langer

Good luck. Phoenix feathers aren't tradable so they won't be used extensively for training herblore. Are any of these new potions going to be made extensively for herblore training? Aside from hardcore slayers, campers and charm hunters, I don't see them being used enough for someone to powertrain with them seeing as any potion unused is considered a loss...

It's always nice to have a top player share information as useful as this! Great find JOfTheCross!

What reasons do I have to do that? Undeserved banning or deserved?

Buy all the available Rares, then alch them all! Put an end to the discontinued non-sense.

I was at 525M last month, probably around 600M these days.

I think it would not be in Jagex' best financial interests to keep F2Pers interested too much in the free game. It has nothing to do with the difficulty of getting a 99 over the P2P way, it's purely a financial question. An incentive is not the same thing as pressure to subscribe, you seem to mix those together. I'm gonna speculate here and tell you how I think Jagex sees F2P. - It's a game they offer for free to attract people into subscribing to the full game thus gaining them more money to invest in whatever projects they have. The more they offer for free (especially at higher levels) the more F2Pers will have an incentive to remain F2P and to reach their personnal goals. As for rewards to maxed out F2Pers, they invited the top 5 to visit their facility recently, talk about reward!

Very nice and only 6 lvls away from 2300 total, the last step before maxing out! very impressive!

1) You have a point, but don't forget that Jagex can control the pvp economy prices, thereby making skilling way more profitable than it is now. This also adds a new aspect of hunting the skillers ... 2) We aren't discussing if the implementation is realistic or not; I just want to explore what is necessary to make full drops possible. 3) I'm going to have burst your bubble there, because there's an easy way to still RWT there: Macro/Gold Farming accounts just become pures and on low hours they meet up in those worlds. If they get their target, they die intentionally and lose their superior equipment; if not, they fight normally and have an equally good chance to win (greater even, because they could switch to players who are better at pking). Also, if you can't just make a single word for Full Drop Dueling: too many people would want in. Also, if you can use protect item it's even easier: RWTers bring a single good item (AGS, Spirit shield, DFS, ...) and die intentionally with protect item until they get teamed with target where they don't use the pray. As long as they don't have food, they can't lose their item (if they did, others could use smite). 1) What would be the incentive for a skiller to go to a PVP with full drops if any money earned there is gonna get erased anyway? Skilling is either about getting money or getting XP, unless you make these worlds with permanent XP boost, you will only have pkers fighting pkers. 2) Okay, what is necessary is to have PVP worlds where gold isn't allowed and loot can be traded in for honour points. Honour points are accumulated throughout the month and an highscore is established for every month. the pkers at the top are those that got the most "friends" to die for them. This would be a great money sinkand rebalance the economy. 3) I said there would only be one world and you could get assigned a random opponent. If there are too many people, then great less chance of getting your target. Protect item would be useless because you would lose everything on you no matter what. BTW, points 2 and 3 are about 2 different implementations and not to be analyse as a whole.

I've thought of this as well. Let's see.... It costs tons of gold and time, much more than simply buying better fish off GE or playing pest control for two days, for which you have no advantage from 1-82, after which you suddenly get an extra 21 stats which is about 8 combat levels' worth and 25% special energy with no change to combat level, making the skill somewhat a combat skill but not really, contradicts with the summoning system, makes magic too dependant on herblore to have an edge..... Yeah, that's about it. To be honest I think Summoning shouldn't give combat levels, then at least herblore wouldn't have this problem as well, and the era of combat advantages unlocked with skill level but aren't part of the combat level calculation can begin smoothly. I agree that this is a big brain teaser! Please don't mention the possibility of removing lvls from summoning (only because of those annoying wild dogs in the karamja dongeon!). I could also argue that getting from 69 cooking to 70 gives you the possibility of getting a + 3 bonus to all offensive stats and defensive stats except magic from the recipe for disaster gloves. Anyway I think we both argued to the limits of both sides and we can only agree to disagree from now on. Nice debate to be honest, I usually end up debating with people who won't even consider the opinion of others and debates end up with both sides insulting each other...

@ Ravian...once again! What is the difference between skill combat bonus and equipment combat bonus? I mean if someone has put the time and effort to get the levels and complete the fight caves, they should have an advantage over someone that has chosen not to do it. This is currently how it works for all untradeable items. Remember that time is money - getting the necessary levels has an opportunity cost. You say that it's the player's choice to either get the proper items or face the consequence, why can't this be applied to herblore? Because of the astronomical cost and time it takes to get to level 90? If these potions, instead of adding to the skills, were to affect the equipment bonus for a short period, would this be acceptable? I have a feeling that the big issue is the huge gap for a majority of players to access these potions quickly.

That's what I'm talking about! Gj 2 more seconds gathering tears for guthix is always appreciated.

Seeing as those skills have requirements for the quest, this is not really a surprise.

I'm gonna wait for the reward before starting the quest. Yeah I'm a bad quester.

Well, I never said that no F2Per with 99 skills will ever subscribe. I just said I was less likely than someone that invested that much time in the half game will switch to the full game. My question is : why should Jagex reward these specific players? Of course it wouldn't stop people from subscribing, but it would give F2Pers a goal to reach...thus giving them less incentive to subscribe. It's purely an economial question.

So are food. If you're using sharks, and lost to someone by a mere margin only to be told later that he was using manta ray, you can't complain that it's unfair because he decided to invest a bit more, you didn't. For rings, it's just a matter of more effort, but you can't complain if you're losing more fights thanks to the ring slot disadvantage if you're not willing to invest more time/money for them. But the fact that the potions have level requirement to use means that IF Jagex organise some sort of tournament, high herblore becomes one of the new hidden requirement to stand a chance of winning, in addition to good food, super set, non-level based good equipment. Especially true for magic, and that's only because melee and ranged potion series have a buffer zone. You should also consider this: Could summoning have worked as how it is now, but does not add to your combat level? Meaning that you don't mind max combat level at 126, and people who invested time/money to train summoning having a combat advantage without displaying it in combat level. That last question is a toughie because for the most part, summoning familiars are useless in single way PVP, where I would assume combat level matters. The same argument you use for the rings can be applied with the exact same words to high level herblore. My point is if unlocking rings is an hidden factor and is accepted, then so should herblore. Using sharks over rocktails, manta rays or potatoes is a matter of choice. Anyone not using the best items available is essentially shooting himself in the foot. The same reasoning could be applied with extreme potions. My question is mostly: why is time/effort rewarded in some case and this time denied?

I still think the imbued rings are a comparable example because much like these new potions, they require time to acquire and they are hidden to your opponent. Of course these potions give a bigger edge to the one having them than the difference by the rings but it's the same concept. They might not be level dependant but they still require time to get.

I agree with everything you pointed out except maybe the skillscape part but let me explain why first. On a personnal basis, I have no problem with F2P getting the 99 capes if they are toned down in terms of stats. These are currently the 2 second best melee cape in the game if you have them trimmed. I wouldn't mind if a F2P skill cape add + 5 def and + 2 pray instead of the current +9 with +4 pray. On the business side of the argument (Jagex point of view that I can only guess at), giving high end-game rewards to free players only encourage the behavior to not suscribe to the full game. Anyone with enough XP to get a 99 in F2P will most likely never subscribe to members. Why would Jagex reward those who do not contribute financially to their game? I know you will point out that they contribute by "viewing" ads... It's been establish in this thread or the F2P skillcapes thread that the marginal contribution by F2P player is about 25 times less than an actual paying member. F2P should get updates, some are more a priority than others. Combat triangle and bank space are indeed things that should be on the table.

F2P should get updates...at exactly the same pace they have been getting over the last 5 years. I'm fine with that. The stop playing or start paying argument is often used towards F2Pers that feel their game is getting boring. It's mostly just an advice. The reason why there is an unnoficial top 250 F2P is because top F2Pers want to shine under the spotlight. I don't know who tells you that you are not players, it's pretty obvious F2Pers are players. F2P is not gonna go anytime soon, this has absolutely nothing to do with this argument. It is indeed very worth it to go P2P especially compared to F2P. I could use the same generalisation towards F2Pers regarding the fact that they don't understand how a business works. Give too much for free and your customers will not be inclined to pay. Give not enough and they won't be inclined to test the paying version. I think Jagex balances their updates pretty well. I indeed double posted, burn me on top of the highest mountain.

Some F2Pers like to dream of a better game, some of us P2Pers like to remind them it's already out there. If this thread didn't exist, the P2P trolls in these boards (like Dzihouchan) would have to take their trolling elsewhere. I see this thread as a kid's wish list for christmas. It's actually one of my favorite thread along with the ban and mute sticky.

Still, it's true that you don't pay. I'm P2P and I'm still bombarded by advertisments everytime I go to the RS homepage. As for the no pay, no play comments about "who cares", Well Jagex cares. If everyone had access to the full game without paying, they would sure go bankrupt very quickly.

I studied for my degree while fishing monks and lately rocktails, woodcutting yews and eucs, slaying dark beasts, smithing bolts and arrow tips and cooking when I only had some reading to do. I usually play with a minimised window while I check some movies or tv shows. I rarely play this game with 100% attention on the screen.

@ Ravian Following your logic, the same should apply to the imbued rings obtained with Mobilising Armies. The higher bonus they give are hidden like potions. How do you adress this?

So then what is ( should be) the correct combat formula? combat skills? Or a combination of combat skills and the items unlocked by quests and non combat skills? I never mentionned void, but specifically pointed to recipe for disaster gloves. These requires non combat skills to access, should these non combat skills add to your combat level when you have unlock the item after completing the quest? By the way, the post before mine didn't answer my question towards cooking. Does unlocking the best imbued rings from Mobilizing Armies gives combat levels as it gives you access to the highest bonus rings in the game. Something that cannot be seen by looking at your adversary visually or via his/her combat level.

It should only be determined by your combat levels? What about items? Untradeable quest items? Should the best untradeable items give you combat levels? Herblore doesn't make you better in combat unless you have access to extreme potions. Cooking doesn't make you better in combat unless you have the requirements for the recipe for disaster gloves... should cooking add to your combat level? This is the same problem. How do you treat those? You seem to be the wisest person around here, enlighten us!

Doesn't that statement defeat your whole argumentation? Having the proper herblore level permits you to use the extreme potions, that's how the game worked for a day and IMO should have stayed that way.