The Offical TIF American Elections thread

[magekillr]

*Sigh* It's like people ignore me, a person who is a campaign insider, and follow the media for how important PUMA and other anti-Obama groups actually are. Their support is so minuscule, stop letting the media play that narrative.

 

 

 

Chuck Todd finally called the media out for it the other day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I volunteer regularly, I talk to Hillary insiders everyday, I know how much support these people have, and it's less than 300 members, with minimal financial support.

[jackattack]

 

I'd rather reduce our debt and get out of the Iraq war, and risk making the recession worse, than cut taxes on people and further our debt.

 

 

 

You are correct, but remember "does not ALWAYS". Many economists believe the US's taxes are FAR too low, and our revenue will increase a great deal. Remember Reagan's cuts in 1981 resulted in 3% less revenue.

 

 

 

Jack, you're using Andrew Mellon, a criminal of tax fraud, as an example? lol... Coolidge's lack of doing anything while President is part of the reason for the Great Depression...I blame him, not Harding, for the Depression. Whatever, the market and the "Invisible Hand" (sounds almost like a religion) will guide the way right?

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure Andrew Mellon was exhonerated. He knew from firsthand experience that when taxes are too high people avoid paying them and the government collects less revenue. He put in a 50% tax decrease in the upper bracket and an eightfold tax decrease for lower brackets which made taxes more progressive and increased revenue. Tax cuts did not cause the great depression but fdr's tax hikes prolonged it. And I doubt that many economists think we should raise taxes. 300 economists already signed onto John McCain's economic plan. And over Reagan's whole term tax revenues went up very substantially. We are still probably on the wrong side of the laffer curve yet Obama still wants to play class warfare. Obama's new spending will raise the debt more than McCain's tax cuts. And Iraq isn't an issue unless things start to head downhill in which case Obama will be screwed.

 

 

 

And why are you hating on Sarah Palin? He didn't pick her to get Hillary supporters. No one who liked Hillary would like Sarah Palin so that doesn't really make any sense.

[Faux]

 

Lol, sound the same because he changed his policies? May I ask, what policies you are talking about?

 

 

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25519279/

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02094.html

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25673270/

 

 

 

The guy's a typical politician. Flip flopping like a fish all over the place. Dunno why people like you think he's the messiah.

[Faux]

And why are you hating on Sarah Palin? He didn't pick her to get Hillary supporters. No one who liked Hillary would like Sarah Palin so that doesn't really make any sense.

 

 

 

Lol, you know what's funny? People [cabbage]ting on Palin for lack of experience when she has more executive experience than Obama

[jackattack]

And why are you hating on Sarah Palin? He didn't pick her to get Hillary supporters. No one who liked Hillary would like Sarah Palin so that doesn't really make any sense.

 

 

 

Lol, you know what's funny? People [cabbage] on Palin for lack of experience when she has more executive experience than Obama

 

 

 

 

 

Obama was in the senate for something like less than 150 days before he decided to run for president. And I'd put executive experience as governor of the largest state in the union at 3 or 4 to one compared to legislative. I still would have prefered Romney but she's all right. I still think it's a shame that McCain didn't rescue Lieberman from being in purgatory next year in the senate. Once the democrats have their majority he gonna be thrown completely under the bus. Shame really. He's one of the few democrats still in the tradition of JFK.

 

 

 

I also loved how after his speech Obama played the music from remember the titans and McCain played the music from Rudy when he announced Palin. And I loved watching Keith Olbermann and Mathews get into it on air.

[Necromagus]

Looks like the Republican convention is on hold because of Gustav...

[NoMoreDead]

And why are you hating on Sarah Palin? He didn't pick her to get Hillary supporters. No one who liked Hillary would like Sarah Palin so that doesn't really make any sense.

 

 

 

Lol, you know what's funny? People [cabbage] on Palin for lack of experience when she has more executive experience than Obama

 

 

 

You neglect to mention that Obama has been a part of our Legislative branch for twice as long as Palin has been part of our Executive branch.

 

 

 

If anything, Obama's experience is more valuable because he understands how Congress works and can easily connect with the Legislative branch on any and all issues. Palin having Executive experience seems to be the only argument when comparing the two's records, and Obama is in charge of 19 times as many people as Palin. What branch of the government you come from only goes so far. Obama's experience will do him wonders. Palin isn't even going to be the head of the Executive branch if her ticket wins, so I don't really understand why it even matters.

 

 

 

Obama was in the senate for something like less than 150 days before he decided to run for president. And I'd put executive experience as governor of the largest state in the union at 3 or 4 to one compared to legislative.

 

 

 

Completely wrong:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/10/ ... index.html

 

 

 

Obama became a Senator in 2004. Two and a half years compared to your (less than) 150 days.

 

 

 

I don't understand why Executive experience matters so much more than Legislative. All branches have equal power. If anything, being connected with two branches is BETTER than simply being confined to one branch. Your argument will most likely be: "He's going to be holding an Executive position." Don't worry, Obama will have a cabinet of advisors who can help him out if he gets into any trouble remembering what branch he's a part of.

[wild_goat_14]

If anything, Obama's experience is more valuable because he understands how Congress works and can easily connect with the Legislative branch on any and all issues. Palin having Executive experience seems to be the only argument when comparing the two's records, and Obama is in charge of 19 times as many people as Palin. What branch of the government you come from only goes so far. Obama's experience will do him wonders. Palin isn't even going to be the head of the Executive branch if her ticket wins, so I don't really understand why it even matters.

 

 

 

No, Obama is directly in charge of nobody. His vote alone doesn't affect people directly, he's not even making state laws. He is 1/100th of the branch that makes the laws for those people in Illionis, so he's not "in charge" of them, but the governor of Illionis is. Obama is just another vote of 100(on the rare occaision that he actually takes a vote)

 

 

 

On the other hand, if Sarah Palin decides to take an 18 month break from office, she needs another person to stay and do her job, instead of leaving a blank vote, because she is the ONE vote from that branch. I'd say Palin has a bigger job.

[jackattack]

I think you're forgetting that as the Governor she had to work with the state legislature. Legislative experience is inferior because there is not really as much pressure. You're not really responsible for anything. You can skip votes, miss hearnings, or not introduce any legislation and unless it's an election year nobody will really care. Unless you are in a leadership position. As a governor you have to actually run the state.

 

 

 

Obama became a Senator in 2004. Two and a half years compared to your (less than) 150 days.

 

 

 

It was actual days in the senate.

[magekillr]

And why are you hating on Sarah Palin? He didn't pick her to get Hillary supporters. No one who liked Hillary would like Sarah Palin so that doesn't really make any sense.

 

 

 

Please, it was the biggest pander he could possibly make. Why would he pick her over Governor Huckabee who has a ton more experience than she does ("executive"), riles up the Conservative base, is MUCH more well known, and isn't a Washington Insider?

 

 

 

Or what of Mitt Romney? He came in second place, is "good with the economy" (not like I believe that, but it would be his talking point), would secure Florida, make Michigan competitive, has Governor and CEO experience...

 

 

 

Why did he pick her? Because she does what Huckabee does, plus has a chance at nabbing women voters because of her plumbing.

 

 

 

He's also been twisting the experience line around too. Whenever people call her out on it, he says "experience doesn't make that much of a difference, I am confident in her judgment and ability." Whenever people call Obama out on it, it's "He is not experience enough to do this job!"

 

 

 

It's a blatant hypocrisy and it was obviously a pander pick. A lot of women are pissed off to hell with it, too.

 

 

 

 

The guy's a typical politician. Flip flopping like a fish all over the place. Dunno why people like you think he's the messiah.

 

 

 

Erm...so you say he's a politician, and then act like he's not...I don't get it.

 

 

 

By the way, he did not flip-flop on Public Financing, or the war. Decriminalization on marijuana I will give you. Public financing he said he would pursue McCain about it and try and reach an agreement. He also said he would seek to change the ways that campaigns were funding. Technically, he just flipped Public Financing on its side because of how well he changed campaign financing. The war he has always said "We need to be as careful getting out as we were careless getting in." Over, and over, and over.

 

 

 

I still concede that he's a politician, because um....he's a politician?

 

 

 

Anyway, onto this "experience argument".

 

 

 

I have said time and time again: Experience does not matter if the proper judgment is executed. That is what experience does: it molds character and develops the person with insight and knowledge to execute proper judgment.

 

 

 

Now if you want to go onto the experience argument, let's go there.

 

 

 

Obama's executive experience far exceeds anything Palin could even hope to dream of. Has anyone forgotten that he has been campaigning LONGER than Palin has been Governor? I mean, I don't know about you, but the term "managing a campaign" kind of has the hint that you need to know how to MANAGE your campaign. He faced the Clintons, quite possibly the best campaigners in the history of politics, one of which was a PREVIOUS President who no doubt had a lot of influence in how the campaign was managed, and yet...Obama beats them. I mean...give me a [bleep]ing break.

 

 

 

Executive Experience... :lol:

 

 

 

edit: Oh look what I found:

 

 

 

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Arc ... l=GooglePM

[Yomyth105]

cant believe ppl r voting for obama these days. :roll:

[Kenshinjapan]

I have said time and time again: Experience does not matter if the proper judgment is executed. That is what experience does: it molds character and develops the person with insight and knowledge to execute proper judgment.

 

 

 

Sooo, experience doesn't matter if there's proper judgement, but experience improves judgement...? :s

[magekillr]

I have said time and time again: Experience does not matter if the proper judgment is executed. That is what experience does: it molds character and develops the person with insight and knowledge to execute proper judgment.

 

 

 

Sooo, experience doesn't matter if there's proper judgement, but experience improves judgement...? :s

 

 

 

It can, that's what it SHOULD do...but even the most experienced have lapses in judgment ([bleep] Cheney), and now more importantly, John Russia Should Be Booted From The G8 McCain.

 

 

 

Oh, so Sarah Palin is a member of the Alaskan Independence Party.

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaskan_Independence_Party

 

 

 

Now I must ask this sarcastic question: Does Sarah Palin love America as much as Jeramiah Wright?

[Deiophobus]

cant believe ppl r voting for obama these days. :roll:

 

 

 

Care to elaborate?

[wild_goat_14]

cant believe ppl r voting for obama these days. :roll:

 

 

 

Care to elaborate?

 

 

 

I was about to tell him that he sounded like a racist because of that, because he didn't elaborate, so he will get flamed to hell and back, especially with the huge Obama support here.

[jackattack]

[hide=]

And why are you hating on Sarah Palin? He didn't pick her to get Hillary supporters. No one who liked Hillary would like Sarah Palin so that doesn't really make any sense.

 

 

 

Please, it was the biggest pander he could possibly make. Why would he pick her over Governor Huckabee who has a ton more experience than she does ("executive"), riles up the Conservative base, is MUCH more well known, and isn't a Washington Insider?

 

 

 

Or what of Mitt Romney? He came in second place, is "good with the economy" (not like I believe that, but it would be his talking point), would secure Florida, make Michigan competitive, has Governor and CEO experience...

 

 

 

Why did he pick her? Because she does what Huckabee does, plus has a chance at nabbing women voters because of her plumbing.

 

 

 

He's also been twisting the experience line around too. Whenever people call her out on it, he says "experience doesn't make that much of a difference, I am confident in her judgment and ability." Whenever people call Obama out on it, it's "He is not experience enough to do this job!"

 

 

 

It's a blatant hypocrisy and it was obviously a pander pick. A lot of women are pissed off to hell with it, too.

 

 

 

 

The guy's a typical politician. Flip flopping like a fish all over the place. Dunno why people like you think he's the messiah.

 

 

 

Erm...so you say he's a politician, and then act like he's not...I don't get it.

 

 

 

By the way, he did not flip-flop on Public Financing, or the war. Decriminalization on marijuana I will give you. Public financing he said he would pursue McCain about it and try and reach an agreement. He also said he would seek to change the ways that campaigns were funding. Technically, he just flipped Public Financing on its side because of how well he changed campaign financing. The war he has always said "We need to be as careful getting out as we were careless getting in." Over, and over, and over.

 

 

 

I still concede that he's a politician, because um....he's a politician?

 

 

 

Anyway, onto this "experience argument".

 

 

 

I have said time and time again: Experience does not matter if the proper judgment is executed. That is what experience does: it molds character and develops the person with insight and knowledge to execute proper judgment.

 

 

 

Now if you want to go onto the experience argument, let's go there.

 

 

 

Obama's executive experience far exceeds anything Palin could even hope to dream of. Has anyone forgotten that he has been campaigning LONGER than Palin has been Governor? I mean, I don't know about you, but the term "managing a campaign" kind of has the hint that you need to know how to MANAGE your campaign. He faced the Clintons, quite possibly the best campaigners in the history of politics, one of which was a PREVIOUS President who no doubt had a lot of influence in how the campaign was managed, and yet...Obama beats them. I mean...give me a [bleep] break.

 

 

 

Executive Experience... :lol:

 

 

 

edit: Oh look what I found:

 

 

 

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Arc ... l=GooglePM

[/hide]

 

 

 

Just think about it. What woman who supported Hillary Clinton would like Sarah Palin? He would have gotten more women votes with Tom Ridge or Joe Lieberman. If women are pissed off about it why the hell would he have picked her to get women votes? What happened was probably his advisers flat out told him he could not pick Ridge or Lieberman and he hates Romney so he picked her. I probably would have preferred Romney, Lieberman or Ridge. He just liked Sarah Palin because she is kind of like him. A reformer who isn't afraid to go against the party. You're right about her experience though. And Obama did flip flop on public financing. When it was politically convenient he was a crusader for campaign finance reform and would aggressively pursue an agreement with his opponent to accept public financing. When he had the advantage he did the exact opposite. And I don't know what you mean by saying he changed campaign financing. And running a campaign isn't experience because you have other people do it for you. Why do you think they are both running negative ads? It's not in either of their characters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It can, that's what it SHOULD do...but even the most experienced have lapses in judgment ([bleep] Cheney), and now more importantly, John Russia Should Be Booted From The G8 McCain.

 

 

 

Cheney hasn't had many lapses in judgment. Maybe the Valerie Plame thing if he was actually involved in that. And if you want to bring up russia you were the one who said that is was a 3 am test that he failed. When he was the one who came out of the gate hard at russia and Obama came out with a weak statement basically saying "oh everybody should kiss and make up" And I'm pretty sure Sarkozy has said he is considering that too.

 

 

 

Does Sarah Palin love America as much as Jeramiah Wright?

 

 

 

Why was she in his church for 20 years?

[1_man_army]

 

 

 

Maybe not Lieberman because he's a filthy jew.

 

 

 

Was there any need for that comment?

[magekillr]

 

 

 

Maybe not Lieberman because he's a filthy jew.

 

 

 

Was there any need for that comment?

 

 

 

Yes, because he is a bigot. It also undermines all of his post, and I see no reason to further respond to anything he says.

[jackattack]

No because the democrats don't take to kindly to jews these days.

[1_man_army]

Hmmm what happened to the offending statement? Are we backtracking or did tip.it take it out?

[magekillr]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/po ... ref=slogin

 

 

 

Lieberman was his first choice.

[jackattack]

Why would I take it out? It's already been quoted. And Hillary was one of the democrats who endorsed Lamont in the Connecticut senate race. Obviously she's no fan of jews/neocons so I don't think picking him would have gotten McCain any democrat votes. Maybe a few people who voted for Gore. Lieberman's going to be a lame duck if the dems pick up even one or two seats. He'll probably get his committee taken away, despite the fact that he still caucuses with the democrats. His only chance is if McCain makes him secretary of state or head of homeland security.

[NoMoreDead]

I think you're forgetting that as the Governor she had to work with the state legislature. Legislative experience is inferior because there is not really as much pressure. You're not really responsible for anything. You can skip votes, miss hearnings, or not introduce any legislation and unless it's an election year nobody will really care. Unless you are in a leadership position. As a governor you have to actually run the state.

 

 

 

Obama became a Senator in 2004. Two and a half years compared to your (less than) 150 days.

 

 

 

It was actual days in the senate.

 

 

 

No, it wasn't actual days in the senate. He took office in January of '05. Still about Two and a half years.

 

 

 

By the way, Obama made it to more votes than McCain, so playing that card is useless. No, you cannot loaf it once in office, especially if you plan on getting elected president. He did more in a short period of time than most.

 

 

 

As a governor, you aren't just handed a state by the federal govt. and get told: "Run it." Obama is in charge of keeping over 12 million people happy. Palin is in charge of a mere 670,000. Senators work just as hard as governors, especially those who are running for president.

[En_fuego]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

 

 

 

Lieberman was his first choice.

 

 

 

That would've been more political suicide than choosing Palin.

[magekillr]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

 

 

 

Lieberman was his first choice.

 

 

 

That would've been more political suicide than choosing Palin.

 

 

 

At this present time I would be inclined to agree with you, but the fact that she was vetted one day before being chosen could prove that she was a worse choice.

 

 

 

Both say wonders about his judgment in appointing executive positions ;)