Breastfeeding

[issy2]

The quality of the restaurant makes no difference to the fact that she needs to feed her baby. It's totally natural, not disgusting. Lol it's like something that was on mock the week last night... Sure maybe she should have gone to the bathroom or something, but as long as she wasn't trying to draw attention/reveal herself I really don't see the problem. And anyway, you were the one looking...

 

 

 

Actually you know, I can see exactly what you mean, breastfeeding in public, but what I'm confused about is why you're making a bigger deal out of the quality of the restaurant than the actual breastfeeding. I just don't see why it makes any difference, why wouldn't you have reacted the same in a mcdonalds?

[rushrock]

I find the fact that it's natural completely irrelevant. There are many things that are natural, but that doesn't mean we should do all of them. Being natural is not a justification. If it was, having sex in public would be legal.

 

 

 

To Goddess: After you see it once, you can't unsee it. Sure, you could look away, but you'll still know it is happening really close to you when you're trying to eat. So it all comes down to who should leave - the mother or the offended person. Of course you'll say the offended person, and I'll say the mother.

 

I completely disagree. Sex is totally different. Sex, for one thing, isn't required (there are arguments about this but they are separate), and even if you disagree with this, it's competely different from feeding a baby. A baby needs to eat. Many things are natural, and I believe that breastfeeding is at one of the most basic levels that it should be allowed. You are to look away and say to yourself, "Oh, she's just feeding her baby. Babies need to eat." Now, what, you say that it's still in your head? That's pretty disturbing that you couldn't just accept the fact that the baby is eating and move on.

[Zierro]

It's a restaurant, it's pretty freakin obvious that people are going to eat, a hell of a lot easier to tell than the possibility of breastfeeding. Was it worth making an argument for that? lol

 

 

 

The point is, the only people that should face the wall would be the ones who would react badly to seeing breastfeeding. We can't place every single person in a corner (how many corners are there?). That being said, I don't know how it's easier to tell if someone will not like seeing breastfeeding than to tell if a mother might be breastfeeding (you'll see a young baby with her - the people who have the bad reaction could be anybody).

 

 

 

You see, you changed your point from saying people that feel disgusted should be secluded into everyone should be secluded. Doesn't make logical sense.

 

 

 

Speaking of "highly opinionated" A few days ago you and I agreed to different views and dropped the subject. Then a few days later you came to express the very same ones and started the whole debate again. Very hypocritical for someone preaching "social etiquette" as his main argument. What you're so highly fighting to prove and what you do are two totally different things.

 

 

 

You even admitted yourself that the whole thing was a misunderstanding via PM. Why you bring this up when it's not even relevant at all is beyond me. Debate the topic - not the people. I doubt you would like it if I posted how you called me a "[bleep]er" on PM... Oops I just did. :oops: And I don't care if that makes me a hypocrite - you've already labeled me as one, plus you were the first to start throwing flames around - not me. See the irony?

 

 

 

No offense but I'm not going to pay great amounts of attention to 2 board trolls who follow you around like a bad smell to agree with you.

 

 

 

Because we are in agreement that means they are my minions? Wow, talk about flawed logic. You agreed with me a few times before, so according to your own logic, you "follow me around like a bad smell" too.

 

 

 

I completely disagree. Sex is totally different. Sex, for one thing, isn't required (there are arguments about this but they are separate), and even if you disagree with this, it's competely different from feeding a baby. A baby needs to eat. Many things are natural, and I believe that breastfeeding is at one of the most basic levels that it should be allowed. You are to look away and say to yourself, "Oh, she's just feeding her baby. Babies need to eat." Now, what, you say that it's still in your head? That's pretty disturbing that you couldn't just accept the fact that the baby is eating and move on.

 

 

 

Yes, because sex is the most extreme. Instead, I could replace "sex" with verbs such as picking your nose, farting, belching, etc. My point is that naturality is not a justification.

[rushrock]

Yes, because sex is the most extreme. Instead, I could replace "sex" with verbs such as picking your nose, farting, belching, etc. My point is that naturality is not a justification.

 

Just because they're natural doesn't mean you classify everything as "natural" and therefore treat every one of them the same. In some ways, different for the different types of actions, that might be the case, like, for example, the right to do them in private. That shouldn't be the case with breastfeeding. That's my point.

[Zierro]

That shouldn't be the case with breastfeeding. That's my point.

 

 

 

It should be the case with breastfeeding. (No I'm not really that thick - merely pointing out that this is a two-way street.)

 

 

 

Sounds like the reason breastfeeding allowed is because... well erm just because it is. I've already debunked the naturality thing, but I'm open to hearing about other reasons why it should be allowed. So, what dictates whether it should or should not be allowed?

[rushrock]

nvm

[Zierro]

I've already debunked the naturality thing

 

You have not. :lol:

 

 

 

It is a two way street, but all you're doing is disagreeing with me. Do you want to continue the discussion?

 

 

 

IF:

 

 

 

Breastfeeding = Legal (because->) natural

 

 

 

Then that should mean:

 

 

 

Sex = Legal (because-->) natural

 

 

 

Maybe you missed it. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. After all, I haven't read this entire thread either. :

[rushrock]

As I said in PM, I misunderstood you. That was entirely my fault, I apologize.

 

 

 

And I still think that your norms shouldn't be the absolute answer. Some may not accept that, some may accept that, but in the sense and nature of the action of breastfeeding, I personally believe that it more than qualifies a right to be in public places.

[Zierro]

And I still think that your norms shouldn't be the absolute answer. Some may not accept that, some may accept that, but in the sense and nature of the action of breastfeeding, I personally believe that it more than qualifies a right to be in public places.

 

 

 

Then we are more than less agreeing to disagree. I see no problem with that. Neither of us are capable of proving how things should be done any further. I doubt any amount of logical reasoning would help change our minds - so now it just boils down to personal feelings.

 

 

 

As for the PM, no hard feelings. It's the internet. Misinterpretations happen. :P

[Robert_de_Sable]

You felt sick about a perfectly natural thing and something hospitals encourage mothers to help their baby get the nutrition they need?? Don't be coming near my neighbourhood anytime soon because I tell you what if my baby is hungry, I'm going to shove my shirt up and feed my bloody son whether you feel sick or not. Turn around or eat somewhere else if you have a problem with it!

 

 

 

Breastfeeding in public is fine, but doing it in a place where people are trying to enjoy a dinner? Come on, at least take it to the bathroom or something please.

 

 

 

My son isn't an animal and he's going to eat the same time as we do. If you have a problem with that, build a bridge and get over it sunshine. I could really care less about what you're trying to eat. In the bathroom? Yeah real sanitary, smart thinking there :roll:

 

 

 

And to be quite frank with anyone who has a problem with it, don't be coming near me anytime soon because if my son is hungry, there's going to be boobs in your face!! Take a picture and maybe it will last longer :D

 

Let's from here on out assume that I cannot eat when I see this [breastfeeding]. What makes you feeding your baby so much more important than my eating needs? And what if I find it disgusting? Also, what the hell are you afraid of in the washroom in terms of sanitation?? Legally, it has to be pretty goddamn clean.

[darkace21]

You felt sick about a perfectly natural thing and something hospitals encourage mothers to help their baby get the nutrition they need?? Don't be coming near my neighbourhood anytime soon because I tell you what if my baby is hungry, I'm going to shove my shirt up and feed my bloody son whether you feel sick or not. Turn around or eat somewhere else if you have a problem with it!

 

 

 

Breastfeeding in public is fine, but doing it in a place where people are trying to enjoy a dinner? Come on, at least take it to the bathroom or something please.

 

 

 

My son isn't an animal and he's going to eat the same time as we do. If you have a problem with that, build a bridge and get over it sunshine. I could really care less about what you're trying to eat. In the bathroom? Yeah real sanitary, smart thinking there :roll:

 

 

 

And to be quite frank with anyone who has a problem with it, don't be coming near me anytime soon because if my son is hungry, there's going to be boobs in your face!! Take a picture and maybe it will last longer :D

 

Let's from here on out assume that I cannot eat when I see this [breastfeeding]. What makes you feeding your baby so much more important than my eating needs? And what if I find it disgusting? Also, what the hell are you afraid of in the washroom in terms of sanitation?? Legally, it has to be pretty goddamn clean.

 

Not all places follow the sanitation code very well. There are resturants that look nice from the outside, and the food is good, but once you get in the bathroom, Look out.

[Zierro]

I find this quite funny. I asked both my parents and my brother if they think breastfeeding should be allowed in a restaurant. All of them said no. They said that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

 

 

 

Yes, it is natural. But so are many things that people find nasty. If there should be no privacy when dealing with natural things, then why are there separate stalls in a bathroom? Shouldn't a bathroom just be a big room with lots of toilet seats and no stalls?

[issy2]

I find this quite funny. I asked both my parents and my brother if they think breastfeeding should be allowed in a restaurant. All of them said no. They said that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

 

 

 

Yes, it is natural. But so are many things that people find nasty. If there should be no privacy when dealing with natural things, then why are there separate stalls in a bathroom? Shouldn't a bathroom just be a big room with lots of toilet seats and no stalls?

 

 

 

I think there may be an issue with how much privacy people want. The fact is, I (and, I assume, most people) wouldn't be 100% happy sharing a communal/open toilet with others - but the baby doesn't exactly care who's watching, and as long as the mother is happy to feed them in a public place, they are choosing to do that... you don't have to watch.

[Zierro]

I think there may be an issue with how much privacy people want. The fact is, I (and, I assume, most people) wouldn't be 100% happy sharing a communal/open toilet with others - but the baby doesn't exactly care who's watching, and as long as the mother is happy to feed them in a public place, they are choosing to do that... you don't have to watch.

 

 

 

You "don't have to watch" people having sex in public either. But does that really stop the issue at hand? Not at all. People will still have the first glimpse of it, and they can't unsee it.

[issy2]

I think there may be an issue with how much privacy people want. The fact is, I (and, I assume, most people) wouldn't be 100% happy sharing a communal/open toilet with others - but the baby doesn't exactly care who's watching, and as long as the mother is happy to feed them in a public place, they are choosing to do that... you don't have to watch.

 

 

 

You "don't have to watch" people having sex in public either. But does that really stop the issue at hand? Not at all. People will still have the first glimpse of it, and they can't unsee it.

 

 

 

But, honestly - and I'm not trying to criticise anyone - but what kind of person is disgusted by breastfeeding? You probably spent the first few months of your life doing it. How do you think you would have felt, a little hungry baby who wants to be fed? What's unnatural or disgusting about that? Nothing. How do you think a mother would feel, being told she has to leave a room or breastfeed only in private? Most women are pretty discreet about not 'exposing' themselves, it's not like they're going to be sitting there topless or anything.

[Zierro]

But, honestly - and I'm not trying to criticise anyone - but what kind of person is disgusted by breastfeeding? You probably spent the first few months of your life doing it. How do you think you would have felt, a little hungry baby who wants to be fed? What's unnatural or disgusting about that? Nothing. How do you think a mother would feel, being told she has to leave a room or breastfeed only in private? Most women are pretty discreet about not 'exposing' themselves, it's not like they're going to be sitting there topless or anything.

 

 

 

What's so nasty about using the bathroom? We do it everyday, so by your reasoning we shouldn't be bothered by watching other people go to the bathroom.

 

 

 

And honestly, I wouldn't have a problem if a mother covered it up successfully. The only thing I'm arguing is that they shouldn't do it in a restaurant all proud and naked. If you covered yourself, it would be a whole different story - but as the topic starter says the lady failed at trying to do so - therefore he saw and lost his appetite.

 

 

 

You see, I don't care if a woman breastfeeds. What I do care about is empathy towards others. There are plenty of ways for a mother not to attract attention - but some don't feel they have to - that is lack of empathy. Like I said, I watch South Park and a lot of other nasty shows, but that doesn't mean I don't respect the fact that others may find it inappropriate. It's intolerance towards lack of empathy - not intolerance to breastfeeding in general.

[Abyssalwhip]

Can the women (and supporters of breastfeeding in public in this thread) realize WE ARE NOT TELLING YOU NOT TO DO IT JUST COVER UP/DO IT PRIVATELY, also bottles exist too, so stop with the whole "poor innocent baby must be fed now or it will die" thing.

[issy2]

But, honestly - and I'm not trying to criticise anyone - but what kind of person is disgusted by breastfeeding? You probably spent the first few months of your life doing it. How do you think you would have felt, a little hungry baby who wants to be fed? What's unnatural or disgusting about that? Nothing. How do you think a mother would feel, being told she has to leave a room or breastfeed only in private? Most women are pretty discreet about not 'exposing' themselves, it's not like they're going to be sitting there topless or anything.

 

 

 

What's so nasty about using the bathroom? We do it everyday, so by your reasoning we shouldn't be bothered by watching other people go to the bathroom.

 

 

 

And honestly, I wouldn't have a problem if a mother covered it up successfully. The only thing I'm arguing is that they shouldn't do it in a restaurant all proud and naked. If you covered yourself, it would be a whole different story - but as the topic starter says the lady failed at trying to do so - therefore he saw and lost his appetite.

 

 

 

You see, I don't care if a woman breastfeeds. What I do care about is empathy towards others. There are plenty of ways for a mother not to attract attention - but some don't feel they have to - that is lack of empathy. Like I said, I watch South Park and a lot of other nasty shows, but that doesn't mean I don't respect the fact that others may find it inappropriate. It's intolerance towards lack of empathy - not intolerance to breastfeeding in general.

 

 

 

Yes, I totally accept that you're right, by my reasoning my someone shouldn't be disgusted by watching someone else go to the bathroom. But what I was saying was, if I was going to the bathroom I wouldn't want others watching me, regardless of whether or not they would be embarrassed.

 

 

 

And that woman in the restaurant is really a one-off... women in general are pretty discreet. Maybe she should have gone to the bathroom if she couldn't be discreet enough, but really it's only a baby being fed!

 

 

 

I still don't get the big deal...

 

 

 

What is so gross about a baby sucking on a [bleep]? God, the obsession with sex and sexuality is mind boggling.

 

 

 

Kinda sums up how I feel.

[BlueLancer]

I still don't get the big deal...

 

 

 

What is so gross about a baby sucking on a [bleep]? God, the obsession with sex and sexuality is mind boggling.

 

 

 

I see it more and more as a purely american (as in USA) phenomenon out of all western countries. It has poisoned society down to the bone and sex has become some kind of twisted or 'dirty' thing (even though breastfeeding has NOTHING to do with sex)

 

 

 

Go to France for example. I can't say I've lived there, but having spent multiple month at my cousin's in Strasbourg, you can see women in parks, buses, restaurants, etc... Breastfeeding a child. It's natural just as it would be feeding him/her from a bottle. It's not a dirty or bad thing.

 

 

 

Not even conservative catholic European countries like Spain/Italy hold it in bad regard, if anything, it's even more natural there than in France/other european countries, everyone does it in public.

 

 

 

What might be the real issue is the school of thought that "everyone should mind their own business", down to a cancerous degree in american society, which makes it a taboo or unacceptable to breastfeed in public (I still don't understand what kind of person would be offended by it or even give a second thought even in a restaurant, but each to their own). God forbid some moron thinks feeding a child is "offending public nudity" and sues the mother in a court of law... Anything's possible these days though, wouldn't be surprised.

[Zierro]

Differing cultures have differing etiquettes. In Japan, there is a restaurant where you have sex with an animal and then eat it. In other countries, it is perfectly acceptable to walk around nude in public. In some countries, it's okay to marry a girl who hasn't even reached adulthood. If breastfeeding should be alright in public restaurants because of the fact that we see it around the world, then shouldn't all of those examples I stated be legal here as well?

[Abyssalwhip]

Differing cultures have differing etiquettes. In Japan, there is a restaurant where you have sex with an animal and then eat it. In other countries, it is perfectly acceptable to walk around nude in public. In some countries, it's okay to marry a girl who hasn't even reached adulthood. If breastfeeding should be alright in public restaurants because of the fact that we see it around the world, then shouldn't all of those examples I stated be legal here as well?

 

What the hell?

[issy2]

Differing cultures have differing etiquettes. In Japan, there is a restaurant where you have sex with an animal and then eat it. In other countries, it is perfectly acceptable to walk around nude in public. In some countries, it's okay to marry a girl who hasn't even reached adulthood. If breastfeeding should be alright in public restaurants because of the fact that we see it around the world, then shouldn't all of those examples I stated be legal here as well?[/quote]

 

 

 

Westerners on the whole wouldn't want to walk around naked anyway, so...

 

 

 

To be honest I think we're getting way out of perspective. You can always say "Breastfeeding is natural, therefore we should be able to use toilets/have sex in public" but in practice they are totally different things. Breastfeeding - a child needs to be fed, in public if necessary. Don't look if you want to see - it's pretty to miss, not like someone strolling around nude. I'm not trying to avoid answering you but, jeez, it's only breastfeeding. It's not exactly a big deal...

 

 

 

Just found this on the internet...

 

During 2003-2004, a Hampshire man named Stephen Gough, who became known as The Naked Rambler, put the UK law to the test by attempting to walk nude from Land's End, Cornwall, to John O'Groats, in Scotland. It took him seven months to complete the 900-mile walk - much of that time spent in jail. He was arrested 14 times and served two short jail sentences. He tried to repeat the walk with a companion in 2005, was arrested for a breach of the peace and spent two weeks in jail in Scotland. The local sheriff said, as Gough appeared in court naked, "I have no doubt in my mind that walking naked through a Scottish town and along a busy road is not something which the Scottish public should be expected to deal with."

[Zierro]

Westerners on the whole wouldn't want to walk around naked anyway, so...

 

 

 

What makes you say that? I'm pretty sure some people would. It's illegal though so that's why you don't see it.

 

 

 

Breastfeeding - a child needs to be fed, in public if necessary.

 

 

 

People need to use the bathroom too. By the way, what is your definition of "necessary"? I don't think there are that many excuses as to why a mother can't just use a shawl or walk a few steps to take it somewhere else.

 

 

 

Don't look if you want to see - it's pretty to miss, not like someone strolling around nude.

 

 

 

The thing is, this whole thread wouldn't exist if that were true. Obviously, someone did see and he didn't want to.

 

 

 

I'm not trying to avoid answering you but, jeez, it's only breastfeeding. It's not exactly a big deal...

 

 

 

It all stems down to opinions. You say it's not a big deal - some say it is.

[issy2]

Westerners on the whole wouldn't want to walk around naked anyway, so...

 

 

 

What makes you say that? I'm pretty sure some people would. It's illegal though so that's why you don't see it.

 

 

 

Breastfeeding - a child needs to be fed, in public if necessary.

 

 

 

People need to use the bathroom too. By the way, what is your definition of "necessary"? I don't think there are that many excuses as to why a mother can't just use a shawl or walk a few steps to take it somewhere else.

 

 

 

Don't look if you want to see - it's pretty to miss, not like someone strolling around nude.

 

 

 

The thing is, this whole thread wouldn't exist if that were true. Obviously, someone did see and he didn't want to.

 

 

 

I'm not trying to avoid answering you but, jeez, it's only breastfeeding. It's not exactly a big deal...

 

 

 

It all stems down to opinions. You say it's not a big deal - some say it is.

 

 

 

Basically what I'm trying to say is (and sorry if this kinda ruins the idea of a debate) get over it. At worst, you see a body part you didn't want to see. It's not exactly going to happen very often - it's not like streets are full of mothers wandering around breastfeeding babies - and you especially need to get over it if it puts you off your food.

[Nadril]

The whole arguement of "well if breastfeeding is legal in public places then sex should be too" is ridiculous.

 

 

 

A baby needs to eat and, unlike adults, they don't want to wait. Having to force a kid to use a bottle takes extra money and time out of the mothers life and is unnecessary because a few prude people don't like it.

 

 

 

Sex, on the other hand, can wait. You don't need to [bleep] RIGHT THEN AND THERE and you can wait.

 

 

 

Going to the bathroom, well, if a person could just squat down and take a [cabbage] anywhere it would be highly unsanitary (not to mention you can't avoid the smell).

 

 

 

 

 

I swear, some of these strawman arguments are horrible. Breastfeeding a baby does not hurt you, and the mother is covered up anyways.