The Offical TIF American Elections thread

[Ginger_Warrior]

He does actually say the pledge. I've seen video of him leading it in the Senate. It was just one time where he didn't put his hand over his heart.

 

 

 

EDIT: It's not understandable though.

 

You're criticising Obama for not putting his hand over his heart during the Pledge once, while you support a campaign which has consistently lied (or at least been economic with the truth)?

[magekillr]

 

 

 

It's going to be spun somehow in favor of McCain...somehow. I don't trust Rove, and I don't trust Murdoch.

[Ginger_Warrior]

 

 

 

It's going to be spun somehow in favor of McCain...somehow. I don't trust Rove, and I don't trust Murdoch.

 

If McCain wins, all it proves is what I have thought ever since Newsnight did a documentary on Obama's nomination launch in Illinois all those many months ago.

 

 

 

America would rather vote for George Bush v2 (as far as foreign policy goes), even if he lies and scaremongers his way into power, than vote for either a woman or a black man.

 

 

 

EDIT: It's from about two months ago so I don't know whether it's been raised before, but McCain is also quite clearly confused on the geography of the Middle-East. Maybe he also thinks Georgia's in the area. Who knows, really.

 

uCagyQT5Y9g

[magekillr]

America would rather vote for George Bush v2 (as far as foreign policy goes), even if he lies and scaremongers his way into power, than vote for either a woman or a black man.

 

 

 

With all due respect, I don't think a black person would ever be elected to this sort of position of power in Europe. In my opinion, there is more racism in Europe, but it's a different type. It's not the flat out hatred like it is here, but I think it's more rampant.

 

 

 

Anyway, do you happen to have a link to that story that Newsnight did?

 

 

 

I think what it proves is that America is so damn Conservative and backwards about everything that they're willing to just stay the course. The reason people are voting for McCain is not because of his record, not because of his plans, not even because they like what George Bush did...they're voting for him simply because he's from the majority party that is Conservative. They're so afraid of liberals and any form of taxation, even if it will benefit them, that they will vote against it....no matter what their situation is.

 

 

 

It doesn't make any sense, but that's what it is.

 

 

 

If you'd like to help, please register American voters abroad in the UK. Voter Registration deadlines are like 2 weeks away. Yesterday when I went to register voters and canvass supporters, the people who said they would not vote for Obama simply said, "I'm conservative."

 

 

 

Although yesterday gave me much better hopes about my state (Virginia). I go to a moderate/conservative University, and I registered 1 new voter, and spoke with 200 people. I would say around 65-70% were for Obama, 10-15% were for McCain, and 15-20% were undecided. The undecided's didn't really have any issues that rung to them...they just said "We're waiting for the debates." I spoke to more than just students, it was an apartment complex. The professional housing area seemed to fit Obama better too.

 

 

 

edit: Oh, and I was working with a Hillary supporter too. It was jolly good fun. 11% of Democrats voted for George Bush in 2004, and I would predict that 10-15% would vote for McCain in 2008. There is no rift between Hillary supporters and the rest of the party, it's the same number as usual. Just trying to make that as clear as possible :

[Ginger_Warrior]

I'm talking Newsnight as in BBC Newsnight, and iPlayer would have looong got rid of it by now.

 

 

 

With all due respect, I don't think a black person would ever be elected to this sort of position of power in Europe. In my opinion, there is more racism in Europe, but it's a different type. It's not the flat out hatred like it is here, but I think it's more rampant.

 

Firstly, there's not as many black people in Europe as there are in America (...wow, that sounded supremacist :shock:) due to the nature of the slave trade. Therefore due to proportional representation, there will be less black people in parliament, you're right. There's nothing racist about that, that's the nature of our society.

 

 

 

Out of the big three names in the EU, only the UK can actually provide any detailed information in regards to its ethnicity because Germany and France in particular promote integration, preferring to talk about a person's national heritage rather than their race. However, if we compare the UK and the US:

 

 

 

• [*:188ygm3v]UK - White (92%); South Asian (4%); Black (just 2%)
   
  [*:188ygm3v]US - White (80%); African American (12%); Asian (4.4%)

 

Proportionately speaking, you have six times the percentage of African Americans than we have of Blacks as a whole.

 

 

 

You are right though. I can't imagine the KKK getting a prime time broadcast to spread their racist crap in America, like the BNP did in the local elections this year in the UK. To say there's only white people in the House of Commons though is a lie - Preston's mixed race MP is half-Somali.

 

 

 

What it underlines rather is that racism still exists at large across the whole world, no matter what people say about 'positive discrimination'. I didn't mean to make it sound like it existed only in America.

[Saru Inc]

wheres ron paul? come on, this is the internet.

 

 

 

 

 

Lolll.

 

 

 

 

 

You can tell this is TIF cuz of all the Obama people.

 

For a while I just said McCain, but some time ago I started looking into all of the issues, and it looks like McCain is laying everything out, go to his website, he says if he's president we'll remain in Iraq, until its safe for the people. Obama beats around the bush about everything. He's sneaky and trys to do anything that may make people not want to vote for him. Which is why if I could vote ( I turn 18 in December *sobs* ) I'd vote McCain, because he gets to the point and is not afraid to say what he means. And I fear Obama will try to pelase politicians and it'll turn into a nightmare.

 

 

 

And idk if this has been posted yet, but I saw this recently:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And GW, you're a cool dude (ilu) but yuo really need to watch the news, and not listen to your parents\peers. It's actually the other way around, yea, sure Palin\McCain have flipped-flopped, but so has Obama, and so has every politician who ever was or will be at some point in there life. I mean, also, McCain didn't do anything of what you said, I looked into both McCain and Obama with an UNBIASED point of view which beyond the shadow of a doubt I can say I'm probably one of 10 people in here who looked at it with out bias. And really, if you go to Obama's website:

 

[Deiophobus]

Ginger, I'm not a McCain supporter, and I agree with you on almost all your posts, but I think it's unfair to criticize him for that slip up. The tape stops there, for all we know he could have corrected himself. A lot of people say things like that when they mean something else, and usually just correct themselves.

[blaah]

On a less serious note...

 

 

 

I was watching SNL with my mom and it was doing the news portion. They mentioned Matt Cassel being the quarterback for the New England Patriots and said because he's the unexperienced backup to Tom Brady, he's earned the nickname Sarah Palin.

 

 

 

Saruman, you compare the two based on how well they lay out their plans on their websites, but if someone were to compare the two major candidates based on what they said in their nomination speeches, Obama did what he had to and said what kind of changes he was going to make and McCain said the same things over and over and talked about his time as a POW and chanted more than talking about his change.

[Range_This11]

On the Iraq Pakistan border. On the Iraq Pakistan border. On the Iraq Pakistan border. On the Iraq Pakistan border. On the Iraq Pakistan border. On the Iraq Pakistan border.

[Ginger_Warrior]

On the Iraq Pakistan border. On the Iraq Pakistan border. On the Iraq Pakistan border. On the Iraq Pakistan border. On the Iraq Pakistan border. On the Iraq Pakistan border.

 

Hmm... that bit was unnecessary. Twice or possibly three times would have done.

 

 

 

And GW, you're a cool dude (ilu) but yuo really need to watch the news, and not listen to your parents\peers.

 

ilu2... but I watch the news daily and I make my own mind up. At the start, I was one of Obama's cynics. I've changed my mind.

 

 

 

If I listened to my Dad, I'd be supporting whatever the Socialists are putting forward.

[Saru Inc]

On a less serious note...

 

 

 

I was watching SNL with my mom and it was doing the news portion. They mentioned Matt Cassel being the quarterback for the New England Patriots and said because he's the unexperienced backup to Tom Brady, he's earned the nickname Sarah Palin.

 

 

 

Saruman, you compare the two based on how well they lay out their plans on their websites, but if someone were to compare the two major candidates based on what they said in their nomination speeches, Obama did what he had to and said what kind of changes he was going to make and McCain said the same things over and over and talked about his time as a POW and chanted more than talking about his change.

 

 

 

No actually, I'm not. I didn't mean to infer that either, sorry for the mistaken message.

 

 

 

My point was, McCain wasn't afraid to say something that my hurt him, if its what he believes in. Sure, it's not very good politics, because it may cause him to lose the election, but I think thats more honorable.

 

 

 

 

 

And I saw both the nomination speeches. And well.... I just agree with McCain more, partly cuz I'm Christian, pro life, male and umm what other sterotypes there are for Republicans. :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

Now to steer away:

 

 

 

 

 

1) Range This11, that's not really a fair thing to say. I mean, my parents say idiotic stuff, but they're really quite intelligent, my dad once said Benjamin Franklin was our first president and he had a degree in history (I woke him up from a nap and he was still really tired lol) What I'm saying is, the media tends to make one slip up and throw it everywhere, with the Iraq-Pakistan border, or the how many number of houses. However, Republicans did it also with the Lipstick on a pig fiasco.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) I have a theory, and it's really only for Americans lol, but anyone can can feel free to debate it.

 

 

 

 

 

I think that McCain will win the election. Partly because, most of Obama's supporters are young people, a HUGE majority are high school students, and I think that when it comes time to vote, the young people who can, well the majority at least will either be too high, drunk or busy with work or school to vote. Or they might pull the "it's only one vote syndrome." While all of McCain's supporters are, let's face it, old people. The old people who have nothing to do on Election day then to vote, or at leats make time in the day to vote, and they also know how important their one vote is. Also I've tended to see a lot of umm Obamaian's switch to McCain side in the past few days as it is nearing election time.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok GW.

 

 

 

Also, to those people who are on the fence, be sure to watch multiple news stations, like maybe CNN which is known to be biased in favor of Democrats, and then maybe switch over to FoxNews which is known to be biased towards Republicans. (O'Reilly sucks lol. he's a jerk.)

 

 

 

Because if yuo only watch one station, you may not be voting for what you think you're voting for.

[Guest timthebrave]

Whoever made this poll forgot to add Hobson/ Choice '08, ('12, '14...)

 

 

 

...the party duopoly needs to end but I see it going on for years more.

 

 

 

I don't see what is attractive about either of the top two candidates, considering Obama supports the War On Drugs, no gay rights, increased presence in the Middle East, &c.

 

 

 

And McCain supports the same, only in a more obvious way.

 

 

 

Both want mandatory medical insurance which will not solve the problems of uninsured Americans. It's corporate welfare and a mandatory service to these corporations in the guise of medical relief, which it is not, it will only raise the cost of medical help.

 

 

 

They are missing the problems altogether.

[Range_This11]

 

Hmm... that bit was unnecessary. Twice or possibly three times would have done.

 

 

I just thought it was really funny.

[Saru Inc]

Whoever made this poll forgot to add Hobson/ Choice '08, ('12, '14...)

 

 

 

...the party duopoly needs to end but I see it going on for years more.

 

 

 

I don't see what is attractive about either of the top two candidates, considering Obama supports the War On Drugs, no gay rights, increased presence in the Middle East, &c.

 

 

 

And McCain supports the same, only in a more obvious way.

 

 

 

Both want mandatory medical insurance which will not solve the problems of uninsured Americans. It's corporate welfare and a mandatory service to these corporations in the guise of medical relief, which it is not, it will only raise the cost of medical help.

 

 

 

They are missing the problems altogether.

 

 

 

Actually, Obama supports gay marriage. And yea, McCain and Obama are kind of running a bit close.

[jackattack]

^^Think of one drug law you don't like and I'd bet Joe Biden is behind it.

 

On the Iraq Pakistan border. On the Iraq Pakistan border. On the Iraq Pakistan border. On the Iraq Pakistan border. On the Iraq Pakistan border. On the Iraq Pakistan border.

 

 

 

 

 

Ya and it was Obama who said "We only have a certain number of them[translators] and if they are all in Iraq, then its harder for us to use them in Afghanistan". To bad they speak pashtun and Farsi in Afganistan. Or that there are 57 states. Or the tornado that killed 10,000? Or Sioux City Iowa? Arkansas is closer to Kentucky than Illinois? Conceived during the Selma march? Americans liberated Auschwitz? The made up magazine article in his book?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think what it proves is that America is so damn Conservative and backwards about everything that they're willing to just stay the course. The reason people are voting for McCain is not because of his record, not because of his plans, not even because they like what George Bush did...they're voting for him simply because he's from the majority party that is Conservative. They're so afraid of liberals and any form of taxation, even if it will benefit them, that they will vote against it....no matter what their situation is.

 

 

 

Ya, we are just backasswards. I mean it's like we still use walkman's over here. Everyone is just stupid. You are so much smarter.

[Deiophobus]

Jack, you know magekillr is from Virginia, right?

[jackattack]

So no one in Virgina can think they are better than anyone else?

[magekillr]

Well, by the mere definition of self-righteousness, I would say I fit the mold.

 

 

 

Let's take racism for example. I am extremely intolerant of racism, and racial slurs. This would make my "morals" more important, in my opinion, than said racist's.

 

 

 

I have no problem with you claiming I think I'm better than other people, because by the definition of "self-righteousness", I believe it fits under certain circumstances.

 

 

 

Oh:

 

 

 

[hide=]

September 16, 2008

 

Wall Street in Worst Loss Since 2001

 

By STEPHEN LABATON

 

 

 

WASHINGTON In another unnerving day for Wall Street, investors suffered their worst losses since the terrorist attacks of 2001, and government officials raced to prevent the financial crisis from spreading.

 

 

 

Trading opened sharply down Monday morning, and the mood later turned even gloomier, despite efforts by President Bush and Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr., in separate appearances at the White House, to reassure markets that Wall Streets deepening problems would not weaken an already anemic economy.

 

 

 

Amid worries that the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers and the sale of Merrill Lynch over the weekend might not be enough to stop the downward spiral, stocks fell sharply in the last half hour of trading. By the end of the day, the Dow Jones industrial average had dropped 504.48 points, or 4.4 percent, as a record volume of more than 8 billion shares traded hands on the New York Stock Exchange. It was the biggest decline since Sept. 17, 2001 the day the index reopened after the 9/11 terrorist attacks when it fell 7 percent, or 684.81 points.

 

 

 

A concern hanging over the market is the fate of other financial companies, most notably the American International Group, one of the worlds largest insurers. After the Fed rebuffed a request by the company for a $40 billion temporary loan, federal and state officials worked on Monday to stabilize A.I.G., with the State of New York relaxing rules to allow the company to borrow as much as $20 billion in much-needed cash, while the New York Federal Reserve Bank was engaged in talks with JPMorgan Chase and Goldman Sachs on a $75 billion loan for the insurer.

 

 

 

Market participants fear that without a cash infusion for A.I.G., losses on its financial insurance contracts could cause a ripple effect that would damage other companies. Shares of A.I.G., already battered in recent weeks, plunged another 60 percent on Monday, closing at $4.76. Last year, the company had traded as high as $72.

 

 

 

The stock markets descent in the closing minutes Monday could set the stage for more fallout on Tuesday, when Asian markets that were closed for a holiday the day before will reopen. In response to the market turmoil, officials at the Federal Reserve were considering lowering interest rates at the regularly scheduled meeting on Tuesday of the Open Market Committee, which sets monetary policy. Such a move would follow a pattern the Fed lowered rates after the Sept. 11 attacks and after the crash of 1987 to help calm the markets though a rate cut is far from a certainty.

 

 

 

The Fed also took steps to ease rules separating banks and investment banks, a move intended to make it easier for healthy companies on Wall Street, like Goldman Sachs, to buy up troubled institutions.

 

 

 

Wall Street was still reeling on Monday from a tumultuous weekend in which Treasury and Fed officials told top bank executives that they needed to work together to resolve the financial industrys problems, because the government did not intend to bail out Lehman, a decision that led to Lehmans bankruptcy filing.

 

 

 

Dispirited employees of Lehman arrived at work in Midtown Manhattan with little to do, with many spending their time polishing their résumés and sharing dark humor. Traders at other firms arrived at work before dawn to brace themselves for a heavy day and continued to limit their losses by unwinding their trading positions with Lehman. Nervous investors around the nation logged onto their investment accounts on the Internet to see what toll the financial tumult had taken on retirement and college-education funds.

 

 

 

Workers at Merrill Lynch, stunned by the respected institutions demise as an independent brokerage firm, came to work after learning about the sale on Sunday of the company to Bank of America. While the acquisition may have saved Merrill from what some worried would be a fate similar to Lehmans, it will come at a cost to Merrill workers. Bank of America said it planned to wring $7 billion in costs from Merrill over four years from the consolidation, a plan that could result in thousands of layoffs. At a news conference on Monday, Kenneth D. Lewis, Bank of Americas chairman, would not discuss job losses, but he repeatedly praised Merrills 16,000 financial advisers, calling them the crown jewel of the company.

 

 

 

Merrill employees who are laid off will have plenty of company, as many financial workers have lost jobs in the last year, leaving many without a paycheck. Appearing briefly in the morning before reporters in the Rose Garden, Mr. Bush characterized the recent events as short-term market adjustments that would have a limited effect on an otherwise sound economy.

 

 

 

I know Americans are concerned about the adjustments that are taking place in our financial markets, Mr. Bush said at a ceremony to welcome the president of Ghana.

 

 

 

He added: In the short run, adjustments in the financial markets can be painful both for the people concerned about their investments, and for the employees of the affected firms. In the long run, Im confident that our capital markets are flexible and resilient, and can deal with these adjustments.

 

 

 

But, seeking safer places for their money, investors drove down the yields of Treasury notes. Widening spreads in the credit market indicated deep skepticism about mortgage-backed securities. The price of crude oil dropped more than $5 a barrel to close to at $95.71, as investors seemed to conclude that an economic decline would cause a significant decrease in the demand for energy.

 

 

 

A senior administration official, recounting the fall of Lehman, said that for weeks Mr. Paulson had been pressing Richard S. Fuld Jr., the companys chief executive, to sell the company, but that ultimately no one in the market wanted it because of billions of dollars in bad investments the company had made in subprime mortgages and real estate. They said that Mr. Paulson told Mr. Fuld after the company reported dreadful second-quarter earnings that Lehman had to be sold or it would not survive.

 

 

 

The official said that, several weeks ago, Mr. Paulson had a list in his mind of major institutions that might not be able to resolve their huge investments in troubled real estate and that the list consisted of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch and Washington Mutual. The official said that Mr. Paulson also decided that it was paramount to first resolve the problems at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two huge mortgage finance companies, before turning to the others. In addition to A.I.G., the difficulties of Washington Mutual, the nations largest savings and loan, remain unresolved. On Monday, the shares of Washington Mutual closed down nearly 27 percent, to $2.

 

 

 

Mr. Paulson concluded that the financial system could survive the collapse of Lehman, which has shown signs of weakness for months.

 

 

 

The rapid deterioration of Bear Stearns, in contrast, took top officials by surprise last March. And Fannie and Freddie are government-created companies that are simply too large to fail together they own or guarantee nearly half of the nations residential mortgages.

 

 

 

Widening spreads in the credit market indicated deep skepticism about mortgage-backed securities.

 

 

 

As throughout most of the year, Mr. Bush and the White House left most of the details about the crisis to Mr. Paulson, who told reporters at a White House briefing that the problems in the housing markets at the heart of the financial crisis would take months to resolve themselves.

 

 

 

I believe that there is a reasonable chance that the biggest part of that housing correction can be behind us in a number of months, Mr. Paulson said. Im not saying two or three months, but in months as opposed to years.

 

 

 

Mr. Paulson sought to distinguish the governments decision to provide financial assistance to Bear Stearns last March, as well as to rescue Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac last week, from its rejection of aid requests from Lehman Brothers and A.I.G.

 

 

 

The situation in March and the situation and the facts around Bear Stearns were very, very different to the situation we are looking at here in September, he said. I never once considered that it was appropriate to put taxpayer money on the line in resolving Lehman Brothers. He called the discussions on assisting A.I.G. a private sector effort.

 

 

 

Still, Mr. Paulson did not reject any future Washington bailouts.

[/hide]

 

 

 

"The fundamentals of our economy are still strong!"

 

 

 

--John McCain

[jackattack]

It's not about racism. It's about "oh those redneck bloodthirsty stupid conservatives" And that's an old quote.

 

 

 

I...will...kill...white people. 10/2/07-7/5/08

[magekillr]

It's not about racism. It's about "oh those redneck bloodthirsty stupid conservatives" And that's an old quote.

 

 

 

I...will...kill...white people. 10/2/07-7/5/08

 

 

 

It's not an old quote. He said it today or yesterday. Even if it was an old quote, it was in this season when the economy was NOT strong.

 

 

 

You want to go to war, and right-wing conservatives are pretty stupid, redneck, and homophobic. I can't stand social conservatives. That fits the same mold as the racism.

 

 

 

I disagree with fiscal conservatives, but it's not the disdain I have for the social ones.

[jackattack]

Ya just because they believe abortion is wrong or that marriage is between a man and a woman they are stupid homophobic rednecks. :thumbup:

[Ginger_Warrior]

Ya just because they believe abortion is wrong or that marriage is between a man and a woman they are stupid homophobic rednecks. :thumbup:

 

Ya just because Obama has the most liberal voting record in the senate that means he's the force of evil whose real objective is to move America away from old Christian morality and give a kickin' to gun owners while he's at it. :thumbup:

 

 

 

We all have our stereotypes. It's not nice but that's the way it is and during elections those stereotypes come to the fore. You're just as guilty for them as we are.

[Range_This11]

 

Ya and it was Obama who said "We only have a certain number of them[translators] and if they are all in Iraq, then its harder for us to use them in Afghanistan". To bad they speak pashtun and Farsi in Afganistan. Or that there are 57 states. Or the tornado that killed 10,000? Or Sioux City Iowa? Arkansas is closer to Kentucky than Illinois? Conceived during the Selma march? Americans liberated Auschwitz? The made up magazine article in his book?

 

 

Half of those are taken out of context and would make sense in any sentence. You're just trying to use them to make Obama look bad. I was just laughing at the video and how they had him repeat it for over one minute. And I guess that the fact that McCain is stuttering old man, too.

 

 

 

 

 

This one isn't any of him messing up, but it's just funny. Especially if you've seen the Bill O'Reilly flip out video.

[Deiophobus]

Jack, what I meant is that the way you phrased it, saying "over here" to mage, it sounded as if you thought he was in Europe.

[Agunimon979]

 

I...will...kill...white people. 10/2/07-7/5/08

 

 

 

lolwut?