The Offical TIF American Elections thread

[jackattack]

mage, just because a piece of research doesn't show it, does it mean it's true? If you could hire your boss, would you choose someone who's had decades (I believe?) less experience than another candidate? I'm talking sheer experience. Charisma and the like are a major factor, but experience is still an important part.

 

 

 

I'd choose someone who showed that they had good judgment and leadership because that's what they do, they lead. Furthermore, no one "owns" a company (I know you didn't say that, just saying). It's owned by a Board of Directors. People surround themselves with people who also show good judgment, and are perhaps more experienced than you.

 

 

 

What kind of judgment are we talking about here?

[The_Who]

I don't really like McCain or Obama, but I'll probably end up voting for McCain. I agree with more of his policies than I do with Obama's. That being said, I'm pretty sure Obama is going to win because people want to see a fresh face in office, someone who's on the other side of the spectrum from George W. Bush.

[cryztalwing]

Where is Ron Paul? :lol:

 

 

 

Ron Paul will be at his Rally for the Republic that takes place on August 31- September 2 near the RNC.

 

 

 

http://www.rallyfortherepublic.com/

[Nenga]

I'd vote for Obama. Though I can't vote yet.

[palas1]

mccain ofcourse =D> #-o =P~ :lol: :thumbsup: \ : :thumbup: :D :) :mrgreen: :twisted: :? :o

[BlueTear]

mage, just because a piece of research doesn't show it, does it mean it's true? If you could hire your boss, would you choose someone who's had decades (I believe?) less experience than another candidate? I'm talking sheer experience. Charisma and the like are a major factor, but experience is still an important part.

Depends on what the position actually entails. If it is the same ol' same ol' any plodder can do, sure, grab the guy who's been plodding for a decade. If it's fast position in a fast moving business where innovation matters, grabbing an "inexperienced" candidate not tainted by "this is how it's always done" can be a considerable asset to your company. "Experience" and "performance" are only really inseparable in RPGs.

 

 

 

(Having said that though, I'm just pointing out the flaws on the reasoning, not saying who I'd vote for)

[l0l0lpur32]

I don't want Obama to win, that's all we need is more taxes and further debt. :x

 

 

 

Increasing taxes is how we are going to end the debt.

 

 

 

It's funny, people want to cut programs to end the debt, when the US really doesn't have that many programs as it is. We are pretty damned capitalist, in a major war, have little programs, and you want to CUT taxes??!!?

 

 

 

Jesus crickey, talk about fiscal irresponsibility.

 

Raising taxes will just make the recession even worse. Also, raising taxes does not always mean the revenue from them goes up.

[jackattack]

^^Thats been shown time and time again. Coolidge, Kennedy, Reagan. When Andrew Mellon cut the top tax rates from like 77% to 25% revenue went up. And his tax plan was actually more progressive than what was already in place. It's also been estimated that Bill Clinton would have two thirds more revenue in his first three years of office had he not raised taxes. Obama and democrats just like playing class warfare. He's acknowledged that raising the capital gains tax would lower revenue yet he wants to do it anyway for purposes of "Fairness"

[Kaphias]

Wow, McCain just chose Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his VP. That's one way to steal a possible Obama state.

[deloriagod]

Anybody else starting to think this election is turning into a way to make as much history as possible? First black president, first president who was a PoW, female VP, etc.

 

 

 

Eh, I'm glad to see the VPs have been picked and all. I just wish election day would get here so we could see how this all turns out :-k

[1_man_army]

Wow, McCain just chose Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his VP. That's one way to steal a possible Obama state.

 

 

 

Plus it might get alienated Clinton supporters to vote for him.

[deloriagod]

 

Plus it might get alienated Clinton supporters to vote for him.

 

 

 

I think it's ridiculous that some Clinton supporters are refusing to vote for Obama just because he was chosen over Clinton.

 

 

 

I was willing to vote for Hilary if she was the chosen for the Democratic party, but I'm glad Obama made it. There weren't a whole lot of differences between Clinton and Obama, so why do Clinton supporters feel inclined to vote for McCain instead? Is 4 more years of Bush's policies really a good idea? Are they trying to force a female president on us? I personally think we're ready for a female president, but you can't go and [bleep] up the election just because Clinton didn't make it as the Democratic candidate.

[Faux]

I'm Canadian so I'm not a part of that election, but from this standpoint, Obama and McCain sounds the SAME nowadays. Obama used to be different until he started changing his policies.

 

 

 

Ah politics.

[jackattack]

Overall I'll give McCains pick of Sarah Palin a 8/10. I'd like to see Obama or even McCain for that matter tell her that we shouldn't drill in anwr. I was hoping for a while that he would pick lieberman and then I realized he would have no chance of winning. To Republicans Lieberman is still a democrat and to democrats he is a traitor and a filthy evil money grubbing neocon/jew.

[En_fuego]

I was somewhat on the fence the past couple weeks again, but with Mccain's VP choice there is no doubt in my mind whom I'm going to be voting for now.

[Lenticular_J]

Overall I'll give McCains pick of Sarah Palin a 8/10. I'd like to see Obama or even McCain for that matter tell her that we shouldn't drill in anwr. I was hoping for a while that he would pick lieberman and then I realized he would have no chance of winning. To Republicans Lieberman is still a democrat and to democrats he is a traitor and a filthy evil money grubbing neocon/jew.

 

Wow, that's a fantastic choice. Plus she's a, you know, she, so that will probably score McCain major points.

 

 

 

Judging from that, I would probably vote for McCain. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama ran - and won - either A) A catastrophe and McCain is thrown from office/doesn't have a chance to be reelected, or B) after McCain and Palin did a good job for two terms, but Obama had more years under his belt and more perfected policies.

 

 

 

Still dunno who'll win, though. It'll be close.

[reaper88888]

Green Party. As far as I'm concerned, until the Democrats start running candidates without hidden agendas or conservative economic advisors, I'm staying away from them.

 

 

 

 

 

On another topic, one of the best candidates is unrepresented; Vermin Supreme. (http://minorcandidates.com/supreme.php)

[Princess Viola]

Obama FTW! Even though I can't vote, Obama FTW! Also, we should call Obama and Binden Obama Bin Binden!

[Deiophobus]

Obama FTW! Even though I can't vote, Obama FTW! Also, we should call Obama and Binden Obama Bin Binden!

 

 

 

How about not?

[magekillr]

I don't want Obama to win, that's all we need is more taxes and further debt. :x

 

 

 

Increasing taxes is how we are going to end the debt.

 

 

 

It's funny, people want to cut programs to end the debt, when the US really doesn't have that many programs as it is. We are pretty damned capitalist, in a major war, have little programs, and you want to CUT taxes??!!?

 

 

 

Jesus crickey, talk about fiscal irresponsibility.

 

Raising taxes will just make the recession even worse. Also, raising taxes does not always mean the revenue from them goes up.

 

 

 

I'd rather reduce our debt and get out of the Iraq war, and risk making the recession worse, than cut taxes on people and further our debt.

 

 

 

You are correct, but remember "does not ALWAYS". Many economists believe the US's taxes are FAR too low, and our revenue will increase a great deal. Remember Reagan's cuts in 1981 resulted in 3% less revenue.

 

 

 

Jack, you're using Andrew Mellon, a criminal of tax fraud, as an example? lol... Coolidge's lack of doing anything while President is part of the reason for the Great Depression...I blame him, not Harding, for the Depression. Whatever, the market and the "Invisible Hand" (sounds almost like a religion) will guide the way right?

 

 

 

Wow, McCain just chose Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his VP. That's one way to steal a possible Obama state.

 

 

 

Alaska is a Republican state.

 

 

 

Plus it might get alienated Clinton supporters to vote for him.

 

 

 

Glad you italicized the word might. Most Clinton supporters I know took it as an insult.

 

 

 

I'm Canadian so I'm not a part of that election, but from this standpoint, Obama and McCain sounds the SAME nowadays. Obama used to be different until he started changing his policies.

 

 

 

 

Lol, sound the same because he changed his policies? May I ask, what policies you are talking about?

 

 

 

Wow, that's a fantastic choice.

 

 

 

Mind explaining how this is a fantastic choice?

 

 

 

McCain is an idiot for picking Palin. The election isn't over, but it just made things a hell of a lot easier. Elections come down to independents, and to risk everything on the gamble that media-hyped disgruntled Clinton supporters will flock to him because she has a vagina is pretty laughable. I know Will Bower, and I know how big his support is. My friend has talked to him on the phone and I quote:

 

 

 

Will Bower told me personally that he had raised over $10,000,000 in 3 weeks. The final total -- $45,000 in two months. Will Bower also invited me to the national PUMA Conference and warned me to sign up quick because there were only 250 spots. Less than two dozen people attended. Among the attendees, a former Lyndon Larouche advisor and noted anti-Semite Andy Martin.

 

 

 

I know weekly Dungeons and Dragons groups that have more political clout than PUMA.

 

 

 

However, here's my analysis on the pick:

 

 

 

It's obvious to me that McCain [cabbage] his pants after hearing Obama's speech. He knew he had absolutely no shot at winning this thing, there was just no way in hell it could happen. I think he was waiting for our Convention to unfold to see if we would be united, or if we would be split.

 

 

 

Had he seen a split, he would not have picked a woman, or perhaps not as conservative of a woman, because there would be no need to fan the flames of breaking the party in two. With the Democratic Party split, why the need for a woman on the ticket? They would perhaps flock to him, or not vote at all regardless of who he picked.

 

 

 

However, what happened made McCain and all of his advisers see the reality that the Democrats are not split, but united. He is looking to make a divisive pick in Palin to make Hillary supporters remember that Obama "overlooked" Clinton, and flock them over for her vagina, while at the same time keeping his conservative base alive and well and happy (as they were not supportive of McCain from the get-go).

 

 

 

So here's his goal:

 

 

 

1.) Douse gasoline on the Democratic "split fire" that has been stomped out by Hillary, Biden, Barack, and Bill, leaving just a few smoldering ashes.

 

2.) Bring his Conservative base together.

 

3.) Throw all his chips, dice, and other gambling devices on the table in an "all-in" move of desperation.

 

 

 

He knows he had no shot, so when you have no shot, why not try everything you have with a huge gamble?

 

 

 

Word is he only met with her once before this pick; to me he made the choice at the last minute. So much for putting country first? I mean I find that statement despicable in itself, but McCain cares nothing about America, and he showed it in his pick of Palin.

[Necromagus]

I believe that Palin's stance on abortion (not even in the case of incest or rape) is probably enough to scare off a lot of democrats and independents. She might actually end up costing McCain the state of Florida, as she has actively supported, to the point of participating fund raisers for, the 2000 presidential campaign of Pat Buchanan. The fact that she's firmly in the pockets of big oil will also be used against her.

[En_fuego]

Shes been in discussion as a possible VP since March.

 

 

 

It's not a coincidence, it is one reason amongst many.

 

Personally I think John McCain picked Palin for 3 key strategic reasons, and several lesser ones.

 

 

 

1. She has a history of fighting corruption and other big government ills and succeeding at that. Her tenure as governor of Alaska has also been very successful and that lends credibility to her governing ability. She is immensely popular in her home state: her approval rating has never dipped below 50% and it usually is in the 60-70 percentile, and her rating has been known to temporarily [bleep]e into the 80s.

 

 

 

2. She is a woman, and of course that helps McCain out with his all important task of snatching independents and Democrats who will not vote for Obama for any one of a number of reasons most related to a perceived DNC mistreatment of Hillary. (even though, ironically, Hillary seems just fine with how things played out) Her selection also helps to slacken the perception amongst some that the GOP is the white gentleman's exclusive political club.

 

 

 

3. Any fears about GOP conservative wing rebellion that McCain might have had are now a non-issue. Palin is a traditional conservative, as in the kind of Republican that actually sticks to the idea of limited government in all forms even after they get into office. She is also a religious-based values person although she's no bigot, apparently she has several gay friends and isn't known to be very fundamentalist. Makes the Christian Republicans happy without alienating moderates.

 

 

 

A few minor features, which may or may not have some play...

 

 

 

* She's apparently a very talented orator and debater, both skills will help her out in the VP debate against Biden which now of course is going to be quite the spectacle and probably more people will watch it than ever before.

 

 

 

* Her son's about to go to Iraq... although McCain on his own already has a lock on military voters and their families and supporters so it probably won't make all that much of a difference.

 

 

 

* Her personal history lends to an opportunity for the McCain camp to create an image of the people's politician to counter Obama's massive populist aura that forms every time the man opens his mouth or smiles.

 

 

 

* The Governor of Alaska and his/her administration, unlike any other state government, has the responsibility to reach separate arrangements with a foreign nation, in this case Canada, regarding cross border relations due to the fact that Alaska is geographically separated from the lower 48 and is of course completely surrounded by Canadian territory. This gives anyone who has served for a significant time in that position some limited diplomacy and foreign policy cred, although exactly how much this has affected Palin in her relatively short tenure (just under two years) I don't know.

 

 

 

Republicans can no longer bring in the 'inexperience card' with this choice, but Obama dare not do that either. Palin technically has more executive experience than Obama and Biden combined.

 

 

 

Democrats can say Mccain chose Palin for her pretty face and being a female, with no experience its a worthless pick and there were so many other better qualified choices out there. But Republicans can say the same, they chose Obama for a pretty black face, because there were so many more better qualified choices out there.

 

 

 

After Barry's "historic" speech Mccain makes his choice. Instead of the media talking about Barry's speech its all about Palin, perfectly executed by Mccain.

 

 

 

With her being relatively unknown Democrats have to dig deep and search for dirt on her, and it may actually take time as she seems pretty clean. This choice has sent quite a few democrats into a raged frenzy, saying this is a terrible choice for VP, blah blah blah.

 

 

 

Believe it or not she will attract alot of Hillary voters. If you went to the PUMA websites and Hillary websites there was an OVERWHELMING majority saying they are now voting for Mccain.

 

 

 

And just for fun....

 

 

 

http://web.me.com/dnksr/vpilf.com/SARAH ... Palin.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

10 Things You Didn't Know About Sarah Palin

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.usnews.com

 

 

 

 

 

1. Sarah Louise Palin (nee Heath) was born Feb., 1964, in Sandpoint, Idaho. Her family moved to Alaska when Sarah was an infant. Her father, Chuck, is a retired schoolteacher.

 

 

 

 

 

2. She attended Wasilla High School where she played point guard on the state champion basketball team. Her nickname was "Sarah Barracuda."

 

 

 

 

 

3. Palin graduated in 1987 from the University of Idaho with a degree in journalism. She worked briefly as a sports reporter in Anchorage.

 

 

 

 

 

4. She refers to her husband, Todd, as the "First Dude." He's worked as a commercial fisherman and as a production operator on the North Slope for BP. He enjoys snowmobiling and has won the Tesoro Iron Dog, billed as the world's longest snowmobile race, four times.

 

 

 

 

 

5. Palin and her husband have five children, Bristol, Piper, Track, Willow, and Trig. Trig, born in 2008, has been diagnosed with Down syndrome. Her son Track joined the army in 2007.

 

 

 

 

 

6. Her favorite meal is moose stew.

 

 

 

 

 

7. She comes from a family of outdoor enthusiasts. Her parents, Chuck and Sally Heath, enjoy hunting and fishing, and have both completed marathons.

 

 

 

 

 

8. Palin was named Miss Wasilla in 1984 and was a runner-up for Miss Alaska. In 1996 she was elected mayor of Wasilla.

 

 

 

 

 

9. She's a lifetime NRA member and enjoys hunting, fishing, and snowmobiling.

 

 

 

 

 

10. Elected in 2006, she's Alaska's first female governor and the youngest governor elected in the state.

 

[Ginger_Warrior]

Shes been in discussion as a possible VP since March.

 

Is that why a veteran inside the Republican party admitted on Newsnight last night they'd never even heard of her?

 

 

 

Her choice as VP reeks of sheer audacity, and against a candidate who is totally audacious himself, it's a bad move. McCain has lost two of his big cards running into the Republicans' Party Conference later on this week. His main weapon was Obama's lack of experience - his VP has been a senator for just two years. His stance as a pro-family candidate is also in danger, given her husband-in-law's divorce situation. Hillary's supporters are anti-Obama, or rather, they feel there was a certain injustice in the primaries, rather than pro-anything McCain can offer. I don't really feel a women VP, especially one with a demeanor as arrogant as hers, will affect Hillary's supporters all that much after Hillary's speech at the DPC before.

 

 

 

That said, I had my head in my hands about the Democrats. Allowing Obama to continue his aloofness was a total mistake. What on Earth was with the Greek pillars, except to [bleep] off those who are alienated by the Republicans because of Bush, but unsure of Obama? Even if Obama did get the Democrat nomination, the whole conference was about the Clintons. The polls are continuing to show, just as they did during the primaries, that Hillary would stand more of a chance against McCain than Obama.

 

 

 

This was a run-in for the Democrats two years ago. Now it's looking doubtful. Choosing Obama may prove to be a catastrophic mistake yet. (Except of course, if you count a certain two states, they didn't)

[Kaphias]

Wow, McCain just chose Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his VP. That's one way to steal a possible Obama state.

 

 

 

Alaska is a Republican state.

 

It was actually quite close this year. Also notice I said possible...

[En_fuego]

A simple Google search with "sarah palin VP" will suffice, many of the discussions date back to Winter-Spring of her being a possible choice for VP.