Slayer Sucks

[nicrune007]

 

I certainly wasn't aware you used protect from magic at specters; I find karils to be enough magic defence that a unicorn keeps me healed, and the savings in prayer potions makes up for the very minor boost a summon can provide.

 

 

 

 

I was extremely interested in this whole discussion until I read this. You seriously slay spectres with Karil's and a unicorn? Seriously? There is a very good reason why you are not getting very good Slayer rates, and this quote sums it up nicely.

 

 

 

. . . REALLY? Karil's?! UNICORN?! No cannon, I presume? It takes me 20 minutes to do a spectres task. How long does it take you, an hour? Two? Read Zarfot's guide. I think you'd really benefit.

 

 

 

 

The slayer rates are for melee xp, even if he used a cannon it will stay the same.

 

 

 

Well the thing is that some tasks are really a no-brainer to cannon. I cannon almost all of my tasks. So then it isn't just melee xp that is being compared but ranged as well.

 

 

 

You could chin the range xp.

[Zaaps1]

 

I certainly wasn't aware you used protect from magic at specters; I find karils to be enough magic defence that a unicorn keeps me healed, and the savings in prayer potions makes up for the very minor boost a summon can provide.

 

 

 

 

I was extremely interested in this whole discussion until I read this. You seriously slay spectres with Karil's and a unicorn? Seriously? There is a very good reason why you are not getting very good Slayer rates, and this quote sums it up nicely.

 

 

 

. . . REALLY? Karil's?! UNICORN?! No cannon, I presume? It takes me 20 minutes to do a spectres task. How long does it take you, an hour? Two? Read Zarfot's guide. I think you'd really benefit.

 

 

 

 

The slayer rates are for melee xp, even if he used a cannon it will stay the same.

 

 

 

Well the thing is that some tasks are really a no-brainer to cannon. I cannon almost all of my tasks. So then it isn't just melee xp that is being compared but ranged as well.

 

 

 

You could chin the range xp.

 

 

 

That's true. You wouldn't get any melee xp though.

 

 

 

Still, I do not think Slayer is best for xp, but it's the best way to train combat since you raise another skill. I always go after total levels, anyway, not a specific skill.

[compfreak847]

I'm assuming that none of you read the earlier portion of this thread, or you would haev seen that for most task (including specters), cannon was proved to be inefficient and made slayer look WORSE. Using the rates for a cannon instead of meleeing would make slayer less efficient in comparison and armored zombies better. Now, I could have made the argument that because most people cannon I should use those numbers to make slayer look worse, but I believe that only the most efficient methods should be used.

 

 

 

So for those telling me to use a cannon, that's EXACTLY why I don't simply post my end rates, results, and methods here: had you gone back to read the beginning of the thread, you would have seen that using a cannon would make slayer look worse -.-

 

 

 

@Ydraisle: Busy in RL atm, I'll respond to your post later this afternoon.

[Mischlings]

I'm assuming that none of you read the earlier portion of this thread, or you would haev seen that for most task (including specters), cannon was proved to be inefficient and made slayer look WORSE. Using the rates for a cannon instead of meleeing would make slayer less efficient in comparison and armored zombies better. Now, I could have made the argument that because most people cannon I should use those numbers to make slayer look worse, but I believe that only the most efficient methods should be used.

 

 

 

I've read large amounts of the thread and remember seeing that the cannon, from purely a time perspective, was more efficient. The time it saves, without considering the xp gained through its use, is enough to make it more efficient. I remember reading that before, in this thread. That was one of Ydrasil's points, and I remember reading your argument against it, though I can't exactly say that it ever made much, if any, sense to me.

[Obtaurian]

I'm assuming that none of you read the earlier portion of this thread, or you would haev seen that for most task (including specters), cannon was proved to be inefficient and made slayer look WORSE. Using the rates for a cannon instead of meleeing would make slayer less efficient in comparison and armored zombies better. Now, I could have made the argument that because most people cannon I should use those numbers to make slayer look worse, but I believe that only the most efficient methods should be used.

 

 

 

So for those telling me to use a cannon, that's EXACTLY why I don't simply post my end rates, results, and methods here: had you gone back to read the beginning of the thread, you would have seen that using a cannon would make slayer look worse -.-

 

 

 

@Ydraisle: Busy in RL atm, I'll respond to your post later this afternoon.

 

 

 

And Ydrasil proved a few posts up that a cannon is most certainly worth using. I don't know about you, but I prefer to get things done quickly in Runescape, and if that means spending a little more money to get a task done in twenty minutes rather than an HOUR, I will opt for the cannon.

 

 

 

As far as I'm concerned, you haven't proven anything other than Armored Zombies are great melee experience and that you're terrible at slaying. I'm still optimistic that Slayer is better experience overall.

[compfreak847]

And Ydrasil proved a few posts up that a cannon is most certainly worth using. I don't know about you, but I prefer to get things done quickly in Runescape, and if that means spending a little more money to get a task done in twenty minutes rather than an HOUR, I will opt for the cannon.

 

I missed the point where he ran the numbers for cannon at specters, perhaps you could point it out? Or are you just making it up to avoid the fact that you either refuse to or cannot do so yourself? :roll:

 

 

 

 

As far as I'm concerned, you haven't proven anything other than Armored Zombies are great melee experience and that you're terrible at slaying. I'm still optimistic that Slayer is better experience overall.

 

Where are YOUR rates to differ? You can believe 2 + 2 = 5 and be as optimistic as you want about it, but unless you have actual numerical proof of it, your mistaking your opinions for facts =D>

 

 

 

 

I've read large amounts of the thread and remember seeing that the cannon, from purely a time perspective, was more efficient. The time it saves, without considering the xp gained through its use, is enough to make it more efficient. I remember reading that before, in this thread. That was one of Ydrasil's points, and I remember reading your argument against it, though I can't exactly say that it ever made much, if any, sense to me.

 

Unfortunately, time isn't the only perspective. I typed up a very long and detailed response to that pont, and it boiled down to these basic paramaters working against the cannon that morningrise is trying to pretend don't exist:

 

 

 

#1: Experience lost due to cannon's damage being worth less (2 range XP from a cannon, worth far less then melee XP vs. 4 melee XP & 1.33 HP XP from melee)

 

#2: Combat rounds lost due to far away kills from cannons extended range (Specific to tasks, but if a cannon kills a monster 10 squares away from the next nearest one, your going to lose at least 2 whip hits running over to pick up a good drop)

 

#3: Combat rounds lost due to faster kills (Specific to tasks, worse on low HP monsters); basically, if a monster dies in 2 whip hits + various cannon hits, your going to lose more time running to the next monster and picking up the drops. This sometimes occurs with melee, but it's a time that does not go down with faster kills and works against cannons speed.

 

#4: Speeds related to tasks that a cannon does not affect (i.e. banking, getting a new task, running to the current one)

 

#5: Costs directly related to a cannon (Cannonballs)

 

#6: Costs related to cannon usage (Prayer potions due to multi combat)

 

#7: Spawn time issues (Harder at kalphites; at crowded times, it's very difficult to get a full world, and even then you spend a significant amount of time waiting for respawns - all the while receiving much less XP per task and spending more money thanks to the cannon).

 

 

 

There were quite a few other factors, but those were the main ones that I calculated to end up with a final figure that represented the earnings necessary to make the method equally efficient to melee; if it was over 400k, it was less efficient, and if it was under it was more efficient. Quite simple, and no amount of ignorance or opinions can change that.

[compfreak847]

 

If you are being sincere when you strongly disagree... then the only reason Slayer mighr be bad is because you are bad at doing Slayer (with respect to experience rates). There was never a "proven" method of adjusting his rates for Slayer. There was you saying that are correct, but there was evidence to back up that claim. The only way to see if the adjustment is correct is for Qeltar himself to use the exact same method and equipment (only difference would it would be on Slayer using a Slayer Helm and using +10% strength prayer). That is the only real way to do it because everyone has different reaction times and attention spans. Also my current personal rate for Suqahs is 44.2k to Slayer (although up to around 50k is possible). Not only that, but I have gone that bad in any task even if you multiply his numbers by 1.15.

 

But thusfar it has been quite obvious that I am not "bad" at slayer - the same methods achieve very similar rates; we are using standardized equipments and inventories, and from timings ranging from reaction time tests to abyss run timing to XP\kill speed comparison at everything from GWD to monster hunting, I know that I am highly efficient (I recently came in less then a second slower then Zarfot's all time best rate for an abyss run - and he's been doing it dozens of times longer then I have), and I've only seen one other person in game who can come close to matching me.

 

 

 

 

I know that, I only said that it was my belief that combat level and Slayer level affects the frequency of tasks.

 

But without any facts, it's very hard to do any comparison. We need data on it to include this in our XP rates.

 

 

 

 

I don't think I've ever hard a large difference in testing but I can't be 100% sure. The point is, a 10% drop at Armoured Zombies is huge, something must have changed.

 

This was from dozens of hours of testing the largest difference I've ever experienced. Generally it's within 5%. I'm simply saying that 10 minutes is just too short to get numbers within a few percentage points, especially at a "complex" monster like Specters. You couldn't hunt Kree for 5 minutes and establish a kill per hour rate accurate to within a percent or two.

 

 

 

 

No, of course I completely missed the word about. That is clearly why I looked a couple pages before and after, you know, because I didn't know it was "about" page 36. I know for a fact that you have never given your rates for each task (experience and profit rates for each). Here's the kicker. You say I have "never" given detail with my results and that you have. The only thing I am apparently missing was the banking times. If that is the case, it can be deduced that you have those rates yourself. So what are banking times then?

 

I was operating under the impression that you had actually read my previous posts dealing with numbers. Have you or haven't you? That could clear things up significantly. And banking time were also hammered out earlier in the thread. Honesty, you seem to have forgotten everything we discussed earlier.

 

 

 

 

*Laughs at the irony in the first sentence* (Yes I know it is a typo)

 

Your responses to every single part on the section of Zamorak Brews does nothing but indicate you have misunderstood over and over. Then you tried to blame me for that. It was not a cover up, just calling it as I see it, your responses to that section was nothing short of idiotic. You can sit there and post ""your an idiot because you misread my post"" all day long if you want, the difference is you would be lieing.

 

*Laughs at the irony with the last 2 sentences*

 

The last 2 sentences indicated that you once again misunderstood my post. I posted this "Any lack of clarity in this case is directly your fault, as the posts were full of clarity." It clearly says "in this case". Now please explain to me how this means it is always your fault? I have never said it is either always the composers fault or the responders fault. I was pointing out in this case it was the responders fault because there wasn't exactly much room for misinterpretation.

 

Ehh? I don't see a typo in the first sentance, though I could have made it clearer by adding quotes: You can drop the "stuipd" argument (i.e. the argument that I'm an idiot).

 

My responses have been on target and made complete sense in the context of your post. I'm not sure why your continuing to harp on that point instead of responding to the actual post. If you can't understand my posts, it is MY fault. If I can't understand your posts, it is YOUR fault. We're both reasonably (or so I believe) intelligent human beings, and should be quite capable of grasping any point laid out in a reasonbly well communicated manner. Basically, all I'm saying is don't say "Your post made no sense, so its your fault. Oh, and its your fault you didn't think my post made any sense".

 

 

 

 

Every single time it was indicated there was no damage being taken. 2/3 directly say I am using it, and the 3rd infers it. Also, feel free to explain how a Unicorn will provide ample healing when I am being attacked by up to around 7 Aberrant Spectres at any one point in time. In case you do not understand why, I use a cannon in the Pollnivneach (think I spelt wrong) well. Also, just out of curiosity, how many healing aura scrolls would you go through per task on average?

 

Notice the key word "if". It's another example of why you should be listing your methods. In response to your question: I go through 30-40 in a task, at a cost of approx. 11k.

 

 

 

 

So by not being nitpicky your response started with "Assuming you meant now, and that would indeed be an interesting quote". The rest of the post did not indicate that it based on "no". The very next part of the quote is "- except that it was certainly not the end of our debate, and my numbers WERE based on testing" You went straight from assuming it is "now" to saying it was not the end of the debate. That is referring to when that number was brought up earlier in the thread.

 

And that is referring to your continued accusation of my "misreading" of your typo, not the argument itself. Why are you continually trying to swap factual arguments for personal arguments?

 

 

 

 

I have been recording some vid's of different tests ranging from about 7 minutes to 11 or so. every single one has been reasonably close to my hourly rate. So far I have done it for Waterfiends, Bloodvelds, Gargoyles, Skeletal Wyverns and Fire Giants. I performed 2 tests for both Gargoyles and Fire Giants to try different methods.

 

Define "reasonably close" and "some". Probability deals with numbers, not generic terms meaning "from 2 to infinity".

[ydrasil]

I missed the point where he ran the numbers for cannon at specters, perhaps you could point it out? Or are you just making it up to avoid the fact that you either refuse to or cannot do so yourself? :roll:

 

He was obviously referring to where I showed a cannon is worth using at Bloodvelds. I had also shown earlier in the thread for Aberrant Spectres but I do not know what the end result was. Even so, I believe that number was basesd upon Qeltar's numbers, who is incredicbly inefficient.

 

 

 

#1: Experience lost due to cannon's damage being worth less (2 range XP from a cannon, worth far less then melee XP vs. 4 melee XP & 1.33 HP XP from melee)

 

#2: Combat rounds lost due to far away kills from cannons extended range (Specific to tasks, but if a cannon kills a monster 10 squares away from the next nearest one, your going to lose at least 2 whip hits running over to pick up a good drop)

 

#3: Combat rounds lost due to faster kills (Specific to tasks, worse on low HP monsters); basically, if a monster dies in 2 whip hits + various cannon hits, your going to lose more time running to the next monster and picking up the drops. This sometimes occurs with melee, but it's a time that does not go down with faster kills and works against cannons speed.

 

#4: Speeds related to tasks that a cannon does not affect (i.e. banking, getting a new task, running to the current one)

 

#5: Costs directly related to a cannon (Cannonballs)

 

#6: Costs related to cannon usage (Prayer potions due to multi combat)

 

#7: Spawn time issues (Harder at kalphites; at crowded times, it's very difficult to get a full world, and even then you spend a significant amount of time waiting for respawns - all the while receiving much less XP per task and spending more money thanks to the cannon).

 

1. Experience loss was not a factor as I recall. While the damage from a cannon resulted in less experience, due to its speed you were getting more experience overall per hour.

 

 

 

2. The only task I can think of where this could happen is Aberrant Spectres, and that doesn't even happen all the time. Fire giants are in the small room in the Waterfall (7 of them), Bloodvelds all die within a few squares of the cannon. Dagannoths can be killed from far out, but nearly all are killed within a small radius of the cannon (about 7 or so steps), but that is almost irrelevant as you can be almost guaranteed there will be a Dagannoth to hit on the way to the drop. Scabarites has a more open sort of area and a bigger spread of where the NPCs are, but there is always a Scabarite close enough to kill to where the drops are. Finally Suqahs, about 90-95% of them die within 2 steps of the cannon. The cannon will ocassionally kill one quite far away. However, since Suqahs generally do not even have that good of drops (including charms that only drop about 3% of the time for each colour), I never run over to see what it is let alone pick it up. So #2 is not an issue.

 

 

 

3. Essentially the same reasoning as above. Aberrant Spectres being the only task that this might be a problem on. Generally the distance to the next one is not that far, and since the rate with a cannon is just under 45k Slayer experience per hour with a cannon, I believe we can assume that it is negligible.

 

 

 

4. What does not using a cannon on other tasks have to do with speed? Reading what is in the brackets infers you meant not other tasks, but simply the banking time. However, there is no loss in speed for simply carrying a cannon nor banking one. When I get to the bank I hit the bank all button. So there is no loss for banking, no loss for getting a new task (NPC Contact), nor running to the next one.

 

 

 

5. Cost is a factor, correct.

 

 

 

6. Not true (for me anyway). On every task where I use a cannon I would already be using prayer, or in the case of Dagannoths and Fire Giants, no (protect) prayer is used anyway. So that being the case, using a cannon saves money on supplies, not the reverse.

 

 

 

7. Spawn time issues are essentially irrelevant. Just because you have to wait for spawns (only task I can think of is Kalphites, which I cancel anyway) does not make a cannon not worth it. You are killing the Kalphites much faster and overall getting a much faster experience rate.

 

 

 

But thusfar it has been quite obvious that I am not "bad" at slayer - the same methods achieve very similar rates; we are using standardized equipments and inventories, and from timings ranging from reaction time tests to abyss run timing to XP\kill speed comparison at everything from GWD to monster hunting, I know that I am highly efficient (I recently came in less then a second slower then Zarfot's all time best rate for an abyss run - and he's been doing it dozens of times longer then I have), and I've only seen one other person in game who can come close to matching me.

 

Now this is where I have to disagree. You are utilising inefficient methods for Slayer and resulting in a much lower rate of experience. How can you really say you being efficient if you utilise inefficient methods? Your speeds at the Abyss are irrelevant. They have no bearing on how you perform on Slayer.

 

 

 

Hypothetically, lets say you are right and that a cannon was not worth using at 400k (in no way am I implying you are correct, I still know you are not), it was apparently accordig to you, only out by a little bit. Are you trying to say that you cannot make over 400k per hour? I have seen you in Help and Advice forum saying you can get 825k at Aviansies. That means for you, to not be using a cannon is inefficient. So no, you are not "highly" efficient as you would claim.

 

 

 

This was from dozens of hours of testing the largest difference I've ever experienced. Generally it's within 5%. I'm simply saying that 10 minutes is just too short to get numbers within a few percentage points, especially at a "complex" monster like Specters. You couldn't hunt Kree for 5 minutes and establish a kill per hour rate accurate to within a percent or two.

 

I was pointing out that a 10% difference at Armoured Zombies is to big just to be a factor of the randomness of hits. 10 minutes is not too short for a test. It gets you a very reasonable approximation of the hourly rate. This holds true for that "complex" NPC you mentioned as I have tested that for just under 10 minutes and got within 1.5k slayer experience difference from the average rate in the table I posted. That is more than acceptable considering it is an average after all. Nor would I ever suggest to kill Kree for 5 minutes and determine a kill rate. I would suggest at least half an hour for a test in that respect. Do not misunderstand me, I know longer tests and more tests provide more accurate results. The whole idea of doing it for shorter times is to get a reasonable approximation, which is what it accomplishes.

 

 

 

I was operating under the impression that you had actually read my previous posts dealing with numbers. Have you or haven't you? That could clear things up significantly. And banking time were also hammered out earlier in the thread. Honesty, you seem to have forgotten everything we discussed earlier.

 

I have been through this thread the whole time, so yes I have read all of your posts (many of them multiple times when referencing them and such). That is how I know as a fact you have never given your rates for each task (experience and profit). This is furthur evidenced when you just posted how you killed Aberrant Spectres. Not I or anyone else knew you being that inefficent by not utilising the cannon. The reason why we did not know is because you have never posted that before. This is a fact. Considering I believe that would fall under "details" that should have been in the thread earlier. You are also now tyring to say banking times were "hammered out" earlier in the thread. Tell me the post number of where this is, or at the very least a page number of where the final rate for banking is. Anything less and it only goes to show that is also not in the thread. Considering if it was, you would not be constantly going on about what mine are (as you always believe you are correct, so therefore yours must be, and anything I give would have to be incorrect, right?).

 

 

 

Ehh? I don't see a typo in the first sentance, though I could have made it clearer by adding quotes: You can drop the "stuipd" argument (i.e. the argument that I'm an idiot).

 

My responses have been on target and made complete sense in the context of your post. I'm not sure why your continuing to harp on that point instead of responding to the actual post. If you can't understand my posts, it is MY fault. If I can't understand your posts, it is YOUR fault. We're both reasonably (or so I believe) intelligent human beings, and should be quite capable of grasping any point laid out in a reasonbly well communicated manner. Basically, all I'm saying is don't say "Your post made no sense, so its your fault. Oh, and its your fault you didn't think my post made any sense".

 

Err... "stuipd" isn't a typo? Which you have now done 2 posts in a row. Unless I have forgotten how to spell that word recently or that is a typo.

 

 

 

Please do not try and say your posts made sense in the context of my post. Everything you have posted with regards to the Zamorak Brew does nothing but indicate otherwise. You have over and over misunderstood everything that was presented. Unlike you, I do not always believe it falls into the category of composers or responders fault. It is capable of being either as well as both simultaneously. I am talking about in this specific case, it is the responders fault. How could you (or anyone for that matter) interpret "An example is Aberrant Spectres. With protect from Magic on, you take no damage." this any other way than that I use a Protection Prayer and take no damage? Explain that to me. You specifcally stated you had no idea I used it, and every post on this matter has stated that I was using a protection prayer and in one case inferred that I was. Explain that to me then.

 

 

 

Notice the key word "if". It's another example of why you should be listing your methods. In response to your question: I go through 30-40 in a task, at a cost of approx. 11k.

 

What do you mean the keyword "if"? I think you are referring to where I posted this "If I am not taking damage due to a protection prayer" But I am not 100% sure. That was taken from my original response to what potions I used. So I don't see what bearing the word "if" has to try and prove your point.

 

 

 

Again... I have always stated what methods I use to do each task. Hell, that is pretty much apparent when I tell what my outfit is for that task. What were you expecting? When I said I wear Karils and a Saradomin Sword to Waterfiends, do you think my method is use the sword or to use Ice Barrage on them? The equipment used, potions/prayers used and whether or not I cannon gives all the information needed to know what method I use. If you can honestly not work it out from that information, it falls back to above section on being idiotic. All that information was given (again) on page 68.

 

 

 

Another question, how logn does the task take you to complete on average? Also from that, what is your average Slayer experience per hour rate? (You know, because you have never given us this rate)

 

 

 

And that is referring to your continued accusation of my "misreading" of your typo, not the argument itself. Why are you continually trying to swap factual arguments for personal arguments?

 

Feel free to explain to me how your post can be taken in other way than it being responded to as "now" and nothing given any indication to the opposite.

 

 

 

Define "reasonably close" and "some". Probability deals with numbers, not generic terms meaning "from 2 to infinity".

 

I've got better ones. Define "Sucks". Define "Best". Hell, even determine "efficient".

 

 

 

When I said reasonably close, it was because the rates I was getting from the test was within a few thousand experience to what the average rate in my table is. Once I have gotten videos for each task (or most at least because some may take longer before I receive), I will upload them so that you can see. I won't do it today though. I swap over to my adsl2+ internet tomorrow and download and upload speed will increase significantly. So I will do it any time after then.

[compfreak847]

 

He was obviously referring to where I showed a cannon is worth using at Bloodvelds. I had also shown earlier in the thread for Aberrant Spectres but I do not know what the end result was. Even so, I believe that number was basesd upon Qeltar's numbers, who is incredicbly inefficient.

 

 

I was extremely interested in this whole discussion until I read this. You seriously slay spectres with Karil's and a unicorn? Seriously? There is a very good reason why you are not getting very good Slayer rates, and this quote sums it up nicely.

 

 

 

. . . REALLY? Karil's?! UNICORN?! No cannon, I presume? It takes me 20 minutes to do a spectres task. How long does it take you, an hour? Two? Read Zarfot's guide. I think you'd really benefit.

 

 

Which part of that refers to bloodvields? I'm sort of curious, as apparently I missed the part where he switch from spectres to bloodvields.

 

 

 

 

1. Experience loss was not a factor as I recall. While the damage from a cannon resulted in less experience, due to its speed you were getting more experience overall per hour.

 

 

 

2. The only task I can think of where this could happen is Aberrant Spectres, and that doesn't even happen all the time. Fire giants are in the small room in the Waterfall (7 of them), Bloodvelds all die within a few squares of the cannon. Dagannoths can be killed from far out, but nearly all are killed within a small radius of the cannon (about 7 or so steps), but that is almost irrelevant as you can be almost guaranteed there will be a Dagannoth to hit on the way to the drop. Scabarites has a more open sort of area and a bigger spread of where the NPCs are, but there is always a Scabarite close enough to kill to where the drops are. Finally Suqahs, about 90-95% of them die within 2 steps of the cannon. The cannon will ocassionally kill one quite far away. However, since Suqahs generally do not even have that good of drops (including charms that only drop about 3% of the time for each colour), I never run over to see what it is let alone pick it up. So #2 is not an issue.

 

 

 

3. Essentially the same reasoning as above. Aberrant Spectres being the only task that this might be a problem on. Generally the distance to the next one is not that far, and since the rate with a cannon is just under 45k Slayer experience per hour with a cannon, I believe we can assume that it is negligible.

 

 

 

4. What does not using a cannon on other tasks have to do with speed? Reading what is in the brackets infers you meant not other tasks, but simply the banking time. However, there is no loss in speed for simply carrying a cannon nor banking one. When I get to the bank I hit the bank all button. So there is no loss for banking, no loss for getting a new task (NPC Contact), nor running to the next one.

 

 

 

5. Cost is a factor, correct.

 

 

 

6. Not true (for me anyway). On every task where I use a cannon I would already be using prayer, or in the case of Dagannoths and Fire Giants, no (protect) prayer is used anyway. So that being the case, using a cannon saves money on supplies, not the reverse.

 

 

 

7. Spawn time issues are essentially irrelevant. Just because you have to wait for spawns (only task I can think of is Kalphites, which I cancel anyway) does not make a cannon not worth it. You are killing the Kalphites much faster and overall getting a much faster experience rate.

 

Two things: #1, yes, I was indeed talking about specters. See above. #2, I'm not saying that any of these are what makes it better or worse - I'm saying you have to consider them instead of going LULZ I DO TASKS IN 20 MINUTES AND U DO THEM IN 2 HOURS LOLZ HURR HURR UR AN IDIOT LEARN TO SLAY HURR HURR. Not that I'm referring to anyone in particular, of course.

 

 

 

 

Now this is where I have to disagree. You are utilising inefficient methods for Slayer and resulting in a much lower rate of experience. How can you really say you being efficient if you utilise inefficient methods? Your speeds at the Abyss are irrelevant. They have no bearing on how you perform on Slayer.

 

Hypothetically, lets say you are right and that a cannon was not worth using at 400k (in no way am I implying you are correct, I still know you are not), it was apparently accordig to you, only out by a little bit. Are you trying to say that you cannot make over 400k per hour? I have seen you in Help and Advice forum saying you can get 825k at Aviansies. That means for you, to not be using a cannon is inefficient. So no, you are not "highly" efficient as you would claim.

 

OK, I'm not understanding what your trying to say. Please explain further. My question is, are you referring to my methods (Using a cannon, equipments\invos etc., all not specific to a person and easy to chane) or my actual skills (Mousing speed, reaction time, coordination, specific to a person and impossible to change)? I thought you were referring to my physical computer usage skills with jabs about reaction time, and my response to abyssal and other timings were directed as such. Methods are something that can be changed and must be proven.

 

 

 

[

 

I was pointing out that a 10% difference at Armoured Zombies is to big just to be a factor of the randomness of hits. 10 minutes is not too short for a test. It gets you a very reasonable approximation of the hourly rate. This holds true for that "complex" NPC you mentioned as I have tested that for just under 10 minutes and got within 1.5k slayer experience difference from the average rate in the table I posted. That is more than acceptable considering it is an average after all. Nor would I ever suggest to kill Kree for 5 minutes and determine a kill rate. I would suggest at least half an hour for a test in that respect. Do not misunderstand me, I know longer tests and more tests provide more accurate results. The whole idea of doing it for shorter times is to get a reasonable approximation, which is what it accomplishes.

 

And I'm pointing out that it is a factor of the randomness of hits. There are simply no other variables that can be simplified further. Remember, this isn't as if I tested two hours and measured the difference between them; I tested dozens of hours, and the difference between the maximum and minimum was 10%. But slayer is much more complex; instead of clicking a couple of times every 3 minutes, your required to attack each and every monster, pick up drops from far away and (on some tasks) use a cannon. Armored zombies was simply my way of showing that even with all possible chance of human error removed, there is still significant randomness from the combat system itself. See other, much longer threads where I go into details on the hit spread calculator; suffice to say, it is not simply a random number.

 

 

 

 

I have been through this thread the whole time, so yes I have read all of your posts (many of them multiple times when referencing them and such). That is how I know as a fact you have never given your rates for each task (experience and profit). This is furthur evidenced when you just posted how you killed Aberrant Spectres. Not I or anyone else knew you being that inefficent by not utilising the cannon. The reason why we did not know is because you have never posted that before. This is a fact. Considering I believe that would fall under "details" that should have been in the thread earlier. You are also now tyring to say banking times were "hammered out" earlier in the thread. Tell me the post number of where this is, or at the very least a page number of where the final rate for banking is. Anything less and it only goes to show that is also not in the thread. Considering if it was, you would not be constantly going on about what mine are (as you always believe you are correct, so therefore yours must be, and anything I give would have to be incorrect, right?).

 

Look, all rates were required to obtain slayer results. We didn't spend 40 pages talking about nothing; all rates for all tasks are in there. That chart was at the beginning; you and I went through each task until we found a number we both (at the time) believed to be correct based on testing.

 

 

 

And your misunderstanding me on the numbers. As I said earlier, if two players with equal stats and methods slay at the same rate over a long period of time, they are going to obtain very close to the same results. Therefore, one of us is either lying outright, something that I would believe to be impossible at this range of the thread (If you or I was simply making up numbers, it should have come out before this or one of us would have given up), or somehow our methods are not matching up.

 

 

 

 

Err... "stuipd" isn't a typo? Which you have now done 2 posts in a row. Unless I have forgotten how to spell that word recently or that is a typo.

 

Can you understand what the word is supposed to be? Again, ti's dyslexia (yes, that's another common typo of mine, but one that I usually catch before posting) swapping the "i" and "p". But it certainly doesn't obfuscate the meaning of the word.

 

 

 

 

Please do not try and say your posts made sense in the context of my post. Everything you have posted with regards to the Zamorak Brew does nothing but indicate otherwise. You have over and over misunderstood everything that was presented. Unlike you, I do not always believe it falls into the category of composers or responders fault. It is capable of being either as well as both simultaneously. I am talking about in this specific case, it is the responders fault. How could you (or anyone for that matter) interpret "An example is Aberrant Spectres. With protect from Magic on, you take no damage." this any other way than that I use a Protection Prayer and take no damage? Explain that to me. You specifcally stated you had no idea I used it, and every post on this matter has stated that I was using a protection prayer and in one case inferred that I was. Explain that to me then.

 

 

 

What do you mean the keyword "if"? I think you are referring to where I posted this "If I am not taking damage due to a protection prayer" But I am not 100% sure. That was taken from my original response to what potions I used. So I don't see what bearing the word "if" has to try and prove your point.

 

 

Who's to say you were not simply using it as an example? I could say that at Avansies I take no damage with protect from range, but it doesn't mean that's the method I used. Additionally, cannon was proven to be inefficient at Specters earlier in the thread, and I was assuming you were trying to remain as efficient as possible.

 

 

 

 

Again... I have always stated what methods I use to do each task. Hell, that is pretty much apparent when I tell what my outfit is for that task. What were you expecting? When I said I wear Karils and a Saradomin Sword to Waterfiends, do you think my method is use the sword or to use Ice Barrage on them? The equipment used, potions/prayers used and whether or not I cannon gives all the information needed to know what method I use. If you can honestly not work it out from that information, it falls back to above section on being idiotic. All that information was given (again) on page 68.

 

As shown above, quite frequently playing detective and trying to reverse-engineer your methods from your outfit yields the incorrect interpretation - the reason methods should be outlined as well.

 

 

 

 

Another question, how logn does the task take you to complete on average? Also from that, what is your average Slayer experience per hour rate? (You know, because you have never given us this rate)

 

Approx. 78k melee XP\h, not including 2.2 minute banking time, or an extra bank in the middle for an invo of rannars, meaning around 45 minutes per task and 19.5k slayer XP\h during testing. Informally, using aim, my rate drops to approx. 56k XP\h from distractions and waiting for one drop before attacking to reduce hassle.

 

 

 

 

I've got better ones. Define "Sucks". Define "Best". Hell, even determine "efficient".

 

In the context of this thread:

 

Sucks: Inferior to one or more other methods

 

Best: Superior to all other methods

 

[Most] Efficient: A method that results in the lowest possible overall time to complete a tasked based on money spent and overall XP gained.

 

 

 

 

When I said reasonably close, it was because the rates I was getting from the test was within a few thousand experience to what the average rate in my table is. Once I have gotten videos for each task (or most at least because some may take longer before I receive), I will upload them so that you can see. I won't do it today though. I swap over to my adsl2+ internet tomorrow and download and upload speed will increase significantly. So I will do it any time after then.

 

Don't bother posting videos. Editing and cropping mean the results from them appear to be whatever the poster wants them to be. I could post a video of me hitting nothing but 45s with a whip on abyssal demons, but it doesn't really prove anything.

[zalitz_miner]

Don't bother posting videos. Editing and cropping mean the results from them appear to be whatever the poster wants them to be. I could post a video of me hitting nothing but 45s with a whip on abyssal demons, but it doesn't really prove anything.

 

 

 

You can't be serious....

[compfreak847]

Don't bother posting videos. Editing and cropping mean the results from them appear to be whatever the poster wants them to be. I could post a video of me hitting nothing but 45s with a whip on abyssal demons, but it doesn't really prove anything.

 

 

 

You can't be serious....

 

I can be. See other posts for further proof. I don't generally joke during debates, deadpan humor is too easy to miss and leads to flame wars.

[Deathmath]

Waaay serious. :

 

 

 

Anyways I don't get why the argument continues: the math isn't there for saying slayer is the best way of training combat (mathematically)

[compfreak847]

Waaay serious. :

 

 

 

Anyways I don't get why the argument continues: the math isn't there for saying slayer is the best way of training combat (mathematically)

 

That depends who you listen to ;)

 

 

 

We were in agreement earlier, but apparently he made up all his rates for the first 50 or so pages so the agreement was false. (cues deep announcer voice) He's back. And this time he's got REAL proof.

 

 

 

That being said (I love that line :lol: ), there should NOT be a significant difference in the rates two high level slayers are obtaining using the same methods. Once we figure that out and end up back where we were several dozen pages ago, we can begin running numbers and tweaking methods again.

[Deathmath]

Yeah really, with ideal setups and minimal interruption we aren't dealing with chaos theory :lol:

 

 

 

You should get similar rates within maybe 10%?

 

 

 

EDIT: one post from 1337 >.>

[compfreak847]

Yeah really, with ideal setups and minimal interruption we aren't dealing with chaos theory :lol:

 

 

 

You should get similar rates within maybe 10%?

 

 

 

EDIT: one post from 1337 >.>

 

Well under 10%, see my argument on 10% being the maximum variation over an hour period of time, and we should be obtaining much less then that as our numbers come from significantly over an hour.

 

 

 

Also, your technically higher then 1337 already, as you used to mention in your sig the rollback stole posts. I lost over 850 posts, including one evening with a competition between me and Inushakent. I managed to get the 'last posted by' for every single thread on the front page of the H&A forum save one, and he constantly posted on one of them just as I was about to finish it off. The 1 minute limit killed me, it went on for almost a half hour until he finally had to leave :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Deathmath]

Yeah really, with ideal setups and minimal interruption we aren't dealing with chaos theory :lol:

 

 

 

You should get similar rates within maybe 10%?

 

 

 

EDIT: one post from 1337 >.>

 

Well under 10%, see my argument on 10% being the maximum variation over an hour period of time, and we should be obtaining much less then that as our numbers come from significantly over an hour.

 

 

 

Also, your technically higher then 1337 already, as you used to mention in your sig the rollback stole posts. I lost over 850 posts, including one evening with a competition between me and Inushakent. I managed to get the 'last posted by' for every single thread on the front page of the H&A forum save one, and he constantly posted on one of them just as I was about to finish it off. The 1 minute limit killed me, it went on for almost a half hour until he finally had to leave :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

 

Oh yeah, I didn't even know you were around back then. But w/e I don't care about post count tbh. I've never really tested runescape, don't have the time or endurance to. I'm just basing it off my AP stat class. I can't seem to find your 10% argument though :wall: link?

 

 

 

Better get back to the items lost on death one ;P

[compfreak847]

It spans viewtopic.php?f=66&t=765267&start=1340 to present, I don't blame you a bit for not wanting to read it. I can only imagine how boring it must be to anyone other then me and ydraisle :lol:

 

 

 

Better get back to the items lost on death one ;P

 

Been working on it, but I gotta go soon :lol:

[ydrasil]

Which part of that refers to bloodvields? I'm sort of curious, as apparently I missed the part where he switch from spectres to bloodvields

 

You have made a mistake. The part that you quoted in your response, to which I then replied to your response was not what was quoted above. Maybe not explained the best, but go back and you should understand. He posted something, you quoted that and responded to it. I quoted your response here, and responded to that. You now bring up a different quote which was not what this was based on. The quote was this:

 

And Ydrasil proved a few posts up that a cannon is most certainly worth using. I don't know about you, but I prefer to get things done quickly in Runescape, and if that means spending a little more money to get a task done in twenty minutes rather than an HOUR, I will opt for the cannon.

 

He specifically states a few posts up. The only one I brought up was about Bloodvelds as that was the only one I tested myself personally (as Qeltars rates cannot be truly trusted as efficient). So from that it can be deduced he was referring to the Bloodveld part.

 

 

 

Two things: #1, yes, I was indeed talking about specters. See above. #2, I'm not saying that any of these are what makes it better or worse - I'm saying you have to consider them instead of going LULZ I DO TASKS IN 20 MINUTES AND U DO THEM IN 2 HOURS LOLZ HURR HURR UR AN IDIOT LEARN TO SLAY HURR HURR. Not that I'm referring to anyone in particular, of course.

 

The point isn't that they have to be considered. In testing all of these factors are essentially accounted for and they already boost/lower the rate. Meaning, you don't perform a test which results in X experience for Y time using a certain method (for example using a cannon, as that is what we are talking about), and then follow up that tested by changing those figures to account for those points you mentioned above. That should make sense to you. If it is already in the test, no need to do it twice.

 

 

 

From this, what I am trying to convey is that all of those factors were accounted for already in the testing of experience per hour for a given method. So out of all those points you mentioned, only one applies, and that was cost. Combine that with time to determine which is more efficient.

 

 

 

OK, I'm not understanding what your trying to say. Please explain further. My question is, are you referring to my methods (Using a cannon, equipments\invos etc., all not specific to a person and easy to chane) or my actual skills (Mousing speed, reaction time, coordination, specific to a person and impossible to change)? I thought you were referring to my physical computer usage skills with jabs about reaction time, and my response to abyssal and other timings were directed as such. Methods are something that can be changed and must be proven.

 

I don't see what was difficult to understand. I was not referring to your mousing clicking speed and such, that was clreay indicated I thought. It was quite obvious I was referring to the methods utilised as in the quote it says:

 

You are utilising inefficient methods for Slayer and resulting in a much lower rate of experience.

 

One would think from that I am referring to methods. This was directly brought up as you now say you do not use a cannon on Aberrant Spectres, which is inefficient (especially considering I am sure you can make over 400k an hour as you claim you can get 825k at Aviansies). Now I don't have a number for how many cannonballs I use per hour on average for Spectres, but that doesn't matter for now. Referring to your response that you get 19.8k Slayer experience per hour, and using my result of 43k (in my table I posted), we should see which is more efficient.

 

 

 

It would take me 27.63 minutes to get the same amount of Slayer experience.

 

This leaves 32.37 minutes to make back what is lost due to a cannon (only the cost of cannonballs).

 

We don't know the amount of cannonballs, but we can work in reverse.

 

If it were to be more efficient to use a cannon at only 400k, then for the 27.63 minutes I can use a maximum of 215,814gp worth of cannonballs in that time. Based on the price of 188 each, that is 1,148. That extrapolates to 2,493 per hour. So if I were to use that many cannonballs an hour, it would make a cannon inefficent at 400k an hour.

 

Using the same process, at 500k an hour I would have to of used 3,116 cannonballs an hour.

 

Using the same process, at 600k an hour I would have to of used 3,740 cannonballs an hour.

 

 

 

I can assure you I do not use over 3k an hour so at 500k you can be assured it is more efficient at that point. I am unsure for the rate of 400k. However, since we can assume you make more than that, a cannon is more efficient for you to use. This all shows that you are using an inefficient method for Slayer.

 

 

 

And I'm pointing out that it is a factor of the randomness of hits. There are simply no other variables that can be simplified further. Remember, this isn't as if I tested two hours and measured the difference between them; I tested dozens of hours, and the difference between the maximum and minimum was 10%. But slayer is much more complex; instead of clicking a couple of times every 3 minutes, your required to attack each and every monster, pick up drops from far away and (on some tasks) use a cannon. Armored zombies was simply my way of showing that even with all possible chance of human error removed, there is still significant randomness from the combat system itself. See other, much longer threads where I go into details on the hit spread calculator; suffice to say, it is not simply a random number.

 

Well I think you have purposely mislead me. I was under the impression that you were talking about a 10% change from the average (which can go both ways to a total of 20% spread). Now you indicate here that you were talking about a 10% difference in the minimum and maximum. The average would have to be somewhere in the middle meaning it is only about a 5% deviation. That is not something I disagree with. A 10% deviation from the average was what I was disagreeing with. All of this was based on a misunderstanding it seems as I agree a 5% deviation is acceptable. So we don't have a similar argument as we already are, I won't go in to whether it was my fault or yours, as it doesn't really matter in the long run.

 

 

 

Look, all rates were required to obtain slayer results. We didn't spend 40 pages talking about nothing; all rates for all tasks are in there. That chart was at the beginning; you and I went through each task until we found a number we both (at the time) believed to be correct based on testing.

 

That chart was compiled entirely from Qeltars beastiary. As I have said, I agree with the calculations but disagree with the numbers utilised. This is evidenced where I have lower stats and yet achieve a kill rate of approximately 97 higher per hour on Bloodvelds. I have never said the first 40 pages was about nothing either. Many other things were also discussed besides that intial assumption.

 

 

 

And your misunderstanding me on the numbers. As I said earlier, if two players with equal stats and methods slay at the same rate over a long period of time, they are going to obtain very close to the same results. Therefore, one of us is either lying outright, something that I would believe to be impossible at this range of the thread (If you or I was simply making up numbers, it should have come out before this or one of us would have given up), or somehow our methods are not matching up.

 

That is your problem. We are not using the same methods. I am utilising what I have calculated to be the most efficient methods to train Slayer where you do not (as shown above for Aberrant Spectres). I am not denying if the everything else the exact same except for the player themselves, then yes there would be no difference in actual average. This does not apply however when different methods are utilised.

 

 

 

Can you understand what the word is supposed to be? Again, ti's dyslexia (yes, that's another common typo of mine, but one that I usually catch before posting) swapping the "i" and "p". But it certainly doesn't obfuscate the meaning of the word.

 

I was making a joke geez. Of course I understood what was implied, I was joking about the irony that was there.

 

 

 

Who's to say you were not simply using it as an example? I could say that at Avansies I take no damage with protect from range, but it doesn't mean that's the method I used. Additionally, cannon was proven to be inefficient at Specters earlier in the thread, and I was assuming you were trying to remain as efficient as possible.

 

You should just admit you were wrong so we can move on. There is no justification you can give to the contrary because there is no other way that it can be interpretted. The example was an example of what I do. That post came 2 (or 3?) after the intial post where I mentioned Zamorak Brews. In that post, it was specifically stated that when I personally do not take damage due to a Protection Prayer, I use Zamorak Brews. That exmaple is a perfect indication of that. Why would I post that, give an example that shows exactly what I am talking about and even saying that is what I do, and then somehow illogically imply that I do not use a protection prayer personally. Your reasoning has no logical or factual basis. You seem to be wanting this to keep going for no other reason than you not wanting to admit you are wrong.

 

 

 

As shown above, quite frequently playing detective and trying to reverse-engineer your methods from your outfit yields the incorrect interpretation - the reason methods should be outlined as well.

 

As above, what you say here is incorrect. The information provided can only be incorporated to represent one logical method. Saying that isn't true is a lie.

 

 

 

I told you my constants when doing Slayer (with regards to outfit), meaning these never change. I then told you my standard outfit. The standard is only changed when a specific criteria that was stipulated is met (although I did find one [technically two maybe, it was on the same thing] error when I read through again, I also use DFS on Scabarites for the Defense. Also on Baby Black Dragons as there is a Green Dragon present, should have been quite obvious I would). All of these together shows you know my exact outfit for each task. I tell you tasks I cannoned. If not on one of thoses tasks I clearly am not going to use a cannon no am I?

 

 

 

I tell you the prayers used and when. Superhuman strength as a minimum implies it is either always used, or something better is (never something worse). I then say which tasks the minimum is not used, and tell you what it is changed to (although I missed one task, Piety is also used on Scabarites). I move on to the different protection prayers, where I mention each type of prayer. So now you always know what prayers I will be using. Moving onto potions now (I also found a slight error, nothing major though - when I said I always repot ever 10 minutes isn't quite true. If for example on Dagannoths the task goes for 15 minutes, I am going to use 2 doses of super set anyway. Instead of repotting at 10 minutes, I repot halfway through which results in a [slightly] higher rate of experience for no loss what so ever). It is explained where I use each type of potion.

 

 

 

Sorry for the few errors however, nothing major though.

 

 

 

So from that you have all the information that is required. So an exmaple is in order to prove my point. Lets says I do Scabarites as a task. Lets follow the information now given.

 

 

 

Equipment - Constants go on. Scabarites falls under where I use a DFS which is the only change to the Standard outfit. So that means you know what I wear for this task (standard outfit but DFS instead of Defender).

 

 

 

Cannon - It is said I use a cannon so I do (that was hard).

 

 

 

Prayers - Superhuman strength as a minimum, but this falls under one of the tasks I use piety on, so that is used instead. It then says protect from Range is used for this task (prayers sued are piety and protect from range).

 

 

 

Potions - Start off from Super Sets as a minimum. I am using a protection prayer, so that means I should use Brew/Super Strength and no Defence right? Not quite. I am still taking damage (as there are mages, rangers and meleers in the cavern). So therefore I stick to a Super Set. Prayer potions are used to restore prayer. The task is short so I won't need to summon a second familiar, so no need for a super restore.

 

 

 

Tell me now what method do you think I use from that information? Ooooh I know, I must be using Blood rush while lugging a cannon around in my inventory... no thats not it. Lets see, I have a cannon, so that means I'll be using a cannon. I am wielding a Whip, so logically I am going to be using melee also (as furthur evidenced by the piety being used and the potions). So the method must be I am using a cannon whilst also meleeing! Since each one of these guys only use one type of attack, and yet I am still taking damage, it must also be a multicombat zone! See how easy that is? Nothing short of obvious in my opinion.

 

 

 

Familiars weren't mentioned here, but I have said that many times before. If you don't know what I will use, then look back through my posts and you will find out.

 

 

 

Approx. 78k melee XP\h, not including 2.2 minute banking time, or an extra bank in the middle for an invo of rannars, meaning around 45 minutes per task and 19.5k slayer XP\h during testing. Informally, using aim, my rate drops to approx. 56k XP\h from distractions and waiting for one drop before attacking to reduce hassle.

 

Used this rate earlier in my post. I also don't care about your "informal" rates. They aren't relevant in my opinion.

 

 

 

In the context of this thread:

 

Sucks: Inferior to one or more other methods

 

Best: Superior to all other methods

 

[Most] Efficient: A method that results in the lowest possible overall time to complete a tasked based on money spent and overall XP gained.

 

So that would mean every single way to train combat throughout the entire game "sucks" except one? That is what you have inferred. Not to mention in the context of everything that has been posted, "sucks" is too subjective.

 

Not quite what I meant with best but that is my fault I guess. I meant as in how would determine what is best? What do you define as a superior method?

 

Using your definiton of efficient, then you are not "highly" efficient" when it comes to Slayer as you have inferred (as shown above).

 

 

 

Don't bother posting videos. Editing and cropping mean the results from them appear to be whatever the poster wants them to be. I could post a video of me hitting nothing but 45s with a whip on abyssal demons, but it doesn't really prove anything.

 

I don't skew my results like that. Nor am I going to bother editing or cropping them. I'll just posted exactly what is recorded, which ranges from me using about 10-30 seconds before I start attacking to when I stop the video after one of the NPCs is killed (not as in only one NPC total, but just when the test has gone on for a while I stop it when one of them dies). Every one so far has been within a few thousand experience of the average posted in the table, which as I have said, is more than acceptable. So yes I will post videos because they are relevant and shows an approximate rate that I attain. Although in 2 of them so far you will have to trust me as you can't count the number of kills easily. Those 2 are Aberrant Spectres, where I worked out how many I killed by using a Slayer gem and Dagannoths where my tasks was for 144 of them, I recorded the whole task.

[D Jay99]

Seriously. You are both arguing over something, using numbers that you supposedly posted 40 something pages back, without actually making a point. Let's make one post with all rates posted so far in it, now it's just a bunch of 'I did post my rates and they prove such and such!' and 'No you didn't, I disproved them a few pages later!'.

 

 

 

You need to realize you're not getting anywhere without rates on slayer xp, I suggest you start with either collecting reliable data, getting that data yourself or reposting it.

[ydrasil]

D Jay99, I posted a table of the summary of my results for the average experience rates as well as profit rates that I am getting for Slayer. At the moment compfreak847 seems to be thinking up any excuse he can to try invalidate them. Although the only things he has come up with so far is directly related to profit rather than the rate of experience. So the rate of experience is correct, and it far exceeds that of Armoured Zombies. Also don't get me wrong, I know more tests would provide more accurate results, but the rates are quite accurate and profit rates are reasonably accurate as evidenced by calculating it.

 

 

 

I have also suggested again recently (I did so ages ago also but to no avail) that the first post should be updated to include such things. It would allow for other people to read and also make informed posts as it is nothing short of foolish to expect them to read the entire thread (as compfreak847 refuses to argue over rates with someone who hasn't read it all, and as such leaves very few people who are "allowed" you could say).

 

 

 

Here is the table if you're interested:

 

[hide=Table][/hide]

[Obtaurian]

#2, I'm not saying that any of these are what makes it better or worse - I'm saying you have to consider them instead of going LULZ I DO TASKS IN 20 MINUTES AND U DO THEM IN 2 HOURS LOLZ HURR HURR UR AN IDIOT LEARN TO SLAY HURR HURR. Not that I'm referring to anyone in particular, of course.

 

 

 

 

How clever and witty of you. You can argue about whip hits and picking up drops all you want, but I'm still getting my tasks done in half the time, which means I'm either hacking the game or you're just a horribly inefficient slayer. I'm not terribly surprised anymore by your stupid arguments. Time yourself doing a spectres task your way, and then do it my way. You'll spend more time running around with mine and Ydrasil's method, but you'll cut your time in half. This is exactly like our combat familiars argument. You can argue about how you'll lose whip hits and blah blah blah all you want, but in the end, I'm still getting my tasks done faster than you.

[D Jay99]

D Jay99, I posted a table of the summary of my results for the average experience rates as well as profit rates that I am getting for Slayer. At the moment compfreak847 seems to be thinking up any excuse he can to try invalidate them. Although the only things he has come up with so far is directly related to profit rather than the rate of experience. So the rate of experience is correct, and it far exceeds that of Armoured Zombies. Also don't get me wrong, I know more tests would provide more accurate results, but the rates are quite accurate and profit rates are reasonably accurate as evidenced by calculating it.

 

 

 

I have also suggested again recently (I did so ages ago also but to no avail) that the first post should be updated to include such things. It would allow for other people to read and also make informed posts as it is nothing short of foolish to expect them to read the entire thread (as compfreak847 refuses to argue over rates with someone who hasn't read it all, and as such leaves very few people who are "allowed" you could say).

 

 

 

Here is the table if you're interested:

 

[hide=Table][/hide]

 

Ah. That was indeed what I meant, now I'm curious about compfreak's rates :P

[zalitz_miner]

May I suggest testing the methods this person uses in his video guides? (not saying the reported numbers are true). He's a "power slayer" based more on speed than efficiency I think (not saying all or any of the methods are inefficient)

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/iXiR3d3mpt1oniXi

[Deathmath]

Those rates seem unattainable, for somebody slaying 70 70 80 it is WAAY slower than zombies using the most efficient techniques.

 

 

 

At 138 I have no idea.

[Obtaurian]

Those rates seem unattainable, for somebody slaying 70 70 80 it is WAAY slower than zombies using the most efficient techniques.

 

 

 

At 138 I have no idea.

 

 

 

With slayer, it's not just equipment that matters. It's how you slay, how you pick up drops, moving as fast as possible to attain the best rates possible. At your level the tasks are fairly easy. You have to ask yourself if you're doing relaxed slayer like Compfreak, or efficient and fast slayer like Ydrasil and I.