a parent letting a child run out into a road of busy traffic because they have the free will to do that. What's the point in creating a world at all? God doesn't need humans for anything. Yet we are here. God knows - I don't, that pretty much sums up my responses about this question. That's what we call evading. For three posts in a row. Let's try this: do you believe God is omniscient? Yes or no will suffice.

You would say this even if you were disregarding age? They could be 55 or 15 it doesn't matter. Does this change your view on it? Oh, when you're talking about when they're on they're own, it's their (the son/daughter's) problem :lol: . I'm referring to the time period when the parent is supposed to be nurturing and caring for the child full-time, basically up until college.

Parents should simply use reason to know when it is needed that they butt in, and only to help their child. Parents should always do whats best for their child, even if it means breaking up a relationship.

Living, breathing evidence that Jagex is forced to make everything easier. Both mature players and idiots alike can't live without this game being easy.

You're going to need a better rep to pull of a statement like that. I've asked "what if" plenty of times, and it never seems to help me. So instead of pouting about it all the time, I just stopped asking "what if?". I'm a decent enough person with a good enough family and life, asking "what if?" would be a waste of my time, and an arrogant waste of time at that.

Yeah, and I've never heard a human being say "Wow, science has brought me so much fulfillment in life! I'm so glad I've spent my life acquiring knowledge that neither affected my heart nor helped me love the people around me". When you're on your deathbed, are you going to say "Gee, I just wish I had studied science more!"? Actually, I could see that being thought. Science is fascinating and we're always finding out new stuff. Once you read the Bible...That's kinda' the end of it. You know all there is to know about it. These people who claim "Oh no, I've read the Bible 100 times and I'm STILL learning about God!" are dilusional. God isn't that mysterious if you're religious...He's only mysterious to people like me who just don't get why it's accepted that he's a "loving God" while at the same time he'll send good people to Hell. I don't believe that, however...But you do. Lol, the Christian God is so illogical that it's not even funny. Okay, maybe a little: (Christian beliefs) 1) God is omnipotent and omniscient. 2) We humans have free will, granted by God. 3) Be bad and don't accept Jesus, you going to Hell foo'. I love how the second part of point one contradicts point two, and makes point three not make any sense. I mean, we're predestined to go to Heaven or Hell at birth by that logic :lol: . Hell's just a tool to scare people into being good, and to make the good people feel cocky about how everyone else is going to heck :lol: . Ah, the power of illogical but hopeful karma.

Or He could have just created our universes scientific laws and let it be. I don't know what religious fanatics you seem to know so well, but most religious people believe that God and Evolution go together, and that the Bible can be wrong. Personally I've given up on taking anything in the Bible literally, and I just look for the meanings. Revelations is an interesting read though :) . Again, it doesn't have to agree with the Bible for God to have dun it. The Bible is erroneous. Me neither :-w . Again, agreed, it's total bull. Then again, "accepting Jesus" could be a parallel to being an overall good person, and following Jesus as a precedent. That's where I personally find Christians to be wrong in thinking that you have to be a Christian to "accept Jesus' [teachings] into your heart". I mean, what the hell, "Ghandi's going to hell'? I got quite a laugh out of that one. Again, agreed. Don't really see where you're going with this tangent though. You seem to like going out on random rants in your religious responses :P . Geez this is a long tangent :-w . It just keeps going... Side note: Christians picture God as a loving God, and generally don't agree with the excuses and myths the Hebrew people made up to justify and explain what happened to them. It's Greek theology all over again :lol: . And going... Side note #2: God doesn't send us to Hell- that's just something made up to make people do good, as well as giving people the idea of karma being real. We send ourselves to Hell. Oh, and yes, those who believe because it's simply a more suitable option than atheism really need to start thinking instead of whimping out. Amen. So speaks Tigra, thus ends the tangent.

I'd have to say Origa (for any GITS peeps) and Evanescence are great to listen to while on the comp :) .

Personally, it doesn't seem like this show will last more than a month, and that's if it's only on once a week. I mean, sure, seeing people be stupid is funny, but there's only so long something like that can last.

How does science go against believing in God? If anything they coincide :-s . We can't really come anywhere close to disproving a God with science; the God could easily be a transcendent one who just created everything and let things roll, or be in some form we can't possibly begin to understand. Science is corrently not, and will never, disprove the existence of a God. Maybe the Bible, but not a God. Personally, I don't think God talked to people and things any more back then than he does now :-w .

If you read about the ascension it's not very likely that it was figuratively speaking. It would be an interpretation in which you assumed that Jesus body must be in a tomb somewhere. To me you can't compromise with the Bible, either it's the truth or it's nothing but a couple of well-written stories. I don't want this to turn into another Bible thread... but it's not like you have to be a fundamentalist to agree with the Bible. You can see the deeper meanings and not take it literally, and thus still believe in it :-s . I believe this falls into the category of "STOP THINKING THAT TO BE A CHRISTIAN YOU HAVE TO BE A FRIKKIN' EXTREME FUNDAMENTALIST!!!". Oh, and 'kay Warrior, I get what you're saying :P .

He should have shown Tom&Jerry :lol: .

If you take out anime (I'd have a long list, and my fav anime is in my sig anyways lol), I suppose that you can't go wrong with Spongebob :-w :P . Especially if you turn on some rock music and mute the TV... it's like the characters sing in the middle of the show :lol: . Try it, it's hilarious how often their mouths match the lyrics.

To prove the Bible WRONG? You shouldn't try to prove things wrong, you should seek the truth. Can't argue with that. That's all I'll say on that. :anxious: But trying to find out what is and isn't Truth is seeking Truth :lol: . If there weren't so many alternative motivations for doing something like this, I'd probably be more open to the idea. Right now though it just seems like a hoax :? .

That's exactly what this debate involves. So there was gods in ponds and trees back then? No. Just like I doubt there's a god ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã

The "rich and poor" argument is an analogy, a comparison; I'm not talking about their genetics, but the fact that the richs' way of living is superior to the poors', in the same way that genetic engineering would make those manipulated "superior". I feel that we can't go anywhere in this debate if we don't agree on this point though- will genetic engineering definitely create a new race, a complete different species that is incapable of breeding with the current human race? Or will they simply have superior traits, but still be human? I know there will be sterile people out of this, but honestly, will a whole entire new species be formed? It seems like the scientist(s) would have to purposely make it so that the newborn child would not be able to breed with humans, yet breed with every genetically manipulated "human". If altering ones genes guarentees that the new human will be incapable of breeding with current humans, and instead breed with manipulated humans, please say so, because I honestly don't understand the concept. Oh, and of course I care about the bad things that could be done with it. It'd be ignorance not to realize the plethora of possibilites for abusing genetic engineering :-s . And for the record, I'm against designing ones own baby, save remedying fatal diseases.

^ Let's stay off "God" debates, prove his proof is illogical, and get back to talking about the Bible please. Anyways, your reasoning is also illogical Celt. What, just because people thousands of years ago couldn't view microorganisms nor see any proof of them affecting the world means that microorganisms don't exist? To them it would seem highly improbable that they existed, yet we know that they do, and know that they affect our life in an indefinite number of ways. For all we know, [a] God could be just like that.

1) It's "therefore". 2) Do you know how proofs work? 3) I believe your quote exists. That's both making a false statement and accepting it as a conclusion at the same time.