The Offical TIF American Elections thread

[Ginger_Warrior]

A 40 hour a week job isn't magical. That's just full time. And this kind of goes full circle with the phrase "Jobs Americans won't do"

 

Like dustbin collectors, cleaners?

 

 

 

How many 40 hours a week jobs do you have in your area involving cleaning? I actually have a compiled list of jobs for 16-19 year olds sat by me now, half of which seem to be for cleaners or pot washers and the like.

 

 

 

Now, one's offering 10.5 hours, here's one for 20, here's another for 1.5 a day... I needn't go on.

 

 

 

I really don't think you have a clue about these people's situations, do you? It's easy to go "get off your [wagon] and work" but when there's no full-time work available, then what?

[chris1216]

 

A 40 hour a week job isn't magical. That's just full time. And this kind of goes full circle with the phrase "Jobs Americans won't do"

 

 

 

Have you ever watched The Wire? The series just ended with the 5th season, and it is probably the best TV show ever made. I think you should check it out.

 

 

 

I have been very slowly learning that very few things in this world are black and white.

[magekillr]

When some American cities' wage disparities are approaching that of Kenya, there is SOMETHING seriously wrong with this picture:

 

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oc ... ban-growth

 

 

 

In a survey of 120 major cities, New York was found to be the ninth most unequal in the world and Atlanta, New Orleans, Washington, and Miami had similar inequality levels to those of Nairobi, Kenya Abidjan and Ivory Coast. Many were above an internationally recognised acceptable "alert" line used to warn governments.

 

 

 

"High levels of inequality can lead to negative social, economic and political consequences that have a destabilising effect on societies," said the report. "[They] create social and political fractures that can develop into social unrest and insecurity."

 

 

 

According to the annual State of the World's cities report from UN-Habitat, race is one of the most important factors determining levels of inequality in the US and Canada.

[Saru Inc]

It is, but not always. And yea, I mean, just because America is pretty well off, doesn't mean, we're equal in every city, though we should be. But Obama really isn't the answer, Capitalism has been proven to work, but not Laissez-Faire.

[Ginger_Warrior]

It is, but not always. And yea, I mean, just because America is pretty well off, doesn't mean, we're equal in every city, though we should be. But Obama really isn't the answer, Capitalism has been proven to work, but not Laissez-Faire.

 

For the love of Christ...

 

 

 

OBAMA IS NOT A SOCIALIST.

 

 

 

In the context of the rest of the world he's still right wing. It's only neo-cons trying to create this impression that Obama's "spreading the wealth" comments are tantamount to Lenin.

 

 

 

Last I checked, he's not calling for the proletariat revolution, he's not calling for the banks and factories to be state-owned, and he's not endorsing free universal healthcare paid for by the taxpayer.

[Saru Inc]

Sorry GW, I didn't mean it like that, but Democrats in general have socialistic *type* of ideals. I'm not saying he;s gonnas get rid of religion and everything or w\e. But even my gov't teacher who's a Democrat says that Republicans have capitalistic forms odf gov't, and Democrats socialistic.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Your gov't teacher has clearly never lived in a socialist country.

 

 

 

The Democrats are a capitalism supporting party. They just don't believe in laissez-faire as much as the Republicans do. That doesn't make them socialist.

 

 

 

Hell, they're to the right of Labour, and these days, even Labour are a right-wing party.

[jackattack]

A 40 hour a week job isn't magical. That's just full time. And this kind of goes full circle with the phrase "Jobs Americans won't do"

 

Like dustbin collectors, cleaners?

 

 

 

How many 40 hours a week jobs do you have in your area involving cleaning? I actually have a compiled list of jobs for 16-19 year olds sat by me now, half of which seem to be for cleaners or pot washers and the like.

 

 

 

Now, one's offering 10.5 hours, here's one for 20, here's another for 1.5 a day... I needn't go on.

 

 

 

I really don't think you have a clue about these people's situations, do you? It's easy to go "get off your [wagon] and work" but when there's no full-time work available, then what?

 

 

 

If there is no work available then there is unemployment insurance. There is almost always work available though.

 

http://www.monster.com/

 

http://www.careerbuilder.com/Default.as ... _us_y_jobs

 

http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

 

 

 

 

 

And if there isn't you can create work yourself. It's really not that hard.

[magekillr]

John McCain currently lying? John McCain selling his soul for politics? John McCain making a 180?

 

 

 

What?

 

 

 

[jackattack]

Wow. You can regurgitate the same things the DNC and Obama campaign are putting out. Well done. =D>

[magekillr]

Wow. You can regurgitate the same things the DNC and Obama campaign are putting out. Well done. =D>

 

 

 

So, if someone posts a news story done by CNN, is that something regurgitated by the media now, too? Dear lord. And, is that your explanation for this?

 

 

 

By the by, as someone who works for this campaign, I do not believe the campaign has touched this.......yet.

[Saru Inc]

Your gov't teacher has clearly never lived in a socialist country.

 

 

 

The Democrats are a capitalism supporting party. They just don't believe in laissez-faire as much as the Republicans do. That doesn't make them socialist.

 

 

 

Hell, they're to the right of Labour, and these days, even Labour are a right-wing party.

 

 

 

 

 

I guess I'm ust explaining this the wrong way. They're not socialists, but their ideas go towards just the general idea of socialism, but actually, Bush has acted pretty socialistic this past month nationalizing banks and such.

[jackattack]

Wow. You can regurgitate the same things the DNC and Obama campaign are putting out. Well done. =D>

 

 

 

So, if someone posts a news story done by CNN, is that something regurgitated by the media now, too? Dear lord. And, is that your explanation for this?

 

 

 

By the by, as someone who works for this campaign, I do not believe the campaign has touched this.......yet.

 

 

 

Dude, it's right off the DNC youtube channel. There's a reason Obama hasn't touched it. There isn't really any contradiction. If McCain was proposing a flat tax there would be but he's not. It's Obama who is trying to undo the Bush tax cuts which made the tax system more progressive.

[Range_This11]

 

If there is no work available then there is unemployment insurance. There is almost always work available though.

 

http://www.monster.com/

 

http://www.careerbuilder.com/Default.as ... _us_y_jobs

 

http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

 

 

 

 

 

And if there isn't you can create work yourself. It's really not that hard.

 

Really, and how many years have you been in the workforce?

 

 

 

Why don't you go tell the thousands of layed off Ford employees to get off their lazy [wagon] and get a job. How about the guys working the graveyard shift in a machine factory through a temp service trying to support their families to "go create some work for themselves". In fact, why don't you come all the way to my house and tell my Dad that too. When his company layed him off and he was forced to go back to school, he found out it was a little tough. He came out of school and had to work temp jobs for nearly 5 months before he finally found an INTERNSHIP for his field. Still without pay. Take your elitist "pull oneself up by his own bootsraps" theories and shove them up your middle-class-sheltered-life [wagon].

[Ginger_Warrior]

And if there isn't you can create work yourself. It's really not that hard.

 

How exactly do you go about that when you're poor and struggling to make ends meet? It's not like you can just make a business for yourself in the current economic climate where you can't even get a mortgage, nevermind a loan to sustain a small business.

 

 

 

For the matter, I don't know why you're bothering to reference those job searching websites. The list I quoted was compiled from those sites and more. There is a problem with unemployment and poverty, and it boils down to more than "laziness", especially in an economic climate where jobs are drying up like no one's business.

 

 

 

Will you just step out of your ivory towers and start talking about other people with the respect they deserve as fellow human beings?

[magekillr]

I just don't understand the obsession with possessions...what is the point in owning so much, while so many own so little? If everyone could own a lot, alright, fine...go pour your soul into vanity filled adventures with an overwhelming amount of [cabbage]. In reality, there must be poor for there to be rich.

 

 

 

Why can't people just be happy with learning new things, educating others, feeding people, water, shelter...and just living and talking? Is there seriously more to life than that? I sure don't see any other purposes.

 

 

 

My theoretical beliefs would embody communism; no private ownership. Reality would place some private ownership, some public, while emphasizing the need to help the poor. Sweden and Finland are two countries that embody my realistic beliefs.

 

 

 

I just want this election to be over, and to graduate so I can begin paying off my loans. If it wasn't for the need to be a skilled worker in order to successfully emigrate, I wouldn't have even went to University in the United States.

[Faux]

That's too much magekillr.

 

 

 

The reason why that concept won't work is because humanity is essentially faulty. Most people are lazy and will take advantage of that system. Work? What's the point of working when you can sit on your [wagon] and still have equal quality of life with some loser who works 40 hours a week?

 

 

 

Sweden and Finland are successful, yeah because these countries are so small, their population are 10M and 5M people respectively. Their system will not support a considerably bigger population. Look at Britain. They are nowhere near the socialist-level of those Scandinavian countries and yet we hear horror stories about how people take advantage of welfare.

 

 

 

Maybe if we just believe in Jesus for a bit then maybe we can dream of heaven exactly how you described it, haha.

[magekillr]

I don't think it's abused as much as you'd like to think, that's a small minority.

 

 

 

Anyway, I know that THAT degree can't work in a country as large as the US, but it can still be more socialist than it is (a lot more).

 

 

 

I know I can't get what I want here, and even as much as I work for it, it cannot happen (in this life time). It's why I want to get an internship this summer with BAE systems, as they have a headquarters located in Sweden. If I work for them for a little bit, hopefully moving to Sweden will be as easy as 1,2,3. I already talked to the interviewer, and she told me to email her in November.

 

 

 

Obama is "no friend to socialists":

 

 

 

http://socialistworker.org/2008/10/24/a ... hite-house

[Deiophobus]

Finland is the country I admire the most in the world.

 

 

 

I've noticed that this whole "he's a socialist" thing seems to be the main attack plan of republicans now, at least the ones I've met.

[Ginger_Warrior]

I know I can't get what I want here, and even as much as I work for it, it cannot happen (in this life time). It's why I want to get an internship this summer with BAE systems, as they have a headquarters located in Sweden. If I work for them for a little bit, hopefully moving to Sweden will be as easy as 1,2,3. I already talked to the interviewer, and she told me to email her in November

 

A word of advice. BAE don't [bleep] around. You step out of line once during the selection process, and you can kiss the job goodbye. There's a local base near Preston, where some people from my high school applied for an apprenticeship. A couple were late for their interviews by about 2 or 3 seconds, and they were turned down at the door.

 

 

 

If she says email her in November, email her next Saturday. ;)

[magekillr]

I know I can't get what I want here, and even as much as I work for it, it cannot happen (in this life time). It's why I want to get an internship this summer with BAE systems, as they have a headquarters located in Sweden. If I work for them for a little bit, hopefully moving to Sweden will be as easy as 1,2,3. I already talked to the interviewer, and she told me to email her in November

 

A word of advice. BAE don't [bleep] around. You step out of line once during the selection process, and you can kiss the job goodbye. There's a local base near Preston, where some people from my high school applied for an apprenticeship. A couple were late for their interviews by about 2 or 3 seconds, and they were turned down at the door.

 

 

 

If she says email her in November, email her next Saturday. ;)

 

 

 

Hmmm, thanks for the tip. She seemed really interested when she gave me her email. I also think I stand a better shot because she said they're desperate for people out in Mojave, California. No one that was offered the job to go there last year took it...people don't make any sense. When I told her I'd be willing to go anywhere they wanted, she sounded extremely excited. Working for BAE is my dream job...or Boeing/Airbus. BAE seems like the best option as they have an office located in Sweden, though. I wish the US was bigger with apprenticeships... get paid to earn your degree, and have a guaranteed job? (although taking longer)

 

 

 

Back to the topic :

[Saru Inc]

I just don't understand the obsession with possessions...what is the point in owning so much, while so many own so little? If everyone could own a lot, alright, fine...go pour your soul into vanity filled adventures with an overwhelming amount of [cabbage]. In reality, there must be poor for there to be rich.

 

 

 

Why can't people just be happy with learning new things, educating others, feeding people, water, shelter...and just living and talking? Is there seriously more to life than that? I sure don't see any other purposes.

 

 

 

My theoretical beliefs would embody communism; no private ownership. Reality would place some private ownership, some public, while emphasizing the need to help the poor. Sweden and Finland are two countries that embody my realistic beliefs.

 

 

 

I just want this election to be over, and to graduate so I can begin paying off my loans. If it wasn't for the need to be a skilled worker in order to successfully emigrate, I wouldn't have even went to University in the United States.

 

 

 

 

 

Shadowfax hit it quite nicely, there's no reason to work, in a communistic country.

 

 

 

Also, Communism is an idealist thing, as are most Democrats, everyone thinks it's a good idea, but it's never really worked.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Nah. It's not like it prepared Russia for the biggest land battle in the History of mankind or anything, or do in twenty years what took the UK the best part of 200. :roll:

[l0l0lpur32]

How many people have being killed in communist regimes worldwide? Almost 100m isn't it?

[dangeresque]

How many people have being killed in communist regimes worldwide? Almost 100m isn't it?

 

Communist regimes and Socialism in civil and built up countries is quite different. Not that I like socialism by any means, just letting you know that before you get torn to bits for saying that :-#.