The Offical TIF American Elections thread

[Lenticular_J]

 

News wise, about 65-45 (45 being Conservative)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You do realise that is 110% right?

 

 

 

Some people take both sides.

[Saru Inc]

 

News wise, about 65-45 (45 being Conservative)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You do realise that is 110% right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, oops I meant 55-45, lol. XD

[magekillr]

 

 

I'm pretty much alright with torture even though it's only been done 3 times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you're a Christian...wtf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you even read any of what Jesus said?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes. I' don't pretend to be perfect. I don't think 9/11 is something I can turn the other cheek to and if giving someone who has already plotter the murder of thousands a dunk in water for less than a minute can potentially stop another attack or help us capture Bin Laden I would say go for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another typical American fallacy. Let me tell you something: as much as Barack harps about catching Bin Laden, I think he's either a.) pandering to get elected or b.) being just as idiotic about this as many other Americans. I seriously doubt it's the latter. Capturing Bin Laden will do nothing, and killing him could be even worse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You want to end terrorism? Stop it at the source: end their recruitment.

[michel555555]

edit> decided to delet. this this thread has already gotten so far from the topic and this will just make a bigger flame war even though its a fact and americans on this forum seem to have a repulsion for facts and morality

[jackattack]

^^ Just spouting random things doesn't make them facts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty much alright with torture even though it's only been done 3 times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you're a Christian...wtf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you even read any of what Jesus said?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes. I' don't pretend to be perfect. I don't think 9/11 is something I can turn the other cheek to and if giving someone who has already plotter the murder of thousands a dunk in water for less than a minute can potentially stop another attack or help us capture Bin Laden I would say go for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another typical American fallacy. Let me tell you something: as much as Barack harps about catching Bin Laden, I think he's either a.) pandering to get elected or b.) being just as idiotic about this as many other Americans. I seriously doubt it's the latter. Capturing Bin Laden will do nothing, and killing him could be even worse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You want to end terrorism? Stop it at the source: end their recruitment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't say killing him would end terrorism. I think it would slow their activites but in the long run it probably wouldn't do much. There isn't much of the pre-9/11 Al Qaida leadership left anyway. I just want to get the bastard. I would say torturing the man who masterminded 9/11 and killed thousands for less than 1 minute would be worth killing Bin Laden.

[michel555555]

$700 Billion dollars will be completely made back, and I actually am proud of that because the Senate and House(except the Speaker) were able to come together and take decisive action when the President called on them. And the President can not sign a bill without it coming through congress. So I don't know what you are talking about. I'm pretty much alright with torture even though it's only been done 3 times. You probably shouldn't watch michael moore movies dude.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

first off you seriously believe that only 3 people have been tortured??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

second "the bush years" is not a micheal moor movie and was made by both members of bushes own party and the opposition. watch it before you critisize it. it a documentory about bushes life not a slander fest. it has everything from how his father treated him when he grew up to the pastor that got him to stop drinking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

third. i'll say this again so it goes through that skull. how do you expect a country that is already trillions of dollars in debt to pay for a 700bil dollar bail out??????????? there are two choices either bring manufactoring jobs back to america so the country will actually start to make money(fat chance). second is to raises the taxes of every tax payer by thousands of dollars each!!

 

 

 

now then lets look at it this way. make the corporations who fund your campains angry because they lose cash by bringing jobs back to america. or just raise taxes and pay off the bailout and keep your supporters happy as well? not that that will make the people happy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ignorant americans. but then again someone once said ignorance is bliss.

[jackattack]

 

$700 Billion dollars will be completely made back, and I actually am proud of that because the Senate and House(except the Speaker) were able to come together and take decisive action when the President called on them. And the President can not sign a bill without it coming through congress. So I don't know what you are talking about. I'm pretty much alright with torture even though it's only been done 3 times. You probably shouldn't watch michael moore movies dude.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

first off you seriously believe that only 3 people have been tortured??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

second "the bush years" is not a micheal moor movie and was made by both members of bushes own party and the opposition. watch it before you critisize it. it a documentory about bushes life not a slander fest. it has everything from how his father treated him when he grew up to the pastor that got him to stop drinking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

third. i'll say this again so it goes through that skull. how do you expect a country that is already trillions of dollars in debt to pay for a 700bil dollar bail out??????????? there are two choices either bring manufactoring jobs back to america so the country will actually start to make money(fat chance). second is to raises the taxes of every tax payer by thousands of dollars each!!

 

 

 

now then lets look at it this way. make the corporations who fund your campains angry because they lose cash by bringing jobs back to america. or just raise taxes and pay off the bailout and keep your supporters happy as well? not that that will make the people happy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ignorant americans. but then again someone once said ignorance is bliss.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, yes. Only 3 people have ever been waterboarded. One was Khalid Sheik Mohamed who masterminded 9/11. I guess I'll say something again too. The $700 billion will be completely made back by the government. That was built into the legislation. They won't have to raise taxes to pay for it.

[michel555555]

 

 

$700 Billion dollars will be completely made back, and I actually am proud of that because the Senate and House(except the Speaker) were able to come together and take decisive action when the President called on them. And the President can not sign a bill without it coming through congress. So I don't know what you are talking about. I'm pretty much alright with torture even though it's only been done 3 times. You probably shouldn't watch michael moore movies dude.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

first off you seriously believe that only 3 people have been tortured??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

second "the bush years" is not a micheal moor movie and was made by both members of bushes own party and the opposition. watch it before you critisize it. it a documentory about bushes life not a slander fest. it has everything from how his father treated him when he grew up to the pastor that got him to stop drinking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

third. i'll say this again so it goes through that skull. how do you expect a country that is already trillions of dollars in debt to pay for a 700bil dollar bail out??????????? there are two choices either bring manufactoring jobs back to america so the country will actually start to make money(fat chance). second is to raises the taxes of every tax payer by thousands of dollars each!!

 

 

 

now then lets look at it this way. make the corporations who fund your campains angry because they lose cash by bringing jobs back to america. or just raise taxes and pay off the bailout and keep your supporters happy as well? not that that will make the people happy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ignorant americans. but then again someone once said ignorance is bliss.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, yes. Only 3 people have ever been waterboarded. One was Khalid Sheik Mohamed who masterminded 9/11. I guess I'll say something again too. The $700 billion will be completely made back by the government. That was built into the legislation. They won't have to raise taxes to pay for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

o for the love of god.... i'm not even going to get in to the facts about torture because anyone with the internet knows that thats a blatant lie. and for your info do you seriously believe that only water boarding counts as torture? theres puting someone through hot cold extremes, having a military police/guard dog unmuzeld barking in your face and having someone threaten to release him if you don't talk, stressful body positions.i can go on and on and all of this is brought to you by the friendly spanish inquisition. god its good to be out of the dark ages.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

now then someone with an economics degree tell him its physically imposable to make 700billion dollars apear out of thin air!!!!!!!! and that someone, somewhere is going to have to pay that back

[jackattack]

 

 

 

$700 Billion dollars will be completely made back, and I actually am proud of that because the Senate and House(except the Speaker) were able to come together and take decisive action when the President called on them. And the President can not sign a bill without it coming through congress. So I don't know what you are talking about. I'm pretty much alright with torture even though it's only been done 3 times. You probably shouldn't watch michael moore movies dude.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

first off you seriously believe that only 3 people have been tortured??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

second "the bush years" is not a micheal moor movie and was made by both members of bushes own party and the opposition. watch it before you critisize it. it a documentory about bushes life not a slander fest. it has everything from how his father treated him when he grew up to the pastor that got him to stop drinking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

third. i'll say this again so it goes through that skull. how do you expect a country that is already trillions of dollars in debt to pay for a 700bil dollar bail out??????????? there are two choices either bring manufactoring jobs back to america so the country will actually start to make money(fat chance). second is to raises the taxes of every tax payer by thousands of dollars each!!

 

 

 

now then lets look at it this way. make the corporations who fund your campains angry because they lose cash by bringing jobs back to america. or just raise taxes and pay off the bailout and keep your supporters happy as well? not that that will make the people happy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ignorant americans. but then again someone once said ignorance is bliss.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, yes. Only 3 people have ever been waterboarded. One was Khalid Sheik Mohamed who masterminded 9/11. I guess I'll say something again too. The $700 billion will be completely made back by the government. That was built into the legislation. They won't have to raise taxes to pay for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

o for the love of god.... i'm not even going to get in to the facts about torture because anyone with the internet knows that thats a blatant lie.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

now then someone with an economics degree tell him its physically imposable to make 700billion dollars apear out of thin air!!!!!!!! and that someone, somewhere is going to have to pay that back

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Were you paying attention to anything when they passed that bill dude? The taxpayers are on the hook for nothing. That was put into the legislation in the House. Read the bill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm with Ted Poe on this one. But if you count waterboarding as torture I guess...

 

 

 

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2 ... arding.php

[michel555555]

why why why did i get into this debate when americans are to ignorant to even listen to reason. for the love of god theres more to torture than water boarding!!!!!!! stress postions, hot cold extremes, having rabid animals threatened to be released on you when you don't speak. having someone actually torture your family in front of you. all of this is brought to you by the spanish inquisition, god its good to be out of the dark ages.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and for the love of god someone with a degree in economics explain the bailout to him or i will and my language is going to be more colourfull

[jackattack]

why why why did i get into this debate when americans are to ignorant to even listen to reason. for the love of god theres more to torture than water boarding!!!!!!! stress postions, hot cold extremes, having rabid animals threatened to be released on you when you don't speak. having someone actually torture your family in front of you. all of this is brought to you by the spanish inquisition, god its good to be out of the dark ages.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and for the love of god someone with a degree in economics degree explain the bailout to him or i will and my language is going to be more colourfull

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those wouldn't qualify as torture. Dogs might but the rest are classified as degrading treatment I think. There might be a level below that even though. And It's in the text of the bill that all of the money will be recouped. That is the law now. It's not that complicado.

[michel555555]

 

why why why did i get into this debate when americans are to ignorant to even listen to reason. for the love of god theres more to torture than water boarding!!!!!!! stress postions, hot cold extremes, having rabid animals threatened to be released on you when you don't speak. having someone actually torture your family in front of you. all of this is brought to you by the spanish inquisition, god its good to be out of the dark ages.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and for the love of god someone with a degree in economics degree explain the bailout to him or i will and my language is going to be more colourfull

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those wouldn't qualify as torture. Dogs might but the rest are classified as degrading treatment I think. There might be a level below that even though. And It's in the text of the bill that all of the money will be recouped. That is the law now. It's not that complicado.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:wall: :wall: seriously anyone else feel like this is talking to a brick wall???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ok lets try an experament, winters coming soon this is what i want you to do. tie yourself to a metal post outside so your forced to put intese strain on your back. take off all your cloths and lets see if you don't think thats torture. and the very deffinition of torture is .... can't believe i'm even explaining it...... the act of inflicting excruitiating mental or physical pain as a means to get a confession or information or merely for the cruelty of it.....now then is letting someone think that a rabid dog is going to maul you considered mental anguish? is letting your own family be tortured in front of you considered mental anguish??? lets see, put you hand on the hot stove....does it hurt???..need i go on?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and since no one with any sense in economics is posting i will instead. ok lets go slow....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

first. america has no money to loan!!! its over 10 trillion dollars in debt and the only way for them to get more money is either raise taxes or print more money which will cause inflation which...plz tell me i don't need to explain that even to u

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

with me so far... ok phase two, the government then gives(take out that dicitionary, turn to the gs.....ok you find it?? now compare that to the word loan....no, no not roam, loan...notice anything?? like maby the fact that the word loan actually requires you to give something back) to every major bank. even though they have no money in the first place so is actually just adding to the already 10 trillion dollar debt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ok focus.. now then, now that these massive coroporations have these billions of dolars what have they done so far? last i checked one of them spent 500k on a massive 3 day spa trip for all its high ranking staff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what they should be doing is, o i don't know... maby get jobs that actually will make money to come back to america. instead there just paying off debts that they owe in the first place. this isn't going to fix anything!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ok lets take out the cards...(i said i'd use more colorful language)

 

 

 

say mr happy here> :thumbsup: has a failing buisness thats losing 100 dollars per month

 

 

 

mr green here> :mrgreen: loans mr happy 100 dollars to pay off the debt but expects to get money back

 

 

 

:thumbsup: pays off his first debt but because of the loan from :mrgreen:

 

 

 

now then heres the problem :thumbsup: still has to pay $100 a month because that loan only paid for the first debt and didn't acttualy fix the original problem.

 

 

 

:mrgreen: comes calling for his cash only to find out that :thumbsup: is even farther in debt then before. not willing to lose his evestment he then loans :thumbsup: more and more money, which still gets nowhere because the money is just paying for debts

 

 

 

eventually :mrgreen: runs out of money himself and has to borrow from someone els lets call him mr red> :twisted:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you getting it yet? this bailout is only paying off debts that the banks owe in the first place. there will be no money to return to the government because the problems that caused the banks to go under are still there (the mortage crisis, the credit crises, the fact that america owes 10 trillion dollars already, the fact that america has virtually no manufactureing to actually make money.) once all the debts are paid off this will all start over again because there is no cash left over to fix the problems that caused this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

this will lead to the two things stated above. either the governement will be forced to print more money(inflation where eventually a choc bar will cost 1000 dollars can't wait) or it will have to raise taxes. period end of discusion there is no light at the end of this tunnel. america is still going to go into a depression.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ask any economist who has any sense. these are the only possible outcomes of the bailout.

[jackattack]

Only 3 terrorists were waterboarded and only 30 prisoners of CIA ever saw any kind of coercive interrogation. And the UN has different definitions of torture which I don't think include stress positions or temperatures. Those would be under a different category. And frankly I don't care. I think that if anybody has information that could save lives they should do whatever it takes to get the information short of harming the guys family.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And go to House.Gov and look up the bill. It is in the text dude. It's House Resolution 1424. Why would I make that up? It was the democrats who put it in.

[michel555555]

Only 3 terrorists were waterboarded and only 30 prisoners of CIA ever saw any kind of coercive interrogation. And the UN has different definitions of torture which I don't think include stress positions or temperatures. Those would be under a different category. And frankly I don't care. I think that if anybody has information that could save lives they should do whatever it takes to get the information short of harming the guys family.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And go to House.Gov and look up the bill. It is in the text dude. It's House Resolution 1424. Why would I make that up? It was the democrats who put it in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ok your worse then a wall. a wall doesn't talk back.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

arn't you getting it they !!!!!!!!can't!!!!!! pay back any money that they are given because all that money is going to paying off debts and is not actually being invested in making more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and these are under the un's definition of torture. google it!!! look at how several un human rights overseers are being kicked out of gitmo because of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

torture doesn't work!!!!

 

 

 

tortureres won't stop if you say you know nothing a million times!!!! they are after information that they believe correct even though there is no evidence to support it. people answer torturers because they think its what they want and will end there pain not because its the truth. if i were to waterboard you a million times to get you to say your mom is an alien you'll say it not because its the truth but because it will end the pain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i'm not going to post on this thread anymore because you just are not listening to reason and humanity and is just turning into a flame fest

[Lenticular_J]

Yeah, because if it's on the Internet, it's certainly right. Damn us, we must be the ones sending mudkips across the world.

[magekillr]

Wow, what a load of spam.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, as much as I cannot stand Christopher Hitchens, here is why the Republican ticket is anti-science:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In an election that has been fought on an astoundingly low cultural and intellectual level, with both candidates pretending that tax cuts can go like peaches and cream with the staggering new levels of federal deficit, and paltry charges being traded in petty ways, and with Joe the Plumber becoming the emblematic stupidity of the campaign, it didn't seem possible that things could go any lower or get any dumber. But they did last Friday, when, at a speech in Pittsburgh, Gov. Sarah Palin denounced wasteful expenditure on fruit-fly research, adding for good xenophobic and anti-elitist measure that some of this research took place "in Paris, France" and winding up with a folksy "I kid you not."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was in 1933 that Thomas Hunt Morgan won a Nobel Prize for showing that genes are passed on by way of chromosomes. The experimental creature that he employed in the making of this great discovery was the Drosophila melanogaster, or fruit fly. Scientists of various sorts continue to find it a very useful resource, since it can be easily and plentifully "cultured" in a laboratory, has a very short generation time, and displays a great variety of mutation. This makes it useful in studying disease, and since Gov. Palin was in Pittsburgh to talk about her signature "issue" of disability and special needs, she might even have had some researcher tell her that there is a Drosophila-based center for research into autism at the University of North Carolina. The fruit fly can also be a menace to American agriculture, so any financing of research into its habits and mutations is money well-spent. It's especially ridiculous and unfortunate that the governor chose to make such a fool of herself in Pittsburgh, a great city that remade itself after the decline of coal and steel into a center of high-tech medical research.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In this case, it could be argued, Palin was not just being a fool in her own right but was following a demagogic lead set by the man who appointed her as his running mate. Sen. John McCain has made repeated use of an anti-waste and anti-pork ad (several times repeated and elaborated in his increasingly witless speeches) in which the expenditure of $3 million to study the DNA of grizzly bears in Montana was derided as "unbelievable." As an excellent article in the Feb. 8, 2008, Scientific American pointed out, there is no way to enforce the Endangered Species Act without getting some sort of estimate of numbers, and the best way of tracking and tracing the elusive grizzly is by setting up barbed-wire hair-snagging stations that painlessly take samples from the bears as they lumber by and then running the DNA samples through a laboratory. The cost is almost trivial compared with the importance of understanding this species, and I dare say the project will yield results in the measurement of other animal populations as well, but all McCain could do was be flippant and say that he wondered whether it was a "paternity" or "criminal" issue that the Fish and Wildlife Service was investigating. (Perhaps those really are the only things that he associates in his mind with DNA.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With Palin, however, the contempt for science may be something a little more sinister than the bluff, empty-headed plain-man's philistinism of McCain. We never get a chance to ask her in detail about these things, but she is known to favor the teaching of creationism in schools (smuggling this crazy idea through customs in the innocent disguise of "teaching the argument," as if there was an argument), and so it is at least probable that she believes all creatures from humans to fruit flies were created just as they are now. This would make DNA or any other kind of research pointless, whether conducted in Paris or not. Projects such as sequencing the DNA of the flu virus, the better to inoculate against it, would not need to be funded. We could all expire happily in the name of God. Gov. Palin also says that she doesn't think humans are responsible for global warming; again, one would like to ask her whether, like some of her co-religionists, she is a "premillenial dispensationalist"in other words, someone who believes that there is no point in protecting and preserving the natural world, since the end of days will soon be upon us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Videos taken in the Assembly of God church in Wasilla, Alaska, which she used to attend, show her nodding as a preacher says that Alaska will be "one of the refuge states in the Last Days." For the uninitiated, this is a reference to a crackpot belief, widely held among those who brood on the "End Times," that some parts of the world will end at different times from others, and Alaska will be a big draw as the heavens darken on account of its wide open spaces. An article by Laurie Goodstein in the New York Times gives further gruesome details of the extreme Pentecostalism with which Palin has been associated in the past (perhaps moderating herself, at least in public, as a political career became more attractive). High points, also available on YouTube, show her being "anointed" by an African bishop who claims to cast out witches. The term used in the trade for this hysterical superstitious nonsense is "spiritual warfare," in which true Christian soldiers are trained to fight demons. Palin has spoken at "spiritual warfare" events as recently as June. And only last week the chiller from Wasilla spoke of "prayer warriors" in a radio interview with James Dobson of Focus on the Family, who said that he and his lovely wife, Shirley, had convened a prayer meeting to beseech that "God's perfect will be done on Nov. 4."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is what the Republican Party has done to us this year: It has placed within reach of the Oval Office a woman who is a religious fanatic and a proud, boastful ignoramus. Those who despise science and learning are not anti-elitist. They are morally and intellectually slothful people who are secretly envious of the educated and the cultured. And those who prate of spiritual warfare and demons are not just "people of faith" but theocratic bullies. On Nov. 4, anyone who cares for the Constitution has a clear duty to repudiate this wickedness and stupidity.

[greene8535]

It might look like Obama's gonna pwn the election, from looking at the poll. But, think about the audience that uses TIF? A lot of younger people 30- (But still older pepz) And it is that group of people that Obama really appeals too.

 

 

 

FYI: Readers Digest did a nation wide poll; Mccain won 38% to 36%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Funny thing, they also polled like 30 other countries, Obama won in ALL of them!)

[Lordjake]

It might look like Obama's gonna pwn the election, from looking at the poll. But, think about the audience that uses TIF? A lot of younger people 30- (But still older pepz) And it is that group of people that Obama really appeals too.

 

 

 

FYI: Readers Digest did a nation wide poll; Mccain won 38% to 36%

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are plenty of nationwide polls out there to choose from. Majority of them conclude that Obama has an ~8 point nationwide lead, while others have the lead being higher/lower.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the Reader's Digest poll you're referring to was taken over 4 months ago, so you can't exactly conclude that McCain is winning today by 2%.

 

 

 

The DJI was 'only' down 8% on the year then, while its down 40% today, so you can see how things can change.

[dsavi]

(Funny thing, they also polled like 30 other countries, Obama won in ALL of them!)

 

 

 

And I know why.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's just say that the GOP doesn't have the crappiest shred of respect outside of the US, because of Bush's foreign policy.

[Lenticular_J]

Article and such.

 

 

 

Was that article by Christopher Walken? I don't really know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But while it was well-written, all it was was someone [bleep]ing about others' beliefs. I'm sure to the writer or anyone that agrees with it it's a hard-hitting and factual argument, but it really is just whining about her beliefs. I mean, Obama used to belong to a crazier church than what they say Palin once attended.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah well. It's always common for reporters to say everyone's taking a low road while they criticize however they can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did like some of the stuff that talked about how crappy and low in general this year's campaign is, though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Funny thing, they also polled like 30 other countries, Obama won in ALL of them!)

 

 

 

And I know why.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let's just say that the GOP doesn't have the crappiest shred of respect outside of the US, because of Bush's foreign policy.

 

 

 

Plus, Europe is quite liberal. Even though liberal to us Americans is very, very different from European liberal, as far as I can tell Obama is the lesser of two evils. Him being quite the public speaker is also a key point for foreign countries. Let's just hope that he doesn't take Biden with him if he ever tries to be "Best Public Speaking Team of the World".

[magekillr]

 

Article and such.

 

 

 

Was that article by Christopher Walken? I don't really know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But while it was well-written, all it was was someone [bleep] about others' beliefs. I'm sure to the writer or anyone that agrees with it it's a hard-hitting and factual argument, but it really is just whining about her beliefs. I mean, Obama used to belong to a crazier church than what they say Palin once attended.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah well. It's always common for reporters to say everyone's taking a low road while they criticize however they can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did like some of the stuff that talked about how crappy and low in general this year's campaign is, though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was written by Christopher Hitchens, a known Neo-conservative. He endorsed Bush in 2000 and 2004.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No church tops fundamentalist Christians that bring in Jews for Jesus and witch doctors, sorry. Attacking anyone on the grounds of their church is kind of stupid to begin with, but he's attacking the church's beliefs in a young Earth, not necessarily the church itself.

[Lenticular_J]

Ah, okay. I looked up that church and read the article a few more times. Relatively interesting, but I doubt it would sway anyone or anything like that.

[dsavi]

fdafdas

[megakiller32]

It might look like Obama's gonna pwn the election, from looking at the poll. But, think about the audience that uses TIF? A lot of younger people 30- (But still older pepz) And it is that group of people that Obama really appeals too.

 

 

 

FYI: Readers Digest did a nation wide poll; Mccain won 38% to 36%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Funny thing, they also polled like 30 other countries, Obama won in ALL of them!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OH MY GOD! A MCCAIN SUPPORTER!

 

 

 

QUICK EVERYBODY GRAB THE PITCHFORKS! LIGHT UP THE FIRES! GET THE STAKES READY! STONE HIIIIIMM!

 

 

 

Don't get too offended. Its a joke.

[frogact]

I voted Saturday for McCain who I consider to be the lesser of two evils. I've never felt so much tension in a voting line. It was very quiet.