langer

@ Sonic, Your solution with magic debalances F2P, then you propose another solution to rebalance it with ranged, leaving melee unbalanced with ranged and magic. I don't see Jagex doing this. They'll either balance the triangle or leave it the way it is. They could also tweak the way spells work in both F2P and P2P so that hits are level dependant.

That's pretty short sighted... That's like saying everytime a F2Per logs on, Jagex loses money. We both know it's a false statement. Making money and getting revenues are two different things. Read up on business management, it wouldn't hurt one bit.

Nice guide for those who don't have access to the Ogre Enclave. You might add that having a beast of burden makes you stay longer and bank more bones and hides per trip.

lag double point sorry

Rebalancing the triangle and overpowering magic are two completely separate possibilities. In this thread I've seen both suggested even though some people argued that giving F2Pers surge spell is "balancing" the triangle... Waves spells or better armor would probably make the F2P combat triangle a little more balanced. I thik if Jagex were to add new things for magic users in F2P, it would be equipment with about 40 magic requirement to raise magic accuracy. Their strategy lately for F2P has been to keep the game at mid level and not give too much end game skill requirements or equipments. Sugestions of surge spells in F2P can be added to the kids wishlist.

Jagex had a good reason for not giving f2p skillcapes, so they would make money. Also they want to discourage a massive amount of grinding(much more then p2p). The skill capes incentive doesn't generate masses amount of revenue. The incentives are, new skills, new training methods, an far more expansive world, new armor, and new weapons, that's why more than half of the people that bought membership before the capes, got it in the first place. They would make money with or without the capes. They made money before the release, and they would if they got rid of them now. Jagex doesn't care how much time you spend playing the game, just as long as you don't die and they lose their $5-7, or whatever the price is. They want you to play, and they want you to pay. Jagex is a corporation, not a charity who is in the business of healthy gaming. Great analysis, though you seem to not take into account what was said by some posters. The point being made by poster such as Jr and I is that giving high end rewards in F2P encourages F2Pers to stick to the free game rather than encouraging them to get membership. Skill capes are not and will never be the biggest incentive to get membership but it is one and all incentives add up.

As mentionned countless times, here are my studying skills: - fishing monks, sharks or rocktails (sharks are obsolete though now with rocktails) - Cutting yews, ivys, magics or eucalyptus (ivy on a secluded place is better for xp) - smithing bolts, arrowheads, knives or darts (less loss and more AFK potential) - smelting gold, silver, iron or cannon balls - fletching unstrung bows

You guys are forgetting how cooking works, take sharks for example, you can cook them at 80 and only stop burning them at 94 WITH cooking gloves... Following your logic, the true cooking level should be what...80 or 94? I think it's a good move by Jagex and if anyone tell me I say this because I have the mid level to benefit from this, you can bet that ess prices and rune prices will balance to reach a point where RC will be as profitable as it was prior to the update. RC is not faster today than it was yesterday and once prices stabilize, it will be as profitable as it was.

Has been tested with Laws, and you do not get multiple laws.. So anything higher than 100 doesn't count :) Somewhat disappointed by that... It's a good update for everyone not 91 RC then, oh wait that's about 95% of RSers...

Nice experiment, I'll have a go at it later today.

Can anyone with 95+ RC test with a couple of loads of astrals to see if you can get more than 2 per essence? Or chaos for that matter...

pretty interested in knowing if you can get more than 2 nats per essence at 92+ RC... Even though I won't get 92+ Rc in another 2-3 years...

Skillers with 1000 total levels, players who actually train their skills - all their skills. Crippled accounts are a choice. Lvl 3 skillers are not "skillers", they are powernoobs.

Impressive! I always though you became a true high level player once you reach 70+ in all skills. Any plans on all skills 75+ ?

Congrats and what a skill to finish with! What are you planning next?

Very nice Lure and very nice Str XP! Mind telling us your total XP? Btw I use the same controlled + Str spec as you!

That quote from Jr probably explains why skill capes are not F2P. It is a business decision and has nothing to do with F2P not deserving them from an effort point of view, they don't deserve them from a financial point of view.

@ swampjedi This thread is born from an argument on another topic between the OP and Quel.

Experience counts for everything. Its not a case of dissing anyone its just pointing out fact that some players aren't the experts they claim to be, particularly if their skill sets are low. I'm 59 summon and I've read the guides but that doesn't put me in a position to be the fountain of knowledge of it against someone of a much higher level. Put me next to someone like that to answer someone's question, I'll just say 'ask them, not me'. Again, experience counts for everything. I could read up on all the theory in the world but that doesn't mean I'm right, particularly when you get to subjectivity of a skill. In fact your point about subjectivity is, on the contrary, valid. Everyone analyses what is best for them , particularly at higher levels. You can't get that from reading guides, its your own gaming experience. The guides aren't always right and someone who talks a good game having no experience of the skill for themselves has no idea of what might work best. Your waterfiends example shows that the lvl 130 might have done whats best for them and it could well work for those they are talking to. I'm pretty sure a lvl 130 would also be reading any guides for themselves at some point as we all do. I'd sooner trust a 130 on the issue instead of the level 3. In fact, only recently a lvl 120 something who I met at Barrows gave me some advice based on his own experience. I tried it and it worked. I couldn't get that from a level 3 skiller. Experience counts for something, not everything. Analysed experience counts for everything. Someone with lvl 99 summon has a lot of experience. The only thing we can agree on is that player has spent lots of time getting XP in that skill. That information gives us no clue to how that person trained that skill, for all we know, that player could have used lamps, penguins and tears to get a high level. Thing is I know a lot of high level players with high summon that only know how to train the skill and not use it. They have no idea that skilling with a fruit bat gives 25K profit per hour or that a granite lobster will improve your xp rates and gold stack significantly. It's normal to assume a high level player has more knowledge than a low level player because there are more chance to get a knowlegeable player from a sample of high level players than a sample of low level players. That argument is also biased, because the low lvl skiller giving advices based on a guide he read in my example, is acting like a proxy to the high level experienced player that wrote the guide. My main point is that I would rather trust a player that crunched the numbers (guide writer) or the player that cites them (any other player that read and analysed the guide) over a player that has a feel of the game (lots of experience, but no supporting datas to back up any claim).

Ads posted on websites get money on a 'per-click' basis. So imagine how many accidental clicks the ads above the Runescape window gets; and if each click were on dollar-a-click setting, I'm going to assume it's clicked nearly 500-600 times through the course of the day. That's $500-600 a day. That would be minimal money for Jagex then... As for achievement cape, I agree they work as hard if not harder, but I don't agree that they "deserve" them.

That's the problem with statistics... it gives you a general indication. You might find occurences to be false, but the general trend will be somewhat accurate. Wel all have stereotypes and it is something hard to steer away from those, but dissing on someone's background to counter their arguments just means that the argument is lost and the disser has no more valid points. @ erewhon and jrhairychest Concerning the point of knowledge vs experience. I would argue that knowledge is better than un-analysed experience but is worst than the combination of the two. Un-analysed experience from my point of view are often similar to player feelings or includes the fun factor (fun is way too subjective to count as a valid argument). Also note that I have tried every skills extensively and know which skills are fun for me and don't need someone else view of fun to be impose on me. About guides... if every guide suggest to bring a crush weapon to waterfiends and some lvl 130 tells you "I kill them with whip just fine, bring a whip", while a lvl 3 skillers says "every guide suggest to bring a crush weapon as it speed up kills by X factor", who would you trust?

Being compared to a toy that gives pleasure to women is a compliment in my opinion. You should take pride in that, or fill up your ignore list.

What kind of player wears a P2P item while pking in F2P??? Can you explain how it makes assisting easier? Why would a P2Per want added defence bonus in F2P except for F2P PVP? No sane P2Per will log in a F2P world to get crappy xp rates... The benefits you are stating are mostly comestic... I've been wearing the same default clothing for the last 5 years... this is not a benefit for me as well as many players. ALl P2P items (if I'm not mistaken) behave in the same way. They give no bonus and are non-equipable once taken out.

Quel, relax a little. First, as this is a private message board, you have no inborn "right" to anything. The staff, if they wanted, could silence you because your name starts with Q. As for other posters who, like you and I, have no power whatsoever - they can gripe about people all they want (and risk being moderated). Realistically, though, there's a market of ideas out there. We as finite beings don't have time to rationally evaluate each "seller" of knowledge, so we take shortcuts. In RS, it is reasonable to equate higher levels / longer play time with being a better source of game advice. Is it always true? No! That just means it is an imperfect predictor. Interesting way to put that, nice analogy.

@ Sonic Being able to wear a skillcapes on F2P for a member could not be considered a benefit. You'll have to find more convincing arguments to persuade me that skillcapes being F2P will benefit members. One slight benefit I can see is that fishing lobster and tuna/swordies will become more profitable for members as prices of these raw fish reaching their cap, at least upon a fictionnal release. @ AxelRose You say that you have proven that skillcapes are a non-incentives to get members though you specifically wrote that sentence : That's exactly why it is an incentive, maybe not the main reason, but incentives do add up. I personnaly don't think Jagex wants to have their F2Pers work on an end game goal on F2P, they make their cash via P2P and that would contradict their business strategy.