"The Grid", What are your thoughts?

[Carl]

Okay, I rememberd reading this article about "The Grid" thought I'd post it here.

 

 

 

Well, it's basically the Next Gen Internet, with propsed speeds up to 10,000 times faster than what we have today. Take a read:

 

 

 

Article also located http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2001/03/42230

 

 

 

[hide=The Article from WIRED]

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands -- The Matrix may be the future of virtual reality, but researchers say the Grid is the future of collaborative problem-solving.

 

 

 

More than 400 scientists gathered at the Global Grid Forum this week to discuss what may be the Internet's next evolutionary step.

 

 

 

Though distributed computing evokes associations with populist initiatives like SETI@home, where individuals donate their spare computing power to worthy projects, the Grid will link PCs to each other and the scientific community like never before.

 

 

 

 

 

The Grid will not only enable sharing of documents and MP3 files, but also connect PCs with sensors, telescopes and tidal-wave simulators.

 

 

 

IBM's Brian Carpenter suggested "computing will become a utility just like any other utility."

 

 

 

Carpenter said, "The Grid will open up ... storage and transaction power in the same way that the Web opened up content." And just as the Internet connects various public and private networks, Cisco Systems' Bob Aiken said, "you're going to have multiple grids, multiple sets of middleware that people are going to choose from to satisfy their applications."

 

 

 

As conference moderator Walter Hoogland suggested, "The World Wide Web gave us a taste, but the Grid gives a vision of an ICT (Information and Communication Technology)-enabled world."

 

 

 

Though the task of standardizing everything from system templates to the definitions of various resources is a mammoth one, the GGF can look to the early days of the Web for guidance. The Grid that organizers are building is a new kind of Internet, only this time with the creators having a better knowledge of where the bottlenecks and teething problems will be.

 

 

 

The general consensus at the event was that although technical issues abound, the thorniest issues will involve social and political dimensions, for example how to facilitate sharing between strangers where there is no history of trust.

 

 

 

Amsterdam seemed a logical choice for the first Global Grid Forum because not only is it the world's most densely cabled city, it was also home to the Internet Engineering Task Force's first international gathering in 1993. The IETF has served as a model for many of the GGF's activities: protocols, policy issues, and exchanging experiences.

 

 

 

The Grid Forum, a U.S.-based organization combined with eGrid - the European Grid Forum, and Asian counterparts to create the Global Grid Forum (GGF) in November, 2000.

 

 

 

The Global Grid Forum organizers said grid communities in the United States and Europe will now run in synch.

 

 

 

The Grid evolved from the early desire to connect supercomputers into "metacomputers" that could be remotely controlled. The word "grid" was borrowed from the electricity grid, to imply that any compatible device could be plugged in anywhere on the Grid and be guaranteed a certain level of resources, regardless of where those resources might come from.

 

 

 

Scientific communities at the conference discussed what the compatibility standards should be, and how extensive the protocols need to be.

 

 

 

As the number of connected devices runs from the thousands into the millions, the policy issues become exponentially more complex. So far, only draft consensus has been reached on most topics, but participants say these are the early days.

 

 

 

As with the Web, the initial impetus for a grid came from the scientific community, specifically high-energy physics, which needed extra resources to manage and analyze the huge amounts of data being collected.

 

 

 

The most nettlesome issues for industry are security and accounting. But unlike the Web, which had security measures tacked on as an afterthought, the Grid is being designed from the ground up as a secure system.

 

 

 

 

 

Conference participants debated what types of services (known in distributed computing circles as resource units) provided through the Grid will be charged for. And how will the administrative authority be centralized?

 

 

 

Corporations have been slow to cotton to this new technology's potential, but the suits are in evidence at this year's Grid event. As GGF chairman Charlie Catlett noted, "This is the first time I've seen this many ties at a Grid forum."

 

 

 

In addition to IBM, firms such as Boeing, Philips and Unilever are already taking baby steps toward the Grid.

 

 

 

Though commercial needs tend to be more transaction-focused than those of scientific pursuits, most of the technical requirements are common. Furthermore, both science and industry participants say they require a level of reliability that's not offered by current peer-to-peer initiatives: Downloading from Napster, for example, can take seconds or minutes, or might not work at all.

 

 

 

Garnering commercial interest is critical to the Grid's future. Cisco's Aiken explained that "if grids are really going to take off and become the major impetus for the next level of evolution in the Internet, we have to have something that allows (them) to easily transfer to industry."

 

 

 

Other potential Grid components include creating a virtual observatory, and doctors performing simulations of blood flows. While some of these applications have existed for years, the Grid will make them routine rather than exceptional.

 

 

 

The California Institute of Technology's Paul Messina said that by sharing computing resources, "you get more science from the same investment."

 

 

 

Ian Foster of the University of Chicago said that Web precursor Arpanet was initially intended to be a distributed computing network that would share CPU-intensive tasks but instead wound up giving birth to e-mail and FTP.

 

 

 

The Grid may give birth to a global file-swapping network or a members-only citadel for moneyed institutions. But just as no one ten years ago would have conceived of Napster -- not to mention AmIHotOrNot.com -- the future of the Grid is unknown.

 

 

 

An associated DataGrid conference continues until Friday, focusing on a project in which resources from Pan-European research institutions will analyze data generated by a new particle collider being built at Swiss particle-physics lab CERN

 

[/hide]

 

 

 

What do you think?

[Denismage]

It's going to take a really, really, really long time to implement, if they will go with it at all and lets not forget about the money they will have to spend.

[Carl]

It's going to take a really, really, really long time to implement, if they will go with it at all and lets not forget about the money they will have to spend.

 

 

 

 

 

I'd say they'll be given grants, if they can provide and internet like that who wouldn't want it? People would pay extra for it too.

[Will H]

Can someone explain what this 'Grid' supplies over the Internet in simpler terms?

 

 

 

EDIT: Oh right, It's faster. Whoop di doo. Why do they need to rename it?

[Orpheus]

Can someone explain what this 'Grid' supplies over the Internet in simpler terms?

 

 

 

Internets faster than Broadband.

 

 

 

I'm thinking high-speed gaming connection and 2GB/s download speeds.

[Carl]

Can someone explain what this 'Grid' supplies over the Internet in simpler terms?

 

 

 

EDIT: Oh right, It's faster. Whoop di doo. Why do they need to rename it?

 

 

 

Because it's a whole new type, it's not the internet. Developed by different people.

[Will H]

Can someone explain what this 'Grid' supplies over the Internet in simpler terms?

 

 

 

EDIT: Oh right, It's faster. Whoop di doo. Why do they need to rename it?

 

 

 

Because it's a whole new type, it's not the internet. Developed by different people.

 

Still developed by CERN, apparently. And it does the same job (as far as I'm aware), but faster. That doesn't really warrant a name change.

[BlueLancer]

I wouldn't be skeptical of many things concerning computers anymore... Even 8 years ago in 2000, people were laughing at the idea you could connect to the internet wirelessly at any location with multiple megabit speed, or even do that with a telephone. Where are those people now?

 

 

 

The GRID wouldn't just be another internet... It'd enchance data transfer. You wouldn't have "download speeds" since everything in the "grid" would be linked together. Think about moving a file from a folder to another on your computer: The only speed limit is how fast your hard-drive can write data.

 

 

 

Now, think the same thing, except you fetch the movie/mp3/other file directly from another user. There is no bandwidth, the computer would have infrared or other censors for recieving data, you could easily transfer a 1GB file within 10-20 seconds.

[warren211]

HOW DARE THEY TOUCH MAH INTERNETS!!!!!!!

 

 

 

'nuff said. Internet ain't broken, why fix it? faster speed would be ok, but the transition had better not be a sudden one. the last thing we need is *channers spreading new memes at light speed.

[Carl]

HOW DARE THEY TOUCH MAH INTERNETS!!!!!!!

 

 

 

'nuff said. Internet ain't broken, why fix it? faster speed would be ok, but the transition had better not be a sudden one. the last thing we need is *channers spreading new memes at light speed.

 

 

 

They're not fixing it, they're making it bigger and better. Everything is better when it's bigger, just imagine, no more lagging, fast downloads etc. etc. People complain that there internet is slow, things aren't loading good.

 

 

 

This could be the solution to all.

[nomadmike]

Any one remember that Simpson's episode where Homer goes back for a college reunion and one nerd says he invented a program that downloads (adult)movies 1 million times faster :o I thought it was a joke but now... :thumbsup:

[Carl]

Any one remember that Simpson's episode where Homer goes back for a college reunion and one nerd says he invented a program that downloads (adult)movies 1 million times faster :o I thought it was a joke but now... :thumbsup:

 

 

 

Simpsons did it! Simpsons did it! (from the South Park episode)

 

 

 

Lol, as if they're now getting their ideas from a fictional program :roll:

[Giordano]

How can it be as fast as offline? Are the computers phsically connected by cable? Cuz you know, it kinda already is...

 

If the method of transferring data is different, couldn't they put it with the current internet and bloody leave the name as it is? Why make a whole new 'thing' when we can just upgrade the old?

 

 

 

And for the love of god, if this happens, please don't name it 'The Grid'. :cry:

[Lenticular_J]

Name it the Optimus Primial Communicative Awesomeness (OPCA).

 

 

 

Sounds cool.

[ember3579]

Name it the Optimus Primial Communicative Awesomeness (OPCA).

 

 

 

Sounds cool.

 

 

 

-.- *slaps Lent*

 

 

 

Anyway, this seems like it could be very promising. The only 2 big problems would be that 1) that might be a hard thing to implement over large distances with current tech, and 2) privacy might take a hit with the way that I think that this works. Other than that, I want this NOW! :pray: \ : :thumbsup:

[Carl]

Name it the Optimus Primial Communicative Awesomeness (OPCA).

 

 

 

Sounds cool.

 

 

 

-.- *slaps Lent*

 

 

 

Anyway, this seems like it could be very promising. The only 2 big problems would be that 1) that might be a hard thing to implement over large distances with current tech, and 2) privacy might take a hit with the way that I think that this works. Other than that, I want this NOW! :pray: \ : :thumbsup:

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I'd say to put this on a large scale some things will need to be looked into big time.

 

 

 

Buty yes, it looks promising :)

[klankaos]

I must say, I love the sound of it. I mean, imagine having any resource you want, anywhere, at your fingertips with no download time or transfer time. You could transfer hundreds of gigabytes in under a minute. The average internet user might not need it, but think of the advances it could fuel in science where some models and plans and formulas and whatever you can think of are hard to transfer due to bandwidth restrictions. It could be amazing.

 

 

 

And you know, I wouldn't mind playing WoW or AoC at hundreds of FPS either. =)

[RichieMcD]

As we all know the internet is for 3 things, computer games, Wikipedia and porn. The real question is, do we really need porn 10,000 times faster. :lol:

[aquariusman]

To me, the gist of the article is that they're basically trying to make one giant computer by combining as many computers as they can, using the Internet, and then selling that processing power? That seems good in theory, especially since nowadays computers are being built with more RAM/higher CPU speeds than is necessary all the time. That being said, People will also be needing more RAM and higher CPU speeds than they have, so I think you will get at best slightly above average computer processing speeds. The problem with this is that you are just creating a giant computer, and you can basically treat each computer connected to The Grid as a process of that computer. At the same time, each computer acts as a stick of RAM for The Grid. I'm just going to go ahead and assume that the CPU power you contribute will be what you aren't using. This depends too much on everyone on The Grid leaving their computers at an idle most of the time. Not only that, but you will be constantly using your computer at full speed, or at least whatever speed is allowed by your system settings. This could result in overheating more often, and going through parts faster because they are in use so much.

 

 

 

The commercial use needs to be very well implemented to be practical, AKA studies into the average spare processing power of a computer (If it's negative, means that you'd be borrowing processing power). Then, if there is a good average surplus of processing power, (I'm guessing good would be equivalent to adding a 1GB stick of DDR2 RAM to your computer) then it might be profitable. I'd say that 1GB RAM equivalent of extra power would be a reasonable estimate. How to charge for this would be a rate for however many processes that are completed. You get charged whenever your computer reaches it's limit and needs a little extra power to work at the programs best. You could just press (Or click) a button to increase your supply of peer-supplied processing power. When you do not need any extra processing power, and you have some spare juice, you get a credit towards how much you contribute. Again, you could control how much you share, and whether you share period. Implementation is key with this though, along with research. Shared processing power is no good if there is no extra power out there.

 

 

 

I do like the idea of a grid of computers being used for the scientific community. Basically, instead of building a supercomputer, why not rent the spare processing power of a few thousand (Or hundred thousand) to get the job done? We could make some money, and the end-users in the scientific community could save some. The only problem would be security, because you're connecting a content-sensitive computer to the Internet, telling people about, and then connecting to complete strangers, while sending their computer data. Would be quite easy to slip in some misinformation or a virus. This could kind of be like powering a water wheel. Whenever you need it to go faster, you could always divert part of a river to add to the flow. Of course, you have to make sure the water you're getting isn't full of debris, or else that water wheel of yours is in for some trouble.

[Carl]

To me, the gist of the article is that they're basically trying to make one giant computer by combining as many computers as they can, using the Internet, and then selling that processing power? That seems good in theory, especially since nowadays computers are being built with more RAM/higher CPU speeds than is necessary all the time. That being said, People will also be needing more RAM and higher CPU speeds than they have, so I think you will get at best slightly above average computer processing speeds. The problem with this is that you are just creating a giant computer, and you can basically treat each computer connected to The Grid as a process of that computer. At the same time, each computer acts as a stick of RAM for The Grid. I'm just going to go ahead and assume that the CPU power you contribute will be what you aren't using. This depends too much on everyone on The Grid leaving their computers at an idle most of the time. Not only that, but you will be constantly using your computer at full speed, or at least whatever speed is allowed by your system settings. This could result in overheating more often, and going through parts faster because they are in use so much.

 

 

 

The commercial use needs to be very well implemented to be practical, AKA studies into the average spare processing power of a computer (If it's negative, means that you'd be borrowing processing power). Then, if there is a good average surplus of processing power, (I'm guessing good would be equivalent to adding a 1GB stick of DDR2 RAM to your computer) then it might be profitable. I'd say that 1GB RAM equivalent of extra power would be a reasonable estimate. How to charge for this would be a rate for however many processes that are completed. You get charged whenever your computer reaches it's limit and needs a little extra power to work at the programs best. You could just press (Or click) a button to increase your supply of peer-supplied processing power. When you do not need any extra processing power, and you have some spare juice, you get a credit towards how much you contribute. Again, you could control how much you share, and whether you share period. Implementation is key with this though, along with research. Shared processing power is no good if there is no extra power out there.

 

 

 

I do like the idea of a grid of computers being used for the scientific community. Basically, instead of building a supercomputer, why not rent the spare processing power of a few thousand (Or hundred thousand) to get the job done? We could make some money, and the end-users in the scientific community could save some. The only problem would be security, because you're connecting a content-sensitive computer to the Internet, telling people about, and then connecting to complete strangers, while sending their computer data. Would be quite easy to slip in some misinformation or a virus. This could kind of be like powering a water wheel. Whenever you need it to go faster, you could always divert part of a river to add to the flow. Of course, you have to make sure the water you're getting isn't full of debris, or else that water wheel of yours is in for some trouble.

0

 

 

 

Yes. it seems The Grid does contain a few problems, none which would be too hard for a team of 400+ scientists to work out, but still.

 

 

 

I do believe PlayStation3 has some "power sharing" thing too.

 

If you were to sign up with this advert that they had, some of your playstations power would be transfered over seas to power some company. I'm not sure of the full details but it was something like that.

 

 

 

People were getting major problems as a result of this so most people stopped sharing.

[Ermy]

Load up your rifles the machines are coming, they will use the grid communicate, they have already mastered bands:

 

 

 

c2JChnwv2Ws

[Carl]

Lol Ermin66, that ones funny. Wait till we're doing there dirty work and not the opposite way around >.>

 

 

 

Good times.. good times.

[klankaos]

Haha, nice one, Ermin. Gotta love those new YouTube tags, right? phpBB3 is pretty awesome =)