Inmate claims he's to fat to put to death.

[jackattack]

This isnt left vs. right. This is a nerdy statistician saying its too hard to tell, Wolfers said. Within the advocacy community and legal scholars who are not as statistically adept, they will tell you its still an open question. Among the small number of economists at leading universities whose bread and butter is statistical analysis, the argument is finished.

 

 

 

Several authors of the pro-deterrent reports said they welcome criticism in the interests of science, but said their work is being attacked by opponents of capital punishment for their findings, not their flaws.

 

 

 

Instead of people sitting down and saying lets see what the data shows, its people sitting down and saying lets show this is wrong, said Paul Rubin, an economist and co-author of an Emory University study. Some scientists are out seeking the truth, and some of them have a position they would like to defend....A 2003 study he co-authored, and a 2006 study that re-examined the data, found that each execution results in five fewer homicides, and commuting a death sentence means five more homicides. The results are robust, they dont really go away, he said. I oppose the death penalty. But my results show that the death penalty (deters) what am I going to do, hide them?

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19160965

[Ginger_Warrior]

Magekillr, it wasn't all Ronald Reagan. Tip O'Neill was huge in it too.

 

 

 

I hate to say it, but that's the mindset of every person against the death penalty. The death penalty is more or less of a show. They do it to discourage people doing things along the lines of what he did, by ending their lives.

 

Maybe, but this means nothing unless it's actually working. Which it isn't.

 

 

 

It is a deterrent. Each execution saves 18 lives.

 

 

 

http://www.cjlf.org/deathpenalty/DezRub ... rFinal.pdf

 

The report admits a margin of error of +/- 10 on a conclusion of only 18, and you think this is reliable? A error margin of, in percentage terms, 55.5%?

 

 

 

Are you for real?

[jackattack]

Thats still 8 lives saved.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Thats still 8 lives saved.

 

:wall:

 

 

 

That doesn't mean 8 lives minimum will be saved... it indicates the unreliability of that source. Hell, even the final paragraph says other factors may have contributed to the results. It evidently wasn't even a scientifically correct study.

[goldphishies]

Magekillr, it wasn't all Ronald Reagan. Tip O'Neill was huge in it too.

 

 

 

I hate to say it, but that's the mindset of every person against the death penalty. The death penalty is more or less of a show. They do it to discourage people doing things along the lines of what he did, by ending their lives.

 

Maybe, but this means nothing unless it's actually working. Which it isn't.

 

 

 

It is a deterrent. Each execution saves 18 lives.

 

 

 

http://www.cjlf.org/deathpenalty/DezRub ... rFinal.pdf

 

The report admits a margin of error of +/- 10 on a conclusion of only 18, and you think this is reliable? A error margin of, in percentage terms, 55.5%?

 

 

 

Are you for real?

 

I believe he is.

 

It's statistics. Let the public do with it as they will.

 

On a side note, I think a death penalty thread is in order here. That's basically what this thread has become.

 

 

 

 

 

And jackattack. Thankyou for pointing that out :thumbsup:

 

EDIT:

 

Thats still 8 lives saved.

 

:wall:

 

 

 

That doesn't mean 8 lives minimum will be saved... it indicates the unreliability of that source. Hell, even the final paragraph says other factors may have contributed to the results. It evidently wasn't even a scientifically correct study.

 

 

 

Again. Let the public do with it as they will. It's open info, not a conspiracy. Taking a life to save just two is more than enough.

[jackattack]

Thats still 8 lives saved.

 

:wall:

 

 

 

That doesn't mean 8 lives minimum will be saved... it indicates the unreliability of that source. Hell, even the final paragraph says other factors may have contributed to the results. It evidently wasn't even a scientifically correct study.

 

 

 

Even within the margin of error there are still lives saved. Every statistical analysis I've seen shows that it is a deterrent.

[magekillr]

Even if it WAS a deterrent, which way more sources point that it isn't and you can look at places that have completely gotten rid of it at their crime rates, but even if it was, I STILL wouldn't use it.

 

 

 

Are we so barbaric that we cannot know that the BEST way is to lead through example, and not vengeance? You know what's a deterrent for theft? Cutting off people's hands, well, it works in theocracies. You know what helps keep kids away from having sex before marriage and unwanted pregnancies? Killing pregnant mothers for fornication.

 

 

 

I swear, some of the people here... :wall:

[goldphishies]

Even if it WAS a deterrent, which way more sources point that it isn't and you can look at places that have completely gotten rid of it at their crime rates, but even if it was, I STILL wouldn't use it.

 

 

 

Are we so barbaric that we cannot know that the BEST way is to lead through example, and not vengeance? You know what's a deterrent for theft? Cutting off people's hands, well, it works in theocracies. You know what helps keep kids away from having sex before marriage and unwanted pregnancies? Killing pregnant mothers for fornication.

 

 

 

I swear, some of the people here... :wall:

 

 

 

You go ahead and start leading through example. We'll deal with all of the murderers still alive.

 

Are you so naive that us just stopping with the death penalty will stop all murders? Some of the people on here are just... :wall: We can lead through example as much as we want. It may work on paper, but paper doesn't count. Again, this is America. Our inner cities aren't the safest. Leading by example is a stand that'll never have any serious impact on crime.

[jackattack]

There are not more sources that point to it not being a deterrent. And comparing it to cutting off peoples hands for stealing or killing pregnant mothers is silly.

[Lenticular_J]

Jails are overcrowded because half of the "criminals" are there for possession of marijuana. Blame the war on drugs, yet another Conservative talking point/entity. Notice how anything we don't like, we declare war on...now you have the war on crime. Nothing like solving problems with war and violence.

 

I'd love a statistic on that. :|

 

 

 

http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/race/

 

 

 

This is a statistic to show racial profiling at its finest, along with the fact that 62.5% of blacks are in jail because of drug offenses; the majority being because of marijuana.

 

 

 

Half of state prisons consist of non-violent crimes; 20% of those beings drug related offenses, the rate is higher among Federal prisons.

 

 

 

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/p05.pdf

 

 

 

So now you're putting NON-VIOLENT people in jail, for resorting to 2 crimes that help them financially because they have no other options. You're exposing them to violence, gangs, the drugs are still in prisons, they're abused by the cops who have an authority complex, and when they get out they have a felony on their record and cannot get a job. What happens then? Back to square one: more theft, more drugs.

 

 

 

Can't you see, even if a very very small blur, that these criminals are victims of society?

 

I don't know how to open a .pdf file, but the first link showed nothing about 62.5% of blacks being in jail because of drugs. It says 62.5% of drug offenders in prison are black. (On another note, how were we able to go from death penalty to racial profiling? :?) That's because so many minorities are in the ghetto, and they're exposed to that stuff their whole lives. So, whether they don't make the right choices and end up just continuing the chain or just aren't able to find anyone who'll help them get out, they'll turn to the things that are common where they grew up. Drugs and the like. Not saying this is great and dandy, but it's what happens.

 

So, what? These people that committed nonviolent crimes should just be allowed back onto the streets? Even with rehabilitation they won't have money. I don't see how the death penalty being abolished will magically provide safety and freedom to everyone in the ghetto. You provided a statistic that showed you were exaggerating quite a good bit, and now we're both going off-topic. Crap.

 

 

 

Well, please remember I only got the first source you posted. On another note, though, how can we fix society in your eyes, eh? You blame a good bit of problems on society and the culture of our world, but how exactly do we fix it?

 

 

 

Sorry for being a bit late in here. And you guys really don't need to take it up so personally because of someone's views, even if you think they're a stupid poo face.

[Abyssalwhip]

As I said, not too fat to put a bullet in his head.

[nomadmike]

I was reading somewhere about the guillotine not cutting through the neck the first time and would take 2 or 3 more drops. :shock: Ouch?

 

 

 

:lol: I say there should be a wilderness where we release the people who are sentenced to death. We should neuter and spay them and let them roam free. Maybe as far north as the arctic? This would also be pretty profitable if we secretly video tape them and have a TV show. Not bad for them(they live more or less) and we also don't have to spend money on injecting them. =D>

 

 

 

Only downside I see is people going to the death penalty just to go there and escape this failing world #-o .

[Ginger_Warrior]

Thats still 8 lives saved.

 

:wall:

 

 

 

That doesn't mean 8 lives minimum will be saved... it indicates the unreliability of that source. Hell, even the final paragraph says other factors may have contributed to the results. It evidently wasn't even a scientifically correct study.

 

 

 

Even within the margin of error there are still lives saved. Every statistical analysis I've seen shows that it is a deterrent.

 

Did you actually read a single word I said in that post?

 

 

 

And have you even bothered to read up on sources you don't necessarily agree with?

 

 

 

We can all go onto the websites of pressure groups, or do a search of Google, and copy-paste.

[jackattack]

I would hardly call Emory University biased. I haven't seen one paper that says the death penaly is not a deterrent. I have seen people attack the economists who have found that it is and one paper comparing states with the death penalty and states without it but thats it.

[scootlaboot]

[hide=]

Jails are overcrowded because half of the "criminals" are there for possession of marijuana. Blame the war on drugs, yet another Conservative talking point/entity. Notice how anything we don't like, we declare war on...now you have the war on crime. Nothing like solving problems with war and violence.

 

I don't want to turn this into a debate on the legality of drugs but are you saying to make marijuana legal? Also I would like to see some statistics on that.

 

 

 

Statistics are above.

 

 

 

Nope, I do not agree with marijuana being legal until America has a broader, and more open mind about drugs. They've been lied to all these years, which was strongly perpetuated by Ronald Reagan and his criminal gang, so now when all of the sudden they realize this, they might lash out and go use "safe" drugs. America can't handle alcohol right now, let alone marijuana and other drugs.

 

 

 

Now, when we're officially educated about it properly without scare tactics and lies, and people understand it, then I do not have any objections with it being legal. Until then, it should not be a crime to possess it in smaller quantities.

 

 

 

You wanna know why America has it's alcohol and drug policies, the Christians who run the government. As much as the words separation of church and state are shoved in everyone's faces, how often is it actually separate. Take our marriage laws for example, homosexuals can't get married because it is a christian viewpoint that stops it. Before I get carried away with my conspiracy theories, I would like to state that I agree on the whole America needs to get unbrainwashed thing, before marijuana should be legalized.

 

 

 

On topic: This man is an embarrassment to fat people everywhere. He's almost as bad as the fat people that use handicap parking spaces. Fat people, get off your fat lazy [wagon] and go for a walk, not to the fridge.

 

 

 

Oh I see, so you use this as a conduit to attack Christianity and religion? It's about money, it's not about religion. Marriage I will agree with, but not drugs.

[/hide]

 

Meh. I said what I said. Doesn't change the fact that the lack of separation is ruining America.

[Lenticular_J]

Yes, the lack of separation of church and state is a major flaw of this country. And that's coming from a strong-faithed Christian.

[stan18]

is anyone else wondering how he got fat in the first place, considering the fact that hes been in jail since 86? (or something like that)

[silver_wits]

not too sure if this went already... but...

 

 

 

electric shock.

 

beheading.

 

stabbing 53 times in the chest cavity.

 

raping and bleeding to death.

 

 

 

 

 

yea... sorry.. I just dislike seeing someone not get convicted for what he did.

[jackattack]

Yes, the lack of separation of church and state is a major flaw of this country.

 

 

 

Please. It's just the opposite. The aclu goes after anything even remotely religious. Like that football coach who bowed his head during *student led optional prayers*. Or stuff like putting a nativity scene on city property even if there are menorahs already there.

[magekillr]

Yes, the lack of separation of church and state is a major flaw of this country.

 

 

 

Please. It's just the opposite. The aclu goes after anything even remotely religious. Like that football coach who bowed his head during *student led optional prayers*. Or stuff like putting a nativity scene on city property even if there are menorahs already there.

 

 

 

North Carolina's State Constitution, Article 6 Section 8

 

"Disqualifications of office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God."

 

 

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

 

 

 

1st amendment to the US Constitution

 

 

 

 

 

"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding."

 

 

 

- United States Constitution, Article VI

[chi13]

Personally, I think they should just shoot him the head. You're never too fat for that one, am I right xD?

 

 

 

Then again...I think the corpses of death row inmates should be screened for blood borne disease, drained of their blood and stripped of internal organs after death...

[scootlaboot]

Personally, I think they should just shoot him the head. You're never too fat for that one, am I right xD?

 

 

 

Then again...I think the corpses of death row inmates should be screened for blood borne disease, drained of their blood and stripped of internal organs after death...

 

Good idea, but I think it would be more beneficial in the long run to use them in medical research instead of monkeys.

[Will H]

Personally, I'm against the death penalty. I'm not saying that the people don't deserve death, they probably do deserve it, it's just that a far better punishment would be to keep them alive and suffer the misery and consequences of their actions for the rest of their lives. Think of it as 'Death by Life'.

 

 

 

With the death penalty, it leaves too much chance that the experience is too light for the crime. Nobody knows with proof and certainty what happens after death, it's like giving the criminal the 'mystery box', an inappropriate course of action in a time where the idea is to be sure of the criminals punishment.

 

 

 

Anyways, how can anyone work out that for each death penalty carried out, 8 lives are saved? How can you work out that 8 people were not murdered?

[jackattack]

Yes, the lack of separation of church and state is a major flaw of this country.

 

 

 

Please. It's just the opposite. The aclu goes after anything even remotely religious. Like that football coach who bowed his head during *student led optional prayers*. Or stuff like putting a nativity scene on city property even if there are menorahs already there.

 

 

 

North Carolina's State Constitution, Article 6 Section 8

 

"Disqualifications of office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God."

 

 

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

 

 

 

1st amendment to the US Constitution

 

 

 

 

 

"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding."

 

 

 

- United States Constitution, Article VI

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not familiar with the North Caroling state constitituion. If that is in there I'd be willing to bet a pretty penny that it has never been used or the aclu would be all over that. They have way to much time on their hands.

[DaN]

We should just have a pit full of bullants we can throw people into.