Urza285

Oh no! Some kid that I never met and never will meet (and who I don't even know exists) can do something that took me 7 years to do in 1 year only! Yeah really... I agree. What an underhanded response to this update. I'll give you that it's another SoF update, but there are very few kids in the world that have parents rich enough to dole out $200 and THEN knowingly let their kids use it on something stupid as SoF spins. To add to that if you run into that kid let me know... I'll personally congratulate you for being the one unique person who's ran into the "rich snobby SoF kid"... Maybe you'll get a badge, too, depending on my mood.

It's not like you can choose a skill like the lamps anyways. They're all random which is slightly disappointing because I was hoping to get one on my dailies for dung... The mad may necklace was particularly good because it allowed me to dung with it. At the last like 8% I used it on my largest floor and it doubled everything when it was supposed to only give out another 35k.

Thanks jeremy. So dung update: I just reset with 5103k to 114 dungeoneering. My dungeoneering xp tracker shows that after doing all my floors (and with all the random event/SoF lamps included) I pulled out 3.2m xp. I'm probably safe to assume that 3m xp could be the benchmark for xp obtained from all of my larges. Also I got the weekend off at the moment so I am thinking if I try plugging away at dung during the rest of my work week and hit it hard on the weekend I could have 114 by monday night before work. But oyu know how I am with that... Chances are I wont :P.

When people start generalizing things with a pessimistic outlook...

Found this on runescape.wikia. Islander outfit:

If you look at the "rate" it takes to get one then yeah sure you could look at it statistically as buying xp, but its not because you aren't guaranteed that experience. I would much prefer these necklaces over lamps though because it offers versatility.

Completed the Mime vs The People court case. 5 left. Sawmill Man vs The People is next in 14 days. After these five I might start working on chompy hats.

Was looking at runescape.wikia and found that the golden wreath from the Gielenor Games is the first hat to offer negative weight reduction by -1.7 kg.

Well I finally got the saggitarian arrows bound. I was doing runs with friends and a couple randoms. One was a pmod and after a few runs I was finally happy to see that we got a saggitaire to drop them, but the pmod stole them and left. Afterwards my friend told me a story about how she hacked him and used him for things... Not surprising really because there are a few real dirty mods out there. I ended up going with a few others who had good hearts and after one run we got the arrows, went again to cap off the bind and go another drop the next run. Glad to see it didn't take much to get the drop again and cap the ammo bind after that [female dog] ran off with the arrows that were so obviously being hunted for me. Just need to get back to dunging, do my C1's and my last warp fro the reset.

If that were the case jagex would have been pulled in every conceivable angle and direction without making much effort to really truly develope the game they created. We aren't dealing with just a business, but a business that is the owner of a piece of artwork created and still being created for over ten years. What the customers expect doesn't matter nearly as much as the creators views and expectations are for the game because they are taking what they have thought up and put it into a semi tangible piece of work. You never wonder why new games made by jagex aren't a succes? (Compare that to diablo 3). As I said: for the product itself the consumers don't really bother: they already bought and keep resubscribing anyways, until they get bored. However for a future (new) product the image of a company & the quality in the past is very important. So unless jagex just plans to go bankrupt after runescape they should make sure to get a good amount of customers who are happy with the direction jagex goes. If thats the case all I see is an issue with coping with change where a large change is introduced and people who are used to seeing the same routine... Tuesday updates, BTS, teasers, holiday events, etc.... Until things take a seemingly dirastic turn with the introduction of micro transactions. Players are going through the exact same thing with the combat beta. They feel they have to conform to the combat update coming while they actually do not. The same can be seen with these microtransactions as players might feel they must pay money outside of their membership to enjoy the game. While they do not actually have to do so to enjoy the game, but if they feel compelled because that's what stands between them and these pieces of content they may be clamering to have in their possession.

Stalker stalking... Stalker being a stalker...

If that were the case jagex would have been pulled in every conceivable angle and direction without making much effort to really truly develope the game they created. We aren't dealing with just a business, but a business that is the owner of a piece of artwork created and still being created for over ten years. What the customers expect doesn't matter nearly as much as the creators views and expectations are for the game because they are taking what they have thought up and put it into a semi tangible piece of work.

It's a completely false dichotomy. Firstly, under the old model, Jagex had two sources of revenue(at least); membership and advertising. Secondly, the Gowers, simply on the basis of the old model, managed to take what was essentially a throw-away hobby and turn it into a multi-millionaire enterprise, one of the most popular and longest running MMORPGS of all time. On this model, the Gowers were able to make hundreds of millions of pounds, for themselves alone. And we are to believe that this wasn't enough? I am sorry Jagex aren't billionaires. They were able to run on that model of only subscription and ad revenue for over 10 years, so it was certainly a sustainable model. That was when membership cost 5$, and they raised about 5 million dollars a month. Since then, they have raised membership prices(I have no problem with this) and started the micro transactions. Jagex hardly needed another major source of revenue, and they certainly would not be out of business, or anywhere near there if they got rid of the recent string of stuff. It's simply a false dichotomy:give Jagex more money or the game goes under. Not true at all. You have no budget numbers or anything making your argument moot. You and everyone else knows that's a business isn't just created to make and sell a product, have a flatline growth or make no moves to expand and broaden its horizons. It was clearly obvious he was trying to simplify the explanation of how a business secures financial means to grow without cutting itself financially thin, stagnating and then going under. Business grow like trees where the bigger they get the more money it takes to run them. You can't honestly expect jagex as a business to keep running and grow from its previous revenue. If you considered the amount of people who felt jagex always rushed updates, made poor updates or oversimplified updates... Think about what investors might be able to do to remedy these plaguing issues we constantly face. Jagex just didn't roll belly up when investors came knocking... They had to open the door because they had something to offer to their studios. I do not believe that jagex let them in purely for the money because the people that work their ENJOY their jobs and the game they play. On the flip side the investors didn't come just to help bring a game to ruin. I am sure they are aware how the community feels about RWT and don't want to crash their investments and lose money.

Honestly very well put, simple and catches the exchange of service experience that I truly believe jagex is trying show its players. While membership might have been the only thing people thought to pay out for now there is variation. Assuming the above post fully expressed how jagex viewed Solomon and SoF... I suppose jagex could have made an effort to publicly express what these things mean for the business. Maybe they decided against that because they thought it was redundant? I mean it's not like a big business to humble themselves by saying "look what we brought to the game. If you really like something buy it. If you do you'll further help support the game you love and help it grow." Ideally, and looking back I think Jagex should have taken a more transparent approach such as that versus their usual hyped up for the fans one.

Honestly very well put, simple and catches the exchange of service experience that I truly believe jagex is trying show its players. While membership might have been the only thing people thought to pay out for now there is variation. Assuming the above post full mapped how jagex viewed Solomon and SoF... I suppose jagex could have made an effort to publicly express what these things mean for the business. Maybe they decided against that because they thought it was redundant? I mean it's not like a big business to humble themselves by saying look what we br

The problem is that this allows you (And like-minded players) to ignore completely valid complaints as 'whining'. The whining is there, but some players have a good reason to complain. Jagex isn't perfect, but lately they've been giving their detractors a lot of ammunition, like MMG's Squeal post a couple of months ago. Right now I think it's best for me to explain myself to not come off as heartless to the matter. I try not to look at things from a near wholey negative or positive way. Likewise I would like I say I believe there is discussion value in everything (albeit scarce or redundant at times). That doesn't mean it's worth much of anyone's time especially if it is such a poorly executed or minute thought on a heavy hearted matter. I try to keep a look at all arguments that things are not all black and white, but a shade of gray. Sure I do agree that jagex is doing something not necessarily beneficial to the games community. But when it comes to making money it's a necessary evil to spend time and effort doing so for ones survival down the road instead of floundering around and playing around all the time. In jagex case this would be doing everything in absolution for the gaming communities sake versus doing something less enjoyable and not exactly to the spirit of the game, but for the sake of making money... Which is the inclusion of micro transactions to boost the companies revenue. This reminds me of the parable of the Ant and the Grasshopper. Whoever mentioned about jagex doing what was necessary to not go under might understand where I was going with this parable.

And assuming jagex held its own to the community with great updates your argument would fall flat on its face. Of course so many players feel jagex updates have been substandard and that's mostly because most people over criticize them and hold them to a higher than achievable standard anyways. Jagex and IVP owns the rights to decide how jagex will function. Players do not have those rights because jagex is not a "mom and pop shop" where customers concerns are held to the highest concern. When I feel RWT content has become a higher priority over members content then maybe you and I will see eye to eye, but until then I feel there is no legitimate concern. Next yes we are in a discussion, but, sorry a lot being said is whining.

But it matters to them because they're emotionally invested to the game while still paying to play. And just because they're emotionally invested doesn't mean their knee-jerk reactions should automatically be ignored. Being a customer does grant a "higher status" than not, which fosters the sense of entitlement. You get so upset that people are over-demanding, yet look through RS history to only see why. And yet because of that over-demanding nature, the game has seen some of the best tweaks and content releases because of it. You're whining about whining, with no regards to what that ends up producing. Many people feel the practices currently employed are unethical. And again, customer service by-and-large consists of monitoring your customer feedback and adjusting/compensating/whatever where possible. But you don't have to take it upon yourself to be the community's personal boundary draw..er. That's not your job, and you're not achieving the goals you're setting out to. You end up making the problem worse. While I can sympathize with the emotional investments players make because I myself a emotionally invested. I will freely admit that seeing some nice content such as the amazing assassin gear costing a whopping $40 (including the less desirable smoke bomb) does erk me. But I will recognize jagex is a company that is expanding where it is possible. I recognize that all their efforts aren't just in runescape, but also in their game studios for other games as well as in the researching means to make more money. Micro transactions are one of those means and I accept it. At one point I played runescape to do everything, be everywhere and get everything, but I recognize that it's not feasible without wasting way too much time so the point is players should evaluate their situation and go from there. Who is to judge what jagex does is unethical? Mind you let's keep this purely about micro transactions and not talk about SoF because I agree that SoF is gambling. The players aren't some government agency coming down on jagex for their bad behavior. As far as I'm concerned the players are more like people cryiv foul because they see something they want and cat have without either forking over time to get a level or the cash required. Another thing... Please don't discuss monitoring customer feedback as far as runescape goes. These forums and the RSOF themselves are riddled with pathetic cries from players who are over critical and who short change jagex in their credit. Getting a reasonable customer feedback is a daunting effort when it comes to Solomon and SoF whiners because they either hate it because it takes money to get anything decent or they feel entitled to do something that doesn't involve real world money to get it.

@ Kimberley: I agree that both sides play a hand in these things, but honestly there has to be a dividing line between business and game play. We have players complaining about the use of common business tactics that should not matter to them. What I stated previously about jagex being a company that made players feel entitled to things plays in with this because now so many players feel that because they pay for a service that have some entitlement and say as far as ownership of the business goes. This is not the case and it needs to be addressed, boundaries set in place and players need to understand that jagex business practices other than customer service are offhands. When their business practices become unethical that's when the customer has a legitimate case against jagex or it's investors. Ill state it again... This whole argument stems from the players feeling of entitlement and they need to get over it. Opinions about their business practices are fine, but what I've been seeing is straight up whining and not just opinions.

Well I havent broke my csb yet for the arrows, but when I get time to get on and run some arrow hunts I'll be doing that! Kind of sad in way that I have two brand new toys and can't get on to play with them... Oh te joy it'll be hitting the next couple levels. I'm sure the enjoyment will die around 115...

People are only angry at the investors because they feel that through micro transactions their "content" that always flowed freely is now being sold in these micro transactions. Runescape has always been a game where members were told in some form or fasion that they were entitled to pretty much everything under the sun as far as runescape goes, but no actual boundaries were set other than in game rules. Many of the MMOs out there have it to where cosmetics are they only pieces on the RWT menu. In my opinion jagex is following the straight and narrow along with these other MMOs by only making cosmetics part of their own RWT menu. Should jagex make it to where large game content such as quests, areas, skills, large chunks of xp become buyable then there is an issue where the membership we pay for starts to actually lose its value. because I am a paying member and expect to see content for my payments I will only have an issue if both quality and quanity of actual membership content begins lacking should they go said route. Somewhere, in an old newpost possibly on the forums, a jmod made a very compelling coment about cosmetic items that were being suggested that would never make it into the game because of where the game was set and how the lore was playing out. I believe this comment was made prior to even the loyalty rewards... Now look what we have... We have katanas, flaming skulls, skin dyes, colonial outfits, Aztec outfits, etc. The actual usage and play cosmetics in MMOs wasn't meant to mean anything to the game short of making players look unique, different, cool, etc. My point is that cosmetics are here for nothing else, but for cosmetic reasons and I feel that just as other MMOs do so Jagex has, in a gamers moral sense, the right to sell cosmetics because they do not bear any distinct unfair advantage.

Out of the many theories behind this move, this is what stands out the best to me (And I'msure if you thought through this a little more, you'd see where I'm coming from.): Censoring a word doesn't remove the context. They're used to limit the damage until a moderator can handle the situation. In this case, it's limiting the negative press IVP gets - which honestly makes sense for a business, right? Completely fair move and the best they can do in the current situation. But to address your theory...it doesn't really "stop" whining. After all, how exactly does and ...differ? The whining still exists. It exists elsewhere, on fansites, other social media, news articles, etc. And hat knowledge is not erased. Hell, they even encourage fansites to thrive (up to a point.) They know that those things are good for business, and to erase that knowledge would take steps where the cons outweigh the pros. (for now) But it will help them "clean house" on their official forums, which more users see per day than most of the big name fansites do. So will whining stop? Lol no. That's a silly assumption. But it will help them get a little more of a clean image. Even if whiners are ridiculed, it creates a hostile environment when you have e-crusaders attacking those who complain in some misguided sense of righteousness that inevitably leads to flaming and a degraded sense of community. *cough* That was my whole point. I honestly don't expect to see whining to cease or to draw out some crusade... Maybe my words seem to convey that. But I feel that someone, preferably fan site owners and jagex themselves take a stand to verbally and expressedly staunch the negativity towards investors and play a part in cleaning up or containing the mess all these people are making. At the very least these people are ruining the community and experience. Even if they declared naysaying about investors as rants and promptly moved topics I would be fine with that. For those who are against IVP there is a common rule families tell ther kids when they feel entitled to having a degree of authority in their families house. Tht saying is "if you don't like the rules you can move out." The same should be applied to runescape, jagex and it's members wether they are paying or not. If you do not like te service you ca stop paying and move on. This is how many services are... You are given terms of service, or at the very least a basic knowledge of them and if you don't agree to them you have the option to back out. Runescape doesn't force you to keep paying, but your desire to play the game does. You as a paying member are not entitled to pull any strings on the jagex marionette except the option to pay. When you pay you are given membership benefits - a paid for service. Do not assume that because you pay the membership fee that you are entitled anything other than maybe customer service, but F2P has that as well, and loads of more content. Jagex may point out the fact that because you are a paying member they have an exclusive ear out for your concerns, but that is primarily for its game content and services. IPV is neither as it is part of the purely business side of things. People who invest in companies do so for monetary gain while people who pay out for membership do so for entainment.

Because whining gets you no where in life. It's a lesson taught later in life, but jagex and it's investors are making attempts to curtail the whining. There are things worth fighting for in life and a companies personal investments shouldn't be on the gamers main discussion as far as fighting for what's right for the game.

Oh I meant something with a day/week long cool down timer. Maybe with an hour of actual use.

Curve ball... What if its an aura? We know how auras work and were stated to not be exclusive to the loyalty program... Maybe these four will be as epic as they say, but on an extended timer for lets say a day/week?