Islam Ads on Buses

[Mercifull]

It's the same principle. You can't accuse Islam of being bad because it was founded on violence, and then conveniently gloss over the fact Jesus used violence himself.

Its not conveniently glossing over violence in other religions at all. This is a thread on islam not "violence in religions". I disagree with all religions equally as much as I do islam I have no bias about not liking a particular religion more than another. However the koran is the literal word of god unlike the bible which was wirtten by many people. The text in the koran is supposed to be exactly as written by allah though muhammad himself and such it is supposed to be infaliable. Everything that is written is "fact" and not up for interpretation and thats what makes it so disturbing. To challenge the text in the koran is a direct challenge to allah.

 

 

 

5:33 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;

[Ginger_Warrior]

It's the same principle. You can't accuse Islam of being bad because it was founded on violence, and then conveniently gloss over the fact Jesus used violence himself.

Its not conveniently glossing over violence in other religions at all. This is a thread on islam not "violence in religions". I disagree with all religions equally as much as I do islam I have no bias about not liking a particular religion more than another. However the koran is the literal word of god unlike the bible which was wirtten by many people. The text in the koran is supposed to be exactly as written by allah though muhammad himself and such it is supposed to be infaliable. Everything that is written is "fact" and not up for interpretation and thats what makes it so disturbing. To challenge the text in the koran is a direct challenge to allah.

 

Firstly, there is never a "factual" interpretation of a religious book, since by its very nature, an interpretation may as well be an opinion on what the book means. I find that a common misunderstanding with Atheists. You seem to argue a religious book means literally what it says on the page when not even its followers do.

 

 

 

Unless you're saying that each and every Muslim follows the exact same religious regime (which they don't - there are many sects just as there are in the broader Christian community), then to say the Qur'an has only one literal interpretation is plainly wrong.

 

 

 

Secondly, your background knowledge about Islam is wrong at the most basic level. Allah, according to the Islamic faith, sent 124,000 messengers into the world, five of whom were noted for their perseverance and devotion towards Allah despite great suffering as a result. Muhammad is one of these five prophets. Your statement that Allah gave all his messages in the Qur'an through Muhammad and Muhammad alone is wrong.

 

 

 

Thirdly, it seems strange you would argue about Muhammad, and fail to mention in particular each of the twenty prophets' stance on idolatry and paganism, both of which were common features of barbarianism, thus running counter to your initial statement that it is a "barbaric" religion.

[Saru Inc]

Despite me being a Christian, I couldn't care if they did put that up there. Yes, it's not what I believe, but many people in our country died, so people can believe what they want to believe, so I'm not going to stop them.

[Mercifull]

This is not a thread about atrocities in other religious texts. Stop making straw man arguments.

[jackattack]

I'm pretty sure Osama Bin Laden does. :wall:

 

You're trying to argue 100 million Muslims want to kill you because one complete nutjob does, and he happens to use some twisted interpretation of the Qu'ran in justification?

 

 

 

Frankly, I wonder to myself how many of these Islamist Extremists even abide by sawm during Ramadan, while they're training to wage war against the west. Half of them relate nothing to spiritual Islam.

 

 

 

Terrorists are despicable. But to suggest each and every Muslim wants to kill you is just plain crazy, it really is.

 

 

 

 

 

I never said each and every muslim wants to kill me. All I said is if even 10% of muslims accept extremist interpretations of the Qu'ran that is still 100 million. I made that figure up. It may be 5%. Even that is at at least 50 million.

[Ginger_Warrior]

This is not a thread about atrocities in other religious texts. Stop making straw man arguments.

 

The whole of my last post was taken straight from common Islamic interpretation of the Qur'an - no other religious text concerned. Where was the "strawman"?

 

 

 

I never said each and every muslim wants to kill me. All I said is if even 10% of muslims accept extremist interpretations of the Qu'ran that is still 100 million. I made that figure up. It may be 5%. Even that is at at least 50 million.

 

IF, jack, IF. There's nothing to suggest even 1% of Muslims believe in such romantic political idealism, and even if they did, that they would have the desire or capability to launch a terrorist attack.

 

 

 

The vast majority of Islamic fundamentalists are not Muslims by definition. This "jihad" that currently occupies the War on Terror is not even justified by the Qur'an itself under the concept of a "just war". The 9/11 attacks themselves broke the terms of Islamic jihad, on the grounds they destroyed non-human life, as well as innocent humans who were armless, and quite clearly were not acts of self-defence. That's not just my opinion either. The attacks were condemned by Muslims across the world.

 

 

 

You act as though you oppose everything the man says, but you seem to have been bought into this false jihad nonsense Osama Bin Laden talks about just as much the extremists themselves are.

[jackattack]

There are many top imams who preach extremist islam. That would lead me to believe it is a substantial number of muslims who buy into extremism. And the I forget the whole story but before 9/11 some Saudi imam told Bin Laden the exact number of people he could kill. It was like 3 million innocent people and 1 million children.

[l0l0lpur32]

The vast majority of Islamic fundamentalists are not Muslims by definition.

 

Who decides that?

[EdgedThesis]

The Qur'an does.

 

 

 

A text dictated by the deity that you are asking about does.

[megakiller32]

The Qur'an does.

 

 

 

A text dictated by the deity that you are asking about does.

 

 

 

to be honest, you have to be pretty sheep-like to follow the extremists lines in the Quar'an that say "Jews and Christians are pigs, and should not be treated equally"

[Ginger_Warrior]

There are many top imams who preach extremist islam. That would lead me to believe it is a substantial number of muslims who buy into extremism. And the I forget the whole story but before 9/11 some Saudi imam told Bin Laden the exact number of people he could kill. It was like 3 million innocent people and 1 million children.

 

Oh please. One Imam told Bin Laden that? That's like saying Obama's old pastor is mainstream Christianity. Totally ridiculous.

 

 

 

The vast majority of Islamic fundamentalists are not Muslims by definition.

 

Who decides that?

 

The fact many of them have already broken the fundamental principle of jihad, as the rest of that paragraph explained.

[Saru Inc]

Once again GW, ilu but I gotta disagree with ya here.

 

 

 

Islam is not a religion of peace, no matter what anyone says, including Muslims themselves. It is a religion of Hate, the Sharia law (that's probably not how it's spelled but I have no idea how it is) seems a bit strange, but overall not too bad, but there are some wierd and disgusting\plain old violent stuff in there. Like how it's good for a woman to drink a prophet's urine. Wtf?

 

 

 

Also it's funny, how everyone, Atheists and all are ok with pretty much every religion except Christianity. lol.

[EdgedThesis]

The Qur'an does.

 

 

 

A text dictated by the deity that you are asking about does.

 

 

 

to be honest, you have to be pretty sheep-like to follow the extremists lines in the Quar'an that say "Jews and Christians are pigs, and should not be treated equally"

 

 

 

Nah, I was replying to the question about what defines the line between fundamentalists and true Muslims.

 

 

 

The Qur'an.

 

 

 

And I thought the Qur'an holds Jews and Christians in high esteem? I was born a Muslim, and I havent even read it--which is pretty stupid, but meh.

[jackattack]

There are many top imams who preach extremist islam. That would lead me to believe it is a substantial number of muslims who buy into extremism. And the I forget the whole story but before 9/11 some Saudi imam told Bin Laden the exact number of people he could kill. It was like 3 million innocent people and 1 million children.

 

Oh please. One Imam told Bin Laden that? That's like saying Obama's old pastor is mainstream Christianity. Totally ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

 

There are not many churches like trinity church. That is one of the few churches in the country that preaches black liberation theology. Not even many black churches preach that. There are an awful lot of mosques that preach radical islam.

 

 

 

A Sunday Times survey taken in UK shortly after the 9/11 attack "revealed that 40% of British Muslims believe Usama bin Laden was right to attack the United States. About the same proportion think that British Muslims have a right to fight alongside the Taliban. A radio station serving London's Pakistani community conducted a poll which 98% of London Muslims under 45 said they would not fight for Britain, while 48% said they would fight for bin Laden.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_extremism

[Ginger_Warrior]

Also it's funny, how everyone, Atheists and all are ok with pretty much every religion except Christianity. lol.

 

I'm not an Atheist. If I was to be specific, I'm Agnostic, leaning more towards Humanism. I've never stated any problem with Christianity, just certain Christians who seem to believe either "It's my religion", or "It's in the Bible" are valid justifications in an argument. That criticism also applies to Muslims, Jews and every other religious group. Given, that's thankfully only a minority and the vast majority of religious people have the ability the ability to see beyond whatever their religious book tells them.

 

 

 

There are many top imams who preach extremist islam. That would lead me to believe it is a substantial number of muslims who buy into extremism. And the I forget the whole story but before 9/11 some Saudi imam told Bin Laden the exact number of people he could kill. It was like 3 million innocent people and 1 million children.

 

Oh please. One Imam told Bin Laden that? That's like saying Obama's old pastor is mainstream Christianity. Totally ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

 

There are not many churches like trinity church. That is one of the few churches in the country that preaches black liberation theology. Not even many black churches preach that. There are an awful lot of mosques that preach radical islam.

 

Can we draw the line between radical and aggressive? 40% of Muslims in the immediate aftermath and the language following 9/11 hardly equates to 40% of Muslims being potential ticking time bombs, as is the disgusting accusation I've heard from some elements of the British media.

 

 

 

Frankly, what's telling is each and every person with criticism of the Islamic Faith here has had to use tiny samples from the Qur'an or own research to argue here, instead of personal experience. I've pretty much spent my whole life around Muslims, and I don't mean one or two, I mean literally going to two schools where over half the students were Muslims. In that whole time, there has only been one person who has lectured me on not following Islam, and he was a complete psychopathic nutjob anyway - Islamic extremism just gave him something vague to identify with. Most of his fellow Muslims distanced themselves away from him.

 

 

 

Apart from that, I've never had a problem. Indeed, some of the nicest people I've ever met were Muslims. I'm not suggesting Muslims are generally nicer than other people, but this notion that they're all secretly violent brainwashed zombies is just ludicrous. Maybe that's because I've actually been raised in an environment where I've had to get to know them and accept them as my colleagues and in many cases, friends.

 

 

 

So yes, it annoys me when people talk about Islam like this when it's quite apparent they've never had any real experience with Muslims.

[Bobbington]

Seems a pretty good idea to me....

 

 

 

Personally I am anti organised religion, but have respect for the beliefs of others no matter what they are. I expect that they will (in any forsable future) be a large quantity of religious people, and efforts to get other cultures to be aware of them is a good thing. A lack of cultural understanding leeds to comments as seen on this thread.

 

 

 

To be perfectly honest although I am quite open I will admit to often getting customs of Hinduism and Islam confused, and have made some embarrassing assumption errors over my years.

 

 

 

the adverts seem to be pretty invasive and so I have no issue with them.

 

 

 

 

 

But some religious adverts so annoy every bone of my body...... and they is invasive and demanding adverts.... It is usual with Christianity in this country (England)..... I don't enjoy being told I am going to burn in hell for not belonging to their branch of a religion, and I don't really care if judgement day is coming. As long as religion is not forced onto people I have no issue with how methods are taught.