Iraq war, your opinions?

[Ginger_Warrior]

You are really in the minority of saying the surge hasn't worked. I think it's probably just you Nancy Pelosi, code pink, and Jack "first to call for retreat, the troops are murderer's, now gimmie a bribe" Murtha.

 

There has been a reduction in violence. There is little evidence to suggest this is due to the surge. You're just taking two coincidents and presuming they have some sort of link.

 

 

 

A rise of living standards, economic opportunies and improved infrastructure will also reduce violence in a country as turmoltuous as Iraq.

 

 

 

Your presumption is cast further into doubt by the fact Basra has had a reduction in violence, and we haven't had a surge.

 

 

 

edit: We don't care about Africa? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4751751.stm

 

Thats in addition to the 65 billion in aid we've already approved.

 

That was 2 years ago. Has anything changed since? No.

 

 

 

What Darfur needs is international involvement to bring about a resolution to stop the conflict, not some promise of food aid. The food won't go very far when they're gonna be shot in the head for little reason anyway.

[Kriegsmier]

Hmm...wasn't the mission to find WMD? No?

 

 

 

What was it then? Oh, right, to take Saddam out of power.

 

 

 

What? That wasn't the mission either? Was it to establish a government that can operate on its own and when they tell us to leave we will?

 

 

 

Oh. No? Still not right? Damn, here I was thinking those were our missions that have changed once each one has been completed...now I know our mission was to reduce violence in the Middle East, and not give a [bleep] about Zimbabwe or Darfur. Thanks.

 

 

 

edit: ... the surge was a six month plan that took 18 months, and we still haven't seen the political reconciliation that was promised as part of it. Sure, violence is down appreciably, but even Maliki says that is more of a result of other factors, not our troop surge.

 

 

 

What else are we supposed to do once a mission is completed? Kick dirt around until we grow beards? You move on....no [cabbage].

 

 

 

Most of you don't understand the kind of war we are fighting here. Its not a blitzkrieg WWI or WWII type of war. Its house to house, street to street urban combat zone where the local fighters blend in with the surrounding people. Its a perfect example, in this sense to the Vietcong in Vietnam. You don't know who you are fighting on a daily basis, the enemy isn't sitting out there in the open. Its gun and run, they shoot at you and run. Its a daily grind of kicking in doors and getting hit by IEDs. IEDs are a whole other topic, its amazing what kind of [cabbage] you see them made out of. It would blow your mind.....literally and figuratively. Its a endless battle. Most of you think just because we are the strongest military power out there and we have all these huge Abrams tanks that we can just go wreck [cabbage]. I wish that were true. It all comes down to the foot patrol of a human soldier. While we are fighting house to house and street to street we have to build alliances to the locals, gain their trust even though they might be the ones blowing us up tomorrow, and give aid. Troop surge or not, this is a very tough job. You can have all the troops in the military over there but its still going to be a long hard, tedious task.

 

 

 

Its working, but at a slow pace because of that ^.

[jackattack]

Yes Ginger I'm sure it was economic opportunities and not 30,000 U.S. troops that brought down violence.

[dragoonson]

Yes Ginger I'm sure it was economic opportunities and not 30,000 U.S. troops that brought down violence.

 

 

 

War decreases violence?

 

 

 

Come on guys lets start a few gang wars,our violence levels will be lower than the stock market!

[magekillr]

That's fantastic Krieg, so why are we there? 15/18 benchmarks completed right? That's like a B average. Bush was a C student, he should be happy. Can our men and women come home now?

[Ginger_Warrior]

Yes Ginger I'm sure it was economic opportunities and not 30,000 U.S. troops that brought down violence.

 

You responded to my perfectly valid point by sarcastically replying exactly what I said? :?

[jackattack]

At Yale.

 

 

 

Our troops can come home if you want civil war in Iraq and for al qaida to have a new safe spot from which to plan new attacks.

[jackattack]

Yes Ginger I'm sure it was economic opportunities and not 30,000 U.S. troops that brought down violence.

 

You responded to my perfectly valid point by sarcastically replying exactly what I said? :?

 

 

 

Violence is only down in Basra because the mehdi army has nothing to shoot at and any terrorists there have gone to other provinces. Withdrawing only gives you situations like we had a few months ago.

[magekillr]

At Yale.

 

 

 

Our troops can come home if you want civil war in Iraq and for al qaida to have a new safe spot from which to plan new attacks.

 

 

 

Even worse. Ivy League private colleges are known to have their grades inflated.

 

 

 

They have a safe spot in Pakistan and Afghanistan right now.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Our troops can come home if you want civil war in Iraq and for al qaida to have a new safe spot from which to plan new attacks.

 

al-Qaeda are in Pakistan but you don't have any troops there.

[jackattack]

So San Jose state would have been better?

 

 

 

And they are still being fought in Afghanistan. Thats one thing I'll give Obama credit on. He said he would go into Pakistan and get Bin Laden.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Why it so important to you to get Bin Laden? Someone else will just take over.

 

 

 

Fighting on three fronts would be a logistical nightmare, not to mention it would cost you more money than it already is.

[jackattack]

Not invade Pakistan. Why would we do that? They're our ally.

[Lenticular_J]

Actually, Obama said he'd thought of war with Pakistan in an interview once. I'm hoping he's changed his mind since then, it was a few years ago.

[RichieMcD]

Not invade Pakistan. Why would we do that? They're our ally.

 

 

 

People are still going to be pissed off when the American army goes through Pakistan looking for Osama. Why even bother going after Osama anyway, as soon as he's captured another person will step into his place and just plan more attacks against America and it's allies especially after you execute him like you did to Saddam pissing them off even more. It's a much smarter idea to target the roots (Al-Qaeda training camps) than just trim the leaves (going for high ranking figures) of the tree (Al-Qaeda)

[Kriegsmier]

That's fantastic Krieg, so why are we there? 15/18 benchmarks completed right? That's like a B average. Bush was a C student, he should be happy. Can our men and women come home now?

 

 

 

Believe me, i'd love to be able to see the troops come home more then anyone. Its just not that simple. People don't understand that. Thats why you never heard politicians promising to withdrawl everyone at once. You just can't do it. Its a slow process.

 

 

 

We are there right now because we have a civil duty to the citizens of the nation or Iraq. We can't come home until we further this. Make sure they are stable.

[jackattack]

Kranked, why would we not go for the head of the snake? There's are reasons we haven't had another terrorist attack since 9/11. One of them is that since 2001 the U.S. has rolled up over 5,000 terrorists worldwide. It's something like 80 or 90% of the pre 9/11 senior al qaida leadership is dead or captured. Sure guys take their place but they have nowhere the same experience.

[jessy87]

Kranked, why would we not go for the head of the snake? There's are reasons we haven't had another terrorist attack since 9/11. One of them is that since 2001 the U.S. has rolled up over 5,000 terrorists worldwide. It's something like 80 or 90% of the pre 9/11 senior al qaida leadership is dead or captured. Sure guys take their place but they have nowhere the same experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i agree, but, we didnt have a whole lot of terrorist attacks pre-9/11. Sure they happened but, i think saying the lack is because these people are dead is NOT the reason.

 

 

 

 

 

Now, i do believe its a contributing factor but, they arent the only terrorist's. Honestly, I assume its a scare tactic in one aspect. I dont believe any terrorist would attack now. Group or individual. We are geared and ready to stop people from doing repeat attacks or at least try to. If i was a terrorist I wouldnt want all america to be like, well that guy is worse, or whatever.

[magekillr]

That's fantastic Krieg, so why are we there? 15/18 benchmarks completed right? That's like a B average. Bush was a C student, he should be happy. Can our men and women come home now?

 

 

 

Believe me, i'd love to be able to see the troops come home more then anyone. Its just not that simple. People don't understand that. Thats why you never heard politicians promising to withdrawl everyone at once. You just can't do it. Its a slow process.

 

 

 

We are there right now because we have a civil duty to the citizens of the nation or Iraq. We can't come home until we further this. Make sure they are stable.

 

 

 

So why aren't we withdrawing them "slowly" then? They want us out, they want a timetable, what is so hard to understand about that? It doesn't make any sense that we are still there, we have NO RIGHT to be there...

[Agunimon979]

And they are still being fought in Afghanistan. Thats one thing I'll give Obama credit on. He said he would go into Pakistan and get Bin Laden.

 

 

 

So Obama is going to chase Osama? :lol:

 

 

 

But seriously, no more war plz. Too many people are already dieing from a simple invasion.

[Lenticular_J]

Oh, since you asked so nicely, everyone will just come home right quick. Oh, wait. The world doesn't work like that.

 

 

 

And it's an occupation, not an invasion.

[fatbill]

We have no right to be there?

 

 

 

Im pretty sure we do, cause it was our decision to invade Iraq.

 

We have done what we meant to do, in getting Saddam off his throne but no war has ever been that simple.

 

 

 

Although the official war may have finished you cannot just invade a country in which there are now thousands of people dieing and just leave it! That would not be humane. We chose to invade Iraq and thus must deal with the consequences until they are able to look after them self.

 

 

 

Other wise, what would be left? A new Somalia? A corrupt nation?

 

 

 

Invading a country, finishing the objective, then just leaving? There is no point.

 

 

 

For me I think that we are in for the long run. We must and many other countrys pull our resource together to finish the job then leave slowly. This would bring stabilty to the nation which would then in turn be benifital to the surrounding nations.

 

 

 

 

 

One thing I never understand is that we have a UN and yet the forces in Iraq are only from a few countries doing all the work. Makes no sence to me although one thing I understand about that is that they do not want to seen as a threat to the terroists. Which in reality is stupid as terroism affects everyone.

[Kriegsmier]

That's fantastic Krieg, so why are we there? 15/18 benchmarks completed right? That's like a B average. Bush was a C student, he should be happy. Can our men and women come home now?

 

 

 

Believe me, i'd love to be able to see the troops come home more then anyone. Its just not that simple. People don't understand that. Thats why you never heard politicians promising to withdrawl everyone at once. You just can't do it. Its a slow process.

 

 

 

We are there right now because we have a civil duty to the citizens of the nation or Iraq. We can't come home until we further this. Make sure they are stable.

 

 

 

So why aren't we withdrawing them "slowly" then? They want us out, they want a timetable, what is so hard to understand about that? It doesn't make any sense that we are still there, we have NO RIGHT to be there...

 

 

 

It will come, be patient. I suspect once we get a new president the withdrawals will come. My unit is suspected of being deployed sometime next year...again. Supposedly the mission will be to start moving equipment out. Not 100% yet, but thats the word on the "street".

 

 

 

War is hell, people die...thats the nature of war.

[jackattack]

That's fantastic Krieg, so why are we there? 15/18 benchmarks completed right? That's like a B average. Bush was a C student, he should be happy. Can our men and women come home now?

 

 

 

Believe me, i'd love to be able to see the troops come home more then anyone. Its just not that simple. People don't understand that. Thats why you never heard politicians promising to withdrawl everyone at once. You just can't do it. Its a slow process.

 

 

 

We are there right now because we have a civil duty to the citizens of the nation or Iraq. We can't come home until we further this. Make sure they are stable.

 

 

 

So why aren't we withdrawing them "slowly" then? They want us out, they want a timetable, what is so hard to understand about that? It doesn't make any sense that we are still there, we have NO RIGHT to be there...

 

 

 

How does it not make sense that we are still there? If we leave the country goes to hell, people die, al qaida has a new haven, and the whole region is de-stabilized. Makes sense to me. They want a timetable? They got one. We are withdrawing. We've already gone down to around pre-surge levels. Admiral Mullin and General Patreus are probably going to recommend further troop withdrawals and we will probably begin withdrawing by the end of the year. If we do begin withdrawing and al qaida resurges and violence soars you don't continue to withdraw. What is so hard to understand about that? Obama's plan isn't "we are winning so we can begin to withdraw" it's "this war never should have been fought, positive developments can continue or not, we are getting the hell out of here no matter what happens to the Iraqis." He doesn't care about winning. He's on the same boat as Harry Reid in thinking the war is already lost. He sponsored legislation to stop the surge and have all troops out by March 31st of this year. That would have literally guaranteed defeat.