langer

@ Ravian...once again! What is the difference between skill combat bonus and equipment combat bonus? I mean if someone has put the time and effort to get the levels and complete the fight caves, they should have an advantage over someone that has chosen not to do it. This is currently how it works for all untradeable items. Remember that time is money - getting the necessary levels has an opportunity cost. You say that it's the player's choice to either get the proper items or face the consequence, why can't this be applied to herblore? Because of the astronomical cost and time it takes to get to level 90? If these potions, instead of adding to the skills, were to affect the equipment bonus for a short period, would this be acceptable? I have a feeling that the big issue is the huge gap for a majority of players to access these potions quickly.

That's what I'm talking about! Gj 2 more seconds gathering tears for guthix is always appreciated.

Seeing as those skills have requirements for the quest, this is not really a surprise.

I'm gonna wait for the reward before starting the quest. Yeah I'm a bad quester.

Well, I never said that no F2Per with 99 skills will ever subscribe. I just said I was less likely than someone that invested that much time in the half game will switch to the full game. My question is : why should Jagex reward these specific players? Of course it wouldn't stop people from subscribing, but it would give F2Pers a goal to reach...thus giving them less incentive to subscribe. It's purely an economial question.

So are food. If you're using sharks, and lost to someone by a mere margin only to be told later that he was using manta ray, you can't complain that it's unfair because he decided to invest a bit more, you didn't. For rings, it's just a matter of more effort, but you can't complain if you're losing more fights thanks to the ring slot disadvantage if you're not willing to invest more time/money for them. But the fact that the potions have level requirement to use means that IF Jagex organise some sort of tournament, high herblore becomes one of the new hidden requirement to stand a chance of winning, in addition to good food, super set, non-level based good equipment. Especially true for magic, and that's only because melee and ranged potion series have a buffer zone. You should also consider this: Could summoning have worked as how it is now, but does not add to your combat level? Meaning that you don't mind max combat level at 126, and people who invested time/money to train summoning having a combat advantage without displaying it in combat level. That last question is a toughie because for the most part, summoning familiars are useless in single way PVP, where I would assume combat level matters. The same argument you use for the rings can be applied with the exact same words to high level herblore. My point is if unlocking rings is an hidden factor and is accepted, then so should herblore. Using sharks over rocktails, manta rays or potatoes is a matter of choice. Anyone not using the best items available is essentially shooting himself in the foot. The same reasoning could be applied with extreme potions. My question is mostly: why is time/effort rewarded in some case and this time denied?

I still think the imbued rings are a comparable example because much like these new potions, they require time to acquire and they are hidden to your opponent. Of course these potions give a bigger edge to the one having them than the difference by the rings but it's the same concept. They might not be level dependant but they still require time to get.

I agree with everything you pointed out except maybe the skillscape part but let me explain why first. On a personnal basis, I have no problem with F2P getting the 99 capes if they are toned down in terms of stats. These are currently the 2 second best melee cape in the game if you have them trimmed. I wouldn't mind if a F2P skill cape add + 5 def and + 2 pray instead of the current +9 with +4 pray. On the business side of the argument (Jagex point of view that I can only guess at), giving high end-game rewards to free players only encourage the behavior to not suscribe to the full game. Anyone with enough XP to get a 99 in F2P will most likely never subscribe to members. Why would Jagex reward those who do not contribute financially to their game? I know you will point out that they contribute by "viewing" ads... It's been establish in this thread or the F2P skillcapes thread that the marginal contribution by F2P player is about 25 times less than an actual paying member. F2P should get updates, some are more a priority than others. Combat triangle and bank space are indeed things that should be on the table.

F2P should get updates...at exactly the same pace they have been getting over the last 5 years. I'm fine with that. The stop playing or start paying argument is often used towards F2Pers that feel their game is getting boring. It's mostly just an advice. The reason why there is an unnoficial top 250 F2P is because top F2Pers want to shine under the spotlight. I don't know who tells you that you are not players, it's pretty obvious F2Pers are players. F2P is not gonna go anytime soon, this has absolutely nothing to do with this argument. It is indeed very worth it to go P2P especially compared to F2P. I could use the same generalisation towards F2Pers regarding the fact that they don't understand how a business works. Give too much for free and your customers will not be inclined to pay. Give not enough and they won't be inclined to test the paying version. I think Jagex balances their updates pretty well. I indeed double posted, burn me on top of the highest mountain.

Some F2Pers like to dream of a better game, some of us P2Pers like to remind them it's already out there. If this thread didn't exist, the P2P trolls in these boards (like Dzihouchan) would have to take their trolling elsewhere. I see this thread as a kid's wish list for christmas. It's actually one of my favorite thread along with the ban and mute sticky.

Still, it's true that you don't pay. I'm P2P and I'm still bombarded by advertisments everytime I go to the RS homepage. As for the no pay, no play comments about "who cares", Well Jagex cares. If everyone had access to the full game without paying, they would sure go bankrupt very quickly.

I studied for my degree while fishing monks and lately rocktails, woodcutting yews and eucs, slaying dark beasts, smithing bolts and arrow tips and cooking when I only had some reading to do. I usually play with a minimised window while I check some movies or tv shows. I rarely play this game with 100% attention on the screen.

@ Ravian Following your logic, the same should apply to the imbued rings obtained with Mobilising Armies. The higher bonus they give are hidden like potions. How do you adress this?

So then what is ( should be) the correct combat formula? combat skills? Or a combination of combat skills and the items unlocked by quests and non combat skills? I never mentionned void, but specifically pointed to recipe for disaster gloves. These requires non combat skills to access, should these non combat skills add to your combat level when you have unlock the item after completing the quest? By the way, the post before mine didn't answer my question towards cooking. Does unlocking the best imbued rings from Mobilizing Armies gives combat levels as it gives you access to the highest bonus rings in the game. Something that cannot be seen by looking at your adversary visually or via his/her combat level.

It should only be determined by your combat levels? What about items? Untradeable quest items? Should the best untradeable items give you combat levels? Herblore doesn't make you better in combat unless you have access to extreme potions. Cooking doesn't make you better in combat unless you have the requirements for the recipe for disaster gloves... should cooking add to your combat level? This is the same problem. How do you treat those? You seem to be the wisest person around here, enlighten us!

Doesn't that statement defeat your whole argumentation? Having the proper herblore level permits you to use the extreme potions, that's how the game worked for a day and IMO should have stayed that way.

The difference between 69 prayer and 70 prayer in combat levels is about 0.125, but the ability to use piety over chivalry gives a larger boost than indicated by the slight combat level gained or not.

I just did an Iron Dragons task with extreme attack and strenght along with super anti fire while wearing my zammy book. I noticed a big difference as the task flew by quite fast. One task is not a sample though and so far, these new potions are pretty awesome for slayers.

I sure can. Granted it's not on the same level in comparison, but it's the same principle.

From a pker's point of view, I'm not surprised. These potions gives a pretty interesting bonus for combat training and slaying. Not pointless at all.

Thank you for showing us the I.Q. of a typical pker. I have nothing more to say as you kinda prove my point. You want to have fun, sure, but as long as no one has an advantage over you because you are lazy to get that advantage yourself.

By that attitude, cooking fish helps you in Pvp to stay alive. We MUST add cooking levels to PVP. People who fletch their own bows must have their combat levels incrased. People who craft their own dragonhide armour MUST have their combat levels incrased. ETC. Jagex really need to completely rework how combat works in Runescape, making it much less random and having it actually represent what levels you have in your combat skills. Armour needs to reduce the max hit of someone attacking you. I fail to see how someone can hit a 75 on me when i'm wearing no armour, and still do the same when i'm in full Statius? In this case, Herblore gives you a clear advantage that others do not have, and therefore should add to your Combat Level. The ability of cooking Monks doesn't give you an advantage: a player with a lower cooking level could just buy the cooked Monks off the GE. I think removing the pots from PvP is a good thing, however, removing them from Minigames as well was a stretch too far. Void is untradeable so that should be allowed in PvP? As is anchor. Unradeable doesn't mean they can't be used in PvP thats just a poor, poor excuse which people are using because they don't like having a disavantage in PvP. If they made supers untradeable would it be unfair? Nope its all part of player development, when I started pre-GE and trade limits the only real way to get potions was to make them yourself. You either brought in bulk, had to repeatedly go to world 2 or make them yourself. Don't you lose imbued rings upon death? Don't you lose void upon death? Seems you two either missed my point or don't understand the concept of risk vs. reward. Edit: Oh and sure, the potions are lost upon death, but what is that compared to void or imbued rings? You don't lose the time you've spent on leveling your herblore up. Same thing for imbued rings.... you can get another enchanted as long as you have the rank and the credits. If you compare two players with the same stats and gear but one has the ability to get an imbued ring vs the other one with a plain ring... Should the one with the MA rank get a higher combat level base on the "possibility" to have that ring? You also don't lose the time you spent getting your MA rank when you die.

That's a pretty good question.

By that attitude, cooking fish helps you in Pvp to stay alive. We MUST add cooking levels to PVP. People who fletch their own bows must have their combat levels incrased. People who craft their own dragonhide armour MUST have their combat levels incrased. ETC. Jagex really need to completely rework how combat works in Runescape, making it much less random and having it actually represent what levels you have in your combat skills. Armour needs to reduce the max hit of someone attacking you. I fail to see how someone can hit a 75 on me when i'm wearing no armour, and still do the same when i'm in full Statius? Cooked fish, bows and dragonhide armour are all tradeable, just sayin'. And about the full Statius thing, you lose the items upon death. It's a risk vs. reward system. You don't lose Herblore levels upon death. Anyways, I'm not trying to get into an argument here really, I'm just stating facts. I'm neutral with this update, and don't really care, since I don't PK much these days anyway. Getting the best rank in Mobilizing Armies gives access to the best combat rings... Should Jagex give combat levels to thoses with the maximum rank in MA? This is exactly the same thing. I don't mind that people with dedication get better rewards. This move by Jagex is the result of giving in to the typical lazily built pker. This is a slap in the face to all mains out there. I still think the potions are nice and the update a good thing, but that removal leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

This is so short sighted. Extreme potions will give a significant boosts to any form of combat training. Slayer, which is the slowest skill to level, has just received a slight nudge upwards. Anyone with the level to make them and not using them is by definition, a noob. If you were only talking about overload potions, you might be right, but you lack the ability to make yourself clear. Try school for a couple days, it helps.