Drop it. It never hit the ground -Philosophy-

[Lenin64]

I think I see what's going on. I just barely skimmed the other posts, so this may have already been established.

 

 

 

Basically, take a distance (4ft) between two objects. Then go half the distance, now it's 2ft. Half again, 1ft, and keep going. But you never actually reach the object, because 0 isn't half of anything. Can't do it with real life things, though.

 

 

 

Either I hit it, or am waaaaay off the mark. But that's what I got from it.

 

The infinite series (1/2) + (1/4) + (1/8)... = 1 so it does in fact touch because it converges to 1.

 

But it isn't adding the distances together. It's basically just dividing by 2 every time. 1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, but never will reach exactly 0.

[Woodcut Lvr]

i'd have to say that physics destroys this in every way.

 

 

 

Not quite. This is a common philosophical paradox...Zeno? yeah. Zeno's paradox: If you a shoot an arrow at a target, it never really hits the target. The arrow has to go halfway right? And then halfway again? And then halfway again correct? It keeps goin halfway until infinity (meaning it never hits the ground)

 

 

 

There actually might be a mathematical theorem that disproves this, but regardless, it's interesting. I'd be really impressed if you thought of this on your own.

 

 

 

I wish I did. :D

[Darksavior69]

I think I see what's going on. I just barely skimmed the other posts, so this may have already been established.

 

 

 

Basically, take a distance (4ft) between two objects. Then go half the distance, now it's 2ft. Half again, 1ft, and keep going. But you never actually reach the object, because 0 isn't half of anything. Can't do it with real life things, though.

 

 

 

Either I hit it, or am waaaaay off the mark. But that's what I got from it.

 

The infinite series (1/2) + (1/4) + (1/8)... = 1 so it does in fact touch because it converges to 1.

 

But it isn't adding the distances together. It's basically just dividing by 2 every time. 1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, but never will reach exactly 0.

 

If the infinite series equals 1 (which it does), then subtracting that infinite series from 1 will equal zero.

[Da Pirates]

Pencils can float?

[Woodcut Lvr]

Pencils can float?

 

 

 

You didn't read it.

[warren211]

It sounds like a cool philosophy, but...

 

 

 

this would mean everything in our universe is impossible to truly accomplish. typing? there's an infinite distance between the Q and W key if you keep dividing by 2. Walking? again, there's an infinite distance that must be conquered between the two steps you take if you divide by two. I mean... does this philosophy make infinity a tangible number?

[Mischlings]

Zeno strikes again.

 

 

 

One part of my mind tells me this: The pencil will fall until the electromagnetic force between the electrons in the pencil and the electrons in the floor is greater than the force of gravity. As the force is inversely proportional to the square of the distance (Force=kq1q2/r^2), the distance between the two would never be 0, as that would create an infinite force, and therefore the two would never really touch.

 

 

 

The pencil travels a certain distance. Let's say that it travels half the distance. Then it travels 1/4th. Then 1/8th. 1/2+1/4+1/8+1/16+...=1. That fact is incontrovertible once you understand the math behind it. According to the simpler math, the two would never touch.

 

 

 

I won't touch on the calculus here, as I have yet to write it down to think it out, yet as far as I can tell at this moment, the two never actually would touch. The distance between the two is so small as to be insignificant for most purposes, but the two aren't "touching".

[Rebdragon]

Stop acting like you get infinity.

[Dalcyte]

I think I see what's going on. I just barely skimmed the other posts, so this may have already been established.

 

 

 

Basically, take a distance (4ft) between two objects. Then go half the distance, now it's 2ft. Half again, 1ft, and keep going. But you never actually reach the object, because 0 isn't half of anything. Can't do it with real life things, though.

 

 

 

Either I hit it, or am waaaaay off the mark. But that's what I got from it.

 

The infinite series (1/2) + (1/4) + (1/8)... = 1 so it does in fact touch because it converges to 1.

 

 

 

But theoretically the series will go on forever, so it can't really be added up totally

[Darksavior69]

I think I see what's going on. I just barely skimmed the other posts, so this may have already been established.

 

 

 

Basically, take a distance (4ft) between two objects. Then go half the distance, now it's 2ft. Half again, 1ft, and keep going. But you never actually reach the object, because 0 isn't half of anything. Can't do it with real life things, though.

 

 

 

Either I hit it, or am waaaaay off the mark. But that's what I got from it.

 

The infinite series (1/2) + (1/4) + (1/8)... = 1 so it does in fact touch because it converges to 1.

 

 

 

But theoretically the series will go on forever, so it can't really be added up totally

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_series

[Lateralus]

This is maths, not philosophy. The pencil touches the floor, but it goes through a theoretically infinite number of points before it does so.

[myshadow7]

Lateralus, excellent choice in music.

 

 

 

 

 

edit: soo. I just skipped to this thread because of lateralus but anyway, yea.

 

 

 

Now we have a block of time, with our event in a timeline. Because time is infinite, let's divide it.

 

 

 

firstly, the time you chose is not infinite. it is a set amount of time, between start and finish. anyway.

 

 

 

The pencil drops at the same speed through time as anything else. It doesn't go the speed of "1/2 of the distance remaining". It goes "this distance/unit of time"

 

 

 

for example, we can create a new unit. 4feetfallingpencil/severalseconds. It took the pencil one unit of 4ftfp/ss.

 

 

 

If you continuously devide by 2, it will never reach it's destination. but likewise, knowing that it did reach it's destination from observing, we can say that it's method of traveling through space/time is not to divide by two.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

or something.

[xSxqPowerx]

Why should we be surprised that if something goes halfway (NOT all of the way...) that it never reaches it's destination?

[Lenin64]

I don't see why people are arguing. It's a good-on-paper-not-practice thing, like Operation Iraqi Freedom. Obviously the objects hit, but it would appear through this that they don't.

[Happysniff]

lol wut I dun get it :o

 

 

 

o wait after reading lenin he has enlightened me I gets it now

[Da Pirates]

lol wut I dun get it :o

 

 

 

o wait after reading lenin he has enlightened me I gets it now

 

 

 

 

 

Why haven't youu been banned yet? I mean, seriously, your last like 15 posts have all had the grammar of a 3 year old, and I sense you're doing this on purpose.

 

 

 

YOU'RE NOT FUNNY.

[Wizz]

Are you saying we stop or slow down time?

[GordanFreeman]

I think that what you're forgetting is that math is not necessarily always true, or always a reality. The pencil touching the ground after I've dropped it is reality, mathematics are ideas that humans have created to try and define these occurences, and although they've done a damn good job, there are still flaws.

[nine naked men]

lol wut I dun get it :o

 

 

 

o wait after reading lenin he has enlightened me I gets it now

 

 

 

 

 

Why haven't youu been banned yet? I mean, seriously, your last like 15 posts have all had the grammar of a 3 year old, and I sense you're doing this on purpose.

 

 

 

YOU'RE NOT FUNNY.

 

 

 

Woah... time paradox.

 

 

 

OT - I get it, but it doesn't really work that way in real life, because it will hit the ground. Unless you've screwed with something big.

[warri0r45]

I think that what you're forgetting is that math is not necessarily always true, or always a reality. The pencil touching the ground after I've dropped it is reality, mathematics are ideas that humans have created to try and define these occurences, and although they've done a damn good job, there are still flaws.

 

 

 

Exactly. Math is a way to quantify what we naturally experience. The pencil didn't not hit the ground becuase we can divide an element of time in half, then in half again, etc, etc, etc (sorry for the double negative).

[myshadow7]

But the true question here is

 

 

 

why are we dividing by two?

 

 

 

let's divide by one.

 

 

 

same logical reasoning can be used, except this time the pencil does hit the floor.

[urbestfreind]

I've argued this many times with various teachers and adults, and many of them disagree with me, although two of my science teachers and my physics teacher agreed, which gave me more confidence in them as teachers.

 

 

 

For most intents and purposes, the object hit the floor and bounced back, but I believe it's true that no two objects are ever touching, but are separated by a thin layer of..err..something..can't remember, but I read it somewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

myshadow7, we divide by 2 because...well, I don't feel like explaining it fully...but... If you divide by one, the pencil doesn't hit the floor, it stays suspended in space, because 1 foot divided by 1 is 1 foot. 1285 meters divided by 1 is 1285 meters...It wouldn't move up or down. Hence you use 2.

[myshadow7]

no

 

 

 

1 foot / 1 foot = 1

 

 

 

the "foot" (feet) cancel out.

 

 

 

we can divide by one because "1" referes to the whole distance

 

 

 

so how many times did the pencil fall X distance, lets say 4 ft. it fell once.

 

 

 

 

 

and regarding that the two objects can never really "touch"...

 

they touch in the sense how everything else touches.

 

 

 

if your going to hold by this definition, nothing actually touches except for subatomic particles in the nucleus. I forget if they're strong or weak atomic forces.

[dusqi]

Based on my very limited understanding of physics, ultimately the universe is limited by the smallest quantum unit of distance. So, there is no infinity in terms of the potential positions of atoms, so eventually dividing by two does get to 0.

 

 

 

A similar thought experiment is the fly stopping a train experiment. A fly can momentarily stop a train, even one going at 100mph. When the fly hits the train, the fly's motion slows down, until it bounces back. But in order to bounce back, at some point the fly has to be going at 0mph. That means that it has stopped the train for an infinitesimally short amount of time.

[put2death]

I have a slight understanding of what he means. After you keep thinking you get it. Problem is, once you start thinking deeper and deeper your head hurts... you wonder why we are here... and then contemplate suicide to see what happens after death.

 

 

 

Well, you see where I am going.