The Offical TIF American Elections thread

[jackattack]

I think you're forgetting that as the Governor she had to work with the state legislature. Legislative experience is inferior because there is not really as much pressure. You're not really responsible for anything. You can skip votes, miss hearnings, or not introduce any legislation and unless it's an election year nobody will really care. Unless you are in a leadership position. As a governor you have to actually run the state.

 

 

 

Obama became a Senator in 2004. Two and a half years compared to your (less than) 150 days.

 

 

 

It was actual days in the senate.

 

 

 

No, it wasn't actual days in the senate. He took office in January of '05. Still about Two and a half years.

 

 

 

By the way, Obama made it to more votes than McCain, so playing that card is useless. No, you cannot loaf it once in office, especially if you plan on getting elected president. He did more in a short period of time than most.

 

 

 

As a governor, you aren't just handed a state by the federal govt. and get told: "Run it." Obama is in charge of keeping over 12 million people happy. Palin is in charge of a mere 670,000. Senators work just as hard as governors, especially those who are running for president.

 

 

 

Senators do not work as hard as governors. And I mean actual days where the senate was in session and he was there. He did not really do anything much in the senate aside from voting for Cheney's 2005 energy bill that had tax cuts for oil companies(which McCain voted against), propose the Iraq war deescalation act which would have insured that we lost in Iraq. Everyone like to say "ethics reform". Even Obama. At saddleback they asked him one thing he did against his party for the good of the country. His answer was the ethics bill that he worked on with John McCain in 05 or 06. In fact they worked together for less than a week and after McCain sent Obama this letter...

 

 

 

I would like to apologize to you for assuming that your private assurances to me regarding your desire to cooperate in our efforts to negotiate bipartisan lobbying reform legislation were sincere. ... I'm embarrassed to admit that after all these years in politics I failed to interpret your previous assurances as typical rhetorical gloss routinely used in politics to make self-interested partisan posturing appear more noble. Again, sorry for the confusion, but please be assured I won't make the same mistake again

Obama decided against working in a bipartisan effort and did what the democratic leaders wanted.

 

 

 

Under this majority-written bill, with no input from the Republicans, this bill will, unless you hold one of the top positions, you will now wield even more power, even more power with your pork-barrel pen. ... [T]he bill before us fixes only part of the problem and does not go to the heart of the problem. The heart of the problem that has bred the corruption is the earmark process.

Not to mention that democratic leaders supported that bill so it wasn't really against his party.

 

 

 

And I think Obama was also one of the one who endorsed Lieberman in the primary and then turned right around and endorsed Lamont. Party has to come first right?

[NoMoreDead]

[hide=]

I think you're forgetting that as the Governor she had to work with the state legislature. Legislative experience is inferior because there is not really as much pressure. You're not really responsible for anything. You can skip votes, miss hearnings, or not introduce any legislation and unless it's an election year nobody will really care. Unless you are in a leadership position. As a governor you have to actually run the state.

 

 

 

Obama became a Senator in 2004. Two and a half years compared to your (less than) 150 days.

 

 

 

It was actual days in the senate.

 

 

 

No, it wasn't actual days in the senate. He took office in January of '05. Still about Two and a half years.

 

 

 

By the way, Obama made it to more votes than McCain, so playing that card is useless. No, you cannot loaf it once in office, especially if you plan on getting elected president. He did more in a short period of time than most.

 

 

 

As a governor, you aren't just handed a state by the federal govt. and get told: "Run it." Obama is in charge of keeping over 12 million people happy. Palin is in charge of a mere 670,000. Senators work just as hard as governors, especially those who are running for president.

 

 

 

Senators do not work as hard as governors. And I mean actual days where the senate was in session and he was there. He did not really do anything much in the senate aside from voting for Cheney's 2005 energy bill that had tax cuts for oil companies(which McCain voted against), propose the Iraq war deescalation act which would have insured that we lost in Iraq. Everyone like to say "ethics reform". Even Obama. At saddleback they asked him one thing he did against his party for the good of the country. His answer was the ethics bill that he worked on with John McCain in 05 or 06. In fact they worked together for less than a week and after McCain sent Obama this letter...

 

 

 

I would like to apologize to you for assuming that your private assurances to me regarding your desire to cooperate in our efforts to negotiate bipartisan lobbying reform legislation were sincere. ... I'm embarrassed to admit that after all these years in politics I failed to interpret your previous assurances as typical rhetorical gloss routinely used in politics to make self-interested partisan posturing appear more noble. Again, sorry for the confusion, but please be assured I won't make the same mistake again

Obama decided against working in a bipartisan effort and did what the democratic leaders wanted.

 

 

 

Under this majority-written bill, with no input from the Republicans, this bill will, unless you hold one of the top positions, you will now wield even more power, even more power with your pork-barrel pen. ... [T]he bill before us fixes only part of the problem and does not go to the heart of the problem. The heart of the problem that has bred the corruption is the earmark process.

Not to mention that democratic leaders supported that bill so it wasn't really against his party.

 

 

 

And I think Obama was also one of the one who endorsed Lieberman in the primary and then turned right around and endorsed Lamont. Party has to come first right?

[/hide]

 

 

 

Proof:

 

109th Congress -

 

Obama missed 1.7% of the votes.

 

McCain missed 9.0% of the votes.

 

 

 

110th Congress -

 

Obama missed 45.5% of the votes.

 

McCain missed 63.8% of the votes.

 

 

 

 

 

List of things Obama has been a part of BEFORE announcing he would run for President:

 

[hide=*Sigh*]-"Obama voted in favor of the Energy Policy Act of 2005 and cosponsored the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act."

 

 

 

-"Later in 2007, Obama sponsored an amendment to the Defense Authorization Act adding safeguards for personality disorder military discharges.[64] He sponsored the "Iran Sanctions Enabling Act" supporting divestment of state pension funds from Iran's oil and gas industry, and co-sponsored legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism."

 

 

 

-"Obama also introduced the Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007."

 

 

 

-"In December 2006, President Bush signed into law the "Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act," marking the first federal legislation to be enacted with Obama as its primary sponsor."

 

 

 

-"Obama held assignments on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works and Veterans' Affairs through December 2006."

 

 

 

-"He also became Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs. As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Obama has made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa."[/hide]

 

 

 

Sarah Palin's turn:

 

[hide=Oops]Shortly after taking office, Palin rescinded 35 appointments made by Murkowski in the last hours of his administration, including that of his former chief of staff James "Jim" Clark to the Alaska Natural Gas Development Authority. Clark later pleaded guilty to conspiring with a defunct oil-field-services company to channel money into Frank Murkowski's re-election campaign.

 

 

 

^^Well done, governor.

 

 

 

In March 2007, Palin presented the Alaska Gasline Inducement Act (AGIA) as the new legal vehicle for building a natural gas pipeline from the state's North Slope. This negated a deal by the previous governor to grant the contract to a coalition including BP (her husband's former employer). Only one legislator, Representative Ralph Samuels, voted against the measure, and in June, Palin signed it into law. On January 5, 2008, Palin announced that a Canadian company, TransCanada Corp., was the sole AGIA-compliant applicant. In August 2008, Palin signed a bill into law giving the state of Alaska authority to award TransCanada Pipelines $500 million in seed money and a license to build and operate the $26-billion pipeline to transport natural gas from the North Slope to the Lower 48 through Canada.

 

 

 

^^Palin's shining moment.

 

 

 

In June 2007, Palin signed into law a $6.6 billion operating budgetthe largest in Alaska's history. At the same time, she used her veto power to make the second-largest cuts of the construction budget in state history

 

 

 

Palin strongly supports drilling for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR), which McCain has opposed. They also disagree on her belief that global warming is not caused by human activity.

 

 

 

"Two major Alaska newspapers have questioned Palins competency for the Vice Presidency. In an editorial dated August 30, 2008, the Anchorage Daily News wrote "It's stunning that someone with so little national and international experience might be a heartbeat away from the presidency.""[/hide]

 

 

 

I'm not even quote mining, which is sad. She really didn't do a heck of a lot. Honestly. Research it yourself, she's done nothing worth noting.

[jackattack]

None of those things are good. And haven't you already copy pasted that? The energy policy of 2005 was the same one written by Cheney which gave tax breaks to oil companies, The Iraq war deescalation act would have made sure that the war was lost, being on committee's doesn't mean anything unless you do anything, and he hasn't had one major hearing on the subcommittee he chairs.

[NoMoreDead]

None of those things are good. And haven't you already copy pasted that? The energy policy of 2005 was the same one written by Cheney which gave tax breaks to oil companies, The Iraq war deescalation act would have made sure that the war was lost, being on committee's doesn't mean anything unless you do anything, and he hasn't had one major hearing on the subcommittee he chairs.

 

 

 

Still waiting for you to provide any evidence to the contrary...

 

 

 

How is this not a good thing?:

 

-Obama held assignments on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works and Veterans' Affairs through December 2006.

 

 

 

All of those things I listed a couple posts ago show that he doesn't just sit on his butt and actually does his job, and he does it effectivly. Palin still runs 670,000 people.

 

 

 

Ready to lead 300 Million plus? She's done nothing extraordinary in Alaska, why trust her to America's future?

[Kenshinjapan]

None of those things are good. And haven't you already copy pasted that? The energy policy of 2005 was the same one written by Cheney which gave tax breaks to oil companies, The Iraq war deescalation act would have made sure that the war was lost, being on committee's doesn't mean anything unless you do anything, and he hasn't had one major hearing on the subcommittee he chairs.

 

 

 

Still waiting for you to provide any evidence to the contrary...

 

 

 

How is this not a good thing?:

 

-Obama held assignments on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works and Veterans' Affairs through December 2006.

 

 

 

All of those things I listed a couple posts ago show that he doesn't just sit on his butt and actually does his job, and he does it effectivly. Palin still runs 670,000 people.

 

 

 

Ready to lead 300 Million plus? She's done nothing extraordinary in Alaska, why trust her to America's future?

 

 

 

As said 100 times before, Obama needs to look in the mirror.

[jackattack]

None of those things are good. And haven't you already copy pasted that? The energy policy of 2005 was the same one written by Cheney which gave tax breaks to oil companies, The Iraq war deescalation act would have made sure that the war was lost, being on committee's doesn't mean anything unless you do anything, and he hasn't had one major hearing on the subcommittee he chairs.

 

 

 

Still waiting for you to provide any evidence to the contrary...

 

 

 

How is this not a good thing?:

 

-Obama held assignments on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works and Veterans' Affairs through December 2006.

 

 

 

All of those things I listed a couple posts ago show that he doesn't just sit on his butt and actually does his job, and he does it effectivly. Palin still runs 670,000 people.

 

 

 

Ready to lead 300 Million plus? She's done nothing extraordinary in Alaska, why trust her to America's future?

 

 

 

 

 

Every senator is on committee's. He hasn't done anything worthwhile with being on them. Palin has actually done stuff. She cleaned house of corrupt Republicans, stopped building the bridge to Ketchikan, passed an increase on oil companies(while Obama did the opposite), gave every Alaskan $1200 for energy relief, started the Alaska natural gas pipeline, stood up to the Bush administration's secretary of the interior, and vetoed almost a quarter of a billion dollars of spending.

[NoMoreDead]

Every senator is on committee's. He hasn't done anything worthwhile with being on them. Palin has actually done stuff. She cleaned house of corrupt Republicans, stopped building the bridge to Ketchikan, passed an increase on oil companies(while Obama did the opposite), gave every Alaskan $1200 for energy relief, started the Alaska natural gas pipeline, stood up to the Bush administration's secretary of the interior, and vetoed almost a quarter of a billion dollars of spending.

 

 

 

I'm just going to assume you're being willingfully ignorant to the countless things I've posted that Obama has done worth noting. I cannot argue with a skipping record player.

 

 

 

She cleaned house of corrupt republicans? Meaning...? Source?

 

 

 

Palin actually supported the bridge to nowhere:

 

 

 

[hide=Flip flopping]Palin initially expressed support for the bridge and ran on a "build-the-bridge" platform, arguing that it was essential for local prosperity.[77] After the bridge became a political issue Congress replaced the earmark for the bridge with an infrastructure grant to Alaska to use at its discretion; Palin's subsequent policy was to continue construction on the road originally intended to link to the bridge while exploring less-expensive transportation between Ketchikan and Gravina Island.[78][79][80][/hide]

 

 

 

"Palin has strongly promoted oil and natural gas resource development in Alaska, including in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR), where such development has been the subject of a national debate."

 

-This is NOT helping us get clean energy. This is doing the exact opposite.

 

 

 

"Stood up to Bush's secretary of the interior?" What did she do? No explanation provided for that one.

 

 

 

Vetoed almost a quarter billion dollars in spending? Funny, remember this?:

 

 

 

"In June 2007, Palin signed into law a $6.6 billion operating budgetthe largest in Alaska's history.[71] At the same time, she used her veto power to make the second-largest cuts of the construction budget in state history. The $237 million in cuts represented over 300 local projects, and reduced the construction budget to nearly $1.6 billion.[72]"

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, some comic relief (although I find it quite appalling):

 

[hide=Palin hates Polar Bears]On January 5, 2008, the New York Times published an op-ed by Palin, presenting her view that the polar bear should not be placed on the endangered species list.[66] In May 2008, Palin objected to the decision of Dirk Kempthorne, the Republican United States Secretary of the Interior, to list polar bears federally as an endangered species, saying this move was premature and was not the appropriate management tool for their welfare; the State of Alaska filed a lawsuit to stop the listing amid fears that it would hurt oil and gas development in the bears' habitat off Alaska's northern and northwestern coasts.[67][/hide]

[Zygimantas]

Watching the Republican convention now, it seems like McCain is leaning towards sending u.s troops to help Georgia against Russia :?

[jackattack]

^^ Don't know what you're talking about.

 

 

 

Every senator is on committee's. He hasn't done anything worthwhile with being on them. Palin has actually done stuff. She cleaned house of corrupt Republicans, stopped building the bridge to Ketchikan, passed an increase on oil companies(while Obama did the opposite), gave every Alaskan $1200 for energy relief, started the Alaska natural gas pipeline, stood up to the Bush administration's secretary of the interior, and vetoed almost a quarter of a billion dollars of spending.

 

 

 

I'm just going to assume you're being willingfully ignorant to the countless things I've posted that Obama has done worth noting. I cannot argue with a skipping record player.

 

 

 

She cleaned house of corrupt republicans? Meaning...? Source?

 

 

 

Palin actually supported the bridge to nowhere:

 

 

 

[hide=Flip flopping]Palin initially expressed support for the bridge and ran on a "build-the-bridge" platform, arguing that it was essential for local prosperity.[77] After the bridge became a political issue Congress replaced the earmark for the bridge with an infrastructure grant to Alaska to use at its discretion; Palin's subsequent policy was to continue construction on the road originally intended to link to the bridge while exploring less-expensive transportation between Ketchikan and Gravina Island.[78][79][80][/hide]

 

 

 

"Palin has strongly promoted oil and natural gas resource development in Alaska, including in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR), where such development has been the subject of a national debate."

 

-This is NOT helping us get clean energy. This is doing the exact opposite.

 

 

 

"Stood up to Bush's secretary of the interior?" What did she do? No explanation provided for that one.

 

 

 

Vetoed almost a quarter billion dollars in spending? Funny, remember this?:

 

 

 

"In June 2007, Palin signed into law a $6.6 billion operating budgetthe largest in Alaska's history.[71] At the same time, she used her veto power to make the second-largest cuts of the construction budget in state history. The $237 million in cuts represented over 300 local projects, and reduced the construction budget to nearly $1.6 billion.[72]"

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, some comic relief (although I find it quite appalling):

 

[hide=Palin hates Polar Bears]On January 5, 2008, the New York Times published an op-ed by Palin, presenting her view that the polar bear should not be placed on the endangered species list.[66] In May 2008, Palin objected to the decision of Dirk Kempthorne, the Republican United States Secretary of the Interior, to list polar bears federally as an endangered species, saying this move was premature and was not the appropriate management tool for their welfare; the State of Alaska filed a lawsuit to stop the listing amid fears that it would hurt oil and gas development in the bears' habitat off Alaska's northern and northwestern coasts.[67][/hide]

 

 

 

 

 

Do you actually read what you are posting? You didn't post countless things. You posted seven things. All but one or two of them are meaningless or are bad for Obama. Gov. Palin cleaned house by firing people previous Governor had appointed(which you actually quoted), and launching ethics investigations into the Republican attorney general and chair of the state GOP which led to both their resignations. Palin did originally support the bridge but in the end she didn't use the congressional earmark to build it. Last time I checked natural gas was a fairly clean energy compared to oil. And for the last two...I mean...honestly...READ WHAT YOU QUOTED :wall: It says in there that she vetoed $237 million in spending. And the way she stood up to the Secretary of the Interior you also quoted. #-o She filed a lawsuit against the federal government to stop it. This seems like a good move when the polar bear population has quintupled in the last 30 or so years.

[NoMoreDead]

Do you actually read what you are posting? You didn't post countless things. You posted seven things. All but one or two of them are meaningless or are bad for Obama.

 

 

 

-Show me which ones are meaningless. They all had effects on the country at a national level. Nothing at the national level is meaningless. Apparently, however, flip-flopping on the issue of building a bridge is something of saintly proportions in your eyes. There is no arguing with you if your standards are so insane.

 

 

 

Gov. Palin cleaned house by firing people previous Governor had appointed(which you actually quoted), and launching ethics investigations into the Republican attorney general and chair of the state GOP which led to both their resignations.

 

 

 

-Nothing prominient ever came out of those investigations, mind you.

 

 

 

Palin did originally support the bridge but in the end she didn't use the congressional earmark to build it.

 

 

 

-She still flip-flopped all over that issue. If she can't decide on whether or not to build a bridge, why should I trust her with my economy, or with a war, or with my health care?

 

 

 

Last time I checked natural gas was a fairly clean energy compared to oil.

 

 

 

-*SIGH*:"Palin has strongly promoted oil and natural gas resource development in Alaska".

 

 

 

And for the last two...I mean...honestly...READ WHAT YOU QUOTED :wall: It says in there that she vetoed $237 million in spending.

 

 

 

-No, it says she CUT 237 million dollars of the construction budget, cutting out 300 local projects. It also says she signed into law a 6.6 BILLION DOLLAR operating budget, which is the largest in Alaska history. More money for her to toy with, less for the people working construction jobs.

 

 

 

And the way she stood up to the Secretary of the Interior you also quoted. #-o She filed a lawsuit against the federal government to stop it.

 

 

 

-Where did I quote this?

 

 

 

This seems like a good move when the polar bear population has quintupled in the last 30 or so years.

 

 

 

This seems like a horrible move considering the fact that there are only 25,000 polar bears left in the world, 60% of which is located in Canada.

 

[magekillr]

Obama would put a bureaucrat between you and your doctor under his health care plan

 

 

 

First off Exxon John, this is a lie in and of itself. Those who have insurance now could keep the coverage they have, it's not "universal".

 

 

 

Furthermore, speaking of putting a bureaucrat between you and your doctor, isn't that what you want to do with banning abortions?

[jackattack]

Why is McCain exxon John? Did he vote for tax cuts for oil companies? Oh no wait...that was Obama. And Obama made up some things in his speech too.

 

 

 

[hide=]

Do you actually read what you are posting? You didn't post countless things. You posted seven things. All but one or two of them are meaningless or are bad for Obama.

 

 

 

-Show me which ones are meaningless. They all had effects on the country at a national level. Nothing at the national level is meaningless. Apparently, however, flip-flopping on the issue of building a bridge is something of saintly proportions in your eyes. There is no arguing with you if your standards are so insane.

 

 

 

Gov. Palin cleaned house by firing people previous Governor had appointed(which you actually quoted), and launching ethics investigations into the Republican attorney general and chair of the state GOP which led to both their resignations.

 

 

 

-Nothing prominient ever came out of those investigations, mind you.

 

 

 

Palin did originally support the bridge but in the end she didn't use the congressional earmark to build it.

 

 

 

-She still flip-flopped all over that issue. If she can't decide on whether or not to build a bridge, why should I trust her with my economy, or with a war, or with my health care?

 

 

 

Last time I checked natural gas was a fairly clean energy compared to oil.

 

 

 

-*SIGH*:"Palin has strongly promoted oil and natural gas resource development in Alaska".

 

 

 

And for the last two...I mean...honestly...READ WHAT YOU QUOTED :wall: It says in there that she vetoed $237 million in spending.

 

 

 

-No, it says she CUT 237 million dollars of the construction budget, cutting out 300 local projects. It also says she signed into law a 6.6 BILLION DOLLAR operating budget, which is the largest in Alaska history. More money for her to toy with, less for the people working construction jobs.

 

 

 

And the way she stood up to the Secretary of the Interior you also quoted. #-o She filed a lawsuit against the federal government to stop it.

 

 

 

-Where did I quote this?

 

 

 

This seems like a good move when the polar bear population has quintupled in the last 30 or so years.

 

 

 

This seems like a horrible move considering the fact that there are only 25,000 polar bears left in the world, 60% of which is located in Canada.

 

[/hide]

 

 

 

I've already said this but...The 2005 energy bill was the one that was written by Cheney and gave tax cuts to oil companies, The Iraq war deescalation act would have ensured we lost, the committee assignments aren't meaningful by themselves, and he hasn't held one major hearing on the committee he chairs. It's not a flip flop if there is a valid reason for changing your opinion. Building the bridge was a popular thing in that area. Obama's flip flops are (mostly) done only to help him politically as opposed to doing what is best. She supported increasing American supplies of energy. We need both oil and natural gas which she supported. The budget cuts took nearly a quarter billion from the budget. http://www.alaskajournal.com/stories/07 ... 8005.shtml

 

 

 

She stood up to the secretary of the interior by suing the federal government over putting polar bears as endangered species. The population of 25,000 is up from around 5,000 in the 1970's.

[NoMoreDead]

I've already said this but...The 2005 energy bill was the one that was written by Cheney and gave tax cuts to oil companies The Iraq war deescalation act would have ensured we lost.

 

 

 

-Ensured we lost? There's no reason to be at war in the first place, Jack. We should have never been there in the first place. And how could we lose? There is no organized army to fight? If we up and left, we wouldn't lose, we'd just leave the country by itself, which is what we should have done years ago.

 

 

 

the committee assignments aren't meaningful by themselves,

 

-I'll take that as a white flag. No valid argument, just putting it down for the sake of putting it down.

 

 

 

and he hasn't held one major hearing on the committee he chairs.

 

-Busy running for president me thinks.

 

 

 

It's not a flip flop if there is a valid reason for changing your opinion. Building the bridge was a popular thing in that area. Obama's flip flops are (mostly) done only to help him politically as opposed to doing what is best.

 

 

 

-This is just plain idiotic. It's not a flip flop if the right move was made in the end? Tell that to the Bush administration after they destroyed John Kerry on the basis that he flip-flopped, regaurdless of whether or not he made the right decision. It's a flipptiy-floppity-floo.

 

 

 

She supported increasing American supplies of energy. We need both oil and natural gas which she supported. The budget cuts took nearly a quarter billion from the budget. http://www.alaskajournal.com/stories/07 ... 8005.shtml

 

 

 

-...and yet she STILL managed to enact the highest budget in Alaskan history. We don't need oil, by the way, we need clean burning or non burning energy. Drilling in Alaska is short term, we need a future. Palin has no such plan in place.

 

 

 

She stood up to the secretary of the interior by suing the federal government over putting polar bears as endangered species. The population of 25,000 is up from around 5,000 in the 1970's.

 

 

 

-That's only an average growth rate of about 13.3% a year. Not exactly growing that quickly, and still worthy to be put on the endangered species list. Standing up to a politican over polar bears, again, is not something that should be an outstanding highlight on her resume. If the best she can do is wrongfully argue that polar bears are not going extinct, I stand unimpressed.

[jackattack]

It doesn't matter if we were wrong going in. Do you think Iran or Al Qaida will say that if we leave and not take over Iraq? The committee assignments don't mean anything. Every senator is on committee's. A flip flop is when you change your position for political gain. And the spending cuts are especially good when Alaska has a surplus. She was looking to the future. Since oil production is going down they will probably be facing deficits soon. We do need oil, in the short term and long term. And you think that even though the polar bear population is growing they should be on the endangered species list?

[Necromagus]

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/1 ... nst-obama/

 

 

 

Karl Rove: "McCain has gone in some of his ads similarly gone one step too far in sort of attributing to Obama things that are, you knowbeyond, beyond, beyond the, the 100% truth test."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously though, I'm surprised at how dirty the McCain campaign has gotten. There's "dirty" and then there's "Karl Rove thinks you're going too far".

[jackattack]

Ya I'm also amazed at how low Obama is willing to sink also. Criticizing McCain for saying he doesn't use computers when it is because he has poor dexterity and can't use a keyboard because of his war injures. What happened to Obama taking us beyond this kind of politics?

[Orpheus]

Ya I'm also amazed at how low Obama is willing to sink also. Criticizing McCain for saying he doesn't use computers when it is because he has poor dexterity and can't use a keyboard because of his war injures. What happened to Obama taking us beyond this kind of politics?

 

 

 

Thing is, that's a part of American politics, slinging dirt upon your opponents, to make yourself look better(figuratively).

 

 

 

Is it me, or are the military families going to support McCain? My mom got pissed at me because I support Obama, and since I live in an army family, I'd be expected to support McCain. I told my mom that policies need to be taken into account, not their past, nor what they do as of now. Sure, Obama doesn't say the Pledge, but that's understandable. You don't have to say it, but standing for it is still a sign of respect.

[jackattack]

He does actually say the pledge. I've seen video of him leading it in the Senate. It was just one time where he didn't put his hand over his heart.

 

 

 

EDIT: It's not understandable though.

[db300]

I don't like either of the two front runners at all to be honest. I do believe that John McCain will win though.

[magekillr]

He does actually say the pledge. I've seen video of him leading it in the Senate. It was just one time where he didn't put his hand over his heart.

 

 

 

EDIT: It's not understandable though.

 

 

 

FYI, it was for the National Anthem. Why is that not understandable?

 

 

 

I wouldn't object to children who do not wish to participate in reciting the pledge of allegiance in school either. It's a ridiculous implementation to begin with.

[jackattack]

I wasn't talking about kids. It isn't understandable for a sitting U.S. senator to refuse to say the pledge. He does so it's not an issue. Even Keith Ellison does. And I thought it was the pledge. On his website that's what it says. I guess I was wrong.

[Giordano]

Ya I'm also amazed at how low Obama is willing to sink also. Criticizing McCain for saying he doesn't use computers when it is because he has poor dexterity and can't use a keyboard because of his war injures. What happened to Obama taking us beyond this kind of politics?

 

As if McChrist never did critized Obama. Face it; every candiate so far insulted the other one way or another, including your precious McCain.

 

 

 

And good for him for not saying the pledge. It is a unnessesary thing to do at schools, etc. All it does is ask us for complete loyality, rallying the nation under one with them in charge. Hmmhmm, not gonna happen.

[jackattack]

I never said he didn't. If you actually read he does say the pledge and it wouldn't be good for a sitting U.S. senator to not say the pledge. And I think you are mistaken, Obama is Jesus and Palin is the guy who murdered Jesus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you imagine what would happen it anyone compared Obama to the guy who killed Jesus? I bet the motion to censure him won't even make it to the ethics committee.

[Giordano]

I never said he didn't. If you actually read he does say the pledge and it wouldn't be good for a sitting U.S. senator to not say the pledge. And I think you are mistaken, Obama is Jesus and Palin is the guy who murdered Jesus.

 

 

 

 

 

Can you imagine what would happen it anyone compared Obama to the guy who killed Jesus? I bet the motion to censure him won't even make it to the ethics committee.

 

You lost me on half that post...where in the hell did I say Obama was supposed to be Jesus?! The only reason why I said McChrist is because you adore him like you would to Jesus himself. Dontyagetit?

[cryztalwing]

The Montana Constitution Party and The Louisiana Taxpayers Party had put Ron Paul on thier ticket, even thow Ron Paul is still a Republican. So it looks like that Dr.No will be on the ballot in Montana and Louisiana in November.

 

 

 

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/a ... 22703.html