Slayer Sucks

[zalitz_miner]

Faster tasks= more tasks, more kills, more xp per hour. Even only making it 2x as fast as melee makes it 28k ranged 11.2k attack, and 3.6k hp and 14k slayer. (using the rates in example above)

 

 

 

28+11.2+3.6+14= 56.8

 

28+9.2+7= 44.2

[ydrasil]

Drop the argument that the value of XP cannot be determined. For that matter, the value of GP cannot be determined so any numbers related to profit should be ignored. After all, a level 3 thinks 1k is worth a lot more then a 138, right? :roll:

 

So according to you, I should drop a valid argument just because it opposes what you believe? The value of experience cannot be calculated and adding in to be taken as fact for the entire population of runescape. Gp is the base line from which all comparisons are made. However it is true that people might value it differently. How you value experience is with respect to gp. How you value gp will be wiith respect to.... what? Gp is the basis from which all comparisons are made in this case.

 

 

 

Also, the value of money can be considered relative. A level 3's equipment costs alot less than that a 138 might use. This means that the 1k will supply a greater percentage of the required money to buy armour when compared to a 138. However this is flawed slightly, as combat level isn't what you should be referring to. It should simply be considered a new player compared to an experienced player.

 

 

 

Because the entire thread HAS to use the assumption that values are based on time to obtain. Otherwise any other rate is meaningless; if one person values oak planks above all else, are armored zombies statistically superior to every other form of training? Of course not, the only common variable is time.

 

That has to be one of the most pointless things you have said thus far. Nothing happens instantly (as in no time - 0 time), which means time is a variable for everything in existence. So it isn't an assumption, it is a fact. Your idea of value is still flawed. You are comparing an item to experience gained (apples and oranges). If it was a comparison of experience to experience, then that argument could apply. Meaning if someone valued Construction experience to be very high and combat experience to be very little or worthless to them, then yes, training Construction can be considered superior to Armoured Zombies. That isn't what we are discussing though and you have purposely ignored the basis of my post.

 

 

 

I showed that you are being inefficient when it comes to training Slayer, that is all. It is quite simple. For you personally, it is more efficient to use a cannon than to not use one. Since you do not use one, you are being as efficient as you can be.

 

 

 

You specifically said (and your calculations showed) that a cannon was inefficient at 400k\h

 

That you need to resort to making up facts should show how desperate you are to be right. I have never said (specifically or otherwise) that a cannon is inefficient at 400k profit per hour. My calculations showed a cannon being worth using, not the opposite.

 

 

 

Because this isn't personal rates, this is what is generally obtained. Testing must indicate such.

 

To be honest, saying it is a general rate is just a way for you to dismiss anything higher as invalid. Can you tell be without a doubt, 100% true, what is "generally obtained"? No you cannot. You cannot even make any sort of accurate estimate to what is "generally obtained". Since that is the case, the logical choice is to compare similar players rates for the different methods. Hell, what you say here even contradicts your other posts (once again). Are you going to try and say that 103k melee experience is what is "generally obtained"? As well as the profit rate of 190k? You have never been consistent with this throughout the thread.

 

 

 

The most logical choice is to compare maximum rates, or at the very least people with same stats. That way it can be seen as a ratio and makes levels irrelevant as it scales up/down accordingly. So that technically means my rates should not be getting compared to the 103k rate for Armoured Zombies that you get, because my rate is too low. This only goes to show that I have lower stats and yet get superior rates, making Slayer jump even furthur in front than what it already is.

 

 

 

Gee, it might be a good idea to read through my posts then. It's not as I was ignoring combat training, now was I? :roll:

 

Oh i'm sorry, I was under the impression that you had said the key words you used were "combat training", which were nowhere to be found. If you looked back at the posts (like you so often suggest but you never seem to follow your own advice) you'll notice this specific quote traces back to how you determine what is the best method. To which I responded and showed that your definition was incorrect, and I showed how I came to that conclusion. You that responded by trying to say I had apparently missed the key words "combat training", yet simply looking back at your posts proves that was an excuse (very bad one also). I mean come on, you made a mistake when you typed it and changed the meaning (referring to original respone to determine best method), or you actually meant it, and that definition cannot be correct as it is impossible to do so. That is all there was to it.

 

 

 

And what does that have to do with your testing rates? I talk to friends when I'm not testing; how is that affecting my testing rates?

 

That was point #-o . I was saying there is no difference for me when between casual slaying and testing it. I talk to friends during both cases and pay the same amount of attention in both cases. The only difference is that there is a stopwatch counting in one and not the other..... which was my point from the beginning.

 

 

 

OK, I'll begin assembling them. I'll re-create my excel spreadsheet with personal numbers. Just understand that I will not be including methods; they are in the original posts, and you can get find them along with calculations if you want to argue them.

 

As long as you finally show me your rates that would be fine.

 

 

 

Do you see where he posted rates differing with mine? Real rates, not "lolz cannon is faster ur nub lulz". Please point them out if you did, cause otherwise he doesn't have a single rate of his own.

 

Do you see where he posted "lolz cannon is faster ur nub lulz"? Or anything resembling that type of immaturity that would be present in that sort of thoughtless response? The quote you responded to wasn't even referring to Morningrise333's post anyway. It was showing a direct contradiction in your posts.

 

 

 

I wasn't aware you could train melee with chinchompas, and slayer XP is what we're discussing. I believe you tested incorrectly or are simply lying, and I'm sure you think the same of me. Hence the debate.

 

Oh i'm sorry, I should have said combat rates instead of melee rates when referring to chinchompas. Wait... what's this? "fastest combat experience per hour is using Chinchompas at Ape Atoll" Wow, turns out I never said melee experience! I had said 'combat' experience all along..... so err, what was your point again? I was doing nothing but pointing out that the fastest combat experience in game was by use chinchompas in Ape Atoll dungeon (unless there is a method of getting over about 430k combat experience in the game that I have forgotten/didn't know about). We weren't discussing Slayer experience either. I also stated that Slayer resulted in more combat experience per hour than Armoured Zombies and also got about 31k Slayer experience.

 

 

 

Wow, this is new. After about 2 and a half months since I posted these rates you only now say you think they are incorrect or that I am lieing. This is just so funny for so many reasons. Not once have you ever mentioned anything wrong with my rates earlier. I even found the opposite of you saying they are incorrect in a few posts:

 

Looks fairly good, I can make a similar thing. Your profit is being thrown off by tasks like demons\spirit mages\mithril dragons, though.

 

as only XP can be accurately determined in a few tasks.

 

By "details" on your numbers, I mean:

 

 

 

What are you using for timing on banking\getting a new task? Is this standardized, or are you varying it for every task?

 

What are you doing about rare drops? Are they being ignored in the profit calculations, then added back in using the much more reliable drop rates of other slayers?

 

 

 

Those are my two main points at the moment, I'll raise more minor ones once those are answered.

 

The last quote is more indirect. If you actually believed them to be incorrect or that I was lying, one would think that be a "main point" wouldn't you think?

 

 

 

So no, you have never said or inferred that you believed the were tested incorrectly or that I am lying. You only bring this up now as you know they are correct but you simply want to be right. This also brings me back to a point I mentioned a while ago. This thread is not continuing for the purpose of the thread anymore. Only to satisfy your want of a debate. This is evidenced where you (only recently) said this thread was intended as a reverse arugment, yet your posts from earlier in the thread indicate otherwise (not to mention the idea of a reverse argument is pretty stupid in the first place). So saying that is what you intended all along is absolute bs. If you really wanted it to be a reverse argument to show Slayer is better, then why make up so many bs excuses?

 

 

 

"Omg omg omg... that post shows Slayer is better... what to do, what to do, what to do... I know! I'll ignore it for now."

 

 

 

About two and a half months later.

 

 

 

"Omg omg omg... he brought up the table that showed Slayer is better again...what to do, what to do, what to do... I know! I'll ignore the experience rates for now and make up lame reasons why the profit rate is off. I'll then eventually say he is lying! Or maybe that it was an incorrect test! Or maybe even both!!! Yea that is sure to work."

 

 

 

Yes I understand that is a bit immature, but it gets my point across. if you really wanted a reverse argument to show Slayer is better, then why do you dismiss all evidence that points to Slayer being better? You know... where you just said my rates are lies or incorrect. Not to mention my rates given are lower than what is possible, as evidenced by Zarfot's guide. His guide alone shows Slayer is superior, but that seems irrelevant to you.

 

 

 

5 minute test isn't going to be enough to overturn around 80 hours of cannon vs. melee, so I guess you'd better rethink that route. Never seen numbers from any other slayer, so you'll have to ask them to send me details of rates with and without, as well as specifics as to costs (prices change) and experience gained per skill plus statics like banking time.

 

You've performed 80 hours of testing with a cannon? That's the first i've ever heard you mention that. Considering you have never given your results for such a test, and one would think that you might use those results back when the cannon was being discussed.

 

 

 

Cannoning obviously produces faster kills seeing as you're hitting multiple enemies every second. However, you get no hp experience, a lot less melee exp since you'll be spending time picking up drops and reloading the cannon and the range exp is halved compared to other ranging weapons.

 

No-one is denying that per damage, you get less experience from a cannon compared to melee. The melee experience overall does not drop that much and you gain alot of Range experience and faster experience in other skills as a result. Reloading a cannon takes no time, it can be done in between hits. Picking up drops does not use up alot of time either.

 

 

 

Now if I've been reading this all correctly, then what he is saying is that the 2 range exp you get for each damage done, the small amount of combat exp and no hp exp is not worth using a cannon since you're missing out on 4 exp and 1.33 exp you get each damage.

 

 

 

So basically, the cannon is taking most of your melee and hp exp away and in return, giving you crappy range exp.

 

 

 

Say for example you get a task of 100 dagannoth. If you melee the entire task you would get around 28k attack exp and about 9.2k hp exp. Now say you brought a cannon, at the end of the task you've obtained 14k ranged exp, 5.6k attack exp and about 1.8k hp exp. Besides missing out on exp, you also lose money on cballs.

 

You aren't fully considering the factor of time. You are basing this on per kills rather than per time frame. For any given time frame, the amount of experience you are getting per hour is much higher than what is gotten without a cannon. For example at Dagannoths, I am still getting 70.8k melee experience per hour. Yes if there wasn't a cannon I would get more melee experience (how much exactly, I do not know). However while I lose some melee experience, I have gained 119.2k Range xp/h, increased Slayer xp/h, increased Summoning xp/h and overall higher xp/h.

 

 

 

Assuming for now that had you not used a cannon that you would get 100k melee xp/h, an increase of about 30k. Assume compfreak847 actually does value melee experience 3 times more valuable than Range. Also assume that an other increased rates of experience aren't there at the moment. On that basis alone a cannon is worth more experience. As 3 times more valuable experience for melee is an effective 90k less for melee per hour, But you get 119.2k Range instead. Add in all the other additional experience and it only gets better.

 

 

 

So yes, you get faster slayer exp but you're missing out on a ton of combat exp and losing money on most tasks.

 

 

 

Slayer is not a good way to train combat, cannoning slayer is not an efficient way to train combat even if you are getting slayer exp.

 

That is only true if you consider what was posted in the first post to be true. He has never updated that post to account for new information presented so that portion of the post has never changed for the life of this thread. In my experience however, I get more combat experience per hour compared to Armoured Zombies + the Slayer experience, for a slight reduction in profit which is worth it to me. So overall, Slayer is a good way to train combat and for those who train it efficiently it is the best way overall to train combat.

 

 

 

Also I can't believe I had overlooked this before, but responding to Italian5kamikaze made me think of it. In all previous calculations for determining if a cannon is efficient, the increased rate of experience for Summoning was never taken into account. This only adds to it making it even more efficient than it already way.

[toadalmighty]

I average 80k combat exp and hour with slayer, unless i get a bad run of tasks, and its 100k+ an hour if i use piety, which breaks even with the cash from drops. I get alot of charm drops, not the best but ALOT more than afk training methods, and of course you get the enjoyment of slayer the clue scrolls to do and the excitement when you get a rare drop or are able to kill something new.

 

 

 

I always trained with slayer because it was faster and it still is one of the fastest methods in my opnion, i enjoyed the drops and made ALOT more money then you would think, of course it is hard to add it up so il try summorise, ive had 3 left halfs, numerous mauls and mystical things, 100's of ranarr/snarpdragon herbs and seeds, 10+ whips, ive lost count of my dragon boots but id estimate 100+, robin hood from clue, all the runes ive gotten from points, plus all the pvp potential ive been able to gain, the mils of combat exp, The numerous friends ive made, the excitement of rare drops, the sense of achievment of having to work sold for a whole week to get ONE level, and the pride you get when you can kill everything the game has to offer.

 

 

 

Second to NONE in my HONEST opinion

[howbadisbad]

You can't max out your skills without training slayer. :

[compfreak847]

 

So according to you, I should drop a valid argument just because it opposes what you believe? The value of experience cannot be calculated and adding in to be taken as fact for the entire population of runescape. Gp is the base line from which all comparisons are made. However it is true that people might value it differently. How you value experience is with respect to gp. How you value gp will be wiith respect to.... what? Gp is the basis from which all comparisons are made in this case.

 

 

 

Also, the value of money can be considered relative. A level 3's equipment costs alot less than that a 138 might use. This means that the 1k will supply a greater percentage of the required money to buy armour when compared to a 138. However this is flawed slightly, as combat level isn't what you should be referring to. It should simply be considered a new player compared to an experienced player.

 

Then why are you posting on this thread if you believe that experience and profit rates only apply to an individual and cannot be valued?

 

 

 

[qutoe]

 

That has to be one of the most pointless things you have said thus far. Nothing happens instantly (as in no time - 0 time), which means time is a variable for everything in existence. So it isn't an assumption, it is a fact. Your idea of value is still flawed. You are comparing an item to experience gained (apples and oranges). If it was a comparison of experience to experience, then that argument could apply. Meaning if someone valued Construction experience to be very high and combat experience to be very little or worthless to them, then yes, training Construction can be considered superior to Armoured Zombies. That isn't what we are discussing though and you have purposely ignored the basis of my post.

 

 

 

I showed that you are being inefficient when it comes to training Slayer, that is all. It is quite simple. For you personally, it is more efficient to use a cannon than to not use one. Since you do not use one, you are being as efficient as you can be.

 

 

See above. That is the ONLY way to quantitatively compare results. I used numbers to prove that - if I include a cannon in calculations, the overall efficiency of slayer goes down.

 

 

 

 

Oh i'm sorry, I was under the impression that you had said the key words you used were "combat training", which were nowhere to be found. If you looked back at the posts (like you so often suggest but you never seem to follow your own advice) you'll notice this specific quote traces back to how you determine what is the best method. To which I responded and showed that your definition was incorrect, and I showed how I came to that conclusion. You that responded by trying to say I had apparently missed the key words "combat training", yet simply looking back at your posts proves that was an excuse (very bad one also). I mean come on, you made a mistake when you typed it and changed the meaning (referring to original respone to determine best method), or you actually meant it, and that definition cannot be correct as it is impossible to do so. That is all there was to it.

 

Gee, that's odd. Perhaps you should look into my original post to see where I specifically stated "saying slayer is the best way to train combat is a horribly wrong statement".

 

 

 

 

As long as you finally show me your rates that would be fine.

 

OK, but don't come back asking for methods after I send them. You'll get a list of rates, which I'm currently looking through the thread for. It may take a couple more days, I've been very busy in RL (hence the slow responses) and it takes time to verify what my final rates were.

 

 

 

 

Do you see where he posted "lolz cannon is faster ur nub lulz"? Or anything resembling that type of immaturity that would be present in that sort of thoughtless response? The quote you responded to wasn't even referring to Morningrise333's post anyway. It was showing a direct contradiction in your posts.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of sarcasm, where one can refer to another post under the generic title of "people who do X"

 

 

 

 

Oh i'm sorry, I should have said combat rates instead of melee rates when referring to chinchompas. Wait... what's this? "fastest combat experience per hour is using Chinchompas at Ape Atoll" Wow, turns out I never said melee experience! I had said 'combat' experience all along..... so err, what was your point again? I was doing nothing but pointing out that the fastest combat experience in game was by use chinchompas in Ape Atoll dungeon (unless there is a method of getting over about 430k combat experience in the game that I have forgotten/didn't know about). We weren't discussing Slayer experience either. I also stated that Slayer resulted in more combat experience per hour than Armoured Zombies and also got about 31k Slayer experience.

 

Gee, you still haven't detailed how you plan to train melee with chinchompas; after all, I do recall melee as being listed as a part of overall combat training.

 

 

 

Wow, this is new. After about 2 and a half months since I posted these rates you only now say you think they are incorrect or that I am lieing. This is just so funny for so many reasons. Not once have you ever mentioned anything wrong with my rates earlier. I even found the opposite of you saying they are incorrect in a few posts:

 

See quite a few posts where I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you were telling the truth but were using the wrong methods or incorrect testing methodology to obtain them. Now I'm not so sure.

 

 

 

 

You've performed 80 hours of testing with a cannon? That's the first i've ever heard you mention that. Considering you have never given your results for such a test, and one would think that you might use those results back when the cannon was being discussed.

 

I did, apparently you missed that part. I didn't make up random rates, unlike certain other people, but I tried to back them up with others rates as well.

 

 

 

 

No-one is denying that per damage, you get less experience from a cannon compared to melee. The melee experience overall does not drop that much and you gain alot of Range experience and faster experience in other skills as a result. Reloading a cannon takes no time, it can be done in between hits. Picking up drops does not use up alot of time either.

 

See a few dozen pages back where I assign real numerical values, not made up generalizations.

 

 

 

 

You aren't fully considering the factor of time. You are basing this on per kills rather than per time frame. For any given time frame, the amount of experience you are getting per hour is much higher than what is gotten without a cannon. For example at Dagannoths, I am still getting 70.8k melee experience per hour. Yes if there wasn't a cannon I would get more melee experience (how much exactly, I do not know). However while I lose some melee experience, I have gained 119.2k Range xp/h, increased Slayer xp/h, increased Summoning xp/h and overall higher xp/h.

 

 

 

Assuming for now that had you not used a cannon that you would get 100k melee xp/h, an increase of about 30k. Assume compfreak847 actually does value melee experience 3 times more valuable than Range. Also assume that an other increased rates of experience aren't there at the moment. On that basis alone a cannon is worth more experience. As 3 times more valuable experience for melee is an effective 90k less for melee per hour, But you get 119.2k Range instead. Add in all the other additional experience and it only gets better.

 

XP per time is all that matters. Kills and tasks are irrelevant outside of the slayer dart profit which is calculated independently.

 

 

 

 

But you greatly increase Slayer experience, which is the main goal of Slayer.

 

But not the goal of this thread, which is combat training.

 

 

 

 

If you love the skill, why contradict your self with 'slayer sucks' as the title, as it is purely misleading. I have read your entire article, but that was about a year ago =P

 

 

 

Your title should be more like:

 

 

 

'Ok, Slayer is a really bad way to train combat in my opinion, but is a fun skill to do! - RANT'

 

Read my replies.

 

 

 

Your 80 hours is nothing compared to my 1,456 hours of testing. Prove me wrong. You can find my results in a post I made in Help & Advice a year ago, but I'm not going to find it for you because that would make things too easy.

 

A link to the thread would suffice. I'll be eagerly awaiting it.

 

 

Second to NONE in my HONEST opinion

 

But it's not opinion, and +10% is more efficient then piety (Plus, even piety doesn't boost your XP 20k per hour ;)

 

 

 

Faster tasks= more tasks, more kills, more xp per hour. Even only making it 2x as fast as melee makes it 28k ranged 11.2k attack, and 3.6k hp and 14k slayer. (using the rates in example above)

 

 

 

28+11.2+3.6+14= 56.8

 

28+9.2+7= 44.2

 

See my posts for more details; your using made up numbers and assumptions instead of real testing results.

 

 

 

You can't max out your skills without training slayer. :

 

Read my replies.

[howbadisbad]

You can't max out your skills without training slayer. :

 

Read my replies.

 

How the hell am I supposed to find them? -.-

[compfreak847]

You can't max out your skills without training slayer. :

 

Read my replies.

 

How the hell am I supposed to find them? -.-

 

Click on the various page numbers near the top and bottom of the page to move around in the thread :P

[ydrasil]

Then why are you posting on this thread if you believe that experience and profit rates only apply to an individual and cannot be valued?

 

Seriously, your replys have been getting worse and worse. You continually misunderstand what I am saying and come to illogical conclusions. As I have said over and over, to add in the value of experience would be incorrect as that value does not apply to everyone or even the majority, same reasoning with profit rates. What you are unable to comprehend is that the rate is essentially a ratio. For that amount of combat experience you get that much profit. The player can then determine for themself how to value that experience in comparison to another method. This is the point I have been making all along. To reiterate:

 

 

 

There is no universal value of experience. By suppling the rates obtained each individual player can use these rates and assign their own values and from that determine what method is worth more to utilise.

 

 

 

See above. That is the ONLY way to quantitatively compare results. I used numbers to prove that - if I include a cannon in calculations, the overall efficiency of slayer goes down.

 

However, since a cannon is efficient, it increases the overall efficiency of Slayer. The point I was making (look at the last paragraph of the response), i'll restate as you again seem unable to comprehend it. You have said you are an efficient Slayer, I showed you aren't. Simple as that.

 

 

 

Gee, that's odd. Perhaps you should look into my original post to see where I specifically stated "saying slayer is the best way to train combat is a horribly wrong statement".

 

Essentially all of your first is irrelevant as of now. It contains nothing but outdated information that has never been updated. That point asside, you are ignoring the point. This quote traces back to your definition of of how to determine the best method to use. Read back and you will see that this is the case. Your definition was:

 

Least overall time when all factors but time are equalized using rates from other 'best' methods separated for XP, profit, and other variables.

 

All I did in the response was show that this was impossible to do. I pointed out either you actually believed this defintion and it was wrong, or you made a mistake when you were trying to type it up. I can only come to the conclusion that you actually believe it to be true since you are trying to defend it so much. In which case that definition is wrong. You have done nothing to show it isn't.

 

 

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of sarcasm, where one can refer to another post under the generic title of "people who do X"

 

Right. So I show a direct contradiction in your posts and you do nothing to show otherwise. Just like you have done so throughout the thread.

 

 

 

Gee, you still haven't detailed how you plan to train melee with chinchompas; after all, I do recall melee as being listed as a part of overall combat training.

 

Are you seriously going to be this stupid? Do you honestly agree with what you just typed here? When I have ever said or inferred that you can train melee with chinchompas? You will not find a quote that says this because I have never said or inferred this.

 

 

 

Lets see what are the combat skills. There is Attack, Strength, Defence, Range, Magic, Hitpoints, Prayer and Summoning. Now lets see, going on what I actually said (you know... what was actually said.... not made up):

 

(fastest combat experience per hour is using Chinchompas at Ape Atoll)

 

Now lets see, what skills are trained by using chinchompas here. Well there is Range and Hitpoints. Now let us just look back to which ones are combat skills. Yep, these are combat skills. So yes, chinchompas are the fastest "combat" experience (just so there is no room for misunderstanding).

 

 

 

See quite a few posts where I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you were telling the truth but were using the wrong methods or incorrect testing methodology to obtain them. Now I'm not so sure.

 

What about every post where I have given you the benefit of the doubt that you had some form of intelligence. How about you show me where I am using a "wrong method". You have never mentioned this before. What sort of "incorrect testing methodology" are you sujesting I employed? The only that applies to testing is knowing the start and finish experience, and the time it took to gain that experience (which I got by using a stopwatch). So tell me that test is incorrect?

 

 

 

There is nothing wrong with it. You just can't face the facts that Slayer is better, so you have to resort to making up arguments to prove your point.

 

 

 

I did, apparently you missed that part. I didn't make up random rates, unlike certain other people, but I tried to back them up with others rates as well.

 

Nope. I can't miss what was nbever there to begin with. This is first time you have ever said you had performed 80 hours of testing with a cannon, which oddly enough absolutely no-one can find. So either tell me the post numbers where you show your rates for a cannon, or concede that actually made this up as well. Besides this is nothing out of the ordinary. You have made up rates throughout the thread. First post saying Zombie Monkies is only 40k loss per hour, you also say Slayer is only 50k per hour and that is what is generally obtained. Just like you saying Slayer profits at most 50k per hour, or 10k per hour with piety. All of those are made up.

 

 

 

See a few dozen pages back where I assign real numerical values, not made up generalizations.

 

Oh i'm sorry. Of course because I didn't post in this response that experience from a cannon is equal to twice the damage done. Or that experience from using melee is 4x damage to the melee skills and 1.3x the damage to Hitpoints. According to you, just because I didn't post these numbers in my responses, that makes my post a made up generalization? Of course you must be right.... seriously, you aren't that stupid are you?

 

 

 

Had you continued reading my post, I posted an example of where this applies (cannoning Dagannoths).

 

 

 

XP per time is all that matters. Kills and tasks are irrelevant outside of the slayer dart profit which is calculated independently.

 

So you ignore the main section of my post and bring up something I already know, you're a genious. You will average the exact same drops from a certain number of a NPC (a Slayer task) regardless of how it is completed. Meaning the only thing that changes is the time it was obtained in. Lets go back to using Dagannoths to show this. For my rate with a cannon I get 69.6k Slayer experience per hour and 49.2 Summoning experience per hour worth in charms. A ratio of 1.415:1. Using the above rate of 100k melee experience per hour with no cannon (it wouldn't really go up that much, but it proves my point), you would get 25k Slayer experience per hour. Meaning you would only get 17.7k Summoning experience using the same ratio. So because you don't use a cannon, you lose out on 31.5k Summoning experience per hour. That is what I said earlier.

 

 

 

A link to the thread would suffice. I'll be eagerly awaiting it.

 

You don't get sarcasm do you? What he said is an exact parallel to what you are saying, and in your response you proved our point. You would rather be given the information straight up, than look through the help & advice forum. Yet you would propose that only you are allowed to do this? As you refuse to post the results and say to find it buried within 74 pages of forum text (which I am 99.99% sure are not even there - no such thing as 100% sure).

 

 

 

But it's not opinion, and +10% is more efficient then piety (Plus, even piety doesn't boost your XP 20k per hour ;)

 

That is wrong. Piety is more efficient provided you can make enough profit per hour, so what toadalmighty said is relevant. Piety when used in certain places can boost your experience rate by alot. For example, at Skeletal Wyverns. On the basis that Qeltar was being efficient (even though he really isn't), compared to my rate I am getting a bit over twice as many kills per hour. It is a 35k experience increase.

[compfreak847]

 

Seriously, your replys have been getting worse and worse. You continually misunderstand what I am saying and come to illogical conclusions. As I have said over and over, to add in the value of experience would be incorrect as that value does not apply to everyone or even the majority, same reasoning with profit rates. What you are unable to comprehend is that the rate is essentially a ratio. For that amount of combat experience you get that much profit. The player can then determine for themself how to value that experience in comparison to another method. This is the point I have been making all along. To reiterate:

 

 

 

There is no universal value of experience. By suppling the rates obtained each individual player can use these rates and assign their own values and from that determine what method is worth more to utilise.

 

Why are you continuing to flame me instead of attempting to respond and understand my post? I'm well aware that individual players may vary, but the ONLY universal factor is time. Yes, some players will have more money then they will ever need from rares and cost\profit doesn't matter, but it's the only logical way to standardize it.

 

 

 

 

However, since a cannon is efficient, it increases the overall efficiency of Slayer. The point I was making (look at the last paragraph of the response), i'll restate as you again seem unable to comprehend it. You have said you are an efficient Slayer, I showed you aren't. Simple as that.

 

See my previous posts, where I prove cannon inefficient.

 

 

 

 

Right. So I show a direct contradiction in your posts and you do nothing to show otherwise. Just like you have done so throughout the thread

 

If you don't understand my posts, I suggest you ask for clarification instead of flaming.

 

 

 

 

Are you seriously going to be this stupid? Do you honestly agree with what you just typed here? When I have ever said or inferred that you can train melee with chinchompas? You will not find a quote that says this because I have never said or inferred this.

 

 

 

Lets see what are the combat skills. There is Attack, Strength, Defence, Range, Magic, Hitpoints, Prayer and Summoning. Now lets see, going on what I actually said (you know... what was actually said.... not made up):

 

 

 

Now lets see, what skills are trained by using chinchompas here. Well there is Range and Hitpoints. Now let us just look back to which ones are combat skills. Yep, these are combat skills. So yes, chinchompas are the fastest "combat" experience (just so there is no room for misunderstanding).

 

Gee, that's nice. Your training some of the combat skills. Now explain how you plan to train melee and magic at ape atoll?

 

 

 

 

What about every post where I have given you the benefit of the doubt that you had some form of intelligence. How about you show me where I am using a "wrong method". You have never mentioned this before. What sort of "incorrect testing methodology" are you sujesting I employed? The only that applies to testing is knowing the start and finish experience, and the time it took to gain that experience (which I got by using a stopwatch). So tell me that test is incorrect?

 

 

 

There is nothing wrong with it. You just can't face the facts that Slayer is better, so you have to resort to making up arguments to prove your point.

 

Please review the difference between "opinion" and "fact" before posting. You may think slayer is better, or even 'believe' it like other posters do, but unless you start posting some facts your opinion is irrelevant. And by facts I mean XP rates and calculations, not "well obviously cannon is faster".

 

 

 

 

Nope. I can't miss what was nbever there to begin with. This is first time you have ever said you had performed 80 hours of testing with a cannon, which oddly enough absolutely no-one can find. So either tell me the post numbers where you show your rates for a cannon, or concede that actually made this up as well. Besides this is nothing out of the ordinary. You have made up rates throughout the thread. First post saying Zombie Monkies is only 40k loss per hour, you also say Slayer is only 50k per hour and that is what is generally obtained. Just like you saying Slayer profits at most 50k per hour, or 10k per hour with piety. All of those are made up.

 

Again, you seem to have forgotten how we discussed cannon efficiency and other variables. Reading back through the thread might be a good idea.

 

 

 

 

Oh i'm sorry. Of course because I didn't post in this response that experience from a cannon is equal to twice the damage done. Or that experience from using melee is 4x damage to the melee skills and 1.3x the damage to Hitpoints. According to you, just because I didn't post these numbers in my responses, that makes my post a made up generalization? Of course you must be right.... seriously, you aren't that stupid are you?

 

No, it means you have no proof to back up what your posting, and no differing rates from my numbers to compare.

 

 

 

 

So you ignore the main section of my post and bring up something I already know, you're a genious. You will average the exact same drops from a certain number of a NPC (a Slayer task) regardless of how it is completed. Meaning the only thing that changes is the time it was obtained in. Lets go back to using Dagannoths to show this. For my rate with a cannon I get 69.6k Slayer experience per hour and 49.2 Summoning experience per hour worth in charms. A ratio of 1.415:1. Using the above rate of 100k melee experience per hour with no cannon (it wouldn't really go up that much, but it proves my point), you would get 25k Slayer experience per hour. Meaning you would only get 17.7k Summoning experience using the same ratio. So because you don't use a cannon, you lose out on 31.5k Summoning experience per hour. That is what I said earlier.

 

So you ignore the main section of my post and bring up something I already know? I'm well aware of summoning XP, and I'm awaiting your rates and calculations for slayer.

 

 

 

 

You don't get sarcasm do you? What he said is an exact parallel to what you are saying, and in your response you proved our point. You would rather be given the information straight up, than look through the help & advice forum. Yet you would propose that only you are allowed to do this? As you refuse to post the results and say to find it buried within 74 pages of forum text (which I am 99.99% sure are not even there - no such thing as 100% sure).

 

Oh, that was sarcasm? Golly gee, however could I have overlooked such a thing! Thanks for letting me know, I certainly wasn't aware of that! I mean, there's no possible way my post could be interpreted as sarcasm also, right?

 

 

 

[hide=]Yeah, that was sarcasm.

 

 

 

 

That is wrong. Piety is more efficient provided you can make enough profit per hour, so what toadalmighty said is relevant. Piety when used in certain places can boost your experience rate by alot. For example, at Skeletal Wyverns. On the basis that Qeltar was being efficient (even though he really isn't), compared to my rate I am getting a bit over twice as many kills per hour. It is a 35k experience increase.

 

At 23% att\str boost, piety has a maximum effect of 12% in constant combat. Math doesn't lie; your rates, however, might. Thankfully, I've already discussed piety back in this thread.

[Joegabe]

Slayer is not bad money at all, this is one level and about 5-6 days of slaying and doing the clues from the tasks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

let alone 1.2m att xp and about 1m hp xp.

[compfreak847]

Slayer is not bad money at all, this is one level and about 5-6 days of slaying and doing the clues from the tasks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

let alone 1.2m att xp and about 1m hp xp.

 

This is from one trip:

 

 

Avansies isn't bad money at all, let alone about 1.2m range XP.

[Joegabe]

Yea but at arma you are sitting in the same spot all the time killing the same monsters. At least with slayer you get different monsters

[compfreak847]

Yea but at arma you are sitting in the same spot all the time killing the same monsters. At least with slayer you get different monsters

 

Very true, variety is one of my favorite things about slayer :P

[ydrasil]

Why are you continuing to flame me instead of attempting to respond and understand my post? I'm well aware that individual players may vary, but the ONLY universal factor is time. Yes, some players will have more money then they will ever need from rares and cost\profit doesn't matter, but it's the only logical way to standardize it.

 

There was no flaming in that quote. Everything I said was based on observable facts in comparison to the rest of the thread. In general your replies are getting worse in that they are less thought out and you constantly misunderstanding and misinterpretting what I have posted. I personally do not see why you are saying that I don't understand your posts or that I do not respond them. I have responded to every single one and understood nearly all of it (I'd say all, but i'm sure I have made some errors at some point).

 

 

 

Also unless I am not reading this right, you have contradicted yourself once again. You state the only universal factor is time. You also agree that each player has a different value of experience (while there is some who would have the same value, the chances are minimal). So you essentially agree with everything I was just trying to convey and disagreed with your intial statement. This is because if you believe the only universal factor is time and value's differ across players, than that means it would be incorrect to add in a set value of experience to apply to everyone.

 

 

 

See my previous posts, where I prove cannon inefficient.

 

I have been with the thread the entire time. I have read every single post you have made (as ewll as everyone elses). I also know what I have posted. I know that you never proved a cannon inefficient, and I know that I calculated that is is more efficient. Those are all facts, anyone that looks back will see that this is true. Also back when the cannon's efficiency was being debated, how come you never posted your results for your supposed 80 hours of testing? One would think that would be the most logical time to bring them up, because if they showed a cannon was inefficient then of course you would want to show you are right. If the showed a cannon was efficient than that is good also as you have said you wanted a reverse argument. However that is not the case. I am pretty sure you just made up the fact that it was a reverse argument as every single post of yours throughout the thread indicates it wasn't.

 

 

 

If you don't understand my posts, I suggest you ask for clarification instead of flaming.

 

Oh right, because I was clearly flaming there. All I said was that you have contradicted yourself throughout the thread - an observable fact. Feel free to point out where I also did not understand your posts instead of purposely going off on a tangent to avoid the issue brought up.

 

 

 

Gee, that's nice. Your training some of the combat skills. Now explain how you plan to train melee and magic at ape atoll?

 

#-o :wall: :wall: :wall: You have got to be kidding me. When did I ever mention training melee or magic there? Have I ever inferred either? My quote was nothing more than saying using chinchompas there is the fastest combat experience. This is an undeniable fact (unless there is a way to get over 430k combat experience per hour in the game that I do not know about). Since no other method of training in the game exceeds that amount of combat experience gained, that means that this method is the fastest combat experience in the game. Why are you even arguing this? I bring up a small fact, in parenthesis, and you blow it out of proportion just so you can start another argument (which furthur adds to my point that this thread here is only so you can have an argument).

 

 

 

Please review the difference between "opinion" and "fact" before posting. You may think slayer is better, or even 'believe' it like other posters do, but unless you start posting some facts your opinion is irrelevant. And by facts I mean XP rates and calculations, not "well obviously cannon is faster".

 

That is really odd. That table I posted included rates of experience and profit for each task. As you say, those numbers are facts not opinions. So according to you, people can only "believe" or "think" Slayer is better if they have facts. Those facts have been supplied and show Slayer is better. However I shall now use your logic. I have provided facts/rates and done calculations to show they are correct. You have only just now claimed that they are false. You have not given any rates/calculations/evidence/proof that my rates are incorrect. That makes your claim an opinion. Since this opinion has no basis, your opinion in this matter is irrelevant.

 

 

 

Again, you seem to have forgotten how we discussed cannon efficiency and other variables. Reading back through the thread might be a good idea.

 

Refer to my response after the second quote I have of you.

 

 

 

No, it means you have no proof to back up what your posting, and no differing rates from my numbers to compare.

 

I have supplied rates, you have not. Since you have not supplied rates, your opinion is irrelevant. Wow this logic of yours is working good now.

 

 

 

So you ignore the main section of my post and bring up something I already know? I'm well aware of summoning XP, and I'm awaiting your rates and calculations for slayer.

 

Thats odd, I ignored it by responding to it you say?

 

 

 

You'll find my rates and calculations of Slayer earlier in the thread. I have posted a table of my rates many times throughout the thread, you have responded to it many times. So yes, you have my rates. Don't come up with some bs reasoning that I have apparently not posted them.

 

 

 

Oh, that was sarcasm? Golly gee, however could I have overlooked such a thing! Thanks for letting me know, I certainly wasn't aware of that! I mean, there's no possible way my post could be interpreted as sarcasm also, right?

 

 

 

[hide=]Yeah, that was sarcasm.

 

Go back and read your post to which I responded to. Then explain to be how the only possible way that your post can be interpretted is that it was sarcasm. Since you seem incapable of going back to read what was posted earlier in the thread (which is odd as you go against your advice where you tell others to go back and read), here is what I responded to:

 

A link to the thread would suffice. I'll be eagerly awaiting it.

 

Of course your right. It is so clear to me now. Of course it was sarcasm. I mean, there's no possible way that post could be interpretted to not be sarcasm, right?

 

 

 

It works both ways (mainly my way, as you are inferred it can only be interpretted as sarcasm, which is not the case).

 

 

 

At 23% att\str boost, piety has a maximum effect of 12% in constant combat. Math doesn't lie; your rates, however, might. Thankfully, I've already discussed piety back in this thread.

 

Show me the calculations and rates where you proved that true. Whoops you can't. Your opinion is irrelevant as that is made up and has nothing to back it up. Piety can have greater than a 12% effect.

 

 

 

Also, feel free to show me how my rates can lie. If you are talking about my rates as a whole (and I assume you would be), then explain to me why this thread on rsof "98-99-703-58532304" agrees with me and even has higher rates. My "testing methodology" is accurate and my methods are based on efficiency. So no, my rates are correct.

 

 

 

Unfortunately I was responding to this earlier and ran out of time. I was going to save what I had typed up but somehow I accidentally close the tab and lost it all :( . So I lost many of the great points I had brought up.

[compfreak847]

 

There was no flaming in that quote. Everything I said was based on observable facts in comparison to the rest of the thread. In general your replies are getting worse in that they are less thought out and you constantly misunderstanding and misinterpretting what I have posted. I personally do not see why you are saying that I don't understand your posts or that I do not respond them. I have responded to every single one and understood nearly all of it (I'd say all, but i'm sure I have made some errors at some point).

 

As have I, I attempt to correct when there is a misunderstanding, but pointless flaming has no place in a mature debate

 

 

 

Also unless I am not reading this right, you have contradicted yourself once again. You state the only universal factor is time. You also agree that each player has a different value of experience (while there is some who would have the same value, the chances are minimal). So you essentially agree with everything I was just trying to convey and disagreed with your intial statement. This is because if you believe the only universal factor is time and value's differ across players, than that means it would be incorrect to add in a set value of experience to apply to everyone.

 

No, because the total value is only an approximation of the best possible method for determining an individuals rate; without that, there could never be any rate comparison. My statements are in complete agreement, I've stated that several time.

 

 

 

 

I have been with the thread the entire time. I have read every single post you have made (as ewll as everyone elses). I also know what I have posted. I know that you never proved a cannon inefficient, and I know that I calculated that is is more efficient. Those are all facts, anyone that looks back will see that this is true. Also back when the cannon's efficiency was being debated, how come you never posted your results for your supposed 80 hours of testing? One would think that would be the most logical time to bring them up, because if they showed a cannon was inefficient then of course you would want to show you are right. If the showed a cannon was efficient than that is good also as you have said you wanted a reverse argument. However that is not the case. I am pretty sure you just made up the fact that it was a reverse argument as every single post of yours throughout the thread indicates it wasn't.

 

I have yet to see a SINGLE series of calculations by you indicating anything to the contrary. Until then, my calculations stand.

 

 

 

 

#-o :wall: :wall: :wall: You have got to be kidding me. When did I ever mention training melee or magic there? Have I ever inferred either? My quote was nothing more than saying using chinchompas there is the fastest combat experience. This is an undeniable fact (unless there is a way to get over 430k combat experience per hour in the game that I do not know about). Since no other method of training in the game exceeds that amount of combat experience gained, that means that this method is the fastest combat experience in the game. Why are you even arguing this? I bring up a small fact, in parenthesis, and you blow it out of proportion just so you can start another argument (which furthur adds to my point that this thread here is only so you can have an argument).

 

Oh, I'm sorry... I thought you said COMBAT training, not range training. Perhaps you should rephrase that to indicate you didn't plan on training combat.

 

 

 

 

That is really odd. That table I posted included rates of experience and profit for each task. As you say, those numbers are facts not opinions. So according to you, people can only "believe" or "think" Slayer is better if they have facts. Those facts have been supplied and show Slayer is better. However I shall now use your logic. I have provided facts/rates and done calculations to show they are correct. You have only just now claimed that they are false. You have not given any rates/calculations/evidence/proof that my rates are incorrect. That makes your claim an opinion. Since this opinion has no basis, your opinion in this matter is irrelevant.

 

Go back and re read my replies, I'm really not sure why your trying to peruse this angle.

 

 

 

 

I have supplied rates, you have not. Since you have not supplied rates, your opinion is irrelevant. Wow this logic of yours is working good now.

 

It would really be a good idea to read my replies before posting.

 

 

 

 

Thats odd, I ignored it by responding to it you say?

 

 

 

You'll find my rates and calculations of Slayer earlier in the thread. I have posted a table of my rates many times throughout the thread, you have responded to it many times. So yes, you have my rates. Don't come up with some bs reasoning that I have apparently not posted them.

 

Could you point out the banking times rates, or the real numbers for +10% prayer and non-cannon on tasks where it was previous proven inefficient? I haven't seen any updates since then, either I overlooked them or your simply lying.

 

 

 

 

Of course your right. It is so clear to me now. Of course it was sarcasm. I mean, there's no possible way that post could be interpretted to not be sarcasm, right?

 

 

 

It works both ways (mainly my way, as you are inferred it can only be interpretted as sarcasm, which is not the case).

 

Most obvious interpretation wins, and trying to flame based on a misinterpretation isn't going to do you any favors.

 

 

 

 

Show me the calculations and rates where you proved that true. Whoops you can't. Your opinion is irrelevant as that is made up and has nothing to back it up. Piety can have greater than a 12% effect.

 

Gee, that's odd. Perhaps you should re-read my post, I provided proof there.

 

 

 

 

Also, feel free to show me how my rates can lie. If you are talking about my rates as a whole (and I assume you would be), then explain to me why this thread on rsof "98-99-703-58532304" agrees with me and even has higher rates. My "testing methodology" is accurate and my methods are based on efficiency. So no, my rates are correct.

 

Oh, so now your incapable of lying? What changed this since the first 40 pages?

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately I was responding to this earlier and ran out of time. I was going to save what I had typed up but somehow I accidentally close the tab and lost it all :( . So I lost many of the great points I had brought up.

 

I do that too, the quickreply script I wrote means if I hit backspace I lose everything. Happened to me way too many times, I'm working on coding a workaround :wall: :wall:

[ydrasil]

As have I, I attempt to correct when there is a misunderstanding, but pointless flaming has no place in a mature debate

 

I was not flaming in either of the previous posts where you have accused me of it. I wasdoing nothing more than pointing out that you have misunderstood or misinterpretted my posts more and more in comparison to earlier in the thread.

 

 

 

No, because the total value is only an approximation of the best possible method for determining an individuals rate; without that, there could never be any rate comparison. My statements are in complete agreement, I've stated that several time.

 

But there is no universal value for experience, so how can it be added? Having been given the rate you get at Armoured Zombies of about 103k per hour and 190k profit, this can be broken down into 103k to melee, 34.3k to Hitpoints and about 9k to Summoning. For Slayer it is 195k experience per hour with 107k profit per hour. This is broken down into 75.5k to melee, 30.5k to Hitpoints, 26.7k to Range, 31.3k to Summoniong, and 30.8k to Slayer. If a player is given this information, they can determine themselves which method they would rather use. There is no need to add in a value of experience. It is up to the player to decide if they would rather get less combat experience per hour but nearly all of it being melee and Hitpoints (Summoning gain there is very small), or if they would rather get more combat experience per hour, but across all combat skills (except Prayer and Magic) whilst also gaining Slayer experience.

 

 

 

I have yet to see a SINGLE series of calculations by you indicating anything to the contrary. Until then, my calculations stand.

 

That's odd, I was thinking the same thing. You have not posted any calculations that prove a cannon is inefficient. Not to mention you are not being consistent. I know that a cannon is efficient at 400k per hour. However, you should know for sure that at say 600k per hour, a cannon would of course be efficient. Since you are the maximum rate for Armoured Zombies (99 stats) and using a lower money making rate. You have already established in other threads that Green Dragons at your stats is over 600k profit per hour.

 

 

 

As I have mentioned before, you need to be consistent. Either use 600k (minimum) as the profit rate, or lower the rate at Armoured Zombies to fit in with someone who only gets 400k an hour. To reiterate, the reason why it should be higher is simply by following your intial reasoning. You had said Aviansies was the lowest common denominator. However, we know that someone with 99 stats can get 600k+ profit an hour easily by using Green Dragons. So we know that their minimum profit has to be at least 600k.

 

 

 

Oh, I'm sorry... I thought you said COMBAT training, not range training. Perhaps you should rephrase that to indicate you didn't plan on training combat.

 

I did say combat training. Range and Hitpoints are COMBAT skills, and by training them, you are training combat. I know it is hard for you to understand and that it makes no sense, but that's just how it is....

 

 

 

[idiotic argument]Oh but wait. I thought you said COMBAT training, not melee training. Perhaps you should rephrase everything you have said about Armoured Zombies to indicate that you didn't plan on training combat. [/idiotic argument]

 

 

 

Go back and re read my replies, I'm really not sure why your trying to peruse this angle.

 

It would really be a good idea to read my replies before posting.

 

I have read all of your replies and I have responded to them. I was using your logic (so of course it must be right!). You have provided no facts with your claim that my rates are apparently wrong, with your logic that makes it an opinion with no proof meaning it is irrelevant. See how that works? You expect everyone to provide factual evidence (which I do) yet you never provide any yourself.

 

 

 

Could you point out the banking times rates, or the real numbers for +10% prayer and non-cannon on tasks where it was previous proven inefficient? I haven't seen any updates since then, either I overlooked them or your simply lying.

 

Didn't we establish that you would get my banking times after you give me your results? I still don't have your results, so you don't get my banking times yet. By real numbers for +10% prayer you mean? I always use +10% prayer as a minimum on every task. Since a cannon is efficient, removing it would be inefficient, so it stays. So yes, all of my rates have been supplied using efficient methods. You just refuse to accept the fact that Armoured Zombies is slower combat experience.

 

 

 

Gee, that's odd. Perhaps you should re-read my post, I provided proof there.

 

Ok lets re-read your post:

 

At 23% att\str boost, piety has a maximum effect of 12% in constant combat. Math doesn't lie; your rates, however, might. Thankfully, I've already discussed piety back in this thread.

 

Omg amazing proof! Those calculations are amazing! I bet they can all kinds of things! Like be invisible and pretend like they don't exist also!

 

 

 

All anyone has to do is use piety, if it provides more than a 12% boost, then you are wrong (can't be a maximum if you can get higher). Skeletal Wyverns is about the best possible task to use piety on and you will get a significant boost in experience.

 

 

 

Note: Do not say earlier in the thread. That just isn't going to cut it anymore as you use it as an excuse to not have to provide rates or calculations (as nearly all of the times what you say is in the thread isn't there).

 

 

 

Oh, so now your incapable of lying? What changed this since the first 40 pages?

 

Oh, did I say or infer that? Nor have I lied earlier inthe thread (not that I can remember anyway). If you are referring to the Slayer rate I said earlier in the thread, you would see that.... You know what, i'm not going to bother explaining it. Go back and read my reply, I even posted it again not that long ago. It will show that I was never lying about that rate.

 

 

 

I also noticed you ignored the thread I directed you to on the rsof. If you actually wanted proof that Slayer was better, than that thread is all that is needed. You posts indicate that you had read that thread before making this one. That means you already knew and know Slayer is better, and you onyl did this for the argu...deba... whinging involved.

[compfreak847]

 

I was not flaming in either of the previous posts where you have accused me of it. I wasdoing nothing more than pointing out that you have misunderstood or misinterpretted my posts more and more in comparison to earlier in the thread.

 

I was referring to your posts in general, not those ones in particular :)

 

 

 

 

But there is no universal value for experience, so how can it be added? Having been given the rate you get at Armoured Zombies of about 103k per hour and 190k profit, this can be broken down into 103k to melee, 34.3k to Hitpoints and about 9k to Summoning. For Slayer it is 195k experience per hour with 107k profit per hour. This is broken down into 75.5k to melee, 30.5k to Hitpoints, 26.7k to Range, 31.3k to Summoniong, and 30.8k to Slayer. If a player is given this information, they can determine themselves which method they would rather use. There is no need to add in a value of experience. It is up to the player to decide if they would rather get less combat experience per hour but nearly all of it being melee and Hitpoints (Summoning gain there is very small), or if they would rather get more combat experience per hour, but across all combat skills (except Prayer and Magic) whilst also gaining Slayer experience.

 

Universal experience can be calculated using time taken to obtain via the most efficient; it's not always accurate, but it's simply the only way to allow for debate without referring to specific persons.

 

 

 

 

That's odd, I was thinking the same thing. You have not posted any calculations that prove a cannon is inefficient. Not to mention you are not being consistent. I know that a cannon is efficient at 400k per hour. However, you should know for sure that at say 600k per hour, a cannon would of course be efficient. Since you are the maximum rate for Armoured Zombies (99 stats) and using a lower money making rate. You have already established in other threads that Green Dragons at your stats is over 600k profit per hour.

 

 

 

As I have mentioned before, you need to be consistent. Either use 600k (minimum) as the profit rate, or lower the rate at Armoured Zombies to fit in with someone who only gets 400k an hour. To reiterate, the reason why it should be higher is simply by following your intial reasoning. You had said Aviansies was the lowest common denominator. However, we know that someone with 99 stats can get 600k+ profit an hour easily by using Green Dragons. So we know that their minimum profit has to be at least 600k.

 

Again, 600k is a rate that I have seen few others obtain. I've stuck by 400k throughout this thread, and intend to continue to do so. Don't bother telling me I'm simply using it to make slayer look worse; I've stuck with that rate ever since I was comparing a money-lost method (Monkies) to money-profit (Slayer) where the higher the income the worse slayer looked.

 

 

 

 

I did say combat training. Range and Hitpoints are COMBAT skills, and by training them, you are training combat. I know it is hard for you to understand and that it makes no sense, but that's just how it is....

 

 

 

[idiotic argument]Oh but wait. I thought you said COMBAT training, not melee training. Perhaps you should rephrase everything you have said about Armoured Zombies to indicate that you didn't plan on training combat. [/idiotic argument]

 

Stop pretending you don't know what I'm trying to say. I'll rephrase it: Training range does not count as combat training without factoring in every other type of combat.

 

 

 

 

I have read all of your replies and I have responded to them. I was using your logic (so of course it must be right!). You have provided no facts with your claim that my rates are apparently wrong, with your logic that makes it an opinion with no proof meaning it is irrelevant. See how that works? You expect everyone to provide factual evidence (which I do) yet you never provide any yourself.

 

I need no more facts; I have already presented mine long ago in this thread, and see no need to repost them for your convenience. I do, however, see your point about me needing to PM you rates - I'll have those shortly, I'm currently verifying rates for some of the monsters that we never agreed upon to ensure my results are as accurate as possible.

 

 

 

 

Didn't we establish that you would get my banking times after you give me your results? I still don't have your results, so you don't get my banking times yet. By real numbers for +10% prayer you mean? I always use +10% prayer as a minimum on every task. Since a cannon is efficient, removing it would be inefficient, so it stays. So yes, all of my rates have been supplied using efficient methods. You just refuse to accept the fact that Armoured Zombies is slower combat experience.

 

See above. And no, I would love to see Armored Zombies proven worse - but I'm certainly not going to take your word for it in a "your rates vs. mine" argument.

 

 

 

 

All anyone has to do is use piety, if it provides more than a 12% boost, then you are wrong (can't be a maximum if you can get higher). Skeletal Wyverns is about the best possible task to use piety on and you will get a significant boost in experience.

 

Except your going to have to do significant, VERY extensive testing at multiple monsters before making a blanket statement. Since I have seen no evidence of those, I'm sticking to my 12% as a very rough rate.

 

 

 

 

Note: Do not say earlier in the thread. That just isn't going to cut it anymore as you use it as an excuse to not have to provide rates or calculations (as nearly all of the times what you say is in the thread isn't there).

 

 

Wrong place to post this, you just quoted where I was referring to :-s

 

 

 

 

Oh, did I say or infer that? Nor have I lied earlier inthe thread (not that I can remember anyway). If you are referring to the Slayer rate I said earlier in the thread, you would see that.... You know what, i'm not going to bother explaining it. Go back and read my reply, I even posted it again not that long ago. It will show that I was never lying about that rate.

 

I'm referring to your rates posted.

 

 

 

 

I also noticed you ignored the thread I directed you to on the rsof. If you actually wanted proof that Slayer was better, than that thread is all that is needed. You posts indicate that you had read that thread before making this one. That means you already knew and know Slayer is better, and you onyl did this for the argu...deba... whinging involved.

 

The second to last word is supposed to be whining, right? I think it's fairly obvious, but last time I thought that a flame war resulted.

 

 

 

In response: What? I have read that thread many times, we discussed it quite a while ago. I could point to a thread or response claiming to have gotten worse rates then me, but without detailed information on testing methodology, methods, and equipment it's not oging to do a thing to support or injure my argument.

[JacTise69]

Hmmm...Can't both of you just post an excel sheet of your calculations and exp rates along with your methods that you used for each task (or for the rates of monsters not on a slayer task just your method for what you trained on). Then both of you can go test each others methods and compare your results with another posting of excel sheets. Then all you have to do is move that information to the end of the first post on this thread and this whole issue will be settled.

[Lord_Firer]

Hmmm...Can't both of you just post an excel sheet of your calculations and exp rates along with your methods that you used for each task (or for the rates of monsters not on a slayer task just your method for what you trained on). Then both of you can go test each others methods and compare your results with another posting of excel sheets. Then all you have to do is move that information to the end of the first post on this thread and this whole issue will be settled.

 

 

 

Genius!

 

 

 

+1

[compfreak847]

Hmmm...Can't both of you just post an excel sheet of your calculations and exp rates along with your methods that you used for each task (or for the rates of monsters not on a slayer task just your method for what you trained on). Then both of you can go test each others methods and compare your results with another posting of excel sheets. Then all you have to do is move that information to the end of the first post on this thread and this whole issue will be settled.

 

 

 

Genius!

 

 

 

+1

 

*sigh* Read the replies

 

 

 

Last time we tried that, a mod had to come with a rather large fire extinguisher to take care of the epic flame war it spawned. I'm PMing rates to those who need them, but I'm not posting them publicly - people who don't have a clue what they are talking about will mindlessly flame methods without understanding the logic behind them, something that is gained if you have to read through all the replies to obtain the rates.

[Lord_Firer]

Can't you see that no one in their right mind would/could/should ever go through 75 pages of:

 

 

 

• 
   
  [*:28sod21d]Statistics
   
  [*:28sod21d]Logical explanations
   
  [*:28sod21d]Flame wars and
   
  [*:28sod21d]Mindless gibberish

 

 

 

How could you expect anyone to do that? I doubt you would ever do it if it was not your topic and you had arrived at the 60th page of posting.

[Obtaurian]

I'm still waiting for Compfreak to review my 1,000+ hours of cannon testing. Also, I should add that I've done at least 10,000 hours of Slayer over the span of 10 different accounts (all of which have 99 and beyond.) I will not give you the names of the accounts or show you my results, as that would be far too easy. It's all there in the high scores, and my results have been posted once or twice in Help & Advice in the past year. I expect you to dig through and find them. Until then, good luck proving me wrong.

 

 

 

Okay, okay. I'll give you two hints. All 10 of my accounts are in the top 500 Slayers and my results can be found between pages 40 and 70 in the H&A forum. Good luck.

[compfreak847]

I'm still waiting for Compfreak to review my 1,000+ hours of cannon testing. Also, I should add that I've done at least 10,000 hours of Slayer over the span of 10 different accounts (all of which have 99 and beyond.) I will not give you the names of the accounts or show you my results, as that would be far too easy. It's all there in the high scores, and my results have been posted once or twice in Help & Advice in the past year. I expect you to dig through and find them. Until then, good luck proving me wrong.

 

 

 

Okay, okay. I'll give you two hints. All 10 of my accounts are in the top 500 Slayers and my results can be found between pages 40 and 70 in the H&A forum. Good luck.

 

Like I said, all I need is a link to the thread. Simple enough.

 

 

 

Can't you see that no one in their right mind would/could/should ever go through 75 pages of:

 

 

 

• 
   
  [*:3kga2191]Statistics
   
  [*:3kga2191]Logical explanations
   
  [*:3kga2191]Flame wars and
   
  [*:3kga2191]Mindless gibberish

 

 

 

How could you expect anyone to do that? I doubt you would ever do it if it was not your topic and you had arrived at the 60th page of posting.

 

I did it. Why should I bother responding to them if they can't bother reading my responses?

[Obtaurian]

I'm still waiting for Compfreak to review my 1,000+ hours of cannon testing. Also, I should add that I've done at least 10,000 hours of Slayer over the span of 10 different accounts (all of which have 99 and beyond.) I will not give you the names of the accounts or show you my results, as that would be far too easy. It's all there in the high scores, and my results have been posted once or twice in Help & Advice in the past year. I expect you to dig through and find them. Until then, good luck proving me wrong.

 

 

 

Okay, okay. I'll give you two hints. All 10 of my accounts are in the top 500 Slayers and my results can be found between pages 40 and 70 in the H&A forum. Good luck.

 

Like I said, all I need is a link to the thread. Simple enough.

 

 

 

I'm not giving you any shortcuts. The threads aren't as long as this one, so it should be about the same difficulty level. Let me know when you've found it. Until then, you can consider the case closed. Slayer is far better in every aspect based on my testing.

[compfreak847]

I'm still waiting for Compfreak to review my 1,000+ hours of cannon testing. Also, I should add that I've done at least 10,000 hours of Slayer over the span of 10 different accounts (all of which have 99 and beyond.) I will not give you the names of the accounts or show you my results, as that would be far too easy. It's all there in the high scores, and my results have been posted once or twice in Help & Advice in the past year. I expect you to dig through and find them. Until then, good luck proving me wrong.

 

 

 

Okay, okay. I'll give you two hints. All 10 of my accounts are in the top 500 Slayers and my results can be found between pages 40 and 70 in the H&A forum. Good luck.

 

Like I said, all I need is a link to the thread. Simple enough.

 

 

 

I'm not giving you any shortcuts. The threads aren't as long as this one, so it should be about the same difficulty level. Let me know when you've found it. Until then, you can consider the case closed. Slayer is far better in every aspect based on my testing.

 

This isn't based on difficulty level, it's based on links to relevant material - there isn't a single part of the area I linked too that DOESN'T apply, whereas I'm fairly confident that the are you referred me to contains sections other then your rates.