My issues with Christianity.

[StrOwez]

 

 

 

I know there is a thread about the bible, however I do think this deserves its own topic.

 

 

 

 

 

Some personal information;

 

 

 

My mother became a born again Christian 4 years ago, which totally changed her, but she seems happy enough so IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m not worried about that. However when she and people alike try to force their religion on me I get very annoyed. And I just canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t grasp how they believe in The Bible and base their whole lives around it.

 

 

 

Now I went to a Christian school, got an A in my religious studies (marks gospel, and issue paper) So I know the bible, I also get forced to go to church every Sunday. Anyway I will proceed with the things I canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t understand and the things I donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t understand I usually donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t believe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(1) The issue of free will:

 

 

 

When God made man, he gave him free will so that man would chose whether to follow God or reject him.

 

 

 

However this is where it fails, it says free will for every manÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ But thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s not true, since not everyone has free will on this earth:

 

 

 

A simple example of a baby being born with aids, and then dying 2 weeks later, where is his free will?

 

 

 

I can accept that his parents had free will to have sex, but why should his free will be taken away from him? He suffers from their free will?

 

 

 

(2) So therefore the child isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t unique?

 

 

The Bible tells us about each person being unique to God and that God knows the plans for our lives even before we are born. (And if you tell me he doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t then your limiting God)

 

 

 

(3) So God knew the plan for my life before I was born, fine so he knew I was going to go to hell -- then why did he make me? DoesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t seem to be the God of love now?

 

 

(4) The whole basis of a God making a human is bizarre, he makes us for what: Entertainment, company, friendship??? And the guys that donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t want to be his friend he condemns to hell??

 

 

(5)Then he sends his son, who is a reincarnation of him.. To die for our sins? Great so now he makes this creation, and he fell in love with it so much that he dies for it (he didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¹Ãât even have to)ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ

 

 

 

Ehm, HereÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s me thinking God is all mighty, why would he die for us the people he created? To put it into laymen terms itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s like you dying for your Runescape account.

 

 

 

(6) Then of course, when we die and if we donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t accept Jesus as our saviour we get sent down to hell for eternal torture, well thanks GOD I didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t ask you to make meÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ now you going to put me to hell. Thanks! Oh and also a thanks from my friends in the rainforest, who never even heard of you.

 

 

 

Ah well always look at the bright side; at least IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ll have some interesting people there.

[Tbfgraphx14]

Yes I agree, I know how you feel. I am made to go to confirmation class every sunday All of your points seem well, and especially the Jesus dieing for us one. I never understood that how one person giving up their live for all mankind is kind of odd. I would give up my life if everyone else in the world could live :-k

 

 

 

Nonetheless I think we should respect each other's beliefs and get on with our lives :-$ Unless they are seriously affecting us.

[llamster]

I sometimes wonder what God's purpose is, too. I guess that He just does whatever He wants.

 

 

 

I have mixed feelings as to whether we actually possess free will or if we are just puppets being controlled by God.

 

 

 

A lot of things that He does seems to contradict what the Bible says about Him. However, almost all bad things that happen do have some sort of positive effect, so I guess that God's intention is always good.

[Bubsa]

Should we go ahead and make a "Christianity's issues with you" thread?

 

Didn't think so.

[Nom]

Should we go ahead and make a "Christianity's issues with you" thread?

 

Didn't think so.

 

 

 

Really. What's the point of making this? You say that you take issue with Christians pressing their beliefs on you -- isn't that a rather hypocritical statement if you turn around and make a thread bashing Christianity?

 

 

 

And you do realize that Christianity encompasses a wide range of religions? It's including all protestant religions as well. So you're stereotyping a lot of people when you accuse Christians of forcing beliefs upon others. When as a matter of fact most don't. Catholics are mostly tolerant if not entirely indifferent to others' beliefs. I should know, I am one. It's those Baptists you have to watch out for. (Kidding, kidding. . . Or am I :shock: )

[Ginger_Warrior]

Should we go ahead and make a "Christianity's issues with you" thread?

 

Didn't think so.

 

You know as much as anyone else there's a difference between a person having their own personal problems with a group, and a group having a problem with one person.

[assassin_696]

Oh boy...

[Bubsa]

Should we go ahead and make a "Christianity's issues with you" thread?

 

Didn't think so.

 

You know as much as anyone else there's a difference between a person having their own personal problems with a group, and a group having a problem with one person.

 

 

 

Well done for missing the point.

 

 

 

Should we go ahead and make a "Christianity's issues with you" thread?

 

Didn't think so.

 

 

 

Really. What's the point of making this? You say that you take issue with Christians pressing their beliefs on you -- isn't that a rather hypocritical statement if you turn around and make a thread bashing Christianity?

 

 

 

Well done for getting the point.

 

 

 

 

 

For one, if everyone thought they could do this, this forum would be overrun. Second, as N0M pointed out, the thread is highly hypocritical and deliberately provocative. Third, why should Christianity care and finally, leading on from that, since when did this person gain the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

[kelem_ryu]

Well.. some poeple fail to see the bibel in a historical context. Also many things in the Christian Dogma are just interpretations of the bibel. Did Jesus ever even used the word hell?

 

 

 

I'm not a christian myself, although i was batized as a baby and such things, but imo Jesus is a very interesting figure and he said really good things. He basically invented love in a way.

 

 

 

Just go tell your mom, this love thingy is cool (well.. if you think it is), but you won't buy into all this dogmatic [cabbage]. You make very valid points in your post.

[assassin_696]

Third, why should Christianity care and finally, leading on from that, since when did this person gain the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

 

 

Are you saying someone shouldn't have the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

[Ginger_Warrior]

For one, if everyone thought they could do this, this forum would be overrun. Second, as N0M pointed out, the thread is highly hypocritical and deliberately provocative. Third, why should Christianity care and finally, leading on from that, since when did this person gain the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

Explain to me how this is hypocritical. I don't see StrOwez pressing his views on anyone. You came here at your own free will and opted to read and reply to it. At no point is that "pressing views". Nor is it provacative. He's not deliberetely targetting Christians, rather questioning the faith itself. And as assassin has pointed out, are you seriously saying that just because a group has millions of members, that that group becomes exempt from any kind of questioning or sceptism about their faith?

[Barihawk]

Third, why should Christianity care and finally, leading on from that, since when did this person gain the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

 

 

Are you saying someone shouldn't have the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

 

 

Yet consistently on these boards, those who do challenge and question the popular beliefs get flamed for it. A little hypocritical, eh?

[assassin_696]

Third, why should Christianity care and finally, leading on from that, since when did this person gain the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

 

 

Are you saying someone shouldn't have the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

 

 

Yet consistently on these boards, those who do challenge and question the popular beliefs get flamed for it. A little hypocritical, eh?

 

 

 

I don't know what you're referring to.

[Barihawk]

Third, why should Christianity care and finally, leading on from that, since when did this person gain the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

 

 

Are you saying someone shouldn't have the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

 

 

Yet consistently on these boards, those who do challenge and question the popular beliefs get flamed for it. A little hypocritical, eh?

 

 

 

I don't know what you're referring to.

 

 

 

Let's see. I make a statement that goes against one's belief in evolution, which we can safely say to be the faith of millions. And look what happens. I get 5 posts within 20 minutes telling me I am nothing but wrong, and that my belief held by millions wrong by proxy.

[StrOwez]

Should we go ahead and make a "Christianity's issues with you" thread?

 

Didn't think so.

 

 

 

Really. What's the point of making this? You say that you take issue with Christians pressing their beliefs on you -- isn't that a rather hypocritical statement if you turn around and make a thread bashing Christianity?

 

 

 

And you do realize that Christianity encompasses a wide range of religions? It's including all protestant religions as well. So you're stereotyping a lot of people when you accuse Christians of forcing beliefs upon others. When as a matter of fact most don't. Catholics are mostly tolerant if not entirely indifferent to others' beliefs. I should know, I am one. It's those Baptists you have to watch out for. (Kidding, kidding. . . Or am I :shock: )

 

 

 

@Bubsa; I think you missed the point of this thread, I'm saying or at least trying to say the problems I have with Christianity, these problems stop me believing it. It's different to Christianity having issues with me as I'm not the one trying to get people to follow my moral values if such.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had a good read of the forum, and I for one love reading debates. It may be provocative but so what? I want answers as do a lot of other people, and to get answers you have to ask question.

 

 

 

Oh and 1billion kids believe in Santa and the tooth fairy. enough said.

 

 

 

Seriously if you don't like this thread so much, and have no argument to bring to the topic being discussed. Be the better man.

 

 

 

 

 

@N0M_AN0R

 

 

 

It may be hypocritical in your opinion, in mine it's a retaliation a defence mechanism, if someone or something is trying to make me believe something, and I don't understand. Then I ask for an explanation to help me understand.

 

 

 

I do realise that Christianity has a lot of sects, but they all get their information for those sects forms from the same book The Bible.

 

 

 

You say Catholics are the most tolerant? When the pope says Aids is bad and then condemns the use of contraceptives? That's also hypocritical.

[Bubsa]

Third, why should Christianity care and finally, leading on from that, since when did this person gain the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

 

 

Are you saying someone shouldn't have the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

 

 

I'm not saying that at all, but do you truly believe anyone on tip.it is in a position to? Most people here spawned off an online game to get through their adolescence, some still are. I hardly think we've been blessed with the presence of the next Dalai Lama.

 

 

 

I don't mean to be rude, but there's only one way threads like this will go and that's a flame fest. We are capable of a civilised discussion, just not in religion. Very few people in the world are. That's why threads like this were suspended for a while, and to be honest, I don't see the point of this thread as there's an existing one full of flames anyway.

[navyplaya]

Third, why should Christianity care and finally, leading on from that, since when did this person gain the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

 

 

He gained that right the second one of those millions tried pushing their faith on him. And in no way is he being hypocritical, he is not forcing anyone into this thread to read it, he is simply offering his opinions. So where in this do you get the right to flame his opinions? Well I suppose you do have the right as this is a free world...more or less, but if you claim that he does not have the right to question your faith, then why would you even consider to question his opinions which are also the opinions and believes of millions. One of you mentioned catholics as being extremely tolerant, if i knew you i would get right in your face and laugh it. Catholics aren't even allowed to marry non-catholics, in what way at all is that tolerant?

 

Should we go ahead and make a "Christianity's issues with you" thread?

 

Go ahead, you have the right just as he as the right to speak out against chrisitanity, but what would would this thread contain?:

 

1. Person speaks out against us.

 

2. Person doesn't believe what we say.

 

 

 

Now do these compare to his problems of religion being forced on him?? Dont think so.

[assassin_696]

Third, why should Christianity care and finally, leading on from that, since when did this person gain the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

 

 

Are you saying someone shouldn't have the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

 

 

Yet consistently on these boards, those who do challenge and question the popular beliefs get flamed for it. A little hypocritical, eh?

 

 

 

I don't know what you're referring to.

 

 

 

Let's see. I make a statement that goes against one's belief in evolution, which we can safely say to be the faith of millions. And look what happens. I get 5 posts within 20 minutes telling me I am nothing but wrong, and that my belief held by millions wrong by proxy.

 

 

 

Haha, I thought it might come down to this. Believing in evolution is not faith Faith is belief in something despite lack of evidence. Evolution is a scientific theory based on fact. There's a difference and it's in no way hypocritical to have the right to challenge someone's faith, whereas challenging a long held scientific theory simply because it doesn't fit in with Biblical creation is frankly, ignorant. If you've got some facts against evolution, great, show them and you'll become world famous. But if you're challenging based solely on principle then flaming is inevitable.

 

 

 

Third, why should Christianity care and finally, leading on from that, since when did this person gain the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

 

 

Are you saying someone shouldn't have the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

 

 

I'm not saying that at all, but do you truly believe anyone on tip.it is in a position to? Most people here spawned off an online game to get through their adolescence, some still are. I hardly think we've been blessed with the presence of the next Dalai Lama.

 

 

 

I don't mean to be rude, but there's only one way threads like this will go and that's a flame fest. We are capable of a civilised discussion, just not in religion. Very few people in the world are. That's why threads like this were suspended for a while, and to be honest, I don't see the point of this thread as there's an existing one full of flames anyway.

 

 

 

No i'm with you there, I can see this being another flame fest, hence my "oh boy" comment, but I suppose i've been drawn in and contributed myself now. I was just worried that you were challenging his freedom of opinion/speech/yadayada. No, not a lot will be accomplished here, but I don't really think that's the point. This is just an outlet for his views, and people will just polarize each other in the debate and bash away.

 

 

 

Anyway, i'm going to get out now and try and keep out.

[Nom]

I do realise that Christianity has a lot of sects, but they all get their information for those sects forms from the same book The Bible.

 

 

 

You say Catholics are the most tolerant? When the pope says Aids is bad and then condemns the use of contraceptives? That's also hypocritical.

 

 

 

I was in no way referring to the beliefs of each sect, merely pointing out that not all of them are intolerant of other beliefs (or lack thereof).

 

 

 

No, it is not hypocritical at all for him to say that, because according to Catholic beliefs contraceptives are interfering with the natural gift of sex (a couple who are going to have sex must be open to life) and are sinful, instead we encourage chastity. He's not being hypocritical, because Catholics have their own way of preventing AIDS.

[navyplaya]

[hide]

Third, why should Christianity care and finally, leading on from that, since when did this person gain the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

 

 

Are you saying someone shouldn't have the right to question and challenge the faith of millions?

 

 

 

Yet consistently on these boards, those who do challenge and question the popular beliefs get flamed for it. A little hypocritical, eh?

 

 

 

I don't know what you're referring to.

 

 

 

Let's see. I make a statement that goes against one's belief in evolution, which we can safely say to be the faith of millions. And look what happens. I get 5 posts within 20 minutes telling me I am nothing but wrong, and that my belief held by millions wrong by proxy.

 

 

 

Haha, I thought it might come down to this. Believing in evolution is not faith Faith is belief in something despite lack of evidence. Evolution is a scientific theory based on fact. There's a difference and it's in no way hypocritical to have the right to challenge someone's faith, whereas challenging a long held scientific theory simply because it doesn't fit in with Biblical creation is frankly, ignorant. If you've got some facts against evolution, great, show them and you'll become world famous. But if you're challenging based solely on principle then flaming is inevitable.

 

[/hide]

 

+1, the fact that christianity cant be proved and evolution can, someone needs to whack them selves with a PWNED stick.

[StrOwez]

I do realise that Christianity has a lot of sects, but they all get their information for those sects forms from the same book The Bible.

 

 

 

You say Catholics are the most tolerant? When the pope says Aids is bad and then condemns the use of contraceptives? That's also hypocritical.

 

 

 

(1)I was in no way referring to the beliefs of each sect, merely pointing out that not all of them are intolerant of other beliefs (or lack thereof).

 

 

 

No, it is not hypocritical at all for him to say that, because according to Catholic beliefs contraceptives are interfering with the natural gift of sex (a couple who are going to have sex must be open to life) and are sinful, instead we encourage chastity. (2) He's not being hypocritical, because Catholics have their own way of preventing AIDS.

 

 

 

(1) Fair enough, but that still doesn't answer my challenges made in OP.

 

 

 

(2) I know this is going off topic, but can you pm me the "Catholics" way of preventing AIDS?

[underu2000]

Oh good, another one of these threads bashing Christians. Seriously, we must have one of these threads in each page, you should just look one up. These things just turn into massive arguments or flamefests. And it gets seriously annoying, because it makes me feel like I'm surrounded by people who are incredibly intolerant of what I believe and that people like me are not wanted here.

 

(1) The issue of free will:

 

A simple example of a baby being born with aids, and then dying 2 weeks later, where is his free will?

 

Well, if the child survives and makes it to an age he can accept God, he still has a choice. If he dies, I believe he'd go to heaven, although different denominations have different beliefs on that.

 

 

 

 

 

(2) So therefore the child isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t unique?

 

 

The Bible tells us about each person being unique to God and that God knows the plans for our lives even before we are born. (And if you tell me he doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t then your limiting God)

 

Um....I don't what you're getting at about the child being unique. But the second point is actually a hotly debated topic, I really don't understand the concept of predestination myself, but regardless of whether God knows where you are going, there is still a choice you can make. God doesn't influence that choice, which is where free will comes from.

 

 

 

 

 

(3) So God knew the plan for my life before I was born, fine so he knew I was going to go to hell -- then why did he make me? DoesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t seem to be the God of love now?

 

 

Well, if you think about it, you do have to cross a line to be punished. In this case, after having a part of Him killed and Man still refusing to accept him, it'd be fair to get a punishment.

 

 

 

 

 

(4) The whole basis of a God making a human is bizarre, he makes us for what: Entertainment, company, friendship??? And the guys that donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t want to be his friend he condemns to hell??

 

 

(5)Then he sends his son, who is a reincarnation of him.. To die for our sins? Great so now he makes this creation, and he fell in love with it so much that he dies for it (he didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¹Ãât even have to)ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ

 

Ehm, HereÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s me thinking God is all mighty, why would he die for us the people he created? To put it into laymen terms itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s like you dying for your Runescape account.

 

THAT is the whole point of the Bible! That God died for his creation, to prove his love to the people he created. Unfortunately, your runescape account isn't very alive. But let's say you do create a sentient robot of some kind, and sacrifice a part of yourself to keep it alive. Wouldn't that signify the greatest love of all? And wouldn't the sentient creation also be aware of how much it is loved?

 

 

 

 

 

(6) Then of course, when we die and if we donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t accept Jesus as our saviour we get sent down to hell for eternal torture, well thanks GOD I didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t ask you to make meÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâæ now you going to put me to hell. Thanks! Oh and also a thanks from my friends in the rainforest, who never even heard of you.

 

Yeah, the folks in the rainforest seem to get unlucky don't they. The Bible doesn't say what happens to people not acquainted with Jesus, but then again, it is the fault of those who did know but were afraid or too lazy to tell them. In any case, these guys and the dead babies go into the category of "Bible doesn't say".

[navyplaya]

it is the fault of those who did know but were afraid or too lazy to tell them.

 

And the people who did tell them who were supposively spreading the word of "god" managed to kill millions and only make profits for them selves.

[underu2000]

it is the fault of those who did know but were afraid or too lazy to tell them.

 

And the people who did tell them who were supposively spreading the word of "god" managed to kill millions and only make profits for them selves.

 

Take cover! Incoming flames! :shock:

 

I think you misinterpreted it. What i meant to say is "it's our job as christians to tell them about Jesus". I don't see many missionaries killing millions and making profits by the way. :-k

[martinisback]

Solve your issues with your faith at home. Discuss it with your parents, go to Dr. Phil, etc.

 

 

 

Theirs no reason to start discussing your issues here as it will turn in a war, just like already has happened. I can make tons of threads on " issues with this religion, and that one. " but I dont, because i respect what people believe in.