mmmcannibalism Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I think America will get an atheist president eventually, probably we will see a slow trickling towards agnostics and non church goers as a lead up to it. Unless, the same think happens as with Obama, and a young great speaker runs. There is a general fading of religion in the US as far as I can tell. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nenga Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I don't think religious views should be forced on people by the government. If I do not want to believe in a god I don't think I should have to. Ponies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Most religion is a guideline, a guideline I totally agree with. When people read it literally is when we get problems. Fundamentalism and politics should be separated, not religion. Our morals come from our religion, from stories that influence us but should not control us. Star Wars influenced millions but did they took it literally? For the most part no; but some crazy goons did and they're the ones that should be checked. Religion is a great influence...and only that. "The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 While I agree that religion should not dominate politics, it has played a crucial role in many laws today which are seen to be just. Certainly politics can learn from religion, it just shouldn't be dominated by it. "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magekillr Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 While I agree that religion should not dominate politics, it has played a crucial role in many laws today which are seen to be just. Certainly politics can learn from religion, it just shouldn't be dominated by it. What can it learn from it with regard to politics? That we should ban biracial marriage because God separated people by land masses? That we should continuously ban gays from being married? That people will feud over land masses in the Middle East? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I think America will get an atheist president eventually, probably we will see a slow trickling towards agnostics and non church goers as a lead up to it. Unless, the same think happens as with Obama, and a young great speaker runs. There is a general fading of religion in the US as far as I can tell. That gave me a thought...a jedi president...? Can you say legalization of human cloning? :D "The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 While I agree that religion should not dominate politics, it has played a crucial role in many laws today which are seen to be just. Certainly politics can learn from religion, it just shouldn't be dominated by it. What can it learn from it with regard to politics? That we should ban biracial marriage because God separated people by land masses? That we should continuously ban gays from being married? That people will feud over land masses in the Middle East? Take a look back, 3000 years ago. There was no "law" against murder. If someone stole something from you, what did you do? You went and killed him, and took it back. Religion revolutionized law. Religion said "it is wrong to kill someone", and that is a moral society lives by to this day. Religion has also been fighting for basic human rights far longer then the UN has. "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 While I agree that religion should not dominate politics, it has played a crucial role in many laws today which are seen to be just. Certainly politics can learn from religion, it just shouldn't be dominated by it. What can it learn from it with regard to politics? That we should ban biracial marriage because God separated people by land masses? That we should continuously ban gays from being married? That people will feud over land masses in the Middle East? See, now you're growing specific. You can have tolerance while living a Bible-based moral life. And Y Guy never said anything about specifics. "The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War_Junky_91 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Ok, all you that say religion is not influencing modern day politics in America. Explain the gay marriage ban. There is no logical reason to ban gay marriage except for religion. And personally thats why i am against the gay marriage ban, its basicaly people forcing there religion on a minority group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I'd like religion to get the hell out of politics. Yes. Religion and politics don't mix, end of story. The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1_man_army Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Ok, all you that say religion is not influencing modern day politics in America. Explain the gay marriage ban. There is no logical reason to ban gay marriage except for religion. And personally thats why i am against the gay marriage ban, its basicaly people forcing there religion on a minority group. Nobody said that it wasn't effecting politics, people were saying that it shouldn't. He who learns must suffer, and, even in our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart,and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus (525 BC - 456 BC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War_Junky_91 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Ok, all you that say religion is not influencing modern day politics in America. Explain the gay marriage ban. There is no logical reason to ban gay marriage except for religion. And personally thats why i am against the gay marriage ban, its basicaly people forcing there religion on a minority group. Nobody said that it wasn't effecting politics, people were saying that it shouldn't. Eh, i just re-read previous posts, i read them fairly quickly earlier and got the feeling that people were implying that it wasn't affecting politics. My mistake, but my point still stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 So, does anyone really think religious beliefs (or personal beliefs) should be pushed upon a country/continent/etc if the president/etc is catholic/etc? Absolutely not. The president/PM is governing for the whole country, and that includes a lot of people who don't share their viewpoint on religious matters. This is one of the reasons why I think separation of church and state is a good thing - it means everyone can have their own beliefs without being force-fed those of whoever is in charge. As far as policy on controversial things like abortion goes, it should be based primarily on reason and any available evidence. I'm a big fan of pragmatism when it comes to political decisions. I distinctly remember an example where our Catholic former health minister sought to set up Church-based counseling for people thinking of getting an abortion. It's pretty obvious how objectivity is thrown out the window in cases such as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Ok, all you that say religion is not influencing modern day politics in America. Explain the gay marriage ban. There is no logical reason to ban gay marriage except for religion. And personally thats why i am against the gay marriage ban, its basicaly people forcing there religion on a minority group. Well, Im sure I could attempt an argument based off of the need for a standard family unit and such without citing religion at all, but I do agree the gay marriage ban is both illogical and purely religion based. Just wanted to point out there is a secular argument against it that could be used. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laucha Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Nothing is wrong with abortion imo if there's a good enough reason. Rape victims, medical complications, etc. But when people just keep having abortion because of fear of the consequences of the things they willfully acted on, then it becomes wrong. It depends in what point of view you are. For example rape victims, aborting the baby is not the best solution at all, she can give the baby in adoption if she isn't prepared or simply doesn't want to take a huge responsibility, especially if the baby is from some familiar, close friend or a totally stranger that she probably will never meet again. As for medical complications it could be a viable option considering the baby is not going to survive, live for a short time or is going to have serious complications. You are absolutely right about the last group of people. Ok, all you that say religion is not influencing modern day politics in America. Explain the gay marriage ban. There is no logical reason to ban gay marriage except for religion. And personally thats why i am against the gay marriage ban, its basicaly people forcing there religion on a minority group. True. Religion beliefs are the principal reason of the gay marriage ban, i don't see what's wrong with that, is their lives, if you want to marriage a person with the same genre you should do it, but unfortunately many people will look them down and discriminates all the homosexuality community, especially the religious ones as most of their ideology is if they don't agree with something it automatically is wrong, it's a shame that many people don't tolerate each other, if everyone respect and take in consideration your points of view and ideology the world would be a better place to live in. Just wanted to point my opinion in War's comment :D . I'd like religion to get the hell out of politics. Yes. Religion and politics don't mix, end of story. Well put :thumbup: . I was going to express the same just with different words . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nenga Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Ok, all you that say religion is not influencing modern day politics in America. Explain the gay marriage ban. There is no logical reason to ban gay marriage except for religion. And personally thats why i am against the gay marriage ban, its basicaly people forcing there religion on a minority group. Well, Im sure I could attempt an argument based off of the need for a standard family unit and such without citing religion at all, but I do agree the gay marriage ban is both illogical and purely religion based. Just wanted to point out there is a secular argument against it that could be used. Why do people need a standard family though? That is based off religion as well. Ponies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsavi Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Slightly off topic but I can't see an athiest President in America in my lifetime but if there is one, I wonder how they'd deal with the oath of office. and 2 years ago i didnt expect a black president anytime soon. its possible. ------- "i swear on the holy bible that i will be... blah blah blah... defend constitution... and not take over the world" "ok you are now president" "ok good. first order of business: taking over the world" "but you just swore you wouldnt!" "yea....on the BIBLE" Not all presidents were sworn in using a Bible. At least one used a book of law and another didn't use anything at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Why do people need a standard family though? That is based off religion as well. Do you mean having, like, four wives or something? Or marrying your daughters? Or is that just about gay marriage? catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1_man_army Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Slightly off topic but I can't see an athiest President in America in my lifetime but if there is one, I wonder how they'd deal with the oath of office. and 2 years ago i didnt expect a black president anytime soon. its possible. ------- "i swear on the holy bible that i will be... blah blah blah... defend constitution... and not take over the world" "ok you are now president" "ok good. first order of business: taking over the world" "but you just swore you wouldnt!" "yea....on the BIBLE" Not all presidents were sworn in using a Bible. At least one used a book of law and another didn't use anything at all. I don't know if that was true or not but I was thinking more about the mention of god in the oath itself. You know the "so help me god" bit although I just found out that that phrase isn't actually in the US constitution. He who learns must suffer, and, even in our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart,and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus (525 BC - 456 BC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Ok, all you that say religion is not influencing modern day politics in America. Explain the gay marriage ban. There is no logical reason to ban gay marriage except for religion. And personally thats why i am against the gay marriage ban, its basicaly people forcing there religion on a minority group. Well, Im sure I could attempt an argument based off of the need for a standard family unit and such without citing religion at all, but I do agree the gay marriage ban is both illogical and purely religion based. Just wanted to point out there is a secular argument against it that could be used. Why do people need a standard family though? That is based off religion as well. I dont believe in that argument I just wanted to point you could argue it from non religion, I do agree its always based on religion but felt someone needed to point it out. to above, yeah Im waiting for a president to not say so help me god, didnt that tradition start with washington though? Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War_Junky_91 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Ok, all you that say religion is not influencing modern day politics in America. Explain the gay marriage ban. There is no logical reason to ban gay marriage except for religion. And personally thats why i am against the gay marriage ban, its basicaly people forcing there religion on a minority group. Well, Im sure I could attempt an argument based off of the need for a standard family unit and such without citing religion at all, but I do agree the gay marriage ban is both illogical and purely religion based. Just wanted to point out there is a secular argument against it that could be used. Why do people need a standard family though? That is based off religion as well. I dont believe in that argument I just wanted to point you could argue it from non religion, I do agree its always based on religion but felt someone needed to point it out. to above, yeah Im waiting for a president to not say so help me god, didnt that tradition start with washington though? Yeah it did start with Washington, and i think most presidents since like the tenth one have said it just out of tradition more than anything else, its like saying "Bless you" when someone sneezes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1_man_army Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 According to Wikipedia, it was George Washington. It does claim that it is disputed though. He who learns must suffer, and, even in our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart,and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus (525 BC - 456 BC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 According to Wikipedia, it was George Washington. It does claim that it is disputed though. thanks for confirming that, I wonder how many years till someone decides not to say it lol. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nenga Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 According to Wikipedia, it was George Washington. It does claim that it is disputed though. thanks for confirming that, I wonder how many years till someone decides not to say it lol. When that happens maybe the country will start to get better. P.S. I can confirm it was indeed George Washington. Ponies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now