langer

I don't understand how you can say that the rune full helmet is "superior" to the D med.... you should check the stats. The D med gives better defence to both melee and ranged. 70K is merely 10K higher than alching price... not much added value there. The D med's low price is not because of how rare it is, its because there are much better alternatives to it. If the D med was the best f2p could buy, the price would skyrocket. Supply would not be able to keep up with demand. The 300k-600k figure is how much they'd be in the long run, partly because people would know that after 30 minutes of wear, they'd still have something. I'm not so sure it would stay that high in the long run... It's mostly a matter of opinion, but I wouldn't be surprised if it peaked at 600K upon release, then slowly decline to 300k over a year before dropping to alch price (or near it) after 2 years. This is speculation, anyone's opinion on the matter is as good as mine, let's not turn this debate in price prediction though.

edit: double post it seems... can a mod delete this?

I agree that gameplay is not gonna change "much" but you'll get more complaints about the combat triangle. As for the price, it's pretty much a prediction on your part, but I see logic in it and can't really debate that.

I don't understand how you can say that the rune full helmet is "superior" to the D med.... you should check the stats. The D med gives better defence to both melee and ranged. 70K is merely 10K higher than alching price... not much added value there.

@ Sees_all : Just to let you know that d-meds are in fact a lot more rare than a rune med drop. You can't know because you haven't played P2P so I'm just gonna give you some ratio that were common knowledge a couple years ago among members regarding d-med drops from fire giants. It was rumored that you could expect a ratio of 1 : 8000 from them at the time (and at that time they were around 3M). The biggest provider was the KBD and the ratio was somewhat more reasonnable (I've seen drop logs indicating ratio of 1 : 250), but at them time, you needed a team because meleeing the KBD with drag b-axe or D-long is a pain in the.... and the safest way to kill it was with knives and a high ranging lvl. That was my "for your information" and "retro" moment. Also... I think your price bumps are somewhat accurate, but sadly temporary... Over time, the d-med would reach the same price it is now and people would start saying how obsolete it is again. @ Umoria : You can't say that adding more defence to melee in F2P is not gonna change the gameplay.

@ Jr Yes I agree with the OP that the d-med is very obsolete and not a top item anymore. Some players may use it, but mainly this item is a tokken of the past. Does this make it a reason to hand it over to F2P? IMO, it doesn't, there are a ton of outdated useless stuff that we could give them on this basis... I wish my option of a trial boss and temporary drops only redeemable in P2P would have been more discussed, but F2Pers want a permanent solution, while I want more subscriptions and a bigger player base for P2P. From here on, it's mostly a matter of point of view. It's safe to say that I share your view on carreer F2Pers too.

Slayer has been mentionned a couple times already... Watching movies or videos while fishing of woodcutting is a pretty nice way to get money. Ranging blue dragons in the ogre enclave is pretty sweet too.

It's interesting to notice that 70% of tip.iters are above 1500 skill total.... or meaning that at least 70% of tip.iters are members. I'va had lots of arguments with F2Pers claiming there were at least more than twice the population of F2P compared to P2P... Keep in mind this survey is based on the goodwill of the tip.iters, meaning it could be way off. BTW... upper bracket with nearly 2200 total level. Hoping to get it before the next skill is released.

Yeah I know, I thought he/she might have been arguying that...

If you use stab.... then Long swords are definitely loads better than scimmis.... All other attacking modes, scimmy is better.

Mid levels members still use or wear for "show" their d-meds. Those who let them rot in their bank or alch them are usually high level players. So your statement is probably spot on for a majority of longtime members. Isn't ironic that what was once an item worth more than 3M is now a better item to alch than yew or magic longbows....

Agreed, anyway all arguments for or against have already been said either in this thread or Skillscape in F2P and Why Can't f2P have... Let's attack the matter at hand indeed. I like what you propose, not so much new content, but actually testing what is boss hunting and "advertising" P2P giving incentives to join. I wouldn't mind if they could get un-equipable and un-tradeable D meds in F2P only available via P2P...another incentive. It's unlikely that Jagex will do this though.

Indeed but this topic should also be treated with the bigger picture in mind. In theory, all P2P items go could to F2P for the simple reason that they work in a similar context --> P2P.

im 15 and have far more real life experience than you Well he said it on the internet so it must be true! i just realized it was posted a while ago, myb he grew up and finally quit runescape after 47 child hating years ? I think you just prove his theory... For the info, he's still playing and still probably wiser than your immense real life experience.

What I meant was they were being off-topic. Like, completely. This is a debate about whether KBD and Dragon Med is suitable for F2P, not whether F2P should get more content or not. (If you haven't noticed already, Erewhon's post earlier on was already deleted because of this.) And why didn't I mention Demonicsushi... No I didn't notice that, I rarely go back to previous posts except for quoting.... I agree erewhon might have been off-topic. His arguments may or may not be valid in this topic, but he should have made it more relevant to the topic. There have been lots of valid arguments on both sides in this topic, even though I think it won't happen, I would stand to gain more than the common player with an update like this seeing as I have 2,5k d meds sitting in my bank waiting for a rise in price or to simply be alched.

Please contribute to the thread instead of trolling... @Sonic: this is trolling. No, the topic itself is trolling... asking for more when uve been offered an unimaginable amount? The topic is far from trolling. It has great debate material. Debating the value of some arguments is what this is all about. Jagex have been known to update and give additionnal stuff to F2P from time to time. It's realistic to expect, comment and predict what the next update will be.

Please contribute to the thread instead of trolling... @Sonic: this is trolling.

It should be said once again that the KBD is not outdated. Prior to the release of draconic visage, that argument would have been accurate, nowadays you often have to fight for a lootshare world when going against him. D meds being outdated is accurate though. Releasing better melee armpor in F2P is pretty short-sighted given the whole triangle argument. @ Sees_all : Choose your battles wisely, that argument goes against your stand on balancing the F2P triangle (which I agree with you). P.S. you lost a lot of credibility when you went off-topic and accused all P2Pers of whinning on some aspects of the game. Gaming is all about choice and being restricted by those choices. Pures choose to ignore def, they can't really complain about that. If summoning is too expensive for a player, he can't really complain if boss hunting is too hard. You can guess what I would say about F2Pers... @ Sonic : You should look up what trolling means because it does not mean "arguying against"... No, they don't want to give them to F2P because they don't want to use them, they want to give them to F2P because they want to use them. The idea, as difficult as it may be to grasp, is that making the KBD F2P will wildly increase the price of the dragon med helm, and other items surrounding it, making it more worthwhile to be P2P. Here's a perfect example: Adamant arrows. If the highest arrow F2Pers were allowed to use were mithril arrows, adamant arrows would be worth squat. There would be no reason to smith/fletch them, absolutely no demand. But since F2P is allowed to use adamant arrows, there is a huge demand, and a huge amount of profit available to P2Pers. What do you mean by "huge amount of profit"? Last I checked, making arrows resulted as a loss.... EDIT: making them indeed results in a loss... around 10-15 gps per arrow... only good for xp.

edit: double post put back into previous post

You say "claim" as if there's no basis for it, which is ridiculous. Fine, but you're getting away from the OP. The reason Hagge created this thread was to make a better argument for putting outdated boss monsters on F2P. If the only thing people say is "F2P doesn't pay so no", they're not being constructive. Lets all stop beating that dead horse, get back on topic. OTHER than the fact that F2P is free, why would releasing older, dated content to the free version be a bad thing? There is a basis for calling F2P not a demo as much as there is a basis for calling it a demo because of the purpose it serves. Notice I say "granted" meaning I don'T buy that whole argument that because Mod MMG calls it a non-demo, it should not ever be questionned and debated. I'm getting away from the OP because everything that encourages giving more to F2P should be treated and analyzed with the business strategy in place. I might be beating a dead horse but it's pretty relevant to this case. To answer your question, releasing old and dated content to F2P is not a bad thing, except if it is high level content because then it gives a reason for F2Pers to "stick around" and not make the jump to P2P (which is, like it or not, the aim of Jagex regardless of how anyone feels). As for the sake of debating the point regardless of real life economics, I see a couple flaws to releasing the KBD mainly becease the main source of income from that monster resides in hides and bones (and obviously draconic visages). Making the KBB an F2P boss without these drops, you get a pretty tough monster to beat with current F2P weapons for bad loots. The main effect would be for d meds to rise in price upon release (something that would benefit me as I bought 2,5k d meds at alch price over the last year...). Making d bones available in F2P for use and only available through the KBD would cause an enourmous rise in price of d bones and would benefit only extremely high lvls F2P players that only want to max out prayer without a second thought to the cost. Making hides available to F2P would create the same probable consequence to bones with F2P crafters actively buying these hides to raise their crafting lvls. A solution would be to make the KBD in F2P be a King Green Dragon. Obviously, something like that would debalance the game. The only real solution would be to release the KBD in F2P that drops dragon meds and larger coins drop without hides or bones. To your first sentence, it's very easy to generalize an argument like this, but it's pretty hypocritical coming from someone that has to edit his posts because of immature bad language. To your 2nd sentence, I know why they removed them and I'm still questionning that removal. I think they are not using F2P in the best way they could.

Yes I remember gnomecopters being a passive incentive to join members, much like watching a movie trailers or some youtube video of P2P content... What I'm "proposing" is an active experience. It's not the same thing and that would make the F2P feels more like a demo. Now lots of F2Pers claim F2P is a game on its own, granted, it's a complete game without major updates... you get what you pay for. @ Sees_All All your friends who are members are contributing to the game. You may have helped Jagex in gaining new members, but in the end, your friends are paying for membership, not you. The business model that Jagex employs with free-to-play would not work very well if paying costumers were not there to support it. Without paying costumers, we would still be playing classic with the old set of skills.... no thank you. My assumption on that matter from a business point of view is that Jagex gets a loss from F2P and those expenses are put under marketing costs for the main game (where they actually get paid and make a very interesting profit from).

One week would be good but any more would Ruin p2p... I would go as far as saying giving them a whole special month of members features to test out with every week something different (except skills obviously as it would screw up their highscores). That would be a very interesting marketing push.

If Jagex wants F2P to stick around and not contribute to the financing of updates, they will indeed release high level content to F2P. If Jagex wants F2pers to get a taste of P2P and make a couple of them convert to members, they will release an event for a week with a boss monster that drops untradeable in F2P loot. Talk about an incentive to join! You get stuck with a draconic visage and the only way to benefit from that drop is to get a measly one month of membership. I sometimes wonder what kind of marketing team Jagex has...

Why does it take so long? Because your perspectives are skewed...

It's been a while since I last posted but I wanted to reply to this seeing as you are one of the most reasonable F2Pers on this board, meaning you acknowledge what's necesseary and what's icing on the cake. First to respond to the statement I wrote last december, you have to get to know me... I'm very anti-social in this game and view chatting while playing as an annoyance most of the time. I regularly erase people on my friendlist solely based on their ability to annoy me (or fail to entertain me). Seeing as most of the players on my friendlist were met while playing members, you can understand I rarely have the opportunity to speak to F2Pers. So this was not something of a vendetta I had against F2Pers, but since I don't relate with them a lot since we are playing two different games, I find no interest in having F2P friends to talk to. As you can see, I'm also very brutal on potential P2P friends. I sincerely have nothing against F2Pers.... I just wish they were P2Pers in the end, so we could all enjoy the same game. It's really worth the 5ish$ and I wish all the players of this thread had the opportunity to at least try it.