Deer Season!

[Yoshi161]

Hey, this is what a friend of mine killed this year...13 pointer =))

 

 

Gah, I can't wait till next season o.0

[ktmcf121]

finally! another picture! nice deer. :thumbsup:

[Yoshi161]

Yea, and the meat taste just as good lol (surprising because its a big deer)..Had some sausage and chili from it so far =D

[indy500fan]

finally! another picture! nice deer. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

My dad doesn't usually take pictures of his deer. I just tried to take a picture of the ones that are mounted on the wall but my camera is screwed up.

 

 

 

I'll see about posting some pics tomorrow. :D

[qeltar]

Deer hunting is usually not done for fun, it's done also for the food. Far more animals are killed while growing vegetables on vast corn/wheat/etc fields which are covered by two or more vehicles which have razor sharp blades for harvesting grain, corn, etc...

 

 

Well, hunting is really done for both. I am not a fan of it myself, but I agree that it is hypocritical to complain about hunting unless one is, at the very least, mostly vegetarian.

 

 

 

I do think there are more and less humane ways of hunting. In particular, I believe bow hunting is unnecessarily cruel.

 

 

 

BTW the "more animals are killed growing vegetables" thing is a myth. The numbers are not even close to comparable, and what do you think most grain is used for? Right, feeding cattle.

 

 

The only person who can say he lives by not being a part of killing other animals/species, is one who totally grows his own food. And I don't think there are many of those on tip.it

 

 

 

There are shades of gray here, and even small efforts can have an impact.

 

 

 

P.S. We have tons of deer around my place, see them prancing around every morning. ;)

[Errdoth]

I still don't get it, which is better, more points or less points?

[Yoshi161]

I still don't get it, which is better, more points or less points?

 

Well, if you want to mount it you want more points. But on the other hand if you want to eat it you most likely want to kill a small doe or buck because the meat is usually more tender. (But some cases you can find tender meat in a bigger one)

[BlueLancer]

 

BTW the "more animals are killed growing vegetables" thing is a myth. The numbers are not even close to comparable, and what do you think most grain is used for? Right, feeding cattle.

 

 

 

As the above article pointed out, it's not a myth. If you are a vegan, you contribute to the killing of innocent animals just as much as a meat eater.

 

 

 

Why does it matter if it's intentional or not? It's this simple: If you buy wheat products, you sponsor the killing of animals. If you buy meat, you sponsor the killing of animals (though animals raised for the sole purpose of being turned into food get a much more humane death than being cut into a thousand pieces by razor blades)

 

 

 

If all you eat is vegetables, fruits and berries grown in your backyard and you wash them personally to make sure not even a single insect is on your tomato, apple, strawberry or lettuce, then you can talk about "morals".

[qeltar]

 

As the above article pointed out, it's not a myth. If you are a vegan, you contribute to the killing of innocent animals just as much as a meat eater.

 

 

Davis's claims are outliers completely unsupported by any real science or even a reasonably large constituency. Here is just one rebuttal.

 

 

 

Note also that Davis's research is based on instituting a ruminant-pasture model.. that is, grazing. Most cattle and other animals today do not graze, they are fed grain. That's the bulk of the grain that is supposedly causing all the other animals to die -- cattle eat a lot more than humans do.

 

 

 

Finally, in that article it claims that his theoretical idea would result in 300 million fewer animal deaths compared to straight veganism. But how many animals are slaughtered each year for food? Over 10 billion. Not really comparable.

 

 

Why does it matter if it's intentional or not?

 

 

I never said anything about intention, actually.

 

 

It's this simple: If you buy wheat products, you sponsor the killing of animals.

 

 

It's a matter of number and degrees. It's a copout to just say "well something dies in both cases so it doesn't matter how many are killed or under what circumstances".

 

 

If you buy meat, you sponsor the killing of animals (though animals raised for the sole purpose of being turned into food get a much more humane death than being cut into a thousand pieces by razor blades)

 

 

You apparently haven't seen much of what goes on in factory farms or slaughterhouses.

 

 

 

P.S. I am not a proponent of veganism.

[Errdoth]

 

 

If you buy meat, you sponsor the killing of animals (though animals raised for the sole purpose of being turned into food get a much more humane death than being cut into a thousand pieces by razor blades)

 

 

You apparently haven't seen much of what goes on in factory farms or slaughterhouses.

 

 

 

I'm going to be a total [wagon] here, but have you personally ever visited a slaughterhouse?

[BlueLancer]

 

I'm going to be a total [wagon] here, but have you personally ever visited a slaughterhouse?

 

 

 

Yes, at age 10. I think it was a school trip as a part of Biology. I can barely remember anything, the animals didn't seem anxious or anything, but we watched some video where they prepared the farm animals for slaughter.

 

 

 

It's a matter of number and degrees. It's a copout to just say "well something dies in both cases so it doesn't matter how many are killed or under what circumstances".

 

 

 

I don't see how it's a copout, even if a vegetarian caused the deaths of 10 animals indirectly by sponsoring the farmer by buying his product, it's just the same as me eating pieces of a cow that was slaughtered.

 

 

 

I'm not a proponent of carnivorism or vegetarianism either. I'm just human. I don't have a moral issue about eating anything.

 

 

 

Every animal lives or feasts on another living organism, most often another, smaller animal, but in agricultural societies also plants and grains. The world would have next to no species alive if it weren't for bigger animals eating the smaller ones.

 

 

 

And as far as biology goes, humans are just another species on the planet. We're lucky natural predators like dinosaurs/giant lizards/etc. are long dead so they can't hunt us for food. What's wrong with doing what every other animal is doing?

[kido14]

Sycosis and friends, get off this thread if you don't like hunting.

 

 

 

I don't hunt, but my friend and his entire family does and his house is decked out in deer skins, wolf skins w/ the head, antlers, guns, bows and arrows, slingshots, etc.

 

Wait so they have to get off since they don't like it, but you don't?

 

 

 

All I have to say is

 

YEEEEEEEE DEEER HUNTIN!!!!

[rushrock]

Sycosis and friends, get off this thread if you don't like hunting.

 

 

 

I don't hunt, but my friend and his entire family does and his house is decked out in deer skins, wolf skins w/ the head, antlers, guns, bows and arrows, slingshots, etc.

 

Wait so they have to get off since they don't like it, but you don't?

 

 

 

All I have to say is

 

YEEEEEEEE DEEER HUNTIN!!!!

 

That's not at all what I said. Read my posts, mkay?

[ktmcf121]

I still don't get it, which is better, more points or less points?

 

 

 

"points" are defined as the number of tines on the antlers of a deer that are 1 inch or longer. it really means nothing. i've seen an 8 pointer that i thought was more impressive than a particular 10 pointer, because the tines were much taller, longer, heavier, and had a wider spread. each deer's antlers are unique, which makes a mounted deer a personal pleasure.

 

 

 

and slaughterhouses are not the most humane conditions to live in, i'll admit, but....

 

 

 

A. It's nothing like what PETA makes it out to be. PETA picks out the worst ones(which are very few in number) and makes it sound like all of them share the same conditions. not true.

 

 

 

B. what do slaughterhouses have to do with hunting?

[QueenValerie]

My brother shot a 8 pointer with his bow first day of opening bow season. Sorry no picture.

 

 

 

Where I live we are so over populated with deer it's a MUST to have deer season. I can't even tell you how many I have hit with my car and with the long cold winter months here trust me it's a blessing to see some killed off by gun/bow. Over population only makes them starve to death/ lack of food source so hunting is actually a good thing where I live.

 

 

 

Opening rifle season starts Thursday here Nov 15'th and all the men in town have brain worm during deer season. :lol:

[Led-Zeppelin]

Do you guys stick close together? I'm assuming not if you're cousin killed one and you didn't hear the shot.. Isn't that pretty dangerous? Do you make sure you have visual all the time before you fire?

 

 

 

Had a few cases over here where hunters have killed their friend mistaking it for a deer. :wall:

[qeltar]

Errdoth: No, I haven't. It's not necessary to personally visit a place in order to learn what it is like.

 

 

 

 

Yes, at age 10. I think it was a school trip as a part of Biology. I can barely remember anything, the animals didn't seem anxious or anything, but we watched some video where they prepared the farm animals for slaughter.

 

 

You should look into the work of Temple Grandin. She's made a big difference in slaughter methods, and for a reason.

 

 

 

 

I don't see how it's a copout, even if a vegetarian caused the deaths of 10 animals indirectly by sponsoring the farmer by buying his product, it's just the same as me eating pieces of a cow that was slaughtered.

 

 

It's a copout because it doesn't take into account how many animals are killed, or how they are treated before and during slaughter.

 

 

 

And, to repeat yet again, meat-eaters cause not only the deaths of the animals they eat, but also far MORE of the "collateral damage" kills due to raising grain and other feed. So that entire argument is bogus.

 

 

And as far as biology goes, humans are just another species on the planet. We're lucky natural predators like dinosaurs/giant lizards/etc. are long dead so they can't hunt us for food. What's wrong with doing what every other animal is doing?

 

 

 

Because we have intelligence and moral capacity. Because we are capable of being better.

 

 

 

Bear in mind that most other animals also engage in brutal assault, murder, rape, incest and more. Are these considered tolerable in humans because we're "just another animal"?

[ktmcf121]

Do you guys stick close together? I'm assuming not if you're cousin killed one and you didn't hear the shot.. Isn't that pretty dangerous? Do you make sure you have visual all the time before you fire?

 

 

 

Had a few cases over here where hunters have killed their friend mistaking it for a deer. :wall:

 

 

 

before we leave, we make sure that everyone has a plan and we know where everyone's going to be. We take radios also, in case anyone decides to move, they can let us know before hand. we're very safe.

 

 

 

Because we have intelligence and moral capacity. Because we are capable of being better.

 

 

 

Bear in mind that most other animals also engage in brutal assault, murder, rape, incest and more. Are these considered tolerable in humans because we're "just another animal"?

 

 

 

I'm going to politely ask you to leave this topic and never return if you're trying to suggest that I'm(or any other hunter for that matter) less intelligent or less of a person than you are. -.-

[The_Bacon_Man]

Be very very quiet, I'm hunting wabbits! \

 

 

 

But seriously, I'm disapointed I haven't gone out yet. Dang parents wont let me go until I have a perfectly free weekend :-k

[BlueLancer]

 

Bear in mind that most other animals also engage in brutal assault, murder, rape, incest and more. Are these considered tolerable in humans because we're "just another animal"?

 

 

 

Humans as a species don't need any of the above to survive (though, since you'd possibly dismiss it, war [based on resources] is and has been a necessity in overcrowded populations where too many people in 1 area were tapping into the resources of the region).

 

 

 

But we need to kill animals to survive. Especially in dry continents and countries, raising livestock to kill them for food is the only way for those humans to stay alive, such as in sub-saharan countries. In countries with more vegetation, killing certain big animals (such as deer) is still a necessity to keep them from overpopulating and causing major damage to society. Why waste the food by throwing it away?

 

 

 

And, to repeat yet again, meat-eaters cause not only the deaths of the animals they eat, but also far MORE of the "collateral damage" kills due to raising grain and other feed. So that entire argument is bogus.

 

 

 

I still don't understand the "you cause more damage than me" argument. If one dictator has killed 10,000 people, the another 50,000, they're just the same. Nobody's going to say the man who killed "only" 10,000 people was a 'good' or 'better' man.

 

 

 

Except, I didn't kill that many people. I didn't kill a single person. I only contributed to killing animals who were bred to be food.

 

 

 

Have you ever gone fishing? Have you killed flies and mosquitos that were bothering you? Or did you just let them suck your blood and go away?

 

 

 

Nobody is perfect in this world. Despite how small, nearly *everyone* has killed some other living being. And I don't frankly see how 'size' makes a difference.

[ktmcf121]

well said, BlueLancer.

 

 

 

i'm still waiting for more pics!

[Slurpn711]

Oooo yes im going hunting! Im excited for the gun season since I didnt go bow hunting once this year cause I was so busy. GL to all hunters

[kelem_ryu]

I know people who hunt and i even like some of them (hunting license is pretty expensive where i live, so most hunters are snobs to begin with), but stating to enjoy hunting definitely has an impact on my opinion on somebody.

 

 

 

I like watching birds in the trees, hamsters in the bushes, crows on the fields, dogs in the park, rats in the subway, bees and bumblingbees around flowers and so on. I hardly ever saw a deer in the forest, but i would hate to see one drop dead. I really don't get how anybody could enjoy doing that. I could imagine that i would enjoy the aiming and shooting part of it, but i don't want to have to kill anything actually and watching something die isn't exactly pleasant to me either. (Just take flowers as an example. So pretty when they are blooming and eventually they'll just crumble away. Somehow that is heartbreaking.)

 

 

 

 

 

Yah and stuffed dead animals on a wall give me the creeps.

[BlueLancer]

I really don't get how anybody could enjoy doing that. I could imagine that i would enjoy the aiming and shooting part of it, but i don't want to have to kill anything actually and watching something die isn't exactly pleasant to me either.

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more with that.. I was just defending the principle of hunting (especially when done for food).

 

 

 

I don't see what's particularly so "enjoyable" about killing another creature for your own entertainment, but if you're fine with it, I wont judge you.

[qeltar]

 

Humans as a species don't need any of the above to survive

 

 

My comment was a reply to your claim that since we're also animals we should act like other animals do.

 

 

 

Well, we aren't "just another species on the planet."

 

 

But we need to kill animals to survive. Especially in dry continents and countries, raising livestock to kill them for food is the only way for those humans to stay alive, such as in sub-saharan countries. In countries with more vegetation, killing certain big animals (such as deer) is still a necessity to keep them from overpopulating and causing major damage to society. Why waste the food by throwing it away?

 

 

Killing animals is necessary in some places, and not in others. There are hundreds of millions of people around the world who survive - and more - without eating meat.

 

 

 

I don't have any problem with killing deer or other animals when there is an honest and reasonable justification for it. I DO have a problem when people try to justify it on the basis of myths and invalid rationalizations, such as claiming that being a vegetarian results in a comparable number of deaths to eating meat.

 

 

I still don't understand the "you cause more damage than me" argument.

 

 

You don't? It seems rather simple to me.

 

 

 

Earlier you referred me to an article about Steven Davis, right? His entire thesis is based on the "Least Harm Principle", and that's exactly what I'm talking about, so I don't know why you are confused.

 

 

If one dictator has killed 10,000 people, the another 50,000, they're just the same. Nobody's going to say the man who killed "only" 10,000 people was a 'good' or 'better' man.

 

 

No, they would say the guy who killed 10,000 was less bad than the one who killed 50,000.

 

 

 

In this post you claimed that humans "need to kill animals to survive". If it's based on a need for survival, how can the number of animals killed for this need not be relevant?

 

 

Have you ever gone fishing?

 

 

Sport fishing is, IMO, one of the worst forms of animal abuse. If you eat the fish, that's different.

 

 

Have you killed flies and mosquitos that were bothering you? Or did you just let them suck your blood and go away?

 

 

I leave alone insects that leave me alone. Those that attack me I defend myself against. Again, a simple principle.

 

 

Nobody is perfect in this world.

 

So you feel it's okay to use that as an excuse to not even make an effort to improve?