20 November 2007 - Duel Arena Tournaments and Changes

[qeltar]

Well, a J mod replied to me directly on the RSOF and flatly denied that they did this on purpose to kill staking.

 

 

 

If true (who knows) then that's nice, but leaves the other alternative, which isn't much better: they never bothered to come up with a more intelligent solution.

 

 

 

This fixes RWT the way spraying Round-UP over your entire lawn fixes weeds.

[Latinoking]

This is why Jagex/RuneScape will always lose to Blizzard/World of Warcraft.

[TeeBeaun]

I'v been reading a lot of people who are saying they agree they need to do something about RWT but who hate how they limited it to 3k gp. Yet, I have yet to see a suggestion as to how they could have fixed the dual arena to stop RWT in a different way. I never dual, im a skiller, but I still have not thought of a good way to stop this. I do think that 3k gp is a little rediculous, but they needed to make it some number. If it was 50k would you be happy?

[raylifes]

This is why Jagex/RuneScape will always lose to Blizzard/World of Warcraft.

 

 

 

O rly?

 

 

 

Do you know what blizzard did to stop cheaters in diablo 2? They banned whole isp's... -.-

[berbatovsky]

Well, a J mod replied to me directly on the RSOF and flatly denied that they did this on purpose to kill staking.

 

 

 

If true (who knows) then that's nice, but leaves the other alternative, which isn't much better: they never bothered to come up with a more intelligent solution.

 

 

 

This fixes RWT the way spraying Round-UP over your entire lawn fixes weeds.

 

 

 

But you're assuming there are only two possibilities:

 

Jagex lying

 

Jagex being stupid

 

 

 

Maybe Jagex are being clever and its just not clear at the moment. Maybe they have information we don't have. Maybe stakers are responsible for a significant portion of real world trading (would not surprise me in the slightest) and maybe theres no other feasible solution. Or maybe not, but we don't know what they know. Also I'm still sure they'll change the 3k thing to 100k or thereabouts.

 

 

 

Edit:I spell good.

[qeltar]

 

Maybe Jagex are being clever and its just not clear at the moment. Maybe they have information we don't have.

 

 

 

And maybe I'm really Zorzorxx from the planet Fleeblesnort. ;)

 

 

 

This update is ridiculous. It reflects a near total lack of understanding of the issues surrounding RWT and the duel arena. Hundreds of people have already made far better suggestions.

[Voldmort0]

Shame for the poll results. But still hoping to see some great outcomes of the Tzhaar. Why party pete though? :? I fail to understand, lol.

[berbatovsky]

 

Maybe Jagex are being clever and its just not clear at the moment. Maybe they have information we don't have.

 

 

 

And maybe I'm really Zorzorxx from the planet Fleeblesnort. ;)

 

 

 

This update is ridiculous. It reflects a near total lack of understanding of the issues surrounding RWT and the duel arena. Hundreds of people have already made far better suggestions.

 

 

 

Not on this thread they haven't. I refuse to surf the RSOF rants section to find them, mayhaps you could quote me one (not white market).

[Latinoking]

This is why Jagex/RuneScape will always lose to Blizzard/World of Warcraft.

 

 

 

O rly?

 

 

 

Do you know what blizzard did to stop cheaters in diablo 2? They banned whole isp's... -.-

 

 

 

Yet. Diablo 2 is still till this day one of the best rpgs out there? Ok...

[TheAncient]

Shame for the poll results. But still hoping to see some great outcomes of the Tzhaar. Why party pete though? :? I fail to understand, lol.

 

 

 

It's the party hat... everyone wants to see the party hat updated or something.

 

 

 

As for duel arena, I agree with many that it's been poorly implemented. Over time, however, I think its rewards (reducing RWT and making staking complex) outweigh the current problems.

[Severation]

I thought Jagex could detect drop traders and multi-loggers.. :-s

[Latinoking]

I thought Jagex could detect drop traders and multi-loggers.. :-s

 

 

 

You know they really don't. That's why some good sometimes honest stakers got banned.

 

 

 

Maybe they do. But Jagex doesn't disclose their methods.

[berbatovsky]

I thought Jagex could detect drop traders and multi-loggers.. :-s

 

 

 

Uniquely, stakers can RWT by purposefully losing stakes to players they pre-arranged to lose to in exchange for real money.

 

 

 

Staker A promises to 'give' Player C 10mil GP in 'exchange' for $20, they both go to the duel arena and Staker A stakes 10mil GP and Player C (if they have a brain) stake a similar ammount, Staker A turns off auto-retaliate and loses, the exchange is complete. Jagex CANNOT track this.

[qeltar]

I thought Jagex could detect drop traders and multi-loggers.. :-s

 

 

 

Uniquely, stakers can RWT by purposefully losing stakes to players they pre-arranged to lose to in exchange for real money.

 

 

 

Staker A promises to 'give' Player C 10mil GP in 'exchange' for $20, they both go to the duel arena and Staker A stakes 10mil GP and Player C 9if they have a brain) stake a similar ammount, Staker A turns off auto-retaliate and loses, the exchange is complete. Jagex CANNOT track this.

 

 

 

Of course they can.

 

 

 

All they have to do is record the outcomes of duels over X amount, and have a report be generated when the same thing happens too many times from one player in a suspicious manner.

[berbatovsky]

I thought Jagex could detect drop traders and multi-loggers.. :-s

 

 

 

Uniquely, stakers can RWT by purposefully losing stakes to players they pre-arranged to lose to in exchange for real money.

 

 

 

Staker A promises to 'give' Player C 10mil GP in 'exchange' for $20, they both go to the duel arena and Staker A stakes 10mil GP and Player C 9if they have a brain) stake a similar ammount, Staker A turns off auto-retaliate and loses, the exchange is complete. Jagex CANNOT track this.

 

 

 

Of course they can.

 

 

 

All they have to do is record the outcomes of duels over X amount, and have a report be generated when the same thing happens too many times from one player in a suspicious manner.

 

 

 

 

 

So if a player stakes often and loses what happens? You assume they cheat or assume they suck? FLAWED.

[Voldmort0]

I just read the duel arena update.. 5 times.

 

I've just cruised like 3 different forums, including RSOF, to see if it really said what I think it said.

 

 

 

My only question is:

 

 

 

What the living hell were they thinking?

 

They are completely DESTROYING normal 1v1 staking and making a max of >>3k gp<< per stake? What on earth?! That's even laughable! It makes NO sence. It's as if jagex said that real world traders were way more important than the whole point of the duel arena and what the players want to do in it :?

[hatebringer]

There is now a cap to the amount a player can win in the space of 15 minutes in a staked duel, which is set to 3,000 coins. This limit will make it harder for real-world traders to unfairly use the Duel Arena as a covert way of transferring items. Of course, if you want to take part in some high-stakes duelling you now have the duel tournaments instead!

 

 

 

Holy hell. Even I, not being a stacker, would ahve to say this is hoorible. I highly doubt, and hope, it will last....... :shock:

 

 

 

you hope it will last?

 

 

 

I actually ranted about this in the RSOF, it kinda kills many markets other than the actual staking if you think about it. I expect alot of prices to rise up, but i REALLY don't want this 3k cap per 15 min(wtf were they thinking??) to stay.

 

 

 

I love most of the updates Jagex comes up with, and the tournaments could use a bit of work with glitches and all, but seriously, the 3k cap made me stop reading the update and post a rant.

[qeltar]

 

So if a player stakes often and loses what happens?

 

 

 

You look at the pattern of losses, combine that with information like IP addresses and trading patterns and determine if they are legit or not.

 

 

 

Jagex claims to be good at this stuff, remember? :)

[meb]

L M A O

 

 

 

'Nuff said.

[berbatovsky]

 

So if a player stakes often and loses what happens?

 

 

 

You look at the pattern of losses, combine that with information like IP addresses and trading patterns and determine if they are legit or not.

 

 

 

Jagex claims to be good at this stuff, remember? :)

 

 

 

I don't think Jagex have ever claimed that they are 'good at tracking and detecting illegal transfers', I think they've said they TRY to stop these things happening.

 

Aside from that how many stakes a day are there? 10k?100k? I figure its something like that, how can they track this much information AND analyze it in a reasonable amount of time(assuming they don't have a working A.I)? I have to say this problem is not like that of autoers or whatever, autoers cannot be stopped/limited because Jagex can't screen players. RWT through the duel arena CAN be stopped/limited by imposing limits on the amount being staked. I still think Jagex will change the limit to 100k per 15 minutes and actually I completely agree that at the moment it is verging on rude to put that in place (although once the bugs are out duel tournaments all arguments about the 3k thing are pointless because you CAN STILL STAKE LARGE AMOUNTS OF GEEEPEEEEEES).

[qeltar]

 

I don't think Jagex have ever claimed that they are 'good at tracking and detecting illegal transfers'

 

 

Yes. They have.

 

 

Aside from that how many stakes a day are there? 10k?100k? I figure its something like that, how can they track this much information AND analyze it in a reasonable amount of time(assuming they don't have a working A.I)?

 

 

There are far more trades each day and they claim to be able to track those. Maybe they are lying?

 

 

RWT through the duel arena CAN be stopped/limited by imposing limits on the amount being staked.

 

 

Yet nobody at Jagex could figure out that a reasonable limit would suffice, without going to the ridiculous extreme of 12k per hour?

 

 

(although once the bugs are out duel tournaments all arguments about the 3k thing are pointless because you CAN STILL STAKE LARGE AMOUNTS OF GEEEPEEEEEES).

 

 

 

Not as they are currently implemented. Have you tried them? They might be fun when the bugs are out but they're completely different from regular staking.

[Ghost-Knigth]

Maybe Jagex have gone a bit too far in their hunt for Real World Traders and Drop Trading in generel. It shouldn't ruin one of the oldest aspects of RuneScape just to avoid a fairly little part of RWT and DT. At least that's my opinion.

 

 

 

I really hope the change it - not nessecarily back - but so that the old system still could work in some parts.

 

Lol, the sole purpose of my character is official dead. Might aswell max out now.

[berbatovsky]

 

1)I don't think Jagex have ever claimed that they are 'good at tracking and detecting illegal transfers'

 

 

Yes. They have.

 

 

2)Aside from that how many stakes a day are there? 10k?100k? I figure its something like that, how can they track this much information AND analyze it in a reasonable amount of time(assuming they don't have a working A.I)?

 

 

There are far more trades each day and they claim to be able to track those. Maybe they are lying?

 

 

3)RWT through the duel arena CAN be stopped/limited by imposing limits on the amount being staked.

 

 

Yet nobody at Jagex could figure out that a reasonable limit would suffice, without going to the ridiculous extreme of 12k per hour?

 

 

4)(although once the bugs are out duel tournaments all arguments about the 3k thing are pointless because you CAN STILL STAKE LARGE AMOUNTS OF GEEEPEEEEEES).

 

 

 

Not as they are currently implemented. Have you tried them? They might be fun when the bugs are out but they're completely different from regular staking.

 

 

 

 

 

1)Where/when?

 

2)They CAN track all information, they own the servers(rent?) afterall, theres a big difference between that and analyzing and detecting trends and patterns in said information.

 

3)I agree thats odd but my theory is that they wanted to make everyone play the new 'mini-game' and thus created such a massive contrast-you want money then tournament is the only option-you want fun then you can still duel 1-1 with a (very)small stake.

 

4)As i said 'once the bugs are out'. Thanks for repeating my point though :).

[raylifes]

This is why Jagex/RuneScape will always lose to Blizzard/World of Warcraft.

 

 

 

O rly?

 

 

 

Do you know what blizzard did to stop cheaters in diablo 2? They banned whole isp's... -.-

 

 

 

Yet. Diablo 2 is still till this day one of the best rpgs out there? Ok...

 

 

 

True, but that wasn't the point, I was just trying to say that they both make very bad decisions from time to time and that in that sense blizzard is no better than jagex.

[qeltar]

[hide]

 

1)I don't think Jagex have ever claimed that they are 'good at tracking and detecting illegal transfers'

 

 

Yes. They have.

 

 

2)Aside from that how many stakes a day are there? 10k?100k? I figure its something like that, how can they track this much information AND analyze it in a reasonable amount of time(assuming they don't have a working A.I)?

 

 

There are far more trades each day and they claim to be able to track those. Maybe they are lying?

 

 

3)RWT through the duel arena CAN be stopped/limited by imposing limits on the amount being staked.

 

 

Yet nobody at Jagex could figure out that a reasonable limit would suffice, without going to the ridiculous extreme of 12k per hour?

 

 

4)(although once the bugs are out duel tournaments all arguments about the 3k thing are pointless because you CAN STILL STAKE LARGE AMOUNTS OF GEEEPEEEEEES).

 

 

 

Not as they are currently implemented. Have you tried them? They might be fun when the bugs are out but they're completely different from regular staking.

 

[/hide]

 

 

 

 

1)Where/when?

 

 

Tons of places and constantly. Here is just one example.

 

 

2)They CAN track all information, they own the servers(rent?) afterall, theres a big difference between that and analyzing and detecting trends and patterns in said information.

 

 

It's not difficult to do.

 

 

 

Killing staking to get rid of RWT makes as much sense as killing trading to get rid of RWT.

 

 

3)I agree thats odd but my theory is that they wanted to make everyone play the new 'mini-game' and thus created such a massive contrast-you want money then tournament is the only option-you want fun then you can still duel 1-1 with a (very)small stake.

 

 

If true (they deny it) then that goes back to my prior complaint about them not being honest about their goals here.

 

 

4)As i said 'once the bugs are out'. Thanks for repeating my point though :).

 

 

 

You didn't get *my* point. The tournaments are completely different from staking even without the bug issue. They can fix the bugs, and the tournament will have merit as an additional feature but it is far too different from staking to appeal to those who enjoy that.