F2P Mage and range underpowered

[The_Maddest]

Irrelevant since fire blast hits far harder than a rune scimitar or adamant arrows at that level, even if you factor in the slower speed. Mage spells are longsword speed, one notch less than scimitar.

I made the point that it is possible to outeat the extremely rapid hits of range, so outeating magic is a piece of cake (not using cake of course :P )

 

 

 

This is a rant about how powerful mage is compared to range/melee, am I correct? The argument you use can apply to the other two combat styles. And, as compfreak pointed out, mage is the most powerful if you're a pure.

Nope, that isn't correct :S . The topic is "F2P Mage and range are underpowered". However compfreak seems to be the person posting on here most which is why you got that impression.

 

All I did was state that even if the magician gets their opponent to low hp, THEY HAVE NO KO, so the opponent just eats out of the tight spot. This is fairly easy, as stated above. This means that unless the magician leaves safe areas behind, they won't be getting any kills. This is unadvised because it is quite likely you'll run into a clan/higher levels that will destroy you.

 

 

 

Try getting some drop potential. I got a kill the first day PvP worlds came out, with ZERO drop potential, BEFORE the update that improved PvP loot, and the fight basically consisted of me five-hitting a one-itemer. The drops were worth at least 500gp.

I'm sorry, but no amount of drop potential is going to give you loot to cover costs from any number of fire blasts. Every mage pure I've spoken to, old wilderness and PvP, say that they needed to be subsidised by the main/spend most of their time money-making.

 

The simple fact is, that Compfreak doesn't seem to understand, that PKers at that level DO NOT raise attack and strength at the same time. This means at that level they will most likely have 20/30 attack. On my lv 40 range/2h pure, I have 56 ranged, 30 attack and 54-ish strength. At that level, only the lv 43-45+ use rune weaponry. Also, do not forget, the magician needs to be risking 25k to get loot, even if the person killed loses 10m.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, the other player is losing 50k+ with a RTH and scimmy. Drops are NO problem at all, especally considering that the meleer probably doesn't have the mage level to tele.

No. Read above -- PKers at that level don't use rune. Also, most PKers at that level are novices so they raise their mage to 25 just for the teleport ASAP.

[Sir_Kurity]

 

All I did was state that even if the magician gets their opponent to low hp, THEY HAVE NO KO, so the opponent just eats out of the tight spot.

 

 

 

Assuming everyone wants a rune weapon the "ko" of a fighter at the same level is actually less damage than the mages normal hit. So having no ko is not a problem when every hit they make has the power of a KO

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but no amount of drop potential is going to give you loot to cover costs from any number of fire blasts. Every mage pure I've spoken to, old wilderness and PvP, say that they needed to be subsidised by the main/spend most of their time money-making.

 

The simple fact is, that Compfreak doesn't seem to understand, that PKers at that level DO NOT raise attack and strength at the same time..

 

 

 

My mage got himself money, seriously, i got fairly decent pks, and i skilled as well. And a melee pure would need to get money from his main by your logic as well.

 

 

 

Also, pkers need a rune weapon, enough said, unless you want an addy weapon, and they seriously do suck.

 

 

 

Pkers, at level 40 use rune. Maybe you don't but a decent amount do, a great deal of pkers want a rune weapon before they get overly high strength levels.

 

 

 

If they instead do use addy as you stated, they have 58 strength, and do 15 damage with r2h, which is still less than mages normal hit.

[mageofpies]

hehe whoever said the ye olde scimmy hits 27 comment earlier was awesome : You should pay atention to compfreak - hes got the right idea,and's been right through most of this. You should all note that we arn't actually taking cost and whos got X amount of cash - we're talking effectiveness of the items not costs. E.G. Whoever keeps goin on about mage costing money, get a life. Mith and steel arrows are NOT expensive, just it sounds like some silly billys wish to train under 40 with them...which will do next to nothing for profits then. Fair enough after when they can make a valuable difference to your hits, but seriously - about 65gp a mith arrow? You can make money by skilling, pking (but by the look of this forum it looks like thats failed :D ), or slayer etc. There ARE ways of getting more than 500gp a kill you know, a little something they released along with PVP. What you do (this is a big secret you see (apparently) ), is you put up 75k for PTP, and (50k?) for FTP and what-[garden tool] you have dramatically increased chances of getting better drops! BTW how can you not break even when you get to that stage - just pick who you're gunna kill carefully - a cocky noob with addy (G) perhaps? or a noob with full rune and not a clue how to use it - the people you can SEE are forking up a stake, making the random drops better.

 

btw people should realise im still talking bout 40s or under - there's plenty of cocky skillers flaunting off their cash about.If we're talking slightly higher then what about sara armour, zammy and guthix? I say pfft in the general direction of whoever says you can't break even (well, you can if you play the game right).

[John Halo Chief]

i think mage is incredibly good, even in F2P. and btw, u say they have 1 staff? i scoff at u. range is underpowered, yes, but that's why there's P2P.

[John Halo Chief]

I'm sorry, but no amount of drop potential is going to give you loot to cover costs from any number of fire blasts. Every mage pure I've spoken to, old wilderness and PvP, say that they needed to be subsidised by the main/spend most of their time money-making.

 

The simple fact is, that Compfreak doesn't seem to understand, that PKers at that level DO NOT raise attack and strength at the same time..

 

 

 

see avatar. if u wc with 26k on u, ur drop potential raises rather quickly. u can get corrupt d, and i even got a d mace, R2H, and a rune scim in same drop. granted i wasnt maging,and i never would on F2P, but im pretty sure that would cover it now. ;)

[The_Maddest]

 

All I did was state that even if the magician gets their opponent to low hp, THEY HAVE NO KO, so the opponent just eats out of the tight spot.

 

 

 

Assuming everyone wants a rune weapon the "ko" of a fighter at the same level is actually less damage than the mages normal hit. So having no ko is not a problem when every hit they make has the power of a KO

"If the opponent is a mediocrely fast eater, he can out eat the mage. Remember, magic has very slow attacks - not like range where you find it very hard to eat through rapid 18s in a no armour fight. If the opponent knows the mage can hit 16, as soon as they get to 16hp, they will eat. Bear in mind, the mage will also have low hp and the opponents hits will be faster than your own."

 

Ready the replies before you before saying the same thing again?

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but no amount of drop potential is going to give you loot to cover costs from any number of fire blasts. Every mage pure I've spoken to, old wilderness and PvP, say that they needed to be subsidised by the main/spend most of their time money-making.

 

The simple fact is, that Compfreak doesn't seem to understand, that PKers at that level DO NOT raise attack and strength at the same time..

My mage got himself money, seriously, i got fairly decent pks, and i skilled as well. And a melee pure would need to get money from his main by your logic as well.

I'm guessing this is in the old wilderness? In PvP, to get access to a decent drop table you need:

 

a) Your opponent to die with 25k, which hardly ever happens

 

B) You need to have 25k risked, which NEVER happens.

 

In the tiny chance you do get a kill, the chance it will be worth about 30k, which pays for about 100 of your casts?

 

 

 

Also, pkers need a rune weapon, enough said, unless you want an addy weapon, and they seriously do suck.

 

Pkers, at level 40 use rune. Maybe you don't but a decent amount do, a great deal of pkers want a rune weapon before they get overly high strength levels.

 

At 35 combat? Nope.

 

 

 

If they instead do use addy as you stated, they have 58 strength, and do 15 damage with r2h, which is still less than mages normal hit.

Yes, but the meleer hits faster, and has more hp, putting up a good fight. Also, rangers have d'hide chaps and vambs which provide good defence against the magicians spells. These hit rapid 9s/10s, ripping through the mages crappy robes.

 

 

 

i think mage is incredibly good, even in F2P. and btw, u say they have 1 staff? i scoff at u. range is underpowered, yes, but that's why there's P2P.

Mage is the underpowered style. Ranged isn't underpowered at all -- you obviously haven't fought a lv99 ranger in a no armour fight.

 

 

 

see avatar. if u wc with 26k on u, ur drop potential raises rather quickly. u can get corrupt d, and i even got a d mace, R2H, and a rune scim in same drop. granted i wasnt maging,and i never would on F2P, but im pretty sure that would cover it now. ;)

 

Sorry pic doesn't work : . We're on about pure mages with low hp here. The last thing they want to be doing is wcing with 26k with them. If you read the replies, I said people don't risk 25k when fighting, not that I'm not getting enough drop potential :wall:

 

 

 

Sorry mageofpies, I don't want to quote a huge block of text. Most of what you say doesn't relate to -35cbt. And btw, I haven't seen many "cocky noobs with addy (g)" or a "noob with full rune and not a clue how to use it". I think by wearing the rune he's using it pretty well :P . May I add that if you kill someone with addy (g) you don't necessarily get the addy (g) he lost?

[Sir_Kurity]

"If the opponent is a mediocrely fast eater, he can out eat the mage. Remember, magic has very slow attacks - not like range where you find it very hard to eat through rapid 18s in a no armour fight. If the opponent knows the mage can hit 16, as soon as they get to 16hp, they will eat. Bear in mind, the mage will also have low hp and the opponents hits will be faster than your own."

 

Ready the replies before you before saying the same thing again?

 

 

 

Range can't hit rapid 18's at 59 magic, sorry we are talking about equivalent level to 59 magic, i don't deny magic needs wave spells, but as it is now, its very powerful for its level.

 

 

 

I'm guessing this is in the old wilderness? In PvP, to get access to a decent drop table you need:

 

a) Your opponent to die with 25k, which hardly ever happens

 

B) You need to have 25k risked, which NEVER happens.

 

In the tiny chance you do get a kill, the chance it will be worth about 30k, which pays for about 100 of your casts?

 

 

 

No, this is new, on my mage about 2 months back, most fighters used rune, most rangers used a decent amount of adamant arrows, and everyone risked over 25k.

 

 

 

And, i got corrupt dragon square drop, managed to get rune chain drop, and some other random rune items, actually almost all my actual kills got me decent drops.

 

 

 

Also, how would fighters fund them selfs either, sure they get a one time payment of 70k, oh wait, yea, thats until they die. And how would they get the money in the first place?

 

 

 

Quote:

 

If they instead do use addy as you stated, they have 58 strength, and do 15 damage with r2h, which is still less than mages normal hit.

 

Yes, but the meleer hits faster, and has more hp, putting up a good fight. Also, rangers have d'hide chaps and vambs which provide good defence against the magicians spells. These hit rapid 9s/10s, ripping through the mages crappy robes.

 

 

 

Meleer dosent hit faster with a rune 2h, its scimitar hit is something around 12-13, sure it puts up a "good" fight, but we all know whos going to win.

 

 

 

The ranger hits rapid 9's 10's, ok, they might win, but thats the combat triangle for you. Infact tell you what, do you have a ranger/warrior thats equivalent to 59 mage? I'm going to be making another f2p mage pure again, and i would like to verse you, and see who wins.

[quelmotz]

Saying meleers lose like 70k if they die is the same as mages losing about 175 casts of fire blast, which is what they will bring if they're going to pk for at least a while.

 

 

 

Really, can you actually "break even" in f2p pking without being lucky? You probably will get attacked by some 1 item pjers before you can get a decent kill, and even if you get a kill, the drops are usually crap.

 

"Get your drop potential up!"

 

So, if you're unlucky and get attacked by a noob 1 itemer, and you fight back, you waste your drop potential. What if you're unlucky and get a crap drop. Wasted. Get piled by a person like 10 levels higher than you and run into the bank. Wasted. Accidentally attacked a noob. Wasted.

 

 

 

Really, mages hit constant 16s at 59 mage using fire blast? Interesting. Learn about MAX hits and AVERAGE hits. You can say that for melee but you're contradicting yourself for mage?

[Sir_Kurity]

Saying meleers lose like 70k if they die is the same as mages losing about 175 casts of fire blast, which is what they will bring if they're going to pk for at least a while.

 

 

 

And?

 

 

Really, can you actually "break even" in f2p pking without being lucky?

 

 

This goes for both fighters and mages.

 

 

 

Really, mages hit constant 16s at 59 mage using fire blast? Interesting. Learn about MAX hits and AVERAGE hits. You can say that for melee but you're contradicting yourself for mage?

 

 

 

I never said constant 16's , i just said the max hit is higher, and its more accurate.

[EGmaestro]

Range > Melee in FTP, don't know what on earth you are talking about.

 

 

 

A couple weeks ago, I was pking F2P with range. I was 87 combat with 85 range (which isn't too bad). Eventually, a lvl 84 decides to fight me. He had 63 defence, and <75 str and attack stats.

 

 

 

He ran me out of food before half his inventory was gone. :wall:

 

 

 

I mean, this guy was the average main... And the fact that it was 85 range Vs 63 def is just messed up.

 

 

 

im gonna take an edumacated guess as to why you got owned by a weak lvl 84..*drum roll* strength pots!!!!! its the only reason i can think of..seeing as there are no pots 4 range or mage for that matter (mind bombs wtf? :roll: )

[quelmotz]

Saying meleers lose like 70k if they die is the same as mages losing about 175 casts of fire blast, which is what they will bring if they're going to pk for at least a while.

 

 

 

And? WHICH IS WORTH 70K

 

 

Really, can you actually "break even" in f2p pking without being lucky?

 

 

This goes for both fighters and mages. MELEE ARMOR & WEPS are a one time buy whereas mage's stuff have to be constantly replaced (who uses those 2mil+ armor that degrades so fast anyway?)

 

 

 

Really, mages hit constant 16s at 59 mage using fire blast? Interesting. Learn about MAX hits and AVERAGE hits. You can say that for melee but you're contradicting yourself for mage?

 

 

 

I never said constant 16's , i just said the max hit is higher, and its more accurate.

 

So? Their armor is crap and they're going to die to pjers. Hitting high and accurate won't help you in fighting a full health potted+probably higher level pjer when your hp is low and unpotted and in melee range.

 

[Sir_Kurity]

WHICH IS WORTH 70K

 

 

 

So... Meleers risk money to.

 

 

 

MELEE ARMOR & WEPS are a one time buy whereas mage's stuff have to be constantly replaced (who uses those 2mil+ armor that degrades so fast anyway?)

 

 

 

In PVP you have a chance to lose items anyway as a meleer, so its not to bad, and using corrupt dragon baxe is actually semi effective, though that dosent really matter.

 

 

 

So? Their armor is crap and they're going to die to pjers. Hitting high and accurate won't help you in fighting a full health potted+probably higher level pjer when your hp is low and unpotted and in melee range.

 

 

 

No, they are not going to die to pjers, its f2p, unless your an idiotic safer, you won't die. Eat once your twice and your "meleer" who by the way has a lower max hit than you even with a r2h, will be losing the fight.

[LatinII]

I've been to Clan Wars today, wearing full Druidic (higher % to bind), a staff of fire, an amulet of magic (t), and my Explorer's ring, so I could have the highest magic attack bonus a F2P mage can have (+39).

 

 

 

First thing I've learned is that, do not stand near those walls that go down when the countdown timer drops down to 0, otherwise you'll immediatelly get piled by everbody. In stead, I stayed a bith south of that, and waited a while so people wouldn't notice me. After about 20 seconds after the fight started, I'd carefully go to the center to join the fight. I always pick somebody that is already being piled by somebody else. If that person is in rune armour, I use Curse on them (to weaken their defence for the other people that attack him aswell). Then I Fire Blast away. After 2/3 spells or so, the melee-er will start to notice you, and they usually go after you. Always make you sure there's a safespot between you and the melee-er. Bind him, run to another safespot to get him stuck, and Bind him again. He'll keep trying to go after you, even though he's already being piled by alot of people from the clan I'm in.

 

 

 

But from my experience, Fire Blast is a very inaccurate spell. I splash quite often on people wearing melee armour, and when I do hit them it's usually between 4-11. I don't see a 16 very often.

 

 

 

I'm talking about people that have a 90/100+ combat. At lower levels mages do own because they max out earlier, and their damage output is like the double of what rangers/melee-ers can hit.

[compfreak847]

Why are you comparing a level 35 mage to meleers with 100+ combat? Mage is losing at that level? No, really! Let's pit a maxed range tank against a 59 range, 1 defence pure and see who comes out on top. People seem to have a hard time with combat levels.

[The_Maddest]

and using corrupt dragon baxe is actually semi effective, though that dosent really matter.

 

I beg to differ. Especially at your combat level.

[quelmotz]

WHICH IS WORTH 70K

 

 

 

So... Meleers risk money to.

 

 

 

MELEE ARMOR & WEPS are a one time buy whereas mage's stuff have to be constantly replaced (who uses those 2mil+ armor that degrades so fast anyway?)

 

 

 

In PVP you have a chance to lose items anyway as a meleer, so its not to bad, and using corrupt dragon baxe is actually semi effective, though that dosent really matter.

 

 

 

So? Their armor is crap and they're going to die to pjers. Hitting high and accurate won't help you in fighting a full health potted+probably higher level pjer when your hp is low and unpotted and in melee range.

 

 

 

No, they are not going to die to pjers, its f2p, unless your an idiotic safer, you won't die. Eat once your twice and your "meleer" who by the way has a lower max hit than you even with a r2h, will be losing the fight.

 

 

 

So? Meleers risk losing a few prayer points to protect an extremely valuable item whereas mages risk a few prayer points to protect ---What?!?!? 1 rune?!?!?!!? Or some crappy robes?!?!?!

 

 

 

You're just lucky you didn't get pjed. Even meleers get pjed. When I was pking in melee, I killed a noob with like 10 hp left and no food. I was running to the bank and then--Bam! Free trip to lumbridge. Don't assume that people are always walking around with like 40+hp. Especially after a long fight. What makes it worse is mages have crap armor that meleers' ye olde scimitar RIPS through.

[Sir_Kurity]

My offers still standing. Duel me with a meleer equivalent to a level 59 mage.

 

 

 

Then, we will see who wins. Your thread title states mage is underpowered, this has nothing to do with the negligible price.

[LatinII]

My offers still standing. Duel me with a meleer equivalent to a level 59 mage.

 

 

 

Then, we will see who wins. Your thread title states mage is underpowered, this has nothing to do with the negligible price.

 

 

 

Dutch_Please his combat is 68. I would like to test.

[compfreak847]

68 vs. a level 35 mage? Lol, your twice his combat level. Pit a 63 against a 126 and see what the results are :roll:

[Sir_Kurity]

Sir kurity will have 59 magic within the week (if im lucky) I will tell everyone here his combat and i will duel any meleer within 3 levels of me.

 

 

 

Lets say no prayer, to try and be on as even ground as possible.

[LatinII]

68 vs. a level 35 mage? Lol, your twice his combat level. Pit a 63 against a 126 and see what the results are :roll:

 

 

 

Oh, I didn't know he was level 35.

 

 

 

"Duel me with a meleer equivalent to a level 59 mage."

 

 

 

I thought his combat was 59, instead of his mage level.

 

 

 

Sir kurity will have 59 magic within the week (if im lucky) I will tell everyone here his combat and i will duel any meleer within 3 levels of me.

 

 

 

Lets say no prayer, to try and be on as even ground as possible.

 

 

 

I'm exited to see the results. :)

[compfreak847]

Nope, 59 combat would put him closer to 80-90 mage, where he'd be barraging in members :P

[Sir_Kurity]

Sorry, i didn't word myself correctly did i.

 

 

 

Well, now thats cleared up.

 

 

 

(Edit: Make that 2-3 weeks, im having a little trouble with the crafting, of the runes, and the 50 runecrafting need those robes...)

[quelmotz]

The price is part of maging. Who would use a spell doing 99 damage if it costs 999 999 999 999 999gp? No one. Don't be dumb. Price is part of the equation.

[Sir_Kurity]

Not when the price isnt even THAT much more than melee. Especially in PVP situations.