Inmate claims he's to fat to put to death.

[dragoonson]

I say let him free,spray him in the face with mace (MACE-In yo' face!) and tell him to "go be fat somewhere else".

 

 

 

Though...You could feed him McDonalds everyday till he gets cancer or something.

[goldphishies]

Nothing is too inhumane for someone who took another's life. Your rights as a human should be stripped the minute you are proven to have committed murder.

 

And of the executioner? He too has taken a human life; and whatever way you look at it, there is an alternative to the death penalty. Should the executioner also have his human rights removed by your logic?

 

 

 

You've punished a murderer... by murdering him. I'm not quite sure that sets a better example.

 

 

 

I'm just looking at the way the legal system works, and (Having no intricate knowledge of the legal system) could I not commit a crime, but then claim that I am not bound by any laws, since I did not agree to them? I signed no contract, I never even verbally said that I would follow the law. Therefore, by the law itself, I am not obligated to follow the law. The government could probably just turn around and tell anyone/thing that I am not to be serviced or provided for, my land confiscated, but then that would be interfering with my rights as a human. I'm not a hypocrite for it either. I may not follow the alw, but that does not prevent me from enforcing the law on others.

 

A country's laws apply to all inhabitants of that country. You merely living there is a sign that you agree to, and will adhere to the law of that land. If you don't agree with the law, move to another country whose laws you do agree with.

 

 

 

I hate to say it, but that's the mindset of every person against the death penalty. The death penalty is more or less of a show. They do it to discourage people doing things along the lines of what he did, by ending their lives. They don't do it for pure sadistic pleasure, they do it because he deserved it. He made the choice, it's time to pay the consequences. It's not a matter of him being murdered. He's being put to death for a reason, and he had no reason good enough to rape and kill two innocent women.

[scootlaboot]

I dont understand.

 

 

 

If he's too fat why don't they make him exercise and eat less, then kill him?

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

 

Using being fat to get out of being put to death by lethal injection, fail. Not realizing that Ohio, I think that's where he's at, still uses the electric chair, fail. Not using the racist term "obese" in the title of the thread, priceless.

[Kriegsmier]

Course, being the silly naive liberal I am, I would say that one way to avoid all this is to not have the death penalty in the first place. But I understand that if you didn't, rapists, terrorists and murderers would run riot... just like they do in all countries which have outlawed the death penalty.

 

 

 

 

 

U.S. has a much higher rate of murders than Canada, and guess what, in Canada there's no death penalty. Ironic isn't it?

 

I can't tell if you picked up on the sarcasm oozing from my post. In any case, I agree with your point. Retribution works in cycles, hence why it should not be the primary aim of a sentence.

 

 

 

Which brings me to meol's question. The aims of prison should always be vindication (in order to make society safe) and rehabilitation (in order to ensure society remains safe once their time in prison is over).

 

 

 

We can get as right-wing and militant about this as we like, but retribution simply does not work as an effective deterrent - the proof for this statement is in the stats me and sbrideau2000 have mentioned - and doesn't reform a man for his post-prison life.

 

 

 

A lot of these guys in there are career criminals. That is their safe house, they can't be introduced back into society. They have adapted to prison life and thrive there. Thats why you have repeat offenders. I've been in there first hand, working for County law enforcement. A lot, most, of these people cannot or will not be rehabilitated. Some even get into fights just to be able to have their parole pushed back because they don't want to leave! You can throw time and money at rehabilitation programs all you want, but you might as well be throwing a ball to a dead dog.

 

 

 

Juvenile systems? Sure put the rehabilitation programs there, theres usually a chance. But in state and county prisons, eh waste.

 

 

 

Why rehabilitate those that commit crimes like rape, murder, child molestation? Do you seriously think they can turn around and walk on the street? Either way they are going to be in prison for most of the rest of their life. So why spend time rehabilitating cases that would actually death with the death penalty as an option? That'd be like turning a fighting dog loose again just because it had a couple obedience classes. The only criminals you have the chance of turning around are juveniles and petty crime adults.

 

 

 

The only way i see rehabilitation working is first breaking up the prison lifestyle. Breaking up the gangs, the race wars, the groups. The guys up top are feeding the newer guys what they want them to do, it makes our job harder trying to rehabilitate because their head is filled with lies and one man's wishes. They have no chance once they've become involved in this. But in a lot of cases, to survive you have to get involved. Its a no win situation. Get rid of this, and rehabilitate. Until then, don't waste your time.

 

 

 

I dont understand.

 

 

 

If he's too fat why don't they make him exercise and eat less, then kill him?

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

 

Using being fat to get out of being put to death by lethal injection, fail. Not realizing that Ohio, I think that's where he's at, still uses the electric chair, fail. Not using the racist term "obese" in the title of the thread, priceless.

 

 

 

Ohio does not use the electric chair. Fail. Been that way since November 15, 2001.

[scootlaboot]

 

 

 

I dont understand.

 

 

 

If he's too fat why don't they make him exercise and eat less, then kill him?

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

 

Using being fat to get out of being put to death by lethal injection, fail. Not realizing that Ohio, I think that's where he's at, still uses the electric chair, fail. Not using the racist term "obese" in the title of the thread, priceless.

 

 

 

Ohio does not use the electric chair. Fail. Been that way since November 15, 2001.

 

Then send him to texas.

[Lenticular_J]

I don't believe that. I believe in most cases, a criminal is a criminal, and doesn't change. I'm talking crimes like murder and rape, of course. Rehab can be faked so they can go back to their old habits, easy.

 

 

 

Which brings us to a question: Are humans born evil? Are they born thinking "damn, crime sure looks appealing right about now..."

 

 

 

I can think of one such case for these views, and that's Ted Bundy. He believed that his crimes were equal to that of snatching a cracker from a child's hand; a crime is a crime.

 

 

 

If they're not born the way they are, rehabilitation can always be tried, at a minimum. Not only that, but the spawn of crime is that there is no other way out in their eyes, it's the only option they have. So perhaps tacking onto rehabilitation, we need to focus on more preventative measures. Which goes back to the gun control thread with jackattack screaming that "welfare increases crime", and I shall respond to that.

 

 

 

Ta.

 

I mean in most cases; the majority of criminals will do whatever they can to get out of prison. And the majority of those will not change their ways.

 

 

 

There's always shock therapy, though :twss:

[Ginger_Warrior]

I hate to say it, but that's the mindset of every person against the death penalty. The death penalty is more or less of a show. They do it to discourage people doing things along the lines of what he did, by ending their lives.

 

Maybe, but this means nothing unless it's actually working. Which it isn't.

 

 

 

They don't do it for pure sadistic pleasure, they do it because he deserved it.

 

Are you seriously telling me that the pursuit of revenge, by killing those who have seriously wronged society's laws, isn't sadistic? I've seen little pertinent common sense reasoning for the death penalty in the entire five pages of the thread thus far. All I've seen is a barrage of hatred against this man, and a few (baseless) blanket statements.

 

 

 

A lot of these guys in there are career criminals.

 

A person rapes and murders two women as part of their career... what?

 

 

 

Even if rehabilitation doesn't work (which it does in many cases, as is evident by the drug addicts, the alcoholics and the mentally ill prisoners which go through such schemes), how does this prove the need for retribution?

 

 

 

You've punished the criminal by giving him all the lashings and indignity you want. So what? Have his opportunities improved coming out of jail? Has he gained any new skills in jail? Can he pursue a career so he no longer feels a need to turn to crime?

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

Instead he's got a criminal record which deters any potential employer from taking him out of that crime.

[Nom]

Are you seriously telling me that the pursuit of revenge, by killing those who have seriously wronged society's laws, isn't sadistic? I've seen little pertinent common sense reasoning for the death penalty in the entire five pages of the thread thus far. All I've seen is a barrage of hatred against this man, and a few (baseless) blanket statements.

 

 

 

 

 

You've punished the criminal by giving him all the lashings and indignity you want. So what? Have his opportunities improved coming out of jail? Has he gained any new skills in jail? Can he pursue a career so he no longer feels a need to turn to crime?

 

 

 

I question whether you can call the death penalty sadistic when you go on to say that a criminal who is not put to death becomes a threat to society once again upon being released. If rehabilitation doesn't work, there is nothing stopping the criminal from returning to his old ways.

 

 

 

Instead he's got a criminal record which deters any potential employer from taking him out of that crime.

 

 

 

While I see the criminal record as slightly contradictory, as you say, consider this: A criminal who is released having BSed his way through rehab or not undergoing it at all is still a threat, and without a criminal record no employer would know that he is in fact exposing the criminal to potential victims.

 

 

 

So, if the convict's record is preventing him getting a job, or if he hasn't changed his ways, or if he has a job but that is not enough to be a pull away from a life of crime (which I'm not really sold on, to be honest), then he will most likely continue to commit crimes after being released from jail. What do we do then? Jails are far too overcrowded as it is. It is not sadistic to despose of the worst criminals by the death penalty; it is justified and necessary. And if death row becomes a swifter-moving line that acts quickly on the highest crimes, instead of the sad system we have now, it will be a more fearful reality for potential criminals and act as a deterrent.

[Cup Lion]

I've seen and heard about similar stories. People claiming it is cruel and unusual punishment. They'll find a way.

[magekillr]

Jails are overcrowded because half of the "criminals" are there for possession of marijuana. Blame the war on drugs, yet another Conservative talking point/entity. Notice how anything we don't like, we declare war on...now you have the war on crime. Nothing like solving problems with war and violence.

[Lenticular_J]

Jails are overcrowded because half of the "criminals" are there for possession of marijuana. Blame the war on drugs, yet another Conservative talking point/entity. Notice how anything we don't like, we declare war on...now you have the war on crime. Nothing like solving problems with war and violence.

 

I'd love a statistic on that. :|

[Ginger_Warrior]

So, if the convict's record is preventing him getting a job, or if he hasn't changed his ways, or if he has a job but that is not enough to be a pull away from a life of crime (which I'm not really sold on, to be honest), then he will most likely continue to commit crimes after being released from jail. What do we do then? Jails are far too overcrowded as it is. It is not sadistic to despose of the worst criminals by the death penalty; it is justified and necessary. And if death row becomes a swifter-moving line that acts quickly on the highest crimes, instead of the sad system we have now, it will be a more fearful reality for potential criminals and act as a deterrent.

 

Firstly, how can you say the death penalty is necessary when there are many countries around the world who have abolished the death penalty and still have a lower homicide rate than the US?

 

 

 

Secondly, where is the proof it's even working as a deterrent? A life time in jail is a huge deterrent in itself. The only factor that might deter a potential murderer from carrying out the deed is how likely he's going to be able to get away with it. If the criminal believes the punishment for what he's done is escapable, it makes little difference what that punishment is.

[l0l0lpur32]

Jails are overcrowded because half of the "criminals" are there for possession of marijuana. Blame the war on drugs, yet another Conservative talking point/entity. Notice how anything we don't like, we declare war on...now you have the war on crime. Nothing like solving problems with war and violence.

 

I don't want to turn this into a debate on the legality of drugs but are you saying to make marijuana legal? Also I would like to see some statistics on that.

[magekillr]

Jails are overcrowded because half of the "criminals" are there for possession of marijuana. Blame the war on drugs, yet another Conservative talking point/entity. Notice how anything we don't like, we declare war on...now you have the war on crime. Nothing like solving problems with war and violence.

 

I'd love a statistic on that. :|

 

 

 

http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/race/

 

 

 

This is a statistic to show racial profiling at its finest, along with the fact that 62.5% of blacks are in jail because of drug offenses; the majority being because of marijuana.

 

 

 

Half of state prisons consist of non-violent crimes; 20% of those beings drug related offenses, the rate is higher among Federal prisons.

 

 

 

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/p05.pdf

 

 

 

So now you're putting NON-VIOLENT people in jail, for resorting to 2 crimes that help them financially because they have no other options. You're exposing them to violence, gangs, the drugs are still in prisons, they're abused by the cops who have an authority complex, and when they get out they have a felony on their record and cannot get a job. What happens then? Back to square one: more theft, more drugs.

 

 

 

Can't you see, even if a very very small blur, that these criminals are victims of society?

[l0l0lpur32]

Jails are overcrowded because half of the "criminals" are there for possession of marijuana. Blame the war on drugs, yet another Conservative talking point/entity. Notice how anything we don't like, we declare war on...now you have the war on crime. Nothing like solving problems with war and violence.

 

I'd love a statistic on that. :|

 

 

 

http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/race/

 

 

 

This is a statistic to show racial profiling at its finest, along with the fact that 62.5% of blacks are in jail because of drug offenses; the majority being because of marijuana.

 

 

 

Half of state prisons consist of non-violent crimes; 20% of those beings drug related offenses, the rate is higher among Federal prisons.

 

 

 

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/p05.pdf

 

 

 

So now you're putting NON-VIOLENT people in jail, for resorting to 2 crimes that help them financially because they have no other options. You're exposing them to violence, gangs, the drugs are still in prisons, they're abused by the cops who have an authority complex, and when they get out they have a felony on their record and cannot get a job. What happens then? Back to square one: more theft, more drugs.

 

 

 

Can't you see, even if a very very small blur, that these criminals are victims of society?

 

Ever thought that some of them do it instead of other options, rather than because it's their only option?

[magekillr]

Jails are overcrowded because half of the "criminals" are there for possession of marijuana. Blame the war on drugs, yet another Conservative talking point/entity. Notice how anything we don't like, we declare war on...now you have the war on crime. Nothing like solving problems with war and violence.

 

I don't want to turn this into a debate on the legality of drugs but are you saying to make marijuana legal? Also I would like to see some statistics on that.

 

 

 

Statistics are above.

 

 

 

Nope, I do not agree with marijuana being legal until America has a broader, and more open mind about drugs. They've been lied to all these years, which was strongly perpetuated by Ronald Reagan and his criminal gang, so now when all of the sudden they realize this, they might lash out and go use "safe" drugs. America can't handle alcohol right now, let alone marijuana and other drugs.

 

 

 

Now, when we're officially educated about it properly without scare tactics and lies, and people understand it, then I do not have any objections with it being legal. Until then, it should not be a crime to possess it in smaller quantities.

[Nom]

I agree with magekillr about the marijuana thing. I had that debate a long time ago. This isn't the place for it, though.

 

 

 

Firstly, how can you say the death penalty is necessary when there are many countries around the world who have abolished the death penalty and still have a lower homicide rate than the US?

 

 

 

Conversely, how can you say that the death penalty is unnecessary because it somehow causes more homicides? You can't blame the US's homicide rate on the death penalty. I find it highly improbable that abolishing the death penalty will lower crime. Of these many countries, how many have had their crime rates lowered because they did away with capital punishment? I would say that rather than that happening, the country already had lower rates of crime than the US (which isn't hard to do.)

 

 

 

Secondly, where is the proof it's even working as a deterrent? A life time in jail is a huge deterrent in itself. The only factor that might deter a potential murderer from carrying out the deed is how likely he's going to be able to get away with it. If the criminal believes the punishment for what he's done is escapable, it makes little difference what that punishment is.

 

 

 

That's what I'm getting at, in a way. As shown by the article in the OP, the current system of capital punishment is ridiculously inefficient and ineffective. If the criminal knew that it was highly probable that he would be put to death, and the law enforcement were competent enough to make it so, then I believe that it would, in fact, be an effective deterrent.

 

 

 

And if it makes so little difference what the punishment is, why are we debating the death penalty? On that note, I would like to point out that life in jail, as so many people on this thread have said, can be considered a greater punishment than death, being prolonged suffering. How is this less sadistic than simply putting a criminal to death? I can argue that it is more so, which would ironically make capital punishment akin to euthanasia.

[Cup Lion]

Notice how anything we don't like, we declare war on...now you have the war on crime. Nothing like solving problems with war and violence.

 

I think the phrase "war on crime" doesn't mean literally declaring war on criminals and preparing the extinguish them. I notice things we don't like, we strive to stop, but we don't declare war on. Its a figure of speech, if you ask me.

[jackattack]

Magekillr, it wasn't all Ronald Reagan. Tip O'Neill was huge in it too.

 

 

 

I hate to say it, but that's the mindset of every person against the death penalty. The death penalty is more or less of a show. They do it to discourage people doing things along the lines of what he did, by ending their lives.

 

Maybe, but this means nothing unless it's actually working. Which it isn't.

 

 

 

It is a deterrent. Each execution saves 18 lives.

 

 

 

http://www.cjlf.org/deathpenalty/DezRub ... rFinal.pdf

[magekillr]

Notice how anything we don't like, we declare war on...now you have the war on crime. Nothing like solving problems with war and violence.

 

I think the phrase "war on crime" doesn't mean literally declaring war on criminals and preparing the extinguish them. I notice things we don't like, we strive to stop, but we don't declare war on. Its a figure of speech, if you ask me.

 

 

 

*Sigh* I know it's a figure of speech. It's the war to get rid of, and lower crime, not against the criminals. Just like the War on Poverty, I don't expect the government to go around whacking poor people.

 

 

 

However, the phrase in general just spouts America's views: war, violence, retribution. The anthem has bombs in it for christ sake.

[scootlaboot]

Jails are overcrowded because half of the "criminals" are there for possession of marijuana. Blame the war on drugs, yet another Conservative talking point/entity. Notice how anything we don't like, we declare war on...now you have the war on crime. Nothing like solving problems with war and violence.

 

I don't want to turn this into a debate on the legality of drugs but are you saying to make marijuana legal? Also I would like to see some statistics on that.

 

 

 

Statistics are above.

 

 

 

Nope, I do not agree with marijuana being legal until America has a broader, and more open mind about drugs. They've been lied to all these years, which was strongly perpetuated by Ronald Reagan and his criminal gang, so now when all of the sudden they realize this, they might lash out and go use "safe" drugs. America can't handle alcohol right now, let alone marijuana and other drugs.

 

 

 

Now, when we're officially educated about it properly without scare tactics and lies, and people understand it, then I do not have any objections with it being legal. Until then, it should not be a crime to possess it in smaller quantities.

 

 

 

You wanna know why America has it's alcohol and drug policies, the Christians who run the government. As much as the words separation of church and state are shoved in everyone's faces, how often is it actually separate. Take our marriage laws for example, homosexuals can't get married because it is a christian viewpoint that stops it. Before I get carried away with my conspiracy theories, I would like to state tha tI agree on the whole America needs to get unbrainwashed thing, before marijuana should be legalized.

 

 

 

On topic: This man is an embarrassment to fat people everywhere. He's almost as bad as the fat people that use handicap parking spaces. Fat people, get off your fat lazy [wagon] and go for a walk, not to the fridge.

[magekillr]

Magekillr, it wasn't all Ronald Reagan. Tip O'Neill was huge in it too.

 

 

 

I hate to say it, but that's the mindset of every person against the death penalty. The death penalty is more or less of a show. They do it to discourage people doing things along the lines of what he did, by ending their lives.

 

Maybe, but this means nothing unless it's actually working. Which it isn't.

 

 

 

It is a deterrent. Each execution saves 18 lives.

 

 

 

http://www.cjlf.org/deathpenalty/DezRub ... rFinal.pdf

 

 

 

I mean if you wanna post links and stuff...

 

 

 

http://www.law.columbia.edu/law_school/ ... italpunish

 

 

 

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?&did=2374

 

 

 

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... bbe2f.html

 

 

 

http://www.carrborocitizen.com/main/200 ... to-murder/

 

 

 

etc.

 

 

 

I say Ronald Reagan because he amplified it a million times ten raised to the one hundreth power.

[magekillr]

Jails are overcrowded because half of the "criminals" are there for possession of marijuana. Blame the war on drugs, yet another Conservative talking point/entity. Notice how anything we don't like, we declare war on...now you have the war on crime. Nothing like solving problems with war and violence.

 

I don't want to turn this into a debate on the legality of drugs but are you saying to make marijuana legal? Also I would like to see some statistics on that.

 

 

 

Statistics are above.

 

 

 

Nope, I do not agree with marijuana being legal until America has a broader, and more open mind about drugs. They've been lied to all these years, which was strongly perpetuated by Ronald Reagan and his criminal gang, so now when all of the sudden they realize this, they might lash out and go use "safe" drugs. America can't handle alcohol right now, let alone marijuana and other drugs.

 

 

 

Now, when we're officially educated about it properly without scare tactics and lies, and people understand it, then I do not have any objections with it being legal. Until then, it should not be a crime to possess it in smaller quantities.

 

 

 

You wanna know why America has it's alcohol and drug policies, the Christians who run the government. As much as the words separation of church and state are shoved in everyone's faces, how often is it actually separate. Take our marriage laws for example, homosexuals can't get married because it is a christian viewpoint that stops it. Before I get carried away with my conspiracy theories, I would like to state tha tI agree on the whole America needs to get unbrainwashed thing, before marijuana should be legalized.

 

 

 

On topic: This man is an embarrassment to fat people everywhere. He's almost as bad as the fat people that use handicap parking spaces. Fat people, get off your fat lazy [wagon] and go for a walk, not to the fridge.

 

 

 

Oh I see, so you use this as a conduit to attack Christianity and religion? It's about money, it's not about religion. Marriage I will agree with, but not drugs.

[l0l0lpur32]

 

You wanna know why America has it's alcohol and drug policies, the Christians who run the government. As much as the words separation of church and state are shoved in everyone's faces, how often is it actually separate. Take our marriage laws for example, homosexuals can't get married because it is a christian viewpoint that stops it. Before I get carried away with my conspiracy theories, I would like to state tha tI agree on the whole America needs to get unbrainwashed thing, before marijuana should be legalized.

 

 

Of course the religion which the majority of a country follows has influence on it's laws.

[goldphishies]

 

Maybe, but this means nothing unless it's actually working. Which it isn't.

 

It's evidentally working. We have high rape and murder rates, and I hate to degrade my country like this, but it's America. It's not like our cities are the safest on earth.

 

 

 

 

Are you seriously telling me that the pursuit of revenge, by killing those who have seriously wronged society's laws, isn't sadistic? I've seen little pertinent common sense reasoning for the death penalty in the entire five pages of the thread thus far. All I've seen is a barrage of hatred against this man, and a few (baseless) blanket statements.

 

I believe that's exactly what I said. Did you expect a barrage of love for this man, who raped and killed two women? If so, you may need to seek help. We aren't killing him for revenge. We're killing him because it's just, and fair to the family. Call it revenge, call it what you will. He will feel no pain. Those women undoubtedly felt pain. He's getting the better end of the deal compared to them.

 

 

 

A lot of these guys in there are career criminals.

 

A person rapes and murders two women as part of their career... what?

 

 

 

Even if rehabilitation doesn't work (which it does in many cases, as is evident by the drug addicts, the alcoholics and the mentally ill prisoners which go through such schemes), how does this prove the need for retribution?

 

 

 

You've punished the criminal by giving him all the lashings and indignity you want. So what? Have his opportunities improved coming out of jail? Has he gained any new skills in jail? Can he pursue a career so he no longer feels a need to turn to crime?

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

Instead he's got a criminal record which deters any potential employer from taking him out of that crime.

 

I don't believe he was talking about this man specifically. But that's a damn good begining. And you can't always rehabilitate someone who did what he did. And the need for retribution is taking two innocent women's lives. All the lashings and indignities? We can give him quite a few more. He screwed his chances of being a productive member of society when he killed and raped. Don't say that if we had given him a pat on the wrist and a don't do it again, and let him loose and forgotten about it, he'd see the error of his ways. He'd do it again because he wouldn't be afraid of dying. He's getting what he deserves. We're sending him back to his maker, as is the christian mindset behind it, to let him decide what to do with the sick bastard.