Smash Club.

[Inuashakent]

It's probably her laggy smashes that has an automatic spot dodge/roll punish feature on them.

 

 

 

 

D3 is big, and comboable. So is Snake in a way. But that doesnt really explain why he is so low atm, other than D3 being a major noob.

 

D3 has his own projectile and can deal with stuff like that. Plus he has a far better edgeguard/recovery, and chain grab/infinites, while still having DK's speed and reach.

[Wizz]

Ok, so now it isnt. So now we can use the logical name, Brawl.

 

 

 

And you called Brawl+ "brawl"...

 

 

 

D3 is big, and comboable. So is Snake in a way. But that doesnt really explain why he is so low atm, other than D3 being a major noob.

 

D3 is my biggest enemy. :ohnoes:

 

He is one of the characters that can infinite chain me. Even Marth Specialist find it hard to Chain and [bleep]e Lucario.

 

I main Snake, and it seems like I can never beat Lucario #-o

 

 

 

Well using Pit I don't have TOO much trouble playing a Lucario, but for some reason I have a hard time beating them with Falco. I think the main reason why is because of Lucario's superior reach.

 

 

 

One of the reason people find Lucario a weird character to fight is because he is both heavy and light. In the Air Lucario falls at the speed of a semi light character and leaps fairly far but in the ground he slow. His reach in the ground is far more longer than in the air and he has some many invisible hit boxes it not funny (His Up A hit in both directions and up) Also people get pissed because when I'm losing they say that Lucario becomes harder, one even accused me of cheating saying I put a cheat in to make him hit harder :roll:

[RayOxide]

Lucario's arent hard.

 

Just really annoying.

 

 

 

D3 has his own projectile and can deal with stuff like that. Plus he has a far better edgeguard/recovery, and chain grab/infinites, while still having DK's speed and reach.

 

 

 

You dont get it? DK has dropped 8 spots since the first tier list because of one thing.

 

D3 infinite chaingrab. It should be banned, but it isnt. Why? Because he's high tier. The only person high tier atm who isnt really cheap is Wario.

 

As Sakurai said when Brawl came out, he wanted Brawl to be winnable by everyone. Obviously this doesnt go much for competitive, but why do we get the most broken fat duck killing off potentially decent characters?

 

Oh and DK is faster :P

[Inuashakent]

 

D3 infinite chaingrab. It should be banned, but it isnt. Why? Because he's high tier. The only person high tier atm who isnt really cheap is Wario.

 

This is funny, Smashboards didn't ban them, but it's up to the tournament hoster to ban them or not. This applies to standing release grab, IC's infinite grabs, etc... Even larger tournaments are starting to ban them, but BANNING stuff has a huge impact on the overall metagame. HUGE. You can't just decide to ban something just because it's unfair, you have to consider EVERYTHING, including CPing. If DDD could infinite all characters, of course it'll be banned. But he can't. CPing is a large and vital part of competitive play. If you want to pick only DK and go to a tournament, that's fine, but no Johns because you got infinited.

 

 

 

And second, that's definitely not the only reason why he dropped. Sure, it's a big part of it, but he can't deal with projectiles besides the ftilt priority block and Pshield... He can't camp at all, and his size is an overall weakness. Image trying to deal with Falco's camp... lasers that you can't stop, he's faster than you and you're bigger than him, and he has a shine that outranges you. I would say it's his physical features that gimp him the most... like Bowser.

 

 

 

One of the reason people find Lucario a weird character to fight is because he is both heavy and light. In the Air Lucario falls at the speed of a semi light character and leaps fairly far but in the ground he slow.

 

That's not wierd at all... although his power up with damage really is.

 

 

EDIT: His tournament results is bad and his metagame hasn't picked up much at all.

[RayOxide]

Well it should be overall banned. -.- Everyone can do it, whereas it takes a long time in preparing for the IC's chain - not to mention D3 is already a bit broken without his chaingrabs, and IC's have a very small grab range.

 

 

 

Actually, I bet if D3's infinite chain was banned, DK and alot of other characters would go up quite a bit, maybe to like 11-12 for DK, and D3 will drop to possibly (2 or 3 less than he is now)

[Inuashakent]

Well it should be overall banned. -.- Everyone can do it, whereas it takes a long time in preparing for the IC's chain - not to mention D3 is already a bit broken without his chaingrabs, and IC's have a very small grab range.

 

It doesn't take long to learn Charizards, Marths, and Bowser's infinites. But the IC's point is invalid. Even if it is hard, it is very possible. So hard infinites (that can still be pulled off very consistently by higher leveled players) should be banned while easier ones should be banned? SBR determines bans at top level play.

 

 

Actually, I bet if D3's infinite chain was banned, DK and alot of other characters would go up quite a bit, maybe to like 11-12 for DK, and D3 will drop to possibly (2 or 3 less than he is now)

 

DK would probably rise the next tier list... I agree his placement is too low... And if there was no infinite, he would also rise, but not by much. It's just 1 matchup, after all. Counterpicks solves it.

[RayOxide]

Charizard doesnt have any INFINITE infinities...(?)

 

 

 

And not every pro would know how to do the IC's infinity, whereas everyone can just do D3's. Which means, in a 3 game matchup with another player, You arent going to send in IC's because they chain them so well, where D3 basically does the job 200 times easier. Noone needs to learn IC's chains since D3's covers 90% of the roster.

 

 

 

DK definitely will go to 12 if D3's chain is banned.

[Inuashakent]

Charizard has the same infinites marth has.

 

 

 

And pros do know how to use IC's infinites. You're not getting anywhere with IC's without them, let alone to pro rank.

Noone needs to learn IC's chains since D3's covers 90% of the roster.

Infinites, not chaingrabs. And there's no reason to play Bottom tier characters because they suck, but people use them anyways. People will always use IC.

 

 

 

And I'm assuming DK will probably rise, he's way too low for his greatness, excluding the D3 matchup. (90:10 :XD: ) He will rise even without the ban, or so I'd assume. Time will tell.

[wildmonkeys5]

Dammit, idk what's up with my wifi, I can never stay connected for like more than a minute :(

 

 

 

EDIT: 100 posts :o

[Inuashakent]

Dammit, idk what's up with my wifi, I can never stay connected for like more than a minute :(

 

 

 

EDIT: 100 posts :o

 

Might be your bandwidth...

 

 

 

Were you able to before and did you change anything?

[wildmonkeys5]

Dammit, idk what's up with my wifi, I can never stay connected for like more than a minute :(

 

 

 

EDIT: 100 posts :o

 

Might be your bandwidth...

 

 

 

Were you able to before and did you change anything?

 

 

 

Yeah I used to be able to, and my dad runs all that so idk if anythings been changed. I mentioned it to him and his response, "Well, not my problem." -.-

[Inuashakent]

Then ask him if he changed anything. If he did, then there's nothing you can do, because it would take a huge hassle to fix it. And according to your father, it's not his problem, so he's not going to fix it... :roll:

[wildmonkeys5]

Then ask him if he changed anything. If he did, then there's nothing you can do, because it would take a huge hassle to fix it. And according to your father, it's not his problem, so he's not going to fix it... :roll:

 

 

 

Yeah, I guess I'm just SOL :thumbdown:

[Zaaps1]

I would go to your Wii and get the MAC number. Then I'd go to your Modem, open up the management page on your internet browser (you punch in the modem's number onto the address bar) and see if the Wii's MAC number is blocked or anything.

[wildmonkeys5]

I would go to your Wii and get the MAC number. Then I'd go to your Modem, open up the management page on your internet browser (you punch in the modem's number onto the address bar) and see if the Wii's MAC number is blocked or anything.

 

 

 

Eh, I didn't really understand that lol, like I said, my dad deals with all that...I'm sure if i talk to him later he'll check it out....I hope.

 

 

 

But I don't think it's blocked, cuz i can usually stay connected for a whole minute :wall:

[RayOxide]

Charizard has the same infinites marth has.

 

 

 

Explain? Both of them have huge knockback with everything except jab.

 

 

 

And pros do know how to use IC's infinites. You're not getting anywhere with IC's without them, let alone to pro rank.

Noone needs to learn IC's chains since D3's covers 90% of the roster.

Infinites, not chaingrabs. And there's no reason to play Bottom tier characters because they suck, but people use them anyways. People will always use IC.

 

 

 

No.. Someone isnt going to pick the IC's because they can "infinity" throw someone, because D3 is already chaingrabbing / infinitying a huge amount of the roster. Why do people need to use the IC's? They dont.

 

It does show skill that some people in pro's still cant do, and shows how cheap someone doesnt have to be, only slightly :P

 

 

 

And I'm assuming DK will probably rise, he's way too low for his greatness, excluding the D3 matchup. (90:10 :XD: ) He will rise even without the ban, or so I'd assume. Time will tell.

 

 

 

Without the ban he'll stay 16-18.

 

 

 

Oh, and Kent, tiers are for queers.

 

Well, not really. But saying low tier characters suck is biased and incorrect, since you use the 2nd highest :| and because YOSHI counters MK well-ish.

 

 

 

And I main Sheik, Fox.

 

Then I second Squirtle, Charizard and Wolf.

 

 

 

They're all kinda low.

[Toki_Hakurei]

After looking at the Mario thread in SmashBoards the reason why Mario fell is because not many people main him enough despite the fact that he is an excellent gimper. He can screw up many of the high tier characters' recoveries depending on how you use Mario. He can spam fireballs at you to his heart's content. And with Luigi as a partner in team battles they can perform an AT that can KO someone as low as 40% which is known as the Cape Rape. The FLUDD is probably one of the most useful tools in Mario's arsenal as it can push people in a direction they don't wanna go. And his aerials can juggle you pretty badly.

 

 

 

Even with all of these facts he still fell down because people think he isn't a force to be reckoned with. Luckily as long as Boss and The Cape are still here proving he is a deadly force then Mario might still have a chance at rising back up.

[RayOxide]

Can Mario get high tier characters off the edge? Not without a lot of trouble. Best spacing attack is FIREBALL. It's slow and easily avoided.

 

 

 

Oh and "Cape Rape" Doesnt seem right.

[Toki_Hakurei]

Can Mario get high tier characters off the edge? Not without a lot of trouble. Best spacing attack is FIREBALL. It's slow and easily avoided.

 

 

 

Oh and "Cape Rape" Doesnt seem right.

 

[yt]g7WjRsEgGiY[/yt]

 

I could have sworn I went through the trouble to explain it to you many pages ago...

[RayOxide]

Yeah you did.

 

A cape that magically turns someone around now abuses a flaw in the physics engine to kill at an amazingly low percent?

 

:)

[Toki_Hakurei]

Well you can't call Mario broken because of this exploit because its more common to use it in a team battle and not a 1 vs 1. I remember doing this in an online free for all with two other friends. Kirby did an up smash to Charizard and I caped Charizard as soon as he got hit. He got KOed at like 53%. But I find this more likely to happen than a Sacred Combo in a free for all.

[Inuashakent]

Charizard has the same infinites marth has.

 

 

 

Explain? Both of them have huge knockback with everything except jab.

 

You know, the grab release infinites on Ness/Lucas. Only 2 characters, but DDD can only infinite 5 too.

 

 

And pros do know how to use IC's infinites. You're not getting anywhere with IC's without them, let alone to pro rank.

Noone needs to learn IC's chains since D3's covers 90% of the roster.

Infinites, not chaingrabs. And there's no reason to play Bottom tier characters because they suck, but people use them anyways. People will always use IC.

 

 

 

No.. Someone isnt going to pick the IC's because they can "infinity" throw someone, because D3 is already chaingrabbing / infinitying a huge amount of the roster. Why do people need to use the IC's? They dont.

 

It does show skill that some people in pro's still cant do, and shows how cheap someone doesnt have to be, only slightly :P

 

DDD can only infinite 5, if that's "huge". Mario, Luigi, Samus, DK, and Bowser. Besides DK, you hardly would ever see any of those 4 characters anyways. IC has infinites on all. And IC isn't made up of 100% infinite grabs, by the way. Some people could like desyncing and controlling 2 characters at once.

 

 

 

You mean pros can't do it 100% of the time? I don't think anybody can do that, considering if the opponent DI/SDI crazily enough they'll get out soon enough... It doesn't take too long, either. I went to Smashboards, and there was a thread about how long it took to learn them. People said a month or so, which isn't too long considering harder characters (Marth, Diddy, ZSS, Snake) takes 3 months to learn how to use them proficiently.

 

 

 

And I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE it when people call IC's grab game cheap. You apparently don't know IC is one of the worst grabbers in the game, unlike DDD who has the BEST grab reach, speed, and doesn't have the hassle of having to desync and place Nana perfectly for the CG to work. It takes a HUGE amount of prediction and spacing to get a grab in. Wonder why IC isn't top 1 if he can simply grab and infinite anybody?

 

And I'm assuming DK will probably rise, he's way too low for his greatness, excluding the D3 matchup. (90:10 :XD: ) He will rise even without the ban, or so I'd assume. Time will tell.

 

 

 

Without the ban he'll stay 16-18.

 

 

 

Oh, and Kent, tiers are for queers.

 

Well, not really. But saying low tier characters suck is biased and incorrect, since you use the 2nd highest :| and because YOSHI counters MK well-ish.

 

 

 

And I main Sheik, Fox.

 

Then I second Squirtle, Charizard and Wolf.

 

 

 

They're all kinda low.

 

Whoop de [bleep]ing doo. Congrats, now you can go tell all your friends you main lower tier characters and win! If you use low tiers, good for you, but if you're using that to glorify your win or make that an excuse when you lose, then... well, fail. Yoshi can't deal with anybody higher tiered but MK, and even then he's not even a soft counter. He comes close at 45:55 or so. Yoshi could rise just because of that specific matchup, but considering he still is soft countered BY metaknight, I don't see why that would happen.

 

 

 

And how is it biased that low tiers characters suck because I use the second highest? Because I prefer higher tier characters? No, that's not true at all. When I play, I use Marth, Falcon, and DK the most offline, and I'm BEST with Snake. There's a difference... my preference for characters has NOTHING to do with tiers.

 

 

 

And tiers are for queers... I hate that saying, it's for the ignorant who deny facts and try to make themselves feel better because their characters suck. Trying to improve a character is very possible, because lower tier characters usually have very little rep, but if you remain in denial... they'll never improve. And if tiers are for queers, why do you keep mentioning that Snake is the 2nd best? And that MK is cheap and broken? By your logic, each and every character should be equal.

 

Best spacing attack is FIREBALL. It's slow and easily avoided.

 

Set up/forcing positions/field control.

 

Can Mario get high tier characters off the edge?

 

Metaknight. Walk off the edge, and he'll come chasing after you. :roll:

[RayOxide]

Charizard has a longer grab than D3.

 

IC's grab is short. I said its short. It's very short. I never ever said IC's are cheap. I said D3 is cheap.

 

And I didnt mean infinities, I said chaingrabs on most of the roster last time; you corrected and said infinities, so I said infinities, so dont correct and then re-correct to what I said in the first [bleep]ing place.

 

 

 

And no Kent, I dont use 'low tier characters because i like to glorify a win'. Obviously, I use them to match my playing style, which is why Squirtle, Sheik and Fox are top 3, fast, not very laggy and pretty decent grab games. I have Wolf for spacing and Charizard for tanking pretty much.

 

I'm also against, in every game I play, people using the broken things/characters/weapons to win all the time.

 

Do people use them because they want to glorify a win? NO, they use them because they seem to be pretty crap at the Game and need to abuse the overpowered people for a win.

 

 

 

Now, lets see, when I vsed you, the only character under 10 you used was DK. You use heavyweights. Why no Bowser? Is he not cheap enough?

 

 

 

I have no idea how this turned into an argument when it was simply a debate on D3's chaingrab, then into IC's infinities.

 

 

 

Oh and btw, Snake isnt hard to learn, and neither is Marth by the looks of it. In brawl anyway.

 

 

And tiers are for queers... I hate that saying, it's for the ignorant who deny facts and try to make themselves feel better because their characters suck. Trying to improve a character is very possible, because lower tier characters usually have very little rep, but if you remain in denial... they'll never improve. And if tiers are for queers, why do you keep mentioning that Snake is the 2nd best? And that MK is cheap and broken? By your logic, each and every character should be equal.

 

 

 

Wow I just had to laugh at that.

 

I said I was joking. Are you really [developmentally delayed]ed or do you just like completely missing sentences?

 

 

 

Once again, I state you are a hypocrite. You say I overreact at things? YOU DONT EVEN READ.

 

 

 

EDIT: I really dont know why I bother. Kent skips sentences, which is usually why a simple debate or joke turns into a flame war.

[Inuashakent]

 

I said I was joking. Are you really [developmentally delayed] or do you just like completely missing sentences?

 

 

 

Once again, I state you are a hypocrite. You say I overreact at things? YOU DONT EVEN READ.

 

 

And tiers are for queers... I hate that saying

 

I don't care if you were joking. I still hate it... that's why I mentioned that.

 

Charizard has a longer grab than D3.

 

He can only CG 2 largely underused characters. When I said longest, I meant one of the longest... doesn't matter either way, they're both freakishly long.

 

And I didnt mean infinities, I said chaingrabs on most of the roster last time; you corrected and said infinities, so I said infinities, so dont correct and then re-correct to what I said in the first [bleep] place.

 

No, you didn't clarify that at all. You said...

 

D3 is already chaingrabbing / infinitying a huge amount of the roster

 

How am I suppost to know if you meant Chaingrabbing or infiniting?

 

 

And no Kent, I dont use 'low tier characters because i like to glorify a win'. Obviously, I use them to match my playing style, which is why Squirtle, Sheik and Fox are top 3, fast, not very laggy and pretty decent grab games. I have Wolf for spacing and Charizard for tanking pretty much.

 

Just a coincidence you mentioned I used the second best character and you use the lower ones? Hmm...

 

 

Now, lets see, when I vsed you, the only character under 10 you used was DK. You use heavyweights. Why no Bowser? Is he not cheap enough?

 

I don't even play Online anymore, and I never really liked it. And as for the reason I didn't use Bowser and Ganon (you forgot to mention that) is because they don't play like heavyweights at all. Ganon is all about the choke, and Bowser is all about grabbing/OOS game. They don't play like Ike, DK, charizard, and DDD who are more approach like with their long and powerful game. I don't use a character just because they're heavyweights, IE Marth...

 

 

Oh and btw, Snake isnt hard to learn, and neither is Marth by the looks of it. In brawl anyway.

 

Yes, both of them are very hard to learn. How to stay on the ground, exact cooking times and throwing angles, times, mindgames, field control, edgeguards, dthrow reads, how to deal with edgeguards, air game, etc... only a noob Snake would even consider Snake easy to use. What, you think you can spam ftilt all day? As for Marth, I would consider him one of the hardest characters to learn by far. He's extremely easy to pick up, but VERY VERY VERY hard to master. He has to space PERFECTLY for his attacks to damage, and his WHOLE entire metagame is evolved around spacing. All of it. The only character who's like that.

 

 

I have no idea how this turned into an argument when it was simply a debate on D3's chaingrab, then into IC's infinities.

 

And not every pro would know how to do the IC's infinity, whereas everyone can just do D3's.

 

Charizard doesnt have any INFINITE infinities...(?)

 

 

DK definitely will go to 12 if D3's chain is banned.

Well it should be overall banned. -.- Everyone can do it, whereas it takes a long time in preparing for the IC's chain - not to mention D3 is already a bit broken without his chaingrabs, and IC's have a very small grab range.

 

3 infinite chaingrab. It should be banned, but it isnt. Why? Because he's high tier. The only person high tier atm who isnt really cheap is Wario.

 

 

 

And about the last thing you said... tell me how Snake is cheap? He has one of the worst airgames in the game. And he has a hard time with people who outcamp him and are decently good at Edgeguarding.

[RayOxide]

Snake has a too good approaching game and he can duck under all the lasers. Everything but arrows he can duck under, and arrows are slow enough to powershield.

 

 

 

And I said the fat duck had chaingrabs on other people before THAT one.

 

 

 

Actually, I didnt find Snake hard to pick up. I have always had a knack for picking things up quickly, like times and angles. Which is why I am good at Arcanists

 

I'm pretty decent at Spacing with Marth, so I'm going to have to say, he's not hard since there are no combos in brawl, his game is just outspacing and connecting F smashes.

 

 

 

When I said 'not every pro would know how to do the IC's infinity' I meant not every PRO not every IC's Pro.

 

 

 

And btw infinite grab releases shouldnt be considered infinities. They dont do anything but stall, no damage except for the quickly worn-out pummels.