You're being rational about it. Relationships feel like something that shouldn't go through optimisation processes.

And that is why they fail :P

I think a more generally accepted usage of arrogance goes beyond self confidence, real or otherwise. Arrogance refers to someone who treats other people as their inferior, someone who believes themselves to be better, or worth more, than others.

 

It is not an attractive trait, at least not to people with a healthy level of self esteem.

And that is why they fail :P

 

They don't definitively always fail, that's a bad statement.

 

As to why I find the process weird...Even trying to view this disturbing process from a poly perspective, the steps you're taking seem downright deceptive. It's as if you're setting yourself up to attract one night stands rather than relationships, even if they're short term or polygamous. That's what I find unsettling about this, especially because I know you're not the person you're originally putting yourself out there to be, regardless if you correct it in the first date.

They don't definitively always fail, that's a bad statement.

 

No, they don't always fail, but they fail 9 times out of 10. Using your emotions to make critical life decisions is stupid!

 

As to why I find the process weird...Even trying to view this disturbing process from a poly perspective, the steps you're taking seem downright deceptive. It's as if you're setting yourself up to attract one night stands rather than relationships, even if they're short term or polygamous. That's what I find unsettling about this, especially because I know you're not the person you're originally putting yourself out there to be, regardless if you correct it in the first date.

 

I've made it clear in the past that I don't like one night stands. If that was my goal (which it isn't), then I'd lie out my ass, both on my online profile and on the actual date. But I don't lie-- neither in my profile nor on my dates.

 

So please be specific in describing how exactly I'm being "deceptive" and I'll be more than happy to discuss it with you.

Actually, I'm gonna try and save this discussion some time and assume that the reason you think I'm "deceptive" is because I'm seeking a polyamorous relationship with these girls, while most of these girls are seeking a monogamous relationship.

 

As I mentioned in this post, most women have no idea what they want. Or, they think they want one thing, only to curse it when they finally have it. For example, girl says, "I want a nice guy who will treat me with respect!"

1. Girl gets monogamous with Mr. Nice Guy

2. After the honeymoon period wears off (or other external factors beyond their control come into play), girl gets bored of Mr. Nice Guy

3. Girl wants a guy that's exciting now.

4. Girl gets monogamous with Mr. Bad Boy

5. After the honeymoon period wears off (or other external factors beyond their control come into play), girl gets sick of Mr. Bad Boy's territoriality and neediness and/or gets sick of him cheating on her with other women

6. Girl dumps Mr. Bad Boy, and proclaims that "all men are jerks"

7. Girl suddenly meets Mr. Nice Guy 2, promises monogamy with him, and restarts the cycle.

 

Women constantly alternate between those two extremes. They don't understand that a woman needs both a lover (Mr. Bad Boy) and a provider (Mr. Nice Guy), however those roles are mutually exclusive. They cling to the fantasy that a man can be both of those forever... but it's just not possible. If a girl wants both of those desires to be fulfilled simultaneously, forever, then she must abandon monogamy.

 

So when it comes to me, I can't just put on my profile that I'm poly, and I can't just tell her that on the first date. And you probably think that's deceptive. However, keep in mind that I never lie to women regarding my lifestyle and beliefs, and I never make promises that I can't keep.

 

So by the time a girl pops the "What is this to you...?" question, she's already become a part of the poly lifestyle, without necessarily realizing it. And that's when an interesting thing happens-- she doesn't leave me. Why? Because I'm different from what she's used to. The way I do things is better than what she's used to.

 

Also like I said, she may even choose to leave me at some point. However, unlike the guys she's dated in the past, she eventually will return back to me because she realizes that I'm different and better than the other guys.

 

And the end result of all this? We're both very very happy for a very very long time :)

 

 

Did that address your concerns, Kimberly?

Probably not, actually. I think the most deceptive part about this is that you're not a jerk, but you act like one on your profile. Or at least, that's what bugs me most about this.

Again-- in my opener which I send to every woman, I explicitly state that I'm not as much of a jerk as my profile implies. If a girl chooses to continue talking to me after reading that, then she has waived her right to claim that she was "deceived."

 

Also keep in mind that being a nice guy and being a jerk aren't mutually exclusive.

I'd like to submit this image for any more boomerang relationships that come back to this thread:

 

Again-- in my opener which I send to every woman, I explicitly state that I'm not as much of a jerk as my profile implies. If a girl chooses to continue talking to me after reading that, then she has waived her right to claim that she was "deceived."

 

Also keep in mind that being a nice guy and being a jerk aren't mutually exclusive.

I'm sort of cool with it. I figure you have to have the flashiest profile for your actual personality to be given a chance during the chat, so it's legitimate.

Again-- in my opener which I send to every woman, I explicitly state that I'm not as much of a jerk as my profile implies. If a girl chooses to continue talking to me after reading that, then she has waived her right to claim that she was "deceived."

 

Also keep in mind that being a nice guy and being a jerk aren't mutually exclusive.

I'm sort of cool with it. I figure you have to have the flashiest profile for your actual personality to be given a chance during the chat, so it's legitimate.

I do agree with Omar on this. If one person spices up their profile, everyone has to or else they are at a disadvantage, and at the end of the day I don't mind, even if I think its just making everything more difficult for everyone for no reason (people are silly).

 

However, I do not agree that its not a form of deception. I'm sure you are very well aware of how important first impressions are Muggi, and that telling someone that your profile is misleading will do diddly to correct a false impression. Your profile opens the door, your personality seals the deal (or doesn't).

It's too bad I can't just copy and paste my opener and profle text here. Like I said, nothing in my profile or anything is a lie, and there's nothing to feel deceived about. I've shown my profile and online conversations to three female friends and they didn't think poorly of anything.

 

This is likely my fault for poorly describing the actual content of my profile, opener, and personality here a few pages back... Oh well haha

That's called a collective action problem, Randox, aka arms race. Just saying, because you'll probably find it interesting.

Sorry, that came out really wrong.

 

I see it as virtually the same situation as a resume. While everything on the resume is (hopefully) factually correct, it is not honest. If you want a chance at an interview, then your cover letter will be a measure of your writing talent and ability to make your experience and abilities fit the ones the employer is looking for, and your resume will list an inventory of your talents, how much you can brag about yourself, and your ability to exaggerate. It's not lying (or again, it really shouldn't be), but it is probably not a 100% honest representation of yourself, but rather a collection of your best qualities slightly exaggerated. You do this because resumes are how people pick who to interview, and when you go to said interview, you probably dress well and take some extra care with your personal grooming, and you probably make alterations to your behavior to ensure you make as good an impression as possible.

 

My point being, at least as I see it, you don't have to lie to deceive. Omission and exaggeration (putting your best foot forward) are deception, and also necessary skills for regular social interaction.

 

And I didn't know it had a formal name. I know it in economics simply as a logical fallacy, where people assume what is good for the individual is good for the whole. If we we're given a proper name for it, I've forgotten what it is, though I might look through my notes and see. The one that frustrates me the most is people lining up early to get into places, which is only necessary because people line up early :wall:

Does that mean that you agree that the ends justify the means when it comes to "deception," then?

It would be a very different world without our capacity to lie and deceive, and one I am not sure I could totally comprehend, though I suspect it would be a much more productive and fair world.

 

However, we do not live in a perfect world, and it is not reasonable to expect people to stop trying to get an advantage as a whole, which means the whole will have to put up with the baggage that comes with it, such as lines forming before a store opens on boxing day and spicing up your resume.

 

Since the ends are are essentially maintaining a level battlefield (in this case ever sine the first ass hat exaggerated his online dating profile), then yes, the means are justified, as it is a case of survival, and an option with a minimal impact on others compared to some of the alternatives (like a career in larceny).

And I didn't know it had a formal name. I know it in economics simply as a logical fallacy, where people assume what is good for the individual is good for the whole. If we we're given a proper name for it, I've forgotten what it is, though I might look through my notes and see. The one that frustrates me the most is people lining up early to get into places, which is only necessary because people line up early :wall:

Basically it's any case where you're best off being the only one not following a law (free rider), but if every one behaves that way, everyone is worse off. For example, if there's a fire in a building, casualties are minimized when people line up to exit. Your chances of getting out are highest if you run straight through the line while everyone waits. But everyone takes that approach, and so everyone tramples each other and less people make it out alive.

 

Also, on the topic of résumés, being capable of making yourself look good can be something your employer looks for. You'd expect someone in marketing (another collective action problem) to know how to do this for example.

I'm really on a roll these days. I went to a bar with some mates tonight. The bartender was really hot. I know usually they're flirty because that's how they make their tips. But i figured i'll take a chance and flirt back (obviously with hopes of getting her number). So the lights go on, and it's last call. I call her over, tell her i don't want another drink but what i do want is her number (apparently she only moved out here a few days ago). There were a lot of people around so i was feeling kind of nervous. She asked me why should she give me her number and i told her why not? Take a chance. She looked at me and smiled, took a piece of paper and wrote down her number. GWAS.

I feel really happy with myself. Tonight i have to admit i really didn't look my best, My skin is starting to break out badly from all the exams stress and i pretty much looked like i haven't slept in a week. But i was confident in what i was doing, and that's what it's all about. Girls can really smell that on you. You can pretty much be the ugliest guy ever alive, but if you act like you're okay with it, and you act like you know what you're doing (IE. being confident), the world is going to be yours ;)

Too bad I cant post pics of them here. Do a search yourself in your own area, there will be at least 100 hot women in your area online within the last month.

 

Though, I live near a major US city so that's where a lot of them come from.

 

I live within 20 minutes of Philadelphia (fairly major US city, if you're unfamiliar) and I found a good sum of attractive women, but I wouldn't say 100. Using what I think is the same site (okcupid). Not that it matters i guess.

I looked at one of those sites for Preston (my hometown, an economically poor student city in 'The North' of England with about 150K people) and I found literally dozens of pages of single mothers my age within a 5 mile radius. Then my friends wonder why I left...

 

We all exaggerate our good sides and hide away our bad sides. If we were all completely honest and transparent to people we've only been talking to for a few minutes, none of us would get anywhere. It can backfire anyway, if the person you're talking to digs a little deeper and finds out that what you're saying is a half-truth or total BS. People aren't stupid.

Went out drinking with some friends last night, including a close friend's girlfriend. A girl I opened last week randomly messaged me back at like midnight while we were at a bar, and so I scheduled a meet with her while my friend's girlfriend watched with interest, lol. She read my profile and the conversation I had leading up to me scheduling the meet and she was like, "Damn. That was perfect."

 

THE SYSTEM WORKS!!!

 

Too bad I cant post pics of them here. Do a search yourself in your own area, there will be at least 100 hot women in your area online within the last month.

 

Though, I live near a major US city so that's where a lot of them come from.

 

I live within 20 minutes of Philadelphia (fairly major US city, if you're unfamiliar) and I found a good sum of attractive women, but I wouldn't say 100. Using what I think is the same site (okcupid). Not that it matters i guess.

 

That's why I use two dating sites; to double my numbers :D

Was your long post about the process of polygamy and what women want based on practical or theoretical experience?

Both. There have actually been a few girls whom I've discussed it with, and they all confirmed my thoughts and agreed with me, albeit reluctantly haha

Actually, I'm gonna try and save this discussion some time and assume that the reason you think I'm "deceptive" is because I'm seeking a polyamorous relationship with these girls, while most of these girls are seeking a monogamous relationship.\

 

IDK how I missed this. Sorry muggi! :(

 

No, I feel you were being deceptive because of your personality, regardless of what you put in a little disclaimer. This experiment seems to be that you're just playing the role of the rebel to attract a certain type of female and to check your success rate. It's not that you're pursuing a poly relationship, its that it doesn't really seem like you're approaching this with any sort of relationship in mind at all. When I see your statistical posts like it's just a numbers game you seem to be more fascinated by the women who go for [wagon] rather than actually perusing anything meaningful. That's why I find it a little disturbing, is all. Not that other people don't do what you seem to be doing "IRL", it's just an overall weird thing to me.

Actually, I'm gonna try and save this discussion some time and assume that the reason you think I'm "deceptive" is because I'm seeking a polyamorous relationship with these girls, while most of these girls are seeking a monogamous relationship.\

 

IDK how I missed this. Sorry muggi! :(

 

No, I feel you were being deceptive because of your personality, regardless of what you put in a little disclaimer.

 

Well again, my personality and my profile are very "congruent." It's not like I'm posing as a completely different person. My female friends who have read my profile and the messages I send out don't have any objections to it because nothing seemed "wrong" or "deceptive" to them. Also regarding deception, keep in mind as Randox pointed out, basically every person in a relationship has technically been guilty of deception at one point or another simply by not being 100% honest right off the bat. It'd be different if I was claiming to be a Hollywood movie star that earns millions of dollars per year, but I'm not doing anything like that. Not even close. Finally, keep in mind that I did a poor job of actually stating what my profile says and what I say in my opener on here. I'm being honest more than anything else with my profile text; many girls message me back complimenting me on my honesty.

 

This experiment seems to be that you're just playing the role of the rebel to attract a certain type of female and to check your success rate.

 

Well I am kind of the black sheep of the group when it comes to this sort of thing :P Not really playing a role... it's like the resume analogy that was brought up earlier. I'm just emphasizing my strengths within the context of dating on my profile.

 

It's not that you're pursuing a poly relationship, its that it doesn't really seem like you're approaching this with any sort of relationship in mind at all. When I see your statistical posts like it's just a numbers game you seem to be more fascinated by the women who go for [wagon] rather than actually perusing anything meaningful. That's why I find it a little disturbing, is all. Not that other people don't do what you seem to be doing "IRL", it's just an overall weird thing to me.

 

My goal is simply to have romantic, exciting relationships with beautiful women; with minimal effort, drama, and sacrifices; and without having to promise monogamy.

 

There's a reason why I'm treating the online dating aspect like a numbers game: because it is a numbers game! :P I've sent out 134 messages this week and scheduled 11 dates as a result. Can you even imagine how long it would take if I messaged those girls one a time, waiting for a response? Or how long it would take if I only talked to one girl at a time once I was getting responses? Or how long it would take to schedule a date with a girl, see how it goes, then wait until we either enter the relationship phase or lose interest before moving on to the next girl? Or how susceptible to neediness (bad for both sides) I would be if I was doing this all with one girl at a time?

 

Again, am I being politically correct here? No.

Am I being rational and smart about this? Yes. :D

 

No worries, though. Once I'm in actual relationships with these girls, it'll be much more "natural" and no longer a numbers thing.

 

Also, you need to define what's "meaningful." Most people seem to think that behaving irrationally and making huge sacrifices just for that "special someone" is meaningful. It isn't. It's stupid and equally damaging to both sides in the long run. I just hope you're not falling into the trap of thinking, "only low-quality girls will go for you if you behave like that!" or "only low-quality women have sex before the third date!" All untrue.