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F2P Mage and range underpowered


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#41
quelmotz
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Estorath said MAGEs suck and you agreed. contrasting yourself.



Mage maxes out way to early, we need higher spells.



Range is allrite now, at least we have addy arrows.



Melee is also allrite, at least in my opinion.


Good way to sum it up. Quite the opposite of the great proclamations made by a level 70 meleer with 60 mage and unranked range :roll:



#42
compfreak847
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Nope, estorath said mage maxes out too early, and higher spells are needed. I agree completely with that statement.



How would you have a clue, anyway? Your level 50 mage.
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Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29
GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots
Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

#43
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You guys realize if/when they updated f2p mage that then it would be superior and then peeps would complain about it being overpowered b/c 2 mages could take down anything regardless of what lvl they were... And then all the groups would pk mage and then someone would want another update for another class...



They've done a great job of balancing the different classes against each other... I think that range beats melee a bit more than it should sometimes and mage just doesn't have the defense in their robes to do too well against melee or range at higher levels... The only thing I think mage could use is a higher freeze spell than bind, snare would do wonders for mage in f2p pking.
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#44
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Jagex wouldn't be so stupid to update mage too much. Anyway, mage is so weak now that unless they gave it some kind of extremely overpowered spell or what it wouldn't become overpowered.

F2p mage is underpowered by far.



Balance is what i want, not overpowering of mage.



P.S. Compfreak, read this:

Another point against you. Making a lot of assumptions. And how do you know quelmotz is my main/highest lvled/most experienced account?



#45
compfreak847
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Because it's your forum name, with the stats of a main, and you have not produced evidence of any other account. Until you do so, I shall continue to assume that you are a very low level who has not experienced the majority of the game content. Creating higher level FTP mage spells would fix the problem, as I mentioned much earlier, and this should be in a "ftp deserves X" thread.
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Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29
GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots
Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

#46
quelmotz
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people would not see that in the thread and it is a thread for venting frustrations, not proper suggestions.

I can say my main is zezima for all i care. you cant confirm thats my main.

#47
compfreak847
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Nope, but it's pretty darn obvious when it matches up with 'main' stats and is your forum name. You can vent your frustrations; I can disagree with them.
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Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29
GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots
Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

#48
quelmotz
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I have another account but it was banned unfairly and i cant play it. I have this acc since the other one got banned a few years ago. So you're wrong. Quelmotz is my main now, but it wasn't my main last time.

#49
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If you've been on it a 'few years', and haven't provided the levels or name of your mystical 'previous' main, I can continue to assume you have had NO experience with high level PKing.
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Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29
GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots
Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

#50
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Giving f2p mages fire wave would mean the max hit would be 20, at 75 magic.



Assuming he has 50 hp, and 75 mage, as well as 43 prayer would give him. Level 54. Hitting maxes of 20, at level 54 combat.



This would be equivalent to someone with 110 melee stats, so assuming 40 attack, we have 70 str.



This would also be equivalent to a ranger with 75 range.



The person with 40 attack and 70 str, has a max hit of 24, with a rune 2 hander, which is roughly half the speed of magic.



With a rune longsword, which is about the same speed as magic, we have a max hit of 21, without the advantage of range, binding, cursing, and various other spells that come with 75 magic.



Rangers get a max hit of 14 at 75 range, discarding the added cursing spells, etc. But its slightly more rapid than mage, so it balances it out. Also, keep in mind that if the opponent is snared the mage out ranges the ranger with ease.



So maxing out mage would "roughly" balance out the triangle, if we add say 40 defense to this mix of hypothetical players, the meleer will miss alot on both the ranger and the mage. The mage will hit almost constantly to the meleer and ranger, dragonhide or not, as well as being able to far cast both classes with ease, and range would also hit fairly well on the 40 defense of the meleer.



Which... would unfortunately mean mage is the strongest f2p class. Until it maxes out.



Just an observation.
O.O

#51
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I don't have enough pvp experience to really comment a lot, but I guess I'll throw in a question. F2P Range/Mage are amazing at lower levels, and range definitely so in the mid levels. I remember seeing the sheer awesomeness of a 99 ranger just perhaps a level or two above me (I'm 71 combat, meh) tearing up people left and right. But what happens at the high ends? Like for the lv100+ characters? I generally chill with pvp acquaintances in fally, and anyone I see above lv100 is almost always melee. Since the range tank is designed to be below 100 combat, does it mean that in the end, melee wins at the highest levels of f2p?

#52
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Obviously, when you get into the very highest 110+ PKing levels range\maeg become seconadry (How many fights do you see where neither opponents have teleports?). However, most melee pures and PKers center around that -100 level, where they can fight into the mid crater and won't have to deal with maxed mains.
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Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29
GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots
Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

#53
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I don't have enough pvp experience to really comment a lot, but I guess I'll throw in a question. F2P Range/Mage are amazing at lower levels, and range definitely so in the mid levels. I remember seeing the sheer awesomeness of a 99 ranger just perhaps a level or two above me (I'm 71 combat, meh) tearing up people left and right. But what happens at the high ends? Like for the lv100+ characters? I generally chill with pvp acquaintances in fally, and anyone I see above lv100 is almost always melee. Since the range tank is designed to be below 100 combat, does it mean that in the end, melee wins at the highest levels of f2p?




Lets see if I can explain this -

The maximum a F2P ranger can hit is 18 on rapid.

The maximum a F2P melee can hit is 25 with a rune scimitar, a 32 with a rune 2h.

The maximum a F2P mage can hit is 16 with fire blast.



The scimitar and the fireblast of the mage hit with about the same frequency, the ranger hits 1.5 times faster than the others.



The reason a tank is overpowered is because it can max out everything, and not be combat level 126. Translation: A maxed f2p tank can deal the same amount of damage as a maxed f2p meleer in the same amount of time (assuming no armour), while still being ~20 combat levels lower.

The reason a f2p mage is underpowered is because it can never hit higher than 16. A f2p mage has a total slash defense of about 30, without damaging its mage abilities. ANY range, or melee will rip through that without pausing.

The mage class was designed so that it would hold the opponent at a distance while it got in free hits. This isn't the case - when farcasting in f2p, generally someone else will step in and pj (or even if the other person eats more than once). The other problem is that a f2p mage only has a 5 second bind. This means they can bind the opponent, get in 1 free hit before being attacked again. It doesn't even allowed you to run back a couple paces in that amount of time.



It seems that the standard to compare everything to is melee. If something hits a meleer with high accuracy and even decent damage, its overpowered. Which is why people say "In team situations, f2p mage is wayyyy overpowered." Oh, by the way, its supposed to be able to beat a pure meleer in a 1v1 situation, every time. People just don't get that, they think that all classes should be equal against all other classes, otherwise its overpowered.

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#54
compfreak847
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Why are you comparing level 60 mage to level 150 attack\strength? Compare the max of the 3 classes at level 60 - all FTP needs is a few higher spells.
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Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29
GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots
Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

#55
quelmotz
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interesting. all f2p needs is a few higher lvl spells??? what about armor???? hitting 20s while the opponent is obliterating you with 30s because of your weak armor??? A possible way of increasing the power and defence of mages will be to make all max damages increase by 2 per new spell, like air strike(max 2), water strike(max 4), etc. Air strike and co. remain the same. That will make the spells max damage be something like this:

Air bolt (9)

water bolt (10)

earth bolt (12)

fire bolt (14)

Air blast (16)

water blast (18)

earth blast (20)

fire blast (22)



important:the waves will go up in power too for members to balance things out.



I don't have enough pvp experience to really comment a lot, but I guess I'll throw in a question. F2P Range/Mage are amazing at lower levels, and range definitely so in the mid levels. I remember seeing the sheer awesomeness of a 99 ranger just perhaps a level or two above me (I'm 71 combat, meh) tearing up people left and right. But what happens at the high ends? Like for the lv100+ characters? I generally chill with pvp acquaintances in fally, and anyone I see above lv100 is almost always melee. Since the range tank is designed to be below 100 combat, does it mean that in the end, melee wins at the highest levels of f2p?




f2p range amazing at low levels?!?!? It sucks like hell before you get green dhide. unless you mean like 60-70 which isnt low. its lowish mid.

f2p range training from lvl 1-40 is one of the most boring and slow activities you can ever experience.(other than mining) After that, its still sort of boring but it gets better.

#56
compfreak847
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Mage is far more accurate then melee; hybridizing with range armor works very well. FTP range is STILL faster then melee from 1-40. Pray tell what about range makes it 'more boring' then melee, despite being FASTER? Range does very well at ANY level.
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Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29
GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots
Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

#57
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Why are you comparing level 60 mage to level 150 attack\strength? Compare the max of the 3 classes at level 60 - all FTP needs is a few higher spells.


Alright - If mage was able to hit 25 at its current speeds for lvl 99 in F2P, and have a bind for longer than 10 seconds, most everything would be solved.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

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Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

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#58
quelmotz
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Pray tell me why range training is faster when you have to keep picking up arrows and your max hit barely surpasses 5 before lvl 40(with iron arrows-which is cost effecient)??

Unless you are so rich that you can use addy arrows at lvl 30 ranged??



I thought the max hits over. It wont be really fair if mages hit 22s at lvl 59 mage so i decided on this.

I think mage shouldn't be restricted to a certain max hit, but all the spells will become more powerful as your mage lvl increases. I mean would a 99 hit 2s with a bronze dagger or a normal bow? no. even with punch he can hit 10s. (even i can hit 8s with my feet)

#59
pureprayer
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Pray tell me why range training is faster when you have to keep picking up arrows and your max hit barely surpasses 5 before lvl 40(with iron arrows-which is cost effecient)??

Unless you are so rich that you can use addy arrows at lvl 30 ranged??

Melee has to eat and it takes only a few seconds to pick up arrows...



Who said you cant use addy arrows at 30 range?

#60
compfreak847
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Pray tell me why range training is faster when you have to keep picking up arrows and your max hit barely surpasses 5 before lvl 40(with iron arrows-which is cost effecient)??

Unless you are so rich that you can use addy arrows at lvl 30 ranged??


Because melee has 2 skills, and arrows can be picked up with no delay. Perhaps if you had trained it to a decent level you would realize this.
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Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29
GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots
Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks




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