The Offical TIF American Elections thread

[jackattack]

What are you talking about dude? Seriously. Do you know anything about any of the subjects you just posted about? Nothing you said even makes sense.

[michel555555]

let me clear this up for you range is stating that he hates americans saruman is telling him how he should be proud to live in america. everything i just posted are facts about america,no matter how much americans whish to deny them, and this is supposed to be the country saruman said we should be proud of. make sense yet??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit: incase your not getting it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

fact #1 america endorses torture. there are many prisoners in gitmo that suffer cruel, inhumane treatment every day. its gotten so bad that human rights activisits and oversight commities are no longer even allowed in gitmo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

fact #2 the presidant himself sighned numerouse bills making spying on american citizens legal, even if they are not even suspected of commiting a crime.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

fact #3 police no longer need any warant or suspision of a crime to search your person or property. bush sighned this bill to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

fact #4 realised that this wasn't as clear in my last post but this is what it sums up to. if your parents are born in the midle east you most likely are on the terrorist watch list and will have a great time trying to fly. search this story.. about how a family was unable to board a plane because their 2 year old was on the terrorist watch list.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

fact #5 if you ever watched the documentory "the bush years" it has alot of info from bushes own party and supporters about him and the fact that several of the bills that he passed never went through congress.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

fact #6 where did you expect that 700 billion dollars will come from from a country that alreay ows over 10 trillion dollars?? the only way that bush will be able to raise that money will be for him to raise taxes. and if you take the 700billion dollars planned and divide it by every tax payer in america you get several thousand dollars worth of taxes that will need to be paid by every tax payer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

make sense now why almost everyone hates america?

[Saru Inc]

Dude, lol?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First off, on your last fact, Obama voted for the bailout. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, so would you really have us not torture anyone (I doubt we even do) in order to save lives?

 

 

 

The Patriot Act is what has kept major terrorist attacks from happening again.

 

 

 

Fact #3 = More bull [cabbage] then ever believed possible. No need of a warrant? What the [bleep]?

 

 

 

Fact #4 = We're taking pre cautions, and you actually believe that doesn't happen in other countries? Well, you're right, because the Muslioms in Europe are completely out of control, there are huge riots all over Europe in the suburbs, people are killed every day, innocents. Woulkd you really want that to come here?

 

 

 

Fact #5 Hey uhh, I don't know if you've ever been in a Social Studies class, but, Bush is the President. The President is in charge of the Executive Branch. The Executive Branch has the same amount of power as the other two. So, he CAN just pass laws by himself. Got it? I mean, that's the equivalent of saying "omg all these laws were passed by Congress and none went to Judicial!!"

 

 

 

#6 = Obama voted for it too, so I don't know what you're talking about. And everyone else hates America, I think, because they're jealous of how well off America is.

[Range_This11]

 

 

 

Then leave God damnit, I'll tell you one thing for sure: Europe ain't any better. Their society in general is crumbling (from what my dad says, he's a reporter) also, you should be PROUD to live here. I'm not saying laugh at less fortunate people in third world countries, but don't be so naive. Be grateful you are in a successful thriving country. Where you, unless you're extremely poor, lazy, or just down right unlucky, will have food on your plate. Be grateful, you can say "[bleep] you George Bush!" And you won't be thrown in jail for 10 years. Be grateful you can be an atheist, and be proudn to be one, and you won't also be thrown in jail for declaring it. Be grateful there's a chance to move up on the ladder of success. Be grateful that school is free. (Before college) Be grateful that we have a form of democracy, and not totalitarianism. Be grateful you can leave the country freely. Be grateful you can say '[bleep] you america' and you won't be jailed for lack of pride in your country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously, it sickens me to see someone say that. Maybe you just live ina piece of [cabbage] town? Ever thought of that? I know a lot of stuck up Europeans, (and nice ones) and a lot of very nice, humble generous Americans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know if you limit your swearing, maybe people would be able to take your argument as educated and serious, but I'll just take it for what it's worth: ranting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Greatest place to live and greatest place are two different terms and should not be mixed. I don't think that you should be 'proud to be an American'. There was just as good of a chance that you would have been born in Venezuela or Jordan. We all are genetic accidents. We did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to be in this country. I think we need to re-title it 'Happy to be an American', because that I definitely am. Pride implies you did something. You didn't. You and everyone else in this country were LUCKY to be Americans.

[magekillr]

This country was founded on the belief of unpopular dissenting opinions. In case you didn't know, the Revolutionary War was not a popular idea, and it only became slightly plausible after Patrick Henry's "Give me liberty, or give me death" speech. The majority of colonists were loyalists. So don't tell me "If you don't like it leave", when my beliefs are more "American" than yours (if anything can actually be labeled as "American").

[jackattack]

You've already said your leaving so you don't need me to tell you. And most of the loyalists did leave.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then leave God damnit, I'll tell you one thing for sure: Europe ain't any better. Their society in general is crumbling (from what my dad says, he's a reporter) also, you should be PROUD to live here. I'm not saying laugh at less fortunate people in third world countries, but don't be so naive. Be grateful you are in a successful thriving country. Where you, unless you're extremely poor, lazy, or just down right unlucky, will have food on your plate. Be grateful, you can say "[bleep] you George Bush!" And you won't be thrown in jail for 10 years. Be grateful you can be an atheist, and be proudn to be one, and you won't also be thrown in jail for declaring it. Be grateful there's a chance to move up on the ladder of success. Be grateful that school is free. (Before college) Be grateful that we have a form of democracy, and not totalitarianism. Be grateful you can leave the country freely. Be grateful you can say '[bleep] you america' and you won't be jailed for lack of pride in your country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously, it sickens me to see someone say that. Maybe you just live ina piece of [cabbage] town? Ever thought of that? I know a lot of stuck up Europeans, (and nice ones) and a lot of very nice, humble generous Americans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know if you limit your swearing, maybe people would be able to take your argument as educated and serious, but I'll just take it for what it's worth: ranting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Greatest place to live and greatest place are two different terms and should not be mixed. I don't think that you should be 'proud to be an American'. There was just as good of a chance that you would have been born in Venezuela or Jordan. We all are genetic accidents. We did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to be in this country. I think we need to re-title it 'Happy to be an American', because that I definitely am. Pride implies you did something. You didn't. You and everyone else in this country were LUCKY to be Americans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't do anything to be an American but a hell of a lot of people I have never met did. And I'm proud of them and this country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

let me clear this up for you range is stating that he hates americans saruman is telling him how he should be proud to live in america. everything i just posted are facts about america,no matter how much americans whish to deny them, and this is supposed to be the country saruman said we should be proud of. make sense yet??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit: incase your not getting it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

fact #1 america endorses torture. there are many prisoners in gitmo that suffer cruel, inhumane treatment every day. its gotten so bad that human rights activisits and oversight commities are no longer even allowed in gitmo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

fact #2 the presidant himself sighned numerouse bills making spying on american citizens legal, even if they are not even suspected of commiting a crime.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

fact #3 police no longer need any warant or suspision of a crime to search your person or property. bush sighned this bill to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

fact #4 realised that this wasn't as clear in my last post but this is what it sums up to. if your parents are born in the midle east you most likely are on the terrorist watch list and will have a great time trying to fly. search this story.. about how a family was unable to board a plane because their 2 year old was on the terrorist watch list.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

fact #5 if you ever watched the documentory "the bush years" it has alot of info from bushes own party and supporters about him and the fact that several of the bills that he passed never went through congress.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

fact #6 where did you expect that 700 billion dollars will come from from a country that alreay ows over 10 trillion dollars?? the only way that bush will be able to raise that money will be for him to raise taxes. and if you take the 700billion dollars planned and divide it by every tax payer in america you get several thousand dollars worth of taxes that will need to be paid by every tax payer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

make sense now why almost everyone hates america?

 

 

 

Police do need warrants to search your home. They have always been able to search your person if there is reasonable suspicion to. They can only listen to you calls if you call a member of Al Qaida overseas. So unless your uncle lives in Waziristan and is a terrorist you should be finr. The $700 Billion dollars will be completely made back, and I actually am proud of that because the Senate and House(except the Speaker) were able to come together and take decisive action when the President called on them. And the President can not sign a bill without it coming through congress. So I don't know what you are talking about. I'm pretty much alright with torture even though it's only been done 3 times. You probably shouldn't watch michael moore movies dude.

[user1991]

I'm pretty much alright with torture even though it's only been done 3 times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you're a Christian...wtf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you even read any of what Jesus said?

[magekillr]

And most of the loyalists did leave.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No they didn't, most of them stayed, but weren't recognized as citizens. The loyalists (you) were the ones that didn't want to change the country and wanted to stay the course. So that is what I meant when I said that in essence, my ideals are more American than yours: following the belief of changing the country despite the opinions being unpopular.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you're a Christian...wtf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why does that matter? Torture is never a problem among Republican Christians...so long as it's against those dirty Muslim terrorists.

[Deiophobus]

I don't understand the American belief that their quality of life, education, social services, etc. are better than European countries.

[Saru Inc]

 

 

 

 

Then leave God damnit, I'll tell you one thing for sure: Europe ain't any better. Their society in general is crumbling (from what my dad says, he's a reporter) also, you should be PROUD to live here. I'm not saying laugh at less fortunate people in third world countries, but don't be so naive. Be grateful you are in a successful thriving country. Where you, unless you're extremely poor, lazy, or just down right unlucky, will have food on your plate. Be grateful, you can say "[bleep] you George Bush!" And you won't be thrown in jail for 10 years. Be grateful you can be an atheist, and be proudn to be one, and you won't also be thrown in jail for declaring it. Be grateful there's a chance to move up on the ladder of success. Be grateful that school is free. (Before college) Be grateful that we have a form of democracy, and not totalitarianism. Be grateful you can leave the country freely. Be grateful you can say '[bleep] you america' and you won't be jailed for lack of pride in your country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously, it sickens me to see someone say that. Maybe you just live ina piece of [cabbage] town? Ever thought of that? I know a lot of stuck up Europeans, (and nice ones) and a lot of very nice, humble generous Americans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know if you limit your swearing, maybe people would be able to take your argument as educated and serious, but I'll just take it for what it's worth: ranting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Greatest place to live and greatest place are two different terms and should not be mixed. I don't think that you should be 'proud to be an American'. There was just as good of a chance that you would have been born in Venezuela or Jordan. We all are genetic accidents. We did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to be in this country. I think we need to re-title it 'Happy to be an American', because that I definitely am. Pride implies you did something. You didn't. You and everyone else in this country were LUCKY to be Americans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry if I get so agrivated by the sheer intolerance and hate and ignorance I see on this board.

[magekillr]

Sorry if I get so agrivated by the sheer intolerance and hate and ignorance I see on this board.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The irony...it's just too much to bear :lol:

[ThurinEthir]

You and everyone else in this country were LUCKY to be Americans.

 

 

 

Well, I moved here. But I'm not American. And I'm not proud of living here.

 

 

 

...I'm helpful.

[dangeresque]

I don't understand the American belief that their quality of life, education, social services, etc. are better than European countries.

 

 

 

But you think you're better that us in those ways ;).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No they didn't, most of them stayed, but weren't recognized as citizens. The loyalists (you) were the ones that didn't want to change the country and wanted to stay the course. So that is what I meant when I said that in essence, my ideals are more American than yours: following the belief of changing the country despite the opinions being unpopular.

 

 

 

True, most of them did stay, alot left but percentage wise alot stayed. But most weren't Loyalists as you previously said (atleast i think :-#) were not the majority, they made up about 20% of the total population. Most were indifferent about the war.

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Loyalist

[Saru Inc]

 

Sorry if I get so agrivated by the sheer intolerance and hate and ignorance I see on this board.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The irony...it's just too much to bear :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

heh, I knew you'd say that. Oh well.

[Deiophobus]

 

I don't understand the American belief that their quality of life, education, social services, etc. are better than European countries.

 

 

 

But you think you're better that us in those ways ;).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But that's because many western/northern European nations do have better qualities of life, per capita incomes, etc..

 

 

 

Even if America did have the best of everything, it's the cocky, cavalier attitude that annoys people. Modesty is a good thing.

[hellbellz]

There was just as good of a chance that you would have been born in Venezuela or Jordan. We all are genetic accidents. We did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to be in this country. I think we need to re-title it 'Happy to be an American', because that I definitely am. Pride implies you did something. You didn't. You and everyone else in this country were LUCKY to be Americans.

 

 

 

I'm off topic here, but you must've gotten that from the late George Carlin. ;)

[Saru Inc]

 

 

 

 

Then leave God damnit, I'll tell you one thing for sure: Europe ain't any better. Their society in general is crumbling (from what my dad says, he's a reporter) also, you should be PROUD to live here. I'm not saying laugh at less fortunate people in third world countries, but don't be so naive. Be grateful you are in a successful thriving country. Where you, unless you're extremely poor, lazy, or just down right unlucky, will have food on your plate. Be grateful, you can say "[bleep] you George Bush!" And you won't be thrown in jail for 10 years. Be grateful you can be an atheist, and be proudn to be one, and you won't also be thrown in jail for declaring it. Be grateful there's a chance to move up on the ladder of success. Be grateful that school is free. (Before college) Be grateful that we have a form of democracy, and not totalitarianism. Be grateful you can leave the country freely. Be grateful you can say '[bleep] you america' and you won't be jailed for lack of pride in your country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously, it sickens me to see someone say that. Maybe you just live ina piece of [cabbage] town? Ever thought of that? I know a lot of stuck up Europeans, (and nice ones) and a lot of very nice, humble generous Americans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know if you limit your swearing, maybe people would be able to take your argument as educated and serious, but I'll just take it for what it's worth: ranting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Greatest place to live and greatest place are two different terms and should not be mixed. I don't think that you should be 'proud to be an American'. There was just as good of a chance that you would have been born in Venezuela or Jordan. We all are genetic accidents. We did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to be in this country. I think we need to re-title it 'Happy to be an American', because that I definitely am. Pride implies you did something. You didn't. You and everyone else in this country were LUCKY to be Americans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you're confused, there's a difference, between having pride in someting, such as being an American. And beign a nationalistic arrogant jerk. It's not rude at all to be proud to live here, that doesn't mean you mock other countries, of course not. But that also doesn't eman yuo move to Past-it's-Prime-Europe just so you can feel better about yourself, I mean, it's a free country, but you'll find, that Europe is a lot different then what you see in the media, I'd know.

[Deiophobus]

 

There was just as good of a chance that you would have been born in Venezuela or Jordan. We all are genetic accidents. We did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to be in this country. I think we need to re-title it 'Happy to be an American', because that I definitely am. Pride implies you did something. You didn't. You and everyone else in this country were LUCKY to be Americans.

 

 

 

I'm off topic here, but you must've gotten that from the late George Carlin. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, some parts are directly quoted :P But it's still true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Saru, how is European society crumbling, and how is it past its prime? I want to know more about your opinion on this.

[Saru Inc]

Here's the thing, at first, it doesn't look like it at all. But it's kind of like Beijing and the olympics, all the toursits see is a awesome lvoely old (but not in a bad way) place. What they don't see are the thousands of people made homeless just to ready the city for the olympics. At first, Europe looks wonderful, and I'm sure parts of it are, but if you detour, I mean really detour, it's quite awful. Radicalists, mainly Muslims, have riots in the suburbs, gang fights are so rampant, in fact, sometimes the police don't go out at all. I'm not blaming just the Muslims, some Atheists too. In fact, did you know, On a scale of 1-10, 5 being directly even, 1 being radical and 10 being a reactionary, if someone is 5.2 they're considered far far right. Infact, my dad interviewd this Atheist, and the Muslims and other Atheists want him dead, simply because he supports Capitalism, which has been proven to work. I saw a video, of 6 teenagers going all over a city in France, cauing up to, I think, like $400,000 of damage, When the police would intervene, they'd send one or two officers, who were easily beaten, then they were killed. The gang would hi jack a car, and if the wrong song was playing on the radio, they'd set it on fire, and jackl a car 5 feet away. It was complete chaos, and some police were watching from far away. I, who had also thought that Europe was doing fine, was shocked when I saw it.

[Bobbington]

[hide=]

 

 

I'm pretty much alright with torture even though it's only been done 3 times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you're a Christian...wtf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you even read any of what Jesus said?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think a religion is any reason to have a set opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally am anti torture.... but is that because torture is wrong? Nope! it's probaly not..... the only reason I feel torture is wrong is because I am brought up in a country where society deems it to be wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the same light you could argue many other "crimes":

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Murder

 

 

 

Rape

 

 

 

theft

 

 

 

Etc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They are only seen as wrong because of the society we live in

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If fifty years ago we had the comment:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty much alright with homosexuality even though it's only been done 3 times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We might have had the same response about Christianity, but it is very unlikely to get that response today (unless you are from certain areas)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whos to say in 50 years time torture is just fine..... I hope it's not but it have nothing todo with religion.[/hide]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On topic: Over here in England most media and politicians seem to massively favour Obama, or media seem to be very biased in his favour, how is the American media portraying it? is there a recognisable swing there?

[Saru Inc]

Liberal, not as in news, if that's what you mean, but in every day - actors, musicians etc. are all massively liberal. News wise, about 65-45 (45 being Conservative)

[dangeresque]

[hide=]

 

 

I'm pretty much alright with torture even though it's only been done 3 times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you're a Christian...wtf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you even read any of what Jesus said?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think a religion is any reason to have a set opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally am anti torture.... but is that because torture is wrong? Nope! it's probaly not..... the only reason I feel torture is wrong is because I am brought up in a country where society deems it to be wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the same light you could argue many other "crimes":

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Murder

 

 

 

Rape

 

 

 

theft

 

 

 

Etc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They are only seen as wrong because of the society we live in

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If fifty years ago we had the comment:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty much alright with homosexuality even though it's only been done 3 times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We might have had the same response about Christianity, but it is very unlikely to get that response today (unless you are from certain areas)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whos to say in 50 years time torture is just fine..... I hope it's not but it have nothing todo with religion.[/hide]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On topic: Over here in England most media and politicians seem to massively favour Obama, or media seem to be very biased in his favour, how is the American media portraying it? is there a recognisable swing there?

 

 

 

Well, there's no doubt that the majority of the media is for Obama, because most of the new agencies and media tend to be democrats/liberal. However there are some stations that are conservative/Republican, or just unbiased. Most of the news stations don't directly come out and say who they support, but they mine as well it's so obvious sometimes -.-.

[Lenticular_J]

On topic: Over here in England most media and politicians seem to massively favour Obama, or media seem to be very biased in his favour, how is the American media portraying it? is there a recognisable swing there?

 

 

 

Eh, after two terms of any President, most of the media and such will be leaning towards the opposite party. This is still a close race, though. Moderately neck and neck, but Obama has a slight lead. Should be quite the election here in a little over the week.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quit arguing over what nation is full of morons and [wagon]. Moron and [wagon] land are full of them. America is full of Americans. Europe is full of Europeans. Australia is full of Australians.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You guys sound like the bitter old folks on Nancy Grace.

[1_man_army]

News wise, about 65-45 (45 being Conservative)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You do realise that is 110% right?

[jackattack]

 

I'm pretty much alright with torture even though it's only been done 3 times.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you're a Christian...wtf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you even read any of what Jesus said?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes. I' don't pretend to be perfect. I don't think 9/11 is something I can turn the other cheek to and if giving someone who has already plotter the murder of thousands a dunk in water for less than a minute can potentially stop another attack or help us capture Bin Laden I would say go for it.