Errdoth Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Latest Bin Laden Video Is a Forgery All references to current events, such as the 62nd anniversary of the U.S. atomic bombing of Japan, and Sarkozy and Brown being the leaders of France and the UK, occur when the video is frozen! The words spoken when the video is in motion contain no references to contemporary events and could have been made before the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Just saw that. Here is the digg link: http://digg.com/world_news/Latest_Bin_Laden_Video_Is_a_Forgery Last.fm Signature Overlays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coandca5 Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 They just put it up too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coandca5 Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 haha, look at the extreme differences in these pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemeja Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I have a copy of the Koran at home, I believe it to be a violent text. I don't mean anything to you personally. Moderate Muslims are fine respectful members of society but I believe that the religion is flawed in its ways. My opinions are not based on tabloids and ITV news. Heh, show me a part of the Koran that's violent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomom1919 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Heh, show me a part of the Koran that's violent... I'm assuming your kidding? If your not you obviously haven't read the koran, or are too young to understand it. Just google 'violence in the Koran' or some similar term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemeja Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Heh, show me a part of the Koran that's violent... I'm assuming your kidding? If your not you obviously haven't read the koran, or are too young to understand it. Just google 'violence in the Koran' or some similar term. No I am not kidding, what part of the Koran tells us to kill 2,000 people, some of which are probably Muslim, just because they're not Muslim. Sure there's stories of wars and battles but nothing that actually TELLS us to be violent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomom1919 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 No I am not kidding, what part of the Koran tells us to kill 2,000 people, some of which are probably Muslim, just because they're not Muslim. Sure there's stories of wars and battles but nothing that actually TELLS us to be violent. Really? [hide=Koran Quotes] Koran 17:16-17 When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet transgress; so that Allah's word is proved true against them: then we destroy them utterly. How many generations have we destroyed after Noah? And enough is thy Lord to note and see the Sins of his servants Koran 21:11 How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their inequities, setting up in their place other peoples Koran 58:5 Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be crumbled to dust, as were those before them: for we have already sent down Clear Signs and the Unbelievers will have a humiliating Penalty [/hide] There's alot more... Note: I'm not saying the bible doesn't incite violence either, we are on the topic of the Koran [i'm not Christian either]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemeja Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 No I am not kidding, what part of the Koran tells us to kill 2,000 people, some of which are probably Muslim, just because they're not Muslim. Sure there's stories of wars and battles but nothing that actually TELLS us to be violent. Really? [hide=Koran Quotes] Koran 17:16-17 When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet transgress; so that Allah's word is proved true against them: then we destroy them utterly. How many generations have we destroyed after Noah? And enough is thy Lord to note and see the Sins of his servants Koran 21:11 How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their inequities, setting up in their place other peoples Koran 58:5 Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be crumbled to dust, as were those before them: for we have already sent down Clear Signs and the Unbelievers will have a humiliating Penalty [/hide] There's alot more... Note: I'm not saying the bible doesn't incite violence either, we are on the topic of the Koran [i'm not Christian either]. None of those are telling us Muslims to attack anybody. Quotes like this one: Koran 58:5 Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be crumbled to dust, as were those before them: for we have already sent down Clear Signs and the Unbelievers will have a humiliating Penalty. are just saying that people who don't accept Islam by the Day of judgement will receive the ultimate punishment (hell). Doesn't every religion say that if you aren't following it you will go to Hell? I'm just saying that nothing in the Koran actuallly COMMANDS US to destroy people, but to leave them in peace so God can deal with them, just like every other religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomom1919 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 None of those are telling us Muslims to attack anybody. Quotes like this one: Koran 58:5 Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be crumbled to dust, as were those before them: for we have already sent down Clear Signs and the Unbelievers will have a humiliating Penalty. are just saying that people who don't accept Islam by the Day of judgement will receive the ultimate punishment (hell). Doesn't every religion say that if you aren't following it you will go to Hell? I'm just saying that nothing in the Koran actuallly COMMANDS US to destroy people, but to leave them in peace so God can deal with them, just like every other religion. ...Then explain the first quote I mentioned... Don't single out a misquote... Also there is something called reading between the lines :uhh: My first quote is a direct and literal representation of inciting violence. But honestly, the fact that the Koran, as well as the Bible and other religious texts, incite and mention violence, is basically a fact in the theological world. You can go argue with the world's greatest theological scholars if you're still not convinced. You'll loose, guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemeja Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Koran 17:16-17 When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet transgress; so that Allah's word is proved true against them: then we destroy them utterly. How many generations have we destroyed after Noah? And enough is thy Lord to note and see the Sins of his servants How do you think God decides? Do you think it's just because they aren't following our religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomom1919 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Koran 17:16-17 When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet transgress; so that Allah's word is proved true against them: then we destroy them utterly. How many generations have we destroyed after Noah? And enough is thy Lord to note and see the Sins of his servants How do you think God decides? Do you think it's just because they aren't following our religion? ...The Koran was written by humans. Therefore, 'we' refers to the Muslim followers, not god. That quote basically says, 'We're going to conquer and kill you if you don't believe in our god". I can go find more direct quotes if you wish... But honestly, the fact that the Koran, as well as the Bible and other religious texts, incite and mention violence, is basically a fact in the theological world. You can go argue with the world's greatest theological scholars if you're still not convinced. You'll loose against them, guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemeja Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Koran 17:16-17 When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet transgress; so that Allah's word is proved true against them: then we destroy them utterly. How many generations have we destroyed after Noah? And enough is thy Lord to note and see the Sins of his servants How do you think God decides? Do you think it's just because they aren't following our religion? ...The Koran was written by humans. Therefore, 'we' refers to the Muslim followers. I can go find more direct quotes if you wish... But honestly, the fact that the Koran, as well as the Bible and other religious texts, incite and mention violence, is basically a fact in the theological world. You can go argue with the world's greatest theological scholars if you're still not convinced. You'll loose against them, guaranteed. For the record, if you believe in Islam, then the Koran wasn't made up by humans it's actually the word of God. Anyways I'm glad this hasn't turned into a huge bunch of flaming yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomom1919 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 For the record, if you believe in Islam, then the Koran wasn't made up by humans it's actually the word of God. It's a fact that the Koran was written by the followers of Mohammad. I'm 99% sure that humans are human. However, concerning the main argument, that passage clearly demonstrates they are referring to earth, and humans. "How many generations have we destroyed...", "we send an order... then we destroy them utterly". Go read about the Muslim Conquests [http] I don't understand what's not violent about this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron8000 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Koran 5:33 The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land How about that one? Pretty sure that's telling Muslims to gruesomely kill anyone who opposes them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebbeberg Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Why are you quoting the Koran? There are Muslims who don't follow the exact fords of the Koran, jsut like there is with Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron8000 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Why are you quoting the Koran? There are Muslims who don't follow the exact fords of the Koran, jsut like there is with Christians. Because he asked the forum to show him violence in the Koran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkmage099 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Why are you quoting the Koran? There are Muslims who don't follow the exact fords of the Koran, jsut like there is with Christians. Because he asked the forum to show him violence in the Koran. Find people who actually follow that. I bet you'll find extremists. Trix.--quit WoW as of 12/07Thank you 4be2jue for the wonderful sig and avatar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomom1919 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Find people who actually follow that. I bet you'll find extremists. Your point is irrelevant. But, the extremists have a bunch of supporters; just because some Muslims don't take action on this doesn't mean they don't believe in violence to promote Islam. Many Muslims in the Middle East support and pray for the Holy Warriors. If you are Muslim and believe in the beneficial act of prayer, you are praying for killers to keep killing. Also, the violence to promote Islam was seen in the years of the Muslim Empires, etc. Also, there are many, many extremists all over the middle east. You seem misinformed and think that there are only a few thousands; if that was the case, America wouldn't still be in Iraq, and that's Iraq only... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron8000 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Find people who actually follow that. I bet you'll find extremists. irrelevant - the discussion is whether the Koran is a violent text; not the degree of literalism applied to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehravenx Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Jihad ftw :!: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underu2000 Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I don't think it's fair to say that the Qur'an actually promotes violence, at least in the modern application of it. Sure, it lists the previous conquests in the name of Allah, but perhaps it is just a warning to the enemies of the religion, but has little impact in a more culturally-aware world of today. And as with all religions, it isn't the beliefs itself that cause the violence, but the conflict with other, equally potent beliefs. Not just religions, but even political or social ideas do the same thing, WW2 as an example. Life is a joke. Yeah, I don't get it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Baron, i can not beleive you are taking quotes out of the Qu'ran and showing them with no context. When you know full well anyone can take quotes from the Bible and show that to be doing exactly the same - promoting violence. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercifull Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Please put those quotes into context then. I don't understand how you could read that in any other way. I'm at the page now and there's nothing before it or after it which explains it away as merely an out of context quote which actually is all nice and fluffy. Only a few more passages down is this one (passages before and after shown for context): 5:36 As for those who disbelieve, lo! if all that is in the earth were theirs, and as much again therewith, to ransom them from the doom on the Day of Resurrection, it would not be accepted from them. Theirs will be a painful doom. 5:37 They will wish to come forth from the Fire, but they will not come forth from it. Theirs will be a lasting doom. 5:38 As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise. 5:39 But whoso repenteth after his wrongdoing and amendeth, lo! Allah will relent toward him. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 5:40 Knowest thou not that unto Allah belongeth the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth ? He punisheth whom He will, and forgiveth whom He will. Allah is Able to do all things. Mercifull <3 Suzi "We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron8000 Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Ty Mercifull, saved me a job. Satenza I know the Bible can be taken in the exact same way - I have a dislike for literalism and extremism in all religion. People in all religions need to realise (as I do) that the texts they read were written by humans and need to be applied to modern eras as best they can - an ancient guidebook of morals as it were which must be read carefully to be applicable to the present day. P.S. re-reading I have realised that is terribly garbled and poorly expressed (blame the early morning) I hope you get my point and if you don't its probably my own fault :lol: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziv Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Has anyone else noticed that he has aged since the last video, his beard is no longer grey, he dosn't look as old. So don't you mean un-aged? Personally, I think this guy is an impostor, and the real Osama is probably dead. Remember he had kidney disease, right? It's kinda hard to get dialysis in a cave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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