The Offical TIF American Elections thread

[magekillr]

I just don't understand the obsession with possessions...what is the point in owning so much, while so many own so little? If everyone could own a lot, alright, fine...go pour your soul into vanity filled adventures with an overwhelming amount of [cabbage]. In reality, there must be poor for there to be rich.

 

 

 

Why can't people just be happy with learning new things, educating others, feeding people, water, shelter...and just living and talking? Is there seriously more to life than that? I sure don't see any other purposes.

 

 

 

My theoretical beliefs would embody communism; no private ownership. Reality would place some private ownership, some public, while emphasizing the need to help the poor. Sweden and Finland are two countries that embody my realistic beliefs.

 

 

 

I just want this election to be over, and to graduate so I can begin paying off my loans. If it wasn't for the need to be a skilled worker in order to successfully emigrate, I wouldn't have even went to University in the United States.

 

 

 

 

 

Shadowfax hit it quite nicely, there's no reason to work, in a communistic country.

 

 

 

Also, Communism is an idealist thing, as are most Democrats, everyone thinks it's a good idea, but it's never really worked.

 

 

 

That's why I said theoretical beliefs. In reality, I support socialism and capitalism mixed...where the government has part ownership on production.

[jackattack]

^^ Glad to see some people understand "if you don't like it you can get out" Good Luck moving to Finland.

 

 

 

And if there isn't you can create work yourself. It's really not that hard.

 

How exactly do you go about that when you're poor and struggling to make ends meet? It's not like you can just make a business for yourself in the current economic climate where you can't even get a mortgage, nevermind a loan to sustain a small business.

 

 

 

For the matter, I don't know why you're bothering to reference those job searching websites. The list I quoted was compiled from those sites and more. There is a problem with unemployment and poverty, and it boils down to more than "laziness", especially in an economic climate where jobs are drying up like no one's business.

 

 

 

Will you just step out of your ivory towers and start talking about other people with the respect they deserve as fellow human beings?

 

 

 

 

 

Dude, There is plenty of jobs. Why do you think there is an immigration problem? This goes full circle woith "Jobs Americans Won't do". And if there legitimately are no jobs in am area then there is unemployment insurance which the house recently extended.

[magekillr]

Anyone who is interested in Genetics, or biology will get a real kick out of this. Ginger, I know you're Pre-med, so this should make your blood boil:

 

 

 

Palin claimed that the amount that Congress spends on earmarks is more than the shortfall to fully fund IDEA. She then ridiculed some of the projects such as fruit fly research saying they have little or no value:

 

 

 

Where does a lot of that earmark money end up anyway? [] Youve heard about some of these pet projects they really dont make a whole lot of sense and sometimes these dollars go to projects that have little or nothing to do with the public good. Things like fruit fly research in Paris, France. I kid you not.

 

 

 

Without the fruit fly, we would have nowhere near the understanding of genetics that we do today. How can anyone justify this woman? :wall:

 

 

 

How could anyone mock Drosophila research?

[warri0r45]

^^ Glad to see some people understand "if you don't like it you can get out" Good Luck moving to Finland.

 

 

 

God I hate this attitude. You know countries do change with time, Jack, and people have every right to protest things they don't like. I don't suppose you'd like someone telling you to get out of the country should Obama get in and redistribute some income to your utter distaste, would you? Say he did get elected, in reality you should have every right to protest his policy/share your opinion about it, because after all America is a democracy and everyone is allowed a say as to how the country should be run.

 

 

 

Anyone who is interested in Genetics, or biology will get a real kick out of this. Ginger, I know you're Pre-med, so this should make your blood boil:

 

 

 

Palin claimed that the amount that Congress spends on earmarks is more than the shortfall to fully fund IDEA. She then ridiculed some of the projects such as fruit fly research saying they have little or no value:

 

 

 

Where does a lot of that earmark money end up anyway? [] Youve heard about some of these pet projects they really dont make a whole lot of sense and sometimes these dollars go to projects that have little or nothing to do with the public good. Things like fruit fly research in Paris, France. I kid you not.

 

 

 

Without the fruit fly, we would have nowhere near the understanding of genetics that we do today. How can anyone justify this woman? :wall:

 

 

 

How could anyone mock Drosophila research?

 

 

 

Well, that is pretty incredible, but I wouldn't expect people who haven't taken genetics to understand why Drosophila research is important.

[magekillr]

 

Well, that is pretty incredible, but I wouldn't expect people who haven't taken genetics to understand why Drosophila research is important.

 

 

 

She is the one claiming to be an expert on special needs children--said research could be the key to understanding this. Furthermore, if you don't know whether or not research is "important", you shouldn't be making ignorant claims about it ( I know you agree with me, so it's ok).

 

 

 

The Republicans and their anti-science days are about to come to an end.

[Faux]

that's not a fair thing to say. McCain isn't your typical Bible-thumping politician. Heck, it's Obama who is against nuclear energy while McCain supports it. Huge idiocy in Obama's part IMO.

 

 

 

Obama pretty much won the election anyway.

[magekillr]

I said Republicans, I said nothing about McCain. He supports stem-cell research, fine. However, he wants to leave teaching evolution/ID up to the local school districts. He is also "against ear marks", many of which include scientific research like this.

[dangeresque]

I said Republicans, I said nothing about McCain. He supports stem-cell research, fine. However, he wants to leave teaching evolution/ID up to the local school districts. He is also "against ear marks", many of which include scientific research like this.

 

And Obama won't do the same thing? McCain is alot more left than you would think, but running for president you have to represent your party as a whole.

[Saru Inc]

 

Well, that is pretty incredible, but I wouldn't expect people who haven't taken genetics to understand why Drosophila research is important.

 

 

 

She is the one claiming to be an expert on special needs children--said research could be the key to understanding this. Furthermore, if you don't know whether or not research is "important", you shouldn't be making ignorant claims about it ( I know you agree with me, so it's ok).

 

 

 

The Republicans and their anti-science days are about to come to an end.

 

 

 

 

 

You gotta realize, there are atheistic Republicans right? And some of them believe everythinga snotty scientist spits out.

 

 

 

 

 

And besides, I for one, agree with 99%, of science, I think it's majorly just evolution and big bang I have a problem with. While those may seem like big deals, it's my opinion, sorry.

 

 

 

Also, you guys have got to realize, everyone here, just because someone doesn't agree with your opinions, doesn't make them an illogical unintelligent bastard.

[jackattack]

^^ Glad to see some people understand "if you don't like it you can get out" Good Luck moving to Finland.

 

 

 

God I hate this attitude. You know countries do change with time, Jack, and people have every right to protest things they don't like. I don't suppose you'd like someone telling you to get out of the country should Obama get in and redistribute some income to your utter distaste, would you? Say he did get elected, in reality you should have every right to protest his policy/share your opinion about it, because after all America is a democracy and everyone is allowed a say as to how the country should be run.

 

 

 

There is a difference between "I do not like the government and It's policies" and "I hate this evil country and everyone who lives here is a stupid redneck who I am so much better than". I love this country no matter who is elected. It might become my life's goal to unseat Nancy Pelosi or Jackie Speier but that is different from Hollywood typed who say "If McCain is elected I'm moving to Canada" If someone really hates America, as Magekillr has made crystal clear plenty of times, then they should leave. I think there is a reason the immigration problem is people coming in and not leaving though.

[magekillr]

I said Republicans, I said nothing about McCain. He supports stem-cell research, fine. However, he wants to leave teaching evolution/ID up to the local school districts. He is also "against ear marks", many of which include scientific research like this.

 

And Obama won't do the same thing? McCain is alot more left than you would think, but running for president you have to represent your party as a whole.

 

 

 

Nope, he won't. Did you read the differences in their interviews with scientific publications? McCain is completely anti-Science.

 

 

 

I think it's majorly just evolution and big bang I have a problem with. While those may seem like big deals, it's my opinion, sorry.

 

 

 

Why do you single out evolution? I'm sorry that it's only the single greatest thing that has come to Biology...

[dangeresque]

I said Republicans, I said nothing about McCain. He supports stem-cell research, fine. However, he wants to leave teaching evolution/ID up to the local school districts. He is also "against ear marks", many of which include scientific research like this.

 

And Obama won't do the same thing? McCain is alot more left than you would think, but running for president you have to represent your party as a whole.

 

 

 

Nope, he won't. Did you read the differences in their interviews with scientific publications? McCain is completely anti-Science.

 

 

 

I think it's majorly just evolution and big bang I have a problem with. While those may seem like big deals, it's my opinion, sorry.

 

 

 

Why do you single out evolution? I'm sorry that it's only the single greatest thing that has come to Biology...

 

McCain might be anti-science to an extent but he most definatly won't ban the teaching of evlution or the big bang theory.

[jackattack]

I said Republicans, I said nothing about McCain. He supports stem-cell research, fine. However, he wants to leave teaching evolution/ID up to the local school districts. He is also "against ear marks", many of which include scientific research like this.

 

And Obama won't do the same thing? McCain is alot more left than you would think, but running for president you have to represent your party as a whole.

 

 

 

Nope, he won't. Did you read the differences in their interviews with scientific publications? McCain is completely anti-Science.

 

 

 

I think it's majorly just evolution and big bang I have a problem with. While those may seem like big deals, it's my opinion, sorry.

 

 

 

Why do you single out evolution? I'm sorry that it's only the single greatest thing that has come to Biology...

 

 

 

How can you say McCain is anti science? What are you talking about? Have you heard of the McCain-Lieberman climate stewardship act? He isn't a creationist either. These are just the same old recycled attacks the democrats have against republicans no matter who is running. If Ron Paul had won the nomination Obama's campaign line still would have been "The Bush-Paul" economy.

[magekillr]

I never said he was a creationist, but to leave it up to the school districts about whether or not that they teach creationism is just as bad.

 

 

 

I say he's anti-science by these interviews:

 

 

 

http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080903/ ... 5446a.html

 

 

 

http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080923/ ... .1125.html

 

 

 

http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080903/ ... 5446a.html

 

 

 

He also mocked Obama's pork for the planetarium in Chicago that has educated millions.

[jackattack]

So what your saying is based off an interview he never gave? And mocking Obama's pork doesn't make him anti-science. Earmarks are earmarks. Out of all of the Republican candidates he is probably the most in touch with science. It wouldn't matter who the nominee is, even if it was an actual scientist, as long as the R is next to the name they are 'anit-science'.

[magekillr]

I'll agree to disagree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, the McCain campaign is falling apart...because of Palin and her enormous ego. She actually believes she can run the country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/25/ ... pstoryview

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"She is a diva. She takes no advice from anyone," said this McCain adviser. "She does not have any relationships of trust with any of us, her family or anyone else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Also, she is playing for her own future and sees herself as the next leader of the party. Remember: Divas trust only unto themselves, as they see themselves as the beginning and end of all wisdom."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, this is what we need from a possible President...someone that doesn't take advice from others.

[Lenticular_J]

A politician with an enormous ego that won't take advice from others? What is this world coming to?!

[magekillr]

A politician with an enormous ego that won't take advice from others? What is this world coming to?!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I expect her to listen to her cabinet...if she were President. What is the point of advisers if you don't listen to them?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's also a difference between being egotistical, and being egotistical without having the know-how to back up your ego.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The United Nations released a striking blow to the American Dream on Tuesday by noting that America was the most unequal country in the history of the world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The findings sharply diverge from the delusions of adequacy that country's citizens often appear to endorse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The study's most interesting paragraph occurs at the conclusion:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"The wealthiest 5% of Americans have a net worth above $250,000. With the world's current productive and consumptive levels as they are, that gives these people the equivalent of castles of just a century ago, with regards to material prosperity and happiness. That means that for the citizens making less than $30,000, the wealthiest 5% are making nine-tenths of an castle more than them. Can you imagine living in a world, where chance means that you were born into a cycle of poverty that only allots you 500 square feet per person, while your neighbor might have 3,000 square feet per person? It's devastating. In the past, only the richest persons in an empire would own an castle, but now a castle, rounded up, is the difference between rich and poor. This is absolutely unprecedented."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

President George Bush was quick to respond to the study. "We...do have many poor people in this country. And for them, life can be very difficult. But our poverty levels are actually lower than many industrialized nations. We have a lot of very real problems in this country, but a lot of people are doing very well, and I think that...this is something which the study ignores in favor of a relative definition of poverty, when poverty should be about food. Economics is not a zero-sum game. The losers in today's system are much better off than the winners in yesterday's system."

[Lenticular_J]

They kinda missed shooting down the "American dream" by four decades.

[warri0r45]

 

 

^^ Glad to see some people understand "if you don't like it you can get out" Good Luck moving to Finland.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

God I hate this attitude. You know countries do change with time, Jack, and people have every right to protest things they don't like. I don't suppose you'd like someone telling you to get out of the country should Obama get in and redistribute some income to your utter distaste, would you? Say he did get elected, in reality you should have every right to protest his policy/share your opinion about it, because after all America is a democracy and everyone is allowed a say as to how the country should be run.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is a difference between "I do not like the government and It's policies" and "I hate this evil country and everyone who lives here is a stupid redneck who I am so much better than". I love this country no matter who is elected. It might become my life's goal to unseat Nancy Pelosi or Jackie Speier but that is different from Hollywood typed who say "If McCain is elected I'm moving to Canada" If someone really hates America, as Magekillr has made crystal clear plenty of times, then they should leave. I think there is a reason the immigration problem is people coming in and not leaving though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How on earth did you get the second option from magekillr's post? It sounds like you completely manufactured that from nowhere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hide=the quote you responded to]

 

 

 

I just don't understand the obsession with possessions...what is the point in owning so much, while so many own so little? If everyone could own a lot, alright, fine...go pour your soul into vanity filled adventures with an overwhelming amount of [cabbage]. In reality, there must be poor for there to be rich.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why can't people just be happy with learning new things, educating others, feeding people, water, shelter...and just living and talking? Is there seriously more to life than that? I sure don't see any other purposes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My theoretical beliefs would embody communism; no private ownership. Reality would place some private ownership, some public, while emphasizing the need to help the poor. Sweden and Finland are two countries that embody my realistic beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just want this election to be over, and to graduate so I can begin paying off my loans. If it wasn't for the need to be a skilled worker in order to successfully emigrate, I wouldn't have even went to University in the United States.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shadowfax hit it quite nicely, there's no reason to work, in a communistic country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, Communism is an idealist thing, as are most Democrats, everyone thinks it's a good idea, but it's never really worked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's why I said theoretical beliefs. In reality, I support socialism and capitalism mixed...where the government has part ownership on production.

[/hide]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Either way, thanks for expanding on "if you don't like it you can get out". It sounds much better now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One final question. What do you mean by this: "as Magekillr has made crystal clear plenty of times"? Are you saying that Magekillr hates America and should get out? Or are you saying that Magekillr has agreed with your sentiment that America-haters should get out?

[dangeresque]

But those big evil rich people pay all of the taxes anyways, so [bleep] all you want poor people, they're paying your taxes. ;)

[chris1216]

In response to Magekillr's quoting of the United Nations thing-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bush is actually absolutely correct. That statistic is both true and meaningless. It's not the gap that matters, its how bad off the people at the bottom are doing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And it is obviously unarguably true that the poor in the US are much much better off than the poor in most countries in the rest of the world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Trying to imply that things in the U.S. are "horrible" and bad" is demeaning to the horrifying conditions that many of the rest of the world live in.

[meol]

Bush is actually absolutely correct. That statistic is both true and meaningless. It's not the gap that matters, its how bad off the people at the bottom are doing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And it is obviously unarguably true that the poor in the US are much much better off than the poor in most countries in the rest of the world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Trying to imply that things in the U.S. are "horrible" and bad" is demeaning to the horrifying conditions that many of the rest of the world live in.

 

 

 

You know, the fact that people live worse somewhere else doesn't justify the social inequality in your country. Comparing an economic power like the US with the poorest countries in the world is just mediocre. Of course it's great your poor people aren't doing as bad as they could, but Magekillr is only pointing out the serious need to close social gaps.

[magekillr]

 

Bush is actually absolutely correct. That statistic is both true and meaningless. It's not the gap that matters, its how bad off the people at the bottom are doing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And it is obviously unarguably true that the poor in the US are much much better off than the poor in most countries in the rest of the world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Trying to imply that things in the U.S. are "horrible" and bad" is demeaning to the horrifying conditions that many of the rest of the world live in.

 

 

 

You know, the fact that people live worse somewhere else doesn't justify the social inequality in your country. Comparing an economic power like the US with the poorest countries in the world is just mediocre. Of course it's great your poor people aren't doing as bad as they could, but Magekillr is only pointing out the serious need to close social gaps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Correct.

[dangeresque]

I agree that we need to close social gaps to an extent, but if we made everyone equal, our nation and economy would go down the tubes. We already try to close the gap with Welfare, etc. and the Poor don't pay taxes. Even though Obama says that the rich people need to help out more, the top 20% of income earners in the US pay 80% of the total income taxes. Is that fair?